Why I'm Cancelling My Sub

@Bonoki
You entered this thread saying your ok with people providing feedback. Saying you're quitting due to the viper changes is feedback.
Then you say op should have said it's a job simplification issue. As stated before, viper is a job.
Now you say the jobs are the same as in EW so why not just go back to a previous job? That's part of the complaint here.

It really doesn't sound like you're ok with feedback unless it's one you agree with.

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Originally Posted by Thurmnmurmn

@Bonoki
You entered this thread saying your ok with people providing feedback. Saying you're quitting due to the viper changes is feedback.
Then you say op should have said it's a job simplification issue. As stated before, viper is a job.
Now you say the jobs are the same as in EW so why not just go back to a previous job? That's part of the complaint here.

It really doesn't sound like you're ok with feedback unless it's one you agree with.

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You're twisting everything I said. And I mean twisting, "Everything". lol

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Originally Posted by koko-on-da-forumz

That's not an insult? I'm saying you're looking at things without context.

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I have context. I have played this game since ARR. I know every variation of every job. You were the one misinterpreting what I said.


I said what I said, I don't think "I quit 'cause Viper" is valid, and you do. I think we should just drop it at agree to disagree here.

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Originally Posted by Bonoki

I said we knew changes were coming. I didn't say we knew what changes were happening.

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Lying again. Your words, I quote: "knew these changes were coming". We did not know these changes were coming.

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Originally Posted by Bonoki

To reiterate, I’m not saying people aren’t allowed to be unhappy. Feedback is great. However, claiming you quit because of Viper is an argument I just can’t take seriously.

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Fortunately no one giving feedback cares what feelings you think people are or aren't allowed to have, let alone what you take seriously.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Fortunately no one giving feedback cares what feelings you think people are or aren't allowed to have, let alone what you take seriously.

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Oh, look more passive-aggressive behavior. I didn't realize having an unpopular opinion warranted being treated this way.
Fortunately, this is the forum where I don't have to care that you think that way, so I'll keep posting.

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Originally Posted by Bonoki

You're twisting everything I said. And I mean twisting, "Everything". lol



I have context. I have played this game since ARR. I know every variation of every job. You were the one misinterpreting what I said.


I said what I said, I don't think "I quit 'cause Viper" is valid, and you do. I think we should just drop it at agree to disagree here.

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You say I'm twisting everything yet you finish your post with literally what I said XD
You're all for feedback unless you don't agree with it.

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Originally Posted by Bonoki

Oh, look more passive-aggressive behavior. I didn't realize having an unpopular opinion warranted being treated this way.
Fortunately, this is the forum where I don't have to care that you think that way, so I'll keep posting.

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You just can't help yourself can you....Talking about passive agressive....pot calling kettle. Agree to disagree and move on. There must be more topics that are in need of replies and comments. Find one, that suits you.

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Originally Posted by Antharaes

You just can't help yourself can you....Talking about passive agressive....pot calling kettle. Agree to disagree and move on. There must be more topics that are in need of replies and comments. Find one, that suits you.

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Yet I'm the one being ganged up against here because you three posters can't agree to disagree with me. "Go find another topic" lmfao. I'm only posting cause you all keep replying to me. You won't change my opinion and I won't change yours. The Viper changes are fine in my opinion and I'm ending it there. Your feedback is no more important than my own as far as SE cares.

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Originally Posted by Bonoki

Yet I'm the one being ganged up against here because you three posters can't agree to disagree with me. "Go find another topic" lmfao. I'm only posting cause you all keep replying to me. You won't change my opinion and I won't change yours. The Viper changes are fine in my opinion and I'm ending it there. Your feedback is no more important than my own as far as SE cares.

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Ofcourse, it's us...have a nice day !

*inserts obligatory "Can I have your gil?" here*

Good luck on your future endeavors OP, I hope they bring you happiness and success. o7

Man, good thing you let us know. What if we'd logged in tomorrow and you weren't there!

I do find it weird tho....we want jobs to be amazing but this whole thing of jobs having they own identity is seeming more an more like a pipe dream. I dont think I can get over the fact that healing all feels the same with some minor change. Some times it feels like some classes are more so blending in. If op is feeling like that with viper changes im not even mad they wanna quit.

The viper changes were so dramatic and awful that it still remains the most played dps and 2nd most played job (after warrior) in savage.

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Originally Posted by Purrnauskis

The viper changes were so dramatic and awful that it still remains the most played dps and 2nd most played job (after warrior) in savage.

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There is like 95% of the playerbase that couldn't care less about Savage. If something parses well it will be played in high-end content regardless of how fun or interesting it is.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

There is like 95% of the playerbase that couldn't care less about Savage. If something parses well it will be played in high-end content regardless of how fun or interesting it is.

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U mean 95% in NA that historically love to moan about things while not interacting with half the content in the game. IIRC EW JP savvy clears were around 20%.

I'm sure that "skill expression" comes into play with Viper when u can clear anything below EX by smashing buttons in random order.

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Originally Posted by Purrnauskis

U mean 95% in NA that historically love to moan about things while not interacting with half the content in the game. IIRC EW JP savvy clears were around 20%.

I'm sure that "skill expression" comes into play with Viper when u can clear anything below EX by smashing buttons in random order.

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Savage raids don't come close to 50% of this game's content.

I feel you OP. I am a legacy. I have been here since 1.0 and have stuck with this game through thick and thin on multiple characters. And for the first time in 14 years, I cancelled my sub yesterday after getting the notice that I was about to be billed again. It's just become painfully mediocre. The devs don't really act like they care. A lot of the work is just sloppy. The new writers and locatlization team are next level bad at their jobs. Combat is too simple. As someone who is both a smn and healer main, I feel completely disrespected and have no belief that the battle rework is going to be done in a well thought out or interesting way. And nothing I do feels worthwhile. I just can't keep fooling myself thinking, "they will fix this/make it better/do better in the next expac, I know it!" anymore.

Also as a HUGE ffxi fan who practically lived in Vana'diel nearly a decade before this game was even a thing, I am not going to stay just to watch the way they are going to poo all over my most beloved FF world, like they did Zodiarc, Hydaelyn, the Twelve and now all of Tural. I just can't stand here and watch this slow motion train wreck anymore.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

Savage raids don't come close to 50% of this game's content.

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At what point did I say savage was 50%.

Don't be surprised if nobody of significance takes your petty "feedback" about Viper seriously. I'm not a fan of the changes myself but unsubscribing over them? Clown behaviour.

You said "half the content in the game" - which I'm assuming you mean Ex/Savage/Ultimate given it's the only content remotely relevant to your original point. Anyway this conversation is pointless at this point, I already made my primary point -

1. High parsing jobs will be played in end-game raids regardless of class design;
2. A small % of the playerbase engages with end-game raids, certainly far less than normal content. Even if we used your very generous 20% for one country/not taking into account paid clears, the vast majority of paying customers simply don't care about this.

It's clown behavior to not pay for a game you're not having fun with?

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Originally Posted by gllt

It's clown behavior to not pay for a game you're not having fun with?

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No, go back and actually read what I said properly. What is it with people on these forums either wilfully misunderstanding or failing to understand others' posts? This is why the average IQ here is probably room temperature level.

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Originally Posted by BrokenFantasy

No, go back and actually read what I said properly. What is it with people on these forums either wilfully misunderstanding or failing to understand others' posts? This is why the average IQ here is probably room temperature level.

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Nothing you wrote was difficult to understand. You thought it is "clown behavior" to unsub over the Viper changes.

If you read OP this was the last straw, and OP had already experienced the devs making strange decisions about various classes using BLM as an example. At some point, when a player has the enjoyment stripped from their jobs - they just don't feel like constantly looking for a new enjoyable job since it will probably just be changed and made boring in the future anyway. Their immediately changing Viper made them question their willingness to look forward to job changes in the future.

OP believes that there are cries for simplification that are just heeded to by the devs too easily.

7.0/7.01 VPR enjoyers aside, you can also ask healers and long-time summoners and they'd probably agree in general.

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Originally Posted by gllt

It's clown behavior to not pay for a game you're not having fun with?

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No, go back and actually read what I said properly. What is it with people on these forums either wilfully misunderstanding or failing to understand others' posts? This is why the average IQ here is probably room temperature level.

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Originally Posted by BrokenFantasy

No, go back and actually read what I said properly. What is it with people on these forums either wilfully misunderstanding or failing to understand others' posts? This is why the average IQ here is probably room temperature level.

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I just think your behavior is much more clown like. You don't own the forums. Just don't post in threads you don't like, they'll get buried faster that way. I assume you're just jealous that someone else is getting attention.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

Nothing you wrote was difficult to understand. You thought it is "clown behavior" to unsub over the Viper changes.

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See, unsubbing over a change to the one job you find fun in a game is one thing. You're not forced to play this, it's not your RL job. Sometimes a break is healthy.
Making a pompous public service announcement, though, is akin to a toddler throwing themselves to the ground in a mall, kicking and screaming, because mom won't buy them the thing they want.

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Originally Posted by FuwafuwaMii

Making a pompous public service announcement, though, is akin to a toddler throwing themselves to the ground in a mall, kicking and screaming, because mom won't buy them the thing they want.

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It's not targeted just for you or the public, sweetie. The General Discussion forum is where the devs want players to post feedback about the game. There is no better place to give feedback about why someone is unsubbing.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

It's not targeted just for you or the public, sweetie. The General Discussion forum is where the devs want players to post feedback about the game. There is no better place to give feedback about why someone is unsubbing.

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Why did you call her sweetie?

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Originally Posted by gllt

I just think your behavior is much more clown like. You don't own the forums. Just don't post in threads you don't like, they'll get buried faster that way. I assume you're just jealous that someone else is getting attention.

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Never said I did, and same goes for you. Your opinion of my behavior is IRRELEVANT and stupid when YOU were the one failing to understand my post. So feel free to GTFO and don't let the door hit you on the way out.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

Nothing you wrote was difficult to understand. You thought it is "clown behavior" to unsub over the Viper changes.

If you read OP this was the last straw, and OP had already experienced the devs making strange decisions about various classes using BLM as an example. At some point, when a player has the enjoyment stripped from their jobs - they just don't feel like constantly looking for a new enjoyable job since it will probably just be changed and made boring in the future anyway. Their immediately changing Viper made them question their willingness to look forward to job changes in the future.

OP believes that there are cries for simplification that are just heeded to by the devs too easily.

7.0/7.01 VPR enjoyers aside, you can also ask healers and long-time summoners and they'd probably agree in general.

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I did read the OP smart Alec, (who btw I wasn't originally addressing but I'll let it slide). I stand by my assertion re leaving over Viper changes being petty. I never stated it was their only reason. It shouldn't even be given as a reason. There are +/- 20 other jobs to choose from in this game. And the spouting of vague nonsense about "politics" is also clown behaviour.

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Originally Posted by BrokenFantasy

I did read the OP smart Alec, (who btw I wasn't originally addressing but I'll let it slide). I stand by my assertion re leaving over Viper changes being petty. I never stated it was their only reason. It shouldn't even be given as a reason. There are +/- 20 other jobs to choose from in this game. And the spouting of vague nonsense about "politics" is also clown behaviour.

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Care to share who your quoteless response was addressing, if not the OP? Who else in this thread was cancelling because of the Viper changes and only the Viper changes?

I didn't notice anyone else state this, but i don't feel like rereading the entire thread. Since it was your comment, you should easily be able to point this out.

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Originally Posted by BrokenFantasy

I did read the OP smart Alec, (who btw I wasn't originally addressing but I'll let it slide). I stand by my assertion re leaving over Viper changes being petty. I never stated it was their only reason. It shouldn't even be given as a reason. There are +/- 20 other jobs to choose from in this game. And the spouting of vague nonsense about "politics" is also clown behaviour.

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I was addressing gllt, the person who originally misunderstood my post. For some f-ing reason these forums don't immediately show one's posts and so I mistakenly double posted, and in the process failed to quote them somehow? I don't know.

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Originally Posted by BrokenFantasy

I was addressing gllt, the person who originally misunderstood my post. For some f-ing reason these forums don't immediately show one's posts and so I mistakenly double posted, and in the process failed to quote them somehow? I don't know.

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I'm assuming you meant to reply to me, and not yourself.

What you originally wrote is this:

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Originally Posted by BrokenFantasy

Don't be surprised if nobody of significance takes your petty "feedback" about Viper seriously. I'm not a fan of the changes myself but unsubscribing over them? Clown behaviour.

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That is what gilt replied to, and what I was referencing. It's where you wrote "Clown Behavior" that I pointed out in my response, for reference.

I am asking who that comment was directed at, if not the OP.

Just to further explain, this is the quote you claimed gllt didn't understand.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

I'm assuming you meant to reply to me, and not yourself. I know you are so much smarter than everyone here, but this is just my small IQ educated guess.

What you originally wrote is this:



That is what gilt replied to, and what I was referencing. It's where you wrote "Clown Behavior" that I pointed out in my response, for reference.

I am asking who that comment was directed at, if not the OP.

Just to further explain, this is the quote you claimed gllt didn't understand.

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It was directed at the OP.

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Originally Posted by BrokenFantasy

It was directed at the OP.

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Well, now that we spent an entire page about nothing but perhaps my own amusement, I disagree that job design and changes are a "petty" reason to unsub. Job fantasy and enjoyment is very important to MMO players. If your favorite jobs become unfun, you feel less eager to keep playing.

If it gets to the point where you job hopped, and it feels like the "boring bat" keeps following your preferred jobs to beat any complexity into the ground, I can see just giving up out of frustration and lack of enjoyment.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

Well, now that we spent an entire page about nothing but perhaps my own amusement, I disagree that job design and changes are a "petty" reason to unsub. Job fantasy and enjoyment is very important to MMO players. If your favorite jobs become unfun, you feel less eager to keep playing.

If it gets to the point where you job hopped, and it feels like the "boring bat" keeps following your preferred jobs to beat any complexity into the ground, I can see just giving up out of frustration and lack of enjoyment.

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They aren't important to ALL MMO players. And let's not forget that the changes ended up being incredibly minor. I returned to VPR after patch 7.05 and barely noticed any difference in how it feels. Granted, the changes to the skill names are dumb. At the end of the day, this game has a wide variety of combat and non-combat content, and if someone has such bad tunnel vision that they let relatively small changes to their pet job affect their ability to enjoy the game as a whole, that's more their problem than anything else.

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Originally Posted by BrokenFantasy

They aren't important to ALL MMO players. And let's not forget that the changes ended up being incredibly minor. I returned to VPR after patch 7.05 and barely noticed any difference in how it feels. Granted, the changes to the skill names are dumb. At the end of the day, this game has a wide variety of combat and non-combat content, and if someone has such bad tunnel vision that they let relatively small changes to their pet job affect their ability to enjoy the game as a whole, that's more their problem than anything else.

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To me they were very noticable.

1. Fantasy-wise, they removed my venom as a snake-themed class.
2. The job essentially had three things to do.
a. Apply and manage the debuff, which
(i). Provided some mental engagement to engage with skill selection to avoid overcapping, but also ensuring you had enough time for your burst.
b. Look for glowy icons and press them.
c. Position correctly.

Now we lost the aspect that required the most thought and planning, since positions just mindlessly rotate. Most of the time you don't even have that many things to press, with your filler rotating between two buttons and then having a finisher, with the occasional enjoyment of a few different glowy buttons to press but more quickly.

If you are a longer term player who already got shoved away from other jobs that experienced some controversial changes (Summoner, Monk, Samurai, Bard, and others over the years I've seen people have concerns with), this may just be a "last straw." So, it's probably not just about Viper, a job we had for a month. But the culmination of years of design choices.

Man the ff14 forums are wholesome ;)

fight fight fight

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Originally Posted by Reinha

It's not targeted just for you or the public, sweetie. The General Discussion forum is where the devs want players to post feedback about the game. There is no better place to give feedback about why someone is unsubbing.

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1) I'm not your sweetie.
2) You throw a tantrum in a public space, you get called out.

It'll only be the last straw and my unsub if the Squenix team and Creative Studio III releases a joke of a job in the upcoming limited job of Beast Master because someone lodged a gigatender in their head and wanted to make the job "original" instead of just making it the replacement pet job; regardless of the jank that old summoner had when it was the old pet class before EW.

If they make Beast Master anything but a pet oriented job, then all it shows to not only myself but others as well that they are completely and utterly incompetent and incapable of having and managing some kind of pet system.