Mastercrafts Consumables Pls Nerf

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Originally Posted by Rehayem

OP wants everything to be handed to them on a silver platter :rolleyes:

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Correction: OP wants to raid and not touch crafting because it's boring as hell, just as many want to craft and never raid because it's not their thing :)

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Originally Posted by Rinalas

Correction: OP wants to raid and not touch crafting because it's boring as hell, just as many want to craft and never raid because it's not their thing :)

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Yeah, and like I said earlier, it's a "you" problem lol. Either learn how to make gil to buy stuff off of MB or stick your hands into crafting. The world doesn't revolve around you and your petty needs and wants.

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Originally Posted by Rinalas

But then when you all get your way and many of us have left, who will you sell to then?

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Firstly, I've already been getting my way since ARR. Somehow the game kept getting more players every year despite the tedium of crafting. You vastly overestimate your value as a player.

Secondly, I dunno how to tell you this but I'll manage to survive if this game shuts down entirely. I legitimately don't care if they shut down due to this issue. I'm not a stockholder.

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Originally Posted by Rinalas

Well with extremes, criterion and ultis, it's more like 7 fights per six months. And maybe you're right that they shouldn't change it. That's a choice for Square to make and which groups they prefer to alienate, if the sub of those who only enjoy the end-game aspect of their content is worth trying to change their game for. And yeah you are with the majority as we can see a lot of us have already left. The casual base has already done a lot of damage to the content I do enjoy and probably will continue to do so. This is likely me fruitlessly yelling into the uncaring casual void.
But then when you all get your way and many of us have left, who will you sell to then? A solution will need to be made, regardless. I notice at least on my data center that raid gear has already dropped in price a lot faster from savage launch than it used to. Funny, that.

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So then you have your money maker Faux Leaves sell the mounts and minions on the marketboard. So no need to touch crafting :P Not touched this market so have no clue if it's any good but what about the barding mats from Extremes?

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Originally Posted by gllt

I mean if you just want Square to give you fun ways to make gil, I'm all for that. Then you can do something to pay for your gear.

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This I wouldn't be opposed to I don't know why we cant get more rare mats from dungeons, raids, trials, savage etc.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

If truly the only content you enjoy is endgame raiding yet the cost of consumables is a barrier to your enjoyment then I think your group is extremely niche, you can make money from battle content as well if you don’t like crafting, field content is a endless font of money if you engage with it, daily roulettes give you almost 200k a day if you run on AIN jobs, deep dungeons give almost as much money as field content, treasure maps are incredibly lucrative

There is combat options to make money, if the only thing holding you to the game is literally savage and nothing else I think you just need to eat the cost of consumables as the functioning of the crafting market affects way more people

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I'm completely open to being proven differently on this but calculating the gil return on AIN bonus on my server is around 45k if I run every single one including the dreaded MSQ? I don't think different data centers have different flat-gil differences anymore?

The main reason roulettes or maps do not appeal to me is they are the usual "press 3 buttons and fall asleep while watching Youtube" kind of thing. If treasure Dungeons got criterion level difficulty, sign me up right now. Deep dungeons solo I am absolutely here for if not for the potsherd grind, really. Needing around 200 sustaining potions per floor 200 attempt takes a lot of wind out of those sails.

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Originally Posted by Rinalas

Correction: OP wants to raid and not touch crafting because it's boring as hell, just as many want to craft and never raid because it's not their thing :)

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Ergo : OP SHOULD do battle content like
~Fates(bicolor mats)
~Daily AIN Roulettes + bonuses (200k+)
>>There's also desynthing and selling the mats you get ie White Gold Ingot sells for 3-4kish on elemental and primarily obtain from desynthing Origenics and Epochal Accessories.
>>Using poetics to purchase old gear for seal turn ins
>>Turning in blue/green gear from dungeon for GC seals then buying glam prisms/coke with said seals to sell in MB.
~Daily Hunts(15k+/set),
~Eureka/Bunny fates
~Bozja Fragments
~Treasure maps
~Joining mount buying PF parties (1m-2m+)

Lots of battle content stuff that earns you money without having to touch crafting.

As a bonus, you can buy NPC sold mats and resell themm in marketboard for a markup, you'd be surprised how much crafters would eat a markup out of convenience rather than porting and walking towards a certain npc.

I mean if you just want Square to give you fun ways to make gil, I'm all for that. Then you can do something to pay for your gear.

Ah. Another person that is sick of part (or all) of the game, and instead of...not playing it...demands it be changed and/or removed to cater to them.

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Originally Posted by Plumerian_Ariadust

Even just doing the weekly custom deliveries would have given OP materia to meld or sell, and it takes less than 10mins per week.

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Sure, if I stay subbed to the game for all eternity. Why would I pay $30 a month on the times when I've already recleared the raid for a couple of months straight just to do crafter weekly? And I'm definitely not able to save up what I get from that for a long time at the start of the expansion because of the books and gear (about 1.5 crafter book and tool per week)

A little off topic, but this reminds me of a post I once saw on the WoW forum (back when I used to play), where some dude was begging for Blizzard to make it so single characters could adopt every profession, because they thought the idea of leveling alts was too cumbersome.

Keep in mind, alts are pretty important to WoW, since you're stuck with the one class per character. Everybody and their grandma has at least 3 characters at max because leveling is so streamlined in that game. And it's not like each character is insulated from each other--it's pretty common to form shell guilds solely for the purpose of sharing cash and materials between characters easily, and every new expansion seems to add more and more ability to have characters benefit from their alts. The newest expansion coming in about a week or so is blurring the line so much that it's basically FFXIV class swapping with a few more loading screens.

Needless to say, people on the forum ate him alive, telling him that he was suggesting that they uproot a pretty fundamental part of WoW gameplay just because he was too lazy to do what everyone else had already been doing for 15 (?) years at that point. I think I personally responded saying something about how I disliked how people were always trying to turn WoW into other games when they could just... y'know, play those other games.

Anyways, what were we talking about?

I'd rather they rework crafting. Maybe make it so its harder to get the items you need. Maybe have some items be things you get dropped from savage fights in prep for the next savage tiers. I dunno. Just spitballin.

It doesn't need nerfing, no. You can craft the consumables with very much entry set. If you're under the impression that you need to spend millions upon millions of Gil to meld in order to craft the items, then I am sorry but not enough research has been done on your part. They've already simplified and gutted the crafting system to enable literally anyone to make their own macros for their own stats. It doesn't need further simplification or nerfing, especially when minimal research has been done (In my opinion).

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Originally Posted by Xellith

I'd rather they rework crafting. Maybe make it so its harder to get the items you need. Maybe have some items be things you get dropped from savage fights in prep for the next savage tiers. I dunno. Just spitballin.

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The problem with this is you're then essentially requiring that people will have cleared the previous tier to get items to help them gear for the subsequent tier. How it works now is fine, that way if someone is new they can just essentially come in on that tier, get a fresh set of crafted and then be well-prepared.

They don't really need to make items harder to get, they just need to diversify where you get the items from, e.g., Grand Company materials have gone unused for near 7-8 years.

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Originally Posted by Rinalas

Cool, I'll just start selling my raid loot then? Because that's a marketable commodity that I obtain from the content I actually enjoy doing. /s

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yes, you do actually. use your uncapped tomestones to buy the new materials and sell them for like 20-80k gil each!

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Originally Posted by Rinalas

Cool, I'll just start selling my raid loot then? Because that's a marketable commodity that I obtain from the content I actually enjoy doing. /s

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That's exactly what you should do.

Criterion gives you a tradeable mount you can sell.

There are mounts and minions you can trade in for Faux Leafs which you also can sell.

I would suggest you to run the Bozja weeklies and exchange the coins for the hair style and sell it on the market board.

I am sure there are more options. What about deep dungeons? It's difficult content as well and it has marketable mounts.

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Originally Posted by Rinalas

Cool, I'll just start selling my raid loot then? Because that's a marketable commodity that I obtain from the content I actually enjoy doing. /s

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Raid loot is a marketable commodity, though? Plenty of people would pay Gil for a M1S-M4S carry with loot.

You say this like the game doesn't have an excessive supply problem. In a single day, demand for my consumables fell off a cliff while the amount of people coming home from work and listing their own skyrocketed. I went to go work out for half an hour, and when I came back prices had fallen so hard that I was sitting there wondering if I should even continue. I don't even want to log in and see how bad it is now. If you're upset about consumables being too tedious to make, don't worry! In like 2-3 days the great community will undercut each other until the only people still listing this crap are bots and desperate morons, and the price will be not only affordable, but so cheap that you'll ask yourself how anyone is even making a profit.

I seriously hate this game's economy. It's trash. There's like one day at the start where the demand and the prices feel high enough to make all the manual gathering and time consumption feel worth committing to, but once the hype passes and the demand goes away, your stuff just sits on the market while bots help drive its value down hour after hour. Literally just give it time and then just buy a good deal in bulk. Buyer power is insane in XIV. You'll be fine.

If you want to have the best potions and the best food as buff food for difficult content in your static, you have to pay the usual market prices!

Because this is currently associated with a certain amount of time spent gathering and crafting the required materials.

If the amount of consumables required for this were reduced, the market would be flooded with buff food for raiders.

Disastrous for those who have invested a lot of time in getting their gatherers and crafters to the highest level and now get less gil for it.

In my free company, I was also the crafter who did everything for everyone. I even collected and produced buff food for members for free. In return, the raiders put me through some difficult content. That's how I got many a mount.

If Square Enix reduces the number of materials needed for buff food, I request that all mounts from difficult content can be traded on the market. Yes, and I am able to easily pay >100 million gil for such a mount!

use macro 1....wait for macro 1 to finish....use macro 2....rinse and repeat.
I wish we got maybe double the output per craft it's so mindnumbingly boring especially if you're creating a bulk...maybe they can do something with specialists and make it more useful.

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Originally Posted by GlowClam

Because this is currently associated with a certain amount of time spent gathering and crafting the required materials.[/B]

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This is the problem.

Food and pots are HQ and high difficulty recipes, so require two macros. Depending on gear, you need HQ components as well, which also require macro or two.

So it is about 2 min of crafting for 3 pots. Pot has CD of 4:30.

If you do content where you need to pot on every pull you would need to spend as much time on DoL/DoH as raiding when accounting for timed nodes etc.

Bulk crafting this is cringe gameplay, pressing a button every minute on macro <se.1> for an hour+ while watching Youtube.

SE either needs to get rid of HQ food and buffs or implement HQ quick synth when certain conditions (such as crafting certain amount of items manually) are met.

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Originally Posted by Somnolence

This is the problem.

Food and pots are HQ and high difficulty recipes, so require two macros. Depending on gear, you need HQ components as well, which also require macro or two.

So it is about 2 min of crafting for 3 pots. Pot has CD of 4:30.

If you do content where you need to pot on every pull you would need to spend as much time on DoL/DoH as raiding when accounting for timed nodes etc.

Bulk crafting this is cringe gameplay, pressing a button every minute on macro <se.1> for an hour+ while watching Youtube.

SE either needs to get rid of HQ food and buffs or implement HQ quick synth when certain conditions (such as crafting certain amount of items manually) are met.

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Not a problem whatsoever, just people wanting the easy way out instead of investing the effort.
Either spend the effort to make these items yourself, or fork over the gil for the people who did invest the effort.

Economy 101

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Originally Posted by Somnolence

This is the problem.

Food and pots are HQ and high difficulty recipes, so require two macros. Depending on gear, you need HQ components as well, which also require macro or two.

So it is about 2 min of crafting for 3 pots. Pot has CD of 4:30.

If you do content where you need to pot on every pull you would need to spend as much time on DoL/DoH as raiding when accounting for timed nodes etc.

Bulk crafting this is cringe gameplay, pressing a button every minute on macro <se.1> for an hour+ while watching Youtube.

SE either needs to get rid of HQ food and buffs or implement HQ quick synth when certain conditions (such as crafting certain amount of items manually) are met.

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Why are you potting every pull? This is extremely wasteful, no wonder you're burning through them. General advice to not use expensive pots/food until your party hits enrage and actually knows the fight. I'm still just using Endwalker endgame food until I'm confident my group will clear because it's cheap and still gives a good enough buff.

But yeah no, save your pots for a group that deserves them lol, especially any pots from DT. Use Endwalker ones if you really need to.

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

Why are you potting every pull? This is extremely wasteful, no wonder you're burning through them. General advice to not burn expensive pots/food until your party hits enrage and actually knows the fight. I'm still just using Endwalker endgame food until I'm confident my group will clear because it's cheap and still gives a good enough buff.

But yeah no, save your pots for a group that deserves them lol.

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Not talking about myself, just putting some math for context.

TOP week1 prog required potting every pull due to dps checks.

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Originally Posted by NekoNova

Not a problem whatsoever, just people wanting the easy way out instead of investing the effort.
Either spend the effort to make these items yourself, or fork over the gil for the people who did invest the effort.

Economy 101

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Good thing you don't have #FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE tag, because defending this "gameplay" yet complaining about healer 11111111111111 spam would be funny :)

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Originally Posted by Somnolence

Not talking about myself, just putting some math for context.

TOP week1 prog required potting every pull due to dps checks.



Good thing you don't have #FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE tag, because defending this "gameplay" yet complaining about healer 11111111111111 spam would be funny :)

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I'd go so far as to say your math is flawed tbh. I made some of the new items yesterday and it definitely wasn't 2 minutes per craft. If you're using an umoptimized macro, then sure. However, people who actually know how to build them or people who know how crafting works by hand can push out new items in half the time.

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Originally Posted by Somnolence

TOP week1 prog required potting every pull due to dps checks.

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Those subset of players probably prepared weeks or even months in advance and it is also very likely, given i have a few HC friends, they have dedicated crafter friends they'd ask for consumables and pentamelded crafted gear (of course they pay for those and/or hand over battle materia).

Furthermore; going into an ultimate without any preparation just because they feel like it today is a trainwreck waiting to happen.

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Originally Posted by Plumerian_Ariadust

Those subset of players probably prepared weeks or even months in advance and it is also very likely, given i have a few HC friends, they have dedicated crafter friends they'd ask for consumables and pentamelded crafted gear (of course they pay for those and/or hand over battle materia).

Furthermore; going into an ultimate without any preparation just because they feel like it today is a trainwreck waiting to happen.

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Most likely yes to this. IIRC a lot of the hardcore groups have crafters they keep on retainer for their group or bulk pre-order from someone off the PF prior to the patch hitting. Depends on the group. I at least had a hand in working for a pre-order PF crafter during Endwalker and most of their purchases were bulk orders for statics.

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

I'd go so far as to say your math is flawed tbh. I made some of the new items yesterday and it definitely wasn't 2 minutes per craft. If you're using an umoptimized macro, then sure. However, people who actually know how to build them or people who know how crafting works by hand can push out new items in half the time.

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I find it funny how you all ignore the meat of the argument (Mass crafting pots/food is boring and tedious) and just nitpick about details.

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Originally Posted by Somnolence

I find it funny how you all ignore the meat of the argument (Mass crafting pots/food is boring and tedious) and just nitpick about details.

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Then buy them.

Here, I'll even give you a way to make gil. Market flip. For an hour a day of your time you can make tens of millions in a week. It's not hard. I've personally pulled in 50m in a week and a half before.

If you don't want to craft because you don't find it fun, find a way to make gil. Crafting has already been nerfed into the ground for as long as I've been around to make it more accessible to people and believe it or not, some do find it fun to the point that they spend hours every day crafting.

If you don't want to do either of those things, find a sugar daddy I guess.

Labor theory of value is action. This is actually funny.

Funny enough food and potions are prolly the few craftables that dont really require other crafting jobs. As for gear, if you arent going for the world 1st race with raids you can easily wait a few days to a week as crafted gear just plummets in price... crafting is just too easy nowadays...

lmao the sheer entitlement of this post. I really hope it is bait. Nobody can be like that, right?


But sure, I'll bite:
You can craft current master recipes without pentamelding. I overmelded using last expansion's materia, and not even fully pentameld. This costed me... what... 1 million in gear, and I bought up all of the materia before dawntrail which was about 2 mil. Yay, I can now craft mastery recipes and HQ them for 100%. For the remainder of this raid series at the least, so 3 mil for 6-9 months? I'll take it, already made back 5 times that investment.

You're allowed to not enjoy crafting. You don't HAVE to engage with that mechanic.
But this argument of "omg i have to pentameld and have the bestest crafter stuff ever", is nonsense. You can easily go for budget sets that are comparatively cheap and easy to attain. Sure, maybe some crafts need 2 macros instead of 1. Big whoop. If you're a casual crafter this is a non-issue. For food, you really only need to craft 33 times to get 100 food items. This is like half an hour. And you will be set for a 50 hours of combat buff. More, if you have the FC buff of extra food timer.
For pots though, if you're dumb and you use pots while progging, yes, you will consume a lot.
You're only using pots if you're reasonably certain you can reliably get to enrage every pull, and you use the pots to get that extra buff to push past enrage. If you use 2-3 pots per pull for reliable pulls, this is not a huge "cost" either to craft. 100 pots will get you through 33-50 pulls to last push, and if you still can't clear past enrage in that amount of pulls it is definitely a skill issue. And again, this is 30 minutes of crafting even for casual crafters with non-pentamelded sets. So one hour of casual crafting your raid food and your pots combined and you will be set for quite a while, weeks I would say.

You can buy the precrafts and ingredients off the MB, they're often marked up less than the final product. If you're gonna bother gathering it all yourself, yeah, you'll need to spend more time.

So you have the choice of either spending gil to save time, or spending time to save gil. Almost like real life economies.
If you think you should not have to spend gil nor time but get something in return for it, you're entitled and thinking you can have the best of both.


If you struggle to make gil: skill issue. Surprise surprise you actually need to play the game and do stuff. Shocking, I know.
Lots of things you can do to make gil, enough to avoid crafting and instead buy all the things you need.

Unless you are literally saying: "I only want to do endgame raiding and NOTHING ELSE".
In that case... you do you, but that's a silly way to play an MMO and perhaps this type of game isn't for you.
Endgame raiding is not a standalone part of the game. It's a culmination of many different interlocking mechanics and people working together with that as an endgoal for endgame raiders.

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Originally Posted by Somnolence

Good thing you don't have #FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE tag, because defending this "gameplay" yet complaining about healer 11111111111111 spam would be funny :)

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I'm not part of the #FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE circus, I'm just healing dungeons on my WHM like always.

I melded my gear, no overmelds, was able to do every master recipe I wanted just fine with proper crafting techniques.

Learn how the system works and there's no rngesus involved. Good luck :)

If you don't want to go through what's necessary to craft it yourself, then collect the gil to buy what you need. It's a good thing this game keeps the products from crafting relevant and gives them value in the economy. I've seen games where crafting is just a side afterthought and we don't need that here.

You also don't need to spend millions of gil to get ready for crafting. You can get materia yourself. It will cost time with scrips instead of gil, but that's the tradeoff. Either the cost is in gil and it's quick or less expensive but is going to cost in time.

Funfact...you dont need pentameld to craft the newest stuff. Just use the right bufffood and tea.

Honestly, the main reason I had the stance I did is because Square has proven that they listen to "nerf" feedback the most. If I wanted any sort of change, that seemed the easiest way to be heard. However ultimately, most of you are right in that nerfing this content would be silly. Really, my belief is simply that regardless of difficulty I shouldn't have to do this at all. End-game content in general is a resource sink with no material value return and no contribution to the market. It's the singular area of the game where investment is required for no return other than the joy of simply doing it. I believe at least one of the following should be implemented:

A) Raids should drop loot you can sell. Criterion having things like the umbrella and such is a good start. We need more of that, including for savage and ultimates where you need the consumables even more. A small change to make would be perhaps the orchestrion can drop from savage exclusively instead of normal mode and the mount can be sold. (If anyone is about to comment that the mount is more of a symbol of accomplishment remember that people can always just go and undersize it next expansion anyways so it really isn't)
B) End-game content should reward some sort of token for each clear (regardless of weekly lockout) that can be traded for raid-consumes like potions, food, materia, or even dark matter.
C) Delete food or potions from the game entirely.

Every single one of you replying with "It's not that bad, wah!" or "Just do this other equally boring thing for 30 minutes a day" have missed a lot of the point. Yeah, I was arguing to make it easier so I waste less time but really, why should I waste any time at all? I shouldn't have to do virtual chores in order to play fun aspects of the game. This is a game, it's meant to be fun and it's a MMORPG with many, many ways to play and the content I enjoy to play shouldn't mean that I have to put in time grinding something that's really, really, boring. Yeah, of course I'm lazy, It's a dang video game! If I didn't feel like being lazy I'd go get a second job or something that would trade work and effort in exchange for improving my life. If there were some other game that I could play that had the raiding aspect like this but without this unnecessary junk, I'd be gone in a heartbeat.

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Originally Posted by Rinalas

Every single one of you replying with "It's not that bad, wah!" or "Just do this other equally boring thing for 30 minutes a day" have missed a lot of the point. Yeah, I was arguing to make it easier so I waste less time but really, why should I waste any time at all? I shouldn't have to do virtual chores in order to play fun aspects of the game. This is a game, it's meant to be fun and it's a MMORPG with many, many ways to play and the content I enjoy to play shouldn't mean that I have to put in time grinding something that's really, really, boring. Yeah, of course I'm lazy, It's a dang video game! If I didn't feel like being lazy I'd go get a second job or something that would trade work and effort in exchange for improving my life. If there were some other game that I could play that had the raiding aspect like this but without this unnecessary junk, I'd be gone in a heartbeat.

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Casuals and crafters may not like to acknowledge this, but I am not the only person with this viewpoint. Fortunately for you I guess, half of the people I used to raid with are already gone, a number of which were people who never had a gil to their name. Every cent they got went to buying food and pots like a drug addict bumming around town just trying to get their next hit. They couldn't even teleport anywhere half the time. Square will either need to address this aspect of the community or we'll continue dropping off and no longer paying a monthly real-money subscription for a developer that isn't interested in appealing to us. Like everything else, this is a business decision for them to make. The only reason I've even jumped onto the official forums for the first time in my many years of playtime is because I know this is the one place where I have even a marginal say in something (even if I do have the English player debuff), where Square can acknowledge that my community and viewpoint exists too.

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Originally Posted by Rinalas

Cool, I'll just start selling my raid loot then? Because that's a marketable commodity that I obtain from the content I actually enjoy doing. /s

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There is this cool thing called merc runs, join PFs paying people to have lootmaster turned on.

Also, welcome to MMORPGs. These sorts of "Spend lots of gil, or lots of time" to get your consumables is a thing in every single mmo.

Master crafting doesn't require pentamelds...hq food and gear can get it done. And standard materia slotting.

And craft hq ingredients whenever possible. That makes it extremely ez mode, especially for food. Even just one HQ ingredient can be extremely helpful.

As for ingredients like sands, is good idea to team up with Gatherer whats can collect sands for the craftings. Mao nots Crafter buts Mao LOVES the Gatherings. Mao goes out and gathers sands for FC mates whats are Crafters and thems give Mao free stuffs and do other craftings to makes Gils. Is win/win situation and much funs!