Extremely disappointed with treatment of Krile in the MSQ

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Originally Posted by ZodaSoda

Yep, this entire expansion should have started with the WoL exploring as they saw fit, helping people occasionally, Learning mysterious things about the Golden City via Yok Huy ruins, Running into Estinien randomly, Erenville ultimately using our help and what we learned to discover the Golden City, Then focus on Krile for a bit after that, then Focus on Erenville for Zone 5, Then a return to focus on Krile.

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Please become the new writter because this is what I wanted and what I thought we would get even if we would help Wuk Lamat I didn't expect the shit of story we got...

It seems it's really impossible to criticize one thing without automatically blaming Wuk Lamat for it in this forum...

I also feel like they did Krile dirty when it comes to involvement and screen time. Why are we not in the room when the old Dawnservant tells her and his kids about the Golden City? Why do we get any info about her heritage as a "btw" in a moment of emergency from Ketenramm ages later? Why did we never really talk about how she feels about this revelation, maybe dive a bit more into her history? I played Eureka and made an effort to finish it (including BA) before Dawntrail because her story and the one of Galuf interests me and then it got cut short and we only get the rough basics we absolutely need to know (same as Krile). When she meets her parents, most of the dialogue is gesturing and awkward staring in the background, not a conversation we're actually part of. This was very disappointing.

However, I don't blame Wuk Lamat for it. This is just a cheap way of looking for a scapegoat at best and another bait to actually crap on Wuk Lamat under some vague pretense at worst.

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Originally Posted by Minali

It seems it's really impossible to criticize one thing without automatically blaming Wuk Lamat for it in this forum...

I also feel like they did Krile dirty when it comes to involvement and screen time. Why are we not in the room when the old Dawnservant tells her and his kids about the Golden City? Why do we get any info about her heritage as a "btw" in a moment of emergency from Ketenramm ages later? Why did we never really talk about how she feels about this revelation, maybe dive a bit more into her history? I played Eureka and made an effort to finish it (including BA) before Dawntrail because her story and the one of Galuf interests me and then it got cut short and we only get the rough basics we absolutely need to know (same as Krile). When she meets her parents, most of the dialogue is gesturing and awkward staring in the background, not a conversation we're actually part of. This was very disappointing.

However, I don't blame Wuk Lamat for it. This is just a cheap way of looking for a scapegoat at best and another bait to actually crap on Wuk Lamat under some vague pretense at worst.

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Because its obvious Wuk Lamat was their priority and no one knows why they made such a baffling decision as to prioritize a character we had only just met for the whole MSQ, Far too much screentime, dialogue and writing went into Wuk Lamat instead of other characters and even better basic world building, And even after all that Wuk Lamat has fallen flat for a chunk of the playerbase, Wuk Lamat is no matter how you look at it a big part of the problem development and reception wise.

Christ Krile is 8th on that list, and to compare to Blab Lamat she gets 1/6 of the dialogue. Heck everyone is overshadowed by her by such a massive margin, it’s not even funny it’s ridiculous, the next three characters combined barely speak more then Wuk alone does, and half of that is Sphene.

We missed out on good dialogues and plot with Krile (and Erenville too) because that much, just on dialogue, was spent on Wuk Lamat?

I knew she was dominating the story but to that extent is amazing, and not in a good way.

I guess it’s on par with the last trial too since Wuk Lamat

gives us a special buff and apparently (according to someone who looked at the numbers on Reddit) out DPSs the entire party. Like apparently her solo damage is above the combined party DPS

I was really prepared to learn more about Krile, the main hook was the Golden City and Galuf plots and lore. The content to for the rite of sucession seemed like it would be secondary. But for some reason they decided to shadow just about every important plot point with putting Wuk Lamat front and center.

Wuk is really good at speaking paragraphs while saying very little.

OP can you fix the title to be more accurate? "Extremely disappointed with the treatment of every NPC and the WoL in MSQ ~ Especially Wuk Lamat can she shut up and go away please?"

Seriously Krile got done dirty but literally everyone else did too. Alisae was an insanely brief comedy relief for the first 4 zones and never had anything to say at all until zone 5. Erenville outside of his narrator duty barely exists in the first three zones, finally gets some action in zone 4, and then is still massively overshadowed by Wukie themat in zones 5 and 6. Which is honestly the biggest WTH moment when you think about it. Erenville is literally the ONLY character who is with you through the entire expansion.... and he still gets less than a third of Wuk Lamat's lines. Thancred and Urianger basically stop existing after zone 3. Yshtola may as well not have even shown up. Graha Tia basically didn't exist until zone 6. Estinien gets less screen time and lines than Wuk Evu. Koana and Bakool Ja Ja get character assassinated to become Wuk Lamat simps. The WoL does fewer signature fist punch into open hands moves than Wuk Lamat does, we didn't even get to keep our signature move.

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Originally Posted by fioravictorine

Yup, instead they gave literally ALL the screen time to Wuk. And don't get me started on that last trial too uggghh

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I was actually sad that EW MSQ trial on extreme started on P2 and it didn't have like a cool shield build up mechanic from the scions, I hope to god we just skip to P2 with no Wuk yapping.

Krile and Erenville were both done EXTREMELY dirty with the ridiculous speedrun of their personal stories, they make Zero's previous world record attempt look like the entire Ascian storyline (and I liked Zero). This in spite of the fact they were "potentially" the most interesting plot hooks and characters coming into Dawntrail.

Let's face it though, every NPC got soul-siphoned to fuel Wuk Lamat. The Scions were all lobotomized zombies, the other three claimants are all rushed caricatures and even monster baddies with a backstory like Valigarmanda dip in and out in mere minutes. No one got to breathe or develop and the way they handled Erenville & his mother, I mean WTH?!!?!!

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Originally Posted by Minali

However, I don't blame Wuk Lamat for it. This is just a cheap way of looking for a scapegoat at best and another bait to actually crap on Wuk Lamat under some vague pretense at worst.

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While I agree that it can be seen as scape goating I think it's somewhat true. Krile has to be given a reason to stay in the party apart from "She likes us". So they keep her tethered to the party and the story by denying her any meaningful revelations until the tail end of the MSQ because she is near Wuk Lamat.

"If I revealed parts of your past to you then it would be helping Wuk Lamat in her battle for succession. You will find what you seek at the end." And then when it's FINALLY her turn to get an arc it's too late. The story is almost over and we're already knee deep in Wuk vs Sphene and their attempts at a philosphical standoff so she doesn't get a chance to do anything as it would distract too much from the overarching plot.

If Krile was allowed to actually investigate her past seperately from Wuk's battle for succession she would have been significantly better off.

BIG YES to more Erenville and Krile! :clapemoji:

I made a point to avoid social media & forums so my opinion wasn't altered of dawntrail.
The dungeons were amazing & most of the zones were as well.
I don't think this was a terrible start to a new expansion but I'm going to be critical of the MSQ here.

SPOILERS AHEAD -- YE BEEN WARNED

As far as MSQ pacing, Much of it went too fast & it lacked anything outside of "We need to understand these tribes. Okay, we understand let's move on." It was GO FAST -slowdown in Unlost World for Wuk Lamat- FORGET KRILE & THE SCIONS GUARDING THE GATE, JUST GO FAST. Also, The scions felt toned down or were mostly left out, so they didn't overshadow Wuk Lamat- I remember thinking "what's wrong with the twins & Urianger? why do they seem so... dull?" Alisae was really the only person who seemed to somewhat remain the same, but nothing new was added to her or Alphinaud (or Thancred, who I ship with my character). If their story is done, then they didn't need to be there at all.

Where was The in-between important story building moments that existed in previous expansions? There was hardly any pacing that allowed us to become immersed or explore each zone outside of the little event we had with Erenville. The end zones story & Solution nine felt disjointed & out of place.

-Krile. What happened to her build up? She's a new type of mage & the poster child for Dawntrail as Pictomancer. Krile has so many questions as do we, YET She basically was just in the background as a prop (just like us) until it was her turn & all she was allowed was simple dialogue over her earring & learning her real name- we didn't get to know her any better than what we knew.
Krile was left in the dust.

I truly believe the writers disregarded how to build connections or write characters with depth, like they weren't aware of the relationships our character had built with the scions & ignored any potential expectation the player may have in regards to the RPG aspect.
Everything important was given to Wuk Lamat- she filled all of the RPG roles. I want to know why were we there again? To be a babysitter? This expansion was quite often lackluster at times. It was 90% Wuk Lamat & 10% Krile. It should have been more about Krile & Erenville as well as Wuk Lamat.


I don't hate Wuk Lamat, even if she has hardly any depth or growth to her character. I actually like her for what its worth- Yet, There are alot of moments that should have been left to us, the scions & Krile though.
Wuk Lamat is not the worst character like Lyse but Wuk needed to hang back more than what she did. I wanted to tell her "No, Wuk Lamat. You're done talking."

I'm getting stormblood flashbacks with us being a stranger in a strange land & dealing with politics, but instead we're a pacifist & a babysitter. I disliked Stormblood as it is and I'm hopeful DT will improve when more story is released.

Agreed, after going through the story and learning about Krile, I was really excisted because I hoped we get lots of new information about her.

Sadly, all we got is more Wuk Lamat.

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Originally Posted by Aurumis

Erenville also deserved more :C we already knew him from before and people wanted more of him and we got, but more or less the same treatment as Krile...

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I would have been all over an expac that starred Erenville, tbh. Moar Erenville pls

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Originally Posted by HeyMcFly

I made a point to avoid social media & forums so my opinion wasn't altered of dawntrail.
The dungeons were amazing & most of the zones were as well.
I don't think this was a terrible start to a new expansion but I'm going to be critical of the MSQ here.

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I did the same - avoided discord and viewing anything to avoid spoilers.
I wouldn't say I "ship" my character with any specific scion, but my 2 favorites are on the "opposing" team. For me there was one part that really disappointed in regards to certain scions.

I forget exactly which zone, but some people needed to be saved and Urianger, who often quotes Louisoix regarding saving others, decides that he doesn't need to help? And Thancred is also okay with this? I'd like to think that the reason Koana returned to help is because of some prodding from Urianger and Thancred, but it feels more like the writers wanted this to be Koana's decision. It doesn't make sense for Louisoix's students to just discard his teachings over some contest. It felt like the writers just ignored all previous character development and want to recreate them to fit whatever the plot needs. I hope this doesn't continue though where every expansion the scions are there, but act completely differently based on the story. I would definitely rather they be retired and new characters introduced in that case.

I feel very strongly about this and don't think the Scions need to be retired at all. They're fan favourites, and people love to see them! I know I'd be really sad if my favourite were gone :(

I do think, however, that they need to be used properly. Instead of having every single Scion come along every expansion and do nothing, just bring a maximum of 1-2 if you need them at all - the rest can be off doing their own things elsewhere, and we can catch up with them later down the line, either in the next expansion or somewhere in the patches! Swap them out, have them take turns in the narrative so they feel fresher. I'd like a mixture of new characters and our old friends, but with the caveat that that these characters are respected, listened to and brought along for the right reasons.

I agree, the scions don’t need to travel everywhere in a clown car. We’re going to find out about krile? Take krile along, serendipitously bump into Estinien and that’s the lot. Possibly even have a nebulous mercenary entourage from the locals if need be for the trusts (don’t think anyone forgot about proggo in gubal). There’s no reason for a car to pull up and have the supporting cast fall out in the manner they did. Maybe call one in as an expert, but everyone ending up that far from home is asking a bit too much from the willing suspension of disbelief.

Every time Krile asked about the Golden City and was let down, I just wanted to pick her up, put her on my shoulder, and say, "C'mon, we'll find it on our own." And when we finally get there, she doesn't even get to open the damn gate!

I've always liked Krile. It's a shame her character was no more useful than mine.

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Originally Posted by Kennar

Every time Krile asked about the Golden City and was let down, I just wanted to pick her up, put her on my shoulder, and say, "C'mon, we'll find it on our own." And when we finally get there, she doesn't even get to open the damn gate!

I've always liked Krile. It's a shame her character was no more useful than mine.

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THAT WAS INSULTING. It's finally her one moment in the story to do something...and then THE RANDOM BABY (that shouldn't even exist in the first place) opens the gate while he is barely even aware of what the hell is happening there.

I really cannot stress how little screen time Krile gets. Wuk Lamat, as much as I’m ok with her, should absolutely NOT take up all the screen time.

If anything, ALL THE TIME WUK ISN’T IN THE SCENE IS WHEN STORY GETS BETTER. I cannot stress this enough: Please write your characters with some thought, and the fact we didn’t get to check in with Koana for Solution Nine and all that? That 2nd half should’ve been Koana taking lessons out of Wuk’s book and learning to try and understand as the Vow of Reason - using his reasoning and smarts in technology to understand how Solution Nine worked. But nah, Big Cat is always the center of attention.

i agree, very disappointing. looked forward to krile but there wasnt anything. she was excited to carry her own weight in battle, but she was sidelined all the time. very disappointing.

we got like half an hour about her, but even then she didnt really do anything.

instead we got wuk saying the same stuff over and over again and a little cute boy without point.

I noticed this too, and really soon in the story as well. I don't hate Wuk Lamat, I just cannot believe how my favorite characters were treated in this expac. Why even have them in the story at all. I hop on to play with my husband still, but I don't think I can enjoy FF the same way anymore :(

Not a Krile fan really but I agree. This was her chance to really shine after being in the background/support for so long.

The party showed more concern for Wuk being afraid of motion sickness than they did for Krile or Erenville with their massive losses.

Really hoping to see more of a focus on Krile in the patches… I liked the rest of the story, but Krile’s part in the story just seemed too squished, and I hate that we didn’t even get to see when she was initially told about her parents. You don’t even really get to comfort her at all throughout the whole ordeal! As someone who went through Eureka, my character considers her a close friend. Not to mention poor Erenville. Krile at least suspected her parents were dead, Erenville thought his mother was very much alive until she wasn’t, and there was very little support for him as well.

Krile’s story was the thing I was most looking forward to in Dawntrail. I really hope it’s not over yet, and she will take the spotlight as we look into the key and its origins. The succession contest is over, it was a good hook for world building Tural. But I want the patches to go into the potential plot points introduced in the later half of the story.

Yeah the mishandling of Krile is one of the most annoying decisions for me in DT's MSQ. She even gets done dirty in the actual opening of the City of Gold. If I wanted to see classic characters get shit on so much in a story I'd go back to watching Star Wars.

Also Sphene is second in spoken dialog. Given how late she shows up in the MSQ that's impressive. Although I'm not sure if it's indicative of how well they fleshed her out in short time, or condemning of how little everyone else not named Wuk Lamat is in the MSQ.

https://i.ibb.co/LpwcnNW/one-day-kri...lpw5hbfd1.webp

artist and source from reddit thread, https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...krile_one_day/

Even as someone who, overall, enjoyed Dawntrail it's very hard to disagree with this element of the story.

I really do hope they explore it more - her time with her parents was hopelessly brief and we learnt very little about them.

Krile should NEVER speak again. She was always a dull character.

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Originally Posted by fioravictorine

artist and source from reddit thread, https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...krile_one_day/

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Well to be fair, WL did that even to the WoL, so Krile is pretty small fry in comparison.

Krile is probably my least favorite Scion. I can't never tell what kind of character she's supposed to be? A smart, sweet, easy going but attentive young girl or an overbearing, sassy middle age woman? A large part of the confusion is attributed to her English VA.

But even I felt sorry for her in DT. Krile is someone who has been stuck in a perpetual identity crisis about her role in the story, DT was supposed to be when she finally establish one ... and a certain someone just gobble up all the screen time instead.

I was really excited to learn more about Krile, and the reason I was excited and pushed forward during the MSQ was for Krile and Erenville. Sucks that the story went the way it did and now we can't take it back and fix all the writing mishaps. They needed to build up her backstory more, or let her shine more in scenes, but we're never going to get that. Best we can do is... nothing actually. Patch 7.1-7.3 will be all about Wuk Lamat and the little Prince or Sphene, with 7.4-7.5 about Wuk Lamat and w.e happens next. The writing seems to leave little room for Krile in the future too, aside from comments about what's going on or praising Wuk Lamat.

Wukkie needs to die, for others to flourish.

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

But even I felt sorry for her in DT. Krile is someone who has been stuck in a perpetual identity crisis about her role in the story, DT was supposed to be when she finally establish one ... and a certain someone just gobble up all the screen time instead.

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This.

I mean, the final chapter of Endwalker, the cinematics and the trailers all strongly hinted at Krile receiving attention - I mean, the two Lalafell escaping into the portal in the cinematic were always going to end up being her parents.

But all we really got was a questionably delivered reveal, some exposition, a reveal of her birth name and then "we're only memories". And then they were gone in what should've been a far more tear-jerking moment than it actually was.

Again, I'm not a Wuk Lamat hater - but I do think there were numerous instances where the story desperately needed her to step back; this was one of those instances and the fact that the story couldn't do that was a real pity.

Man, im so mad because i was tanking Sphene in the last trial, then comes Wuk Lamat and..... steals all the protagonism.

I don't even like Krile and I can say she got done dirty.

I don't even like Krile and I agree with OP.

I've been a Krile Hater since Eureka but I was hoping they'd use this chance to do something interesting with her character and give her some much needed development. Instead she just passively exists for the majority of the MSQ, doing and contributing absolutely nothing but filling a Duty Support slot. You could cut her out of the first half of the story or replace her with another character and it wouldn't change anything. She gets no unique dialogue that ties her to the Scions--every time I talked to her, she just said something useless like, "I can handle myself now!" (didn't ask or ever imply otherwise), or "Hm, here's an obvious observation about the plot I'm repeating for you since you talked to me." Even her one important moment to use the Plot Item gets given to another character! It was so ridiculous that at that point I just laughed. Then she gets a really hastily thrown in backstory in the last zone that feels really forced and awkward and still doesn't really change anything, because her birth parents never actually knew her so they can't offer us much about here character besides the lore that she was born on another shard, which, okay, neat, except it still doesn't actually change or impact her character or story to learn that. We already knew she was adopted, this just added that she was adopted from ~another world!~ Ooooh! ...how does that change anything or actually matter to her character again?

I'm sorry Krile fans, y'all deserved better than this and I support your anger.

Haven't seen this one in the forums yet:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...98959192ad752&

Unless she gets more character development and moments / screentime in the patches. It was a straight up lie.

Could've removed a lot of stuff to make way for her.

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Originally Posted by FlowerMilk

Dawntrail was half setup to be a story revolving around Krile, an already established character that we know and love that people were asking to see more of. She finally gets a cool new job and comes to help us fight, yay! But instead it's literally just Wuk Lamat: the expansion.

And halfway through the story we learn

that we are investigating Krile's homeland, where she literally came from, where her family is from,

but for some reason 90% of the screentime is still focused on Wuk Lamat??? Why?!

That's my #1 reason I hate Wuk Lamat, because of how much well deserved screentime she took away from Krile. This expansion should have SO much more Krile screentime, it's ridiculous and disappointing that they sidelined her this way.

Edit: Also completely agree with people saying that Erenville should have got more focus, too.

Here is a graph showing dialogue spoken per character in Dawntrail, Krile should not be that far down and Wuk Lamat's lines should be cut by AT LEAST half.

https://i.imgur.com/EKq4GuO.jpeg

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people got nothing better to do than count words to bitch about them? you gotta be kidding me.

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Originally Posted by 1313

people got nothing better to do than count words to bitch about them? you gotta be kidding me.

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Hey if they’d liked the story maybe the energy would have gone into discussing it rather than lamenting the triannual event not being as enjoyable as hoped.