Benchmark 1.1 Feedback - Viera

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HildyElaHita

Hey there !

Thank you for the Benchmark changes.

Unfortunately, it seems that there are still existing issues in the design of viera face 3, especially concerning the lips. Something is wrong, my viera who had a cute smile before is kinda sulking now. Bottom lips need to be softer or something. I tried many colors but I didn't find any solution.

I am very disappointed and I consider using a filter... :(

BEFORE - 6.58
https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...671&height=671

AFTER - BENCHMARK
https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...671&height=671

ZOOM
https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...350&height=350

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Face 3 user here! It also bothers me so hopefully they fix it. Bottom lips are not okay on face 3. You can easily notice it on lips 2 and 4, but it affects all lips. It is sad that last benchmark had the same issue and it wasn't fixed, and if people don't talk about it then it won't be fixed for official release.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cherrizini

Face 3 user here! It also bothers me so hopefully they fix it. Bottom lips are not okay on face 3. You can easily notice it on lips 2 and 4, but it affects all lips. It is sad that last benchmark had the same issue and it wasn't fixed, and if people don't talk about it then it won't be fixed for official release.

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Same thing on male viera face 3 actually. I really miss that faint smile

I posted my concerns in another thread, but I'll lightly reiterate here; I don't really like how dull hair has gotten, even black hair, and I'd like if some of its vibrancy could be restored. Eyebrows are worse as a result as well.

I also agree that the lips could use some work. I see the vision, but they look off? Some of it is shaders, some of it is unfortunate reshaping (my condolences to all female Viera affected), and some of it is... artistic decisions, probably? I have mixed feelings about what's become of my boy's lipstick, but I'll wait to see his emotes in the game before I let myself sulk. He does look much, much better than in the original benchmark, though.

My biggest problems with my many bnuuy currently are how very muted (almost invisible, even on pale faces) the rabbit nose is on male Viera faces compared to live and the changes to lip shape across the board. I'll bite the bullet and get cc data for both live and the 1.1bench for examples on all of them once I'm less busy (I have... so many Viera.....), but they're both visible on every comparison between live and current benchmark I remember.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rudje

My biggest problems with my many bnuuy currently are how very muted (almost invisible, even on pale faces) the rabbit nose is on male Viera faces compared to live and the changes to lip shape across the board. I'll bite the bullet and get cc data for both live and the 1.1bench for examples on all of them once I'm less busy (I have... so many Viera.....), but they're both visible on every comparison between live and current benchmark I remember.

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Tbh I do prefer new lips, at least on face 3 for guys. The shape seems to be generally the same for that one from what I observed, with most changes coming from new rendering and shading to give it more volume. The harsh shadow on the upper lip in Live version makes it look like they're different, but upon closer look they're honestly looking fairly identical in general outline. I'd need to fetch my tablet to draw over it and compare, though. (That's for face 3 only though, I didn't closely go over other faces for male Viera, and female Viera have more apparent differences where new rendering and shading doesn't really explain those)

The shading on the nose, on the other hand... Where's the bunny, SE. Where's the bunny?

Quoting own post so it is also in this Viera specific thread.

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Originally Posted by Yencat

https://i.imgur.com/SqZIGST.jpeg

Veena face 3, mouth 1, eyebrows 2, eyes 4.

Overall, it's much improved from the first benchmark! The good;

The contours of the jaw are visible again, the dark halfmoon over the top half of the eyes is lessened so she doesn't look so ominous, the lips are glossier again, and the pupils are bigger again but the colour accuracy is still much better than the original Veena eyes.

The bad;

The line between the upper and lower lip is still missing its curve and is a straight line rather than a defined upper lip (this is an issue on almost everyone, it seems.), the already sparse Veena eyebrows are a little better, but still very smudgy and barely visible compared to currently.

https://i.imgur.com/MFcjqNh.png

https://i.imgur.com/Vy9r3k3.png

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The character isn't actually smiling in the before, but the shading in the corners of the mouth and the loss of shape in the circled area make the mouth look downturned, and it looks like she's posing for a mug shot instead of having a more serene, neutral expression.

I really don't know what to say about the eyebrows, but since there are complaints from other people that their character's eyebrows are suddenly too dark, I'd just like to once again suggest that you please let us color our eyebrows independently from the hair. I don't know how difficult this is to do from a technical perspective, but it would solve the issue of eyebrows being too light or too dark at the same time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Yencat

Quoting own post so it is also in this Viera specific thread.



The character isn't actually smiling in the before, but the shading in the corners of the mouth and the loss of shape in the circled area make the mouth look downturned, and it looks like she's posing for a mug shot instead of having a more serene, neutral expression.

I really don't know what to say about the eyebrows, but since there are complaints from other people that their character's eyebrows are suddenly too dark, I'd just like to once again suggest that you please let us color our eyebrows independently from the hair. I don't know how difficult this is to do from a technical perspective, but it would solve the issue of eyebrows being too light or too dark at the same time.

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Yeah the eyebrows are another issue on their own. I swap between grey and the lightest pink, and my character looks eyebrowless on the benchmark. I find it funny and I don't mind the look, but I know it will bother a lot of people. It is prevalent in a lot of races so it will probably be fixed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Halivel

Tbh I do prefer new lips, at least on face 3 for guys. The shape seems to be generally the same for that one from what I observed, with most changes coming from new rendering and shading to give it more volume. The harsh shadow on the upper lip in Live version makes it look like they're different, but upon closer look they're honestly looking fairly identical in general outline. I'd need to fetch my tablet to draw over it and compare, though. (That's for face 3 only though, I didn't closely go over other faces for male Viera, and female Viera have more apparent differences where new rendering and shading doesn't really explain those)

The shading on the nose, on the other hand... Where's the bunny, SE. Where's the bunny?

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Face 3 Lip 3 at least is noticeably different and it's not just shadow. unredlined, as a base; the redlined comparison is below (don't use for color comparison, I forgot to fuck with the benchmark gamma); the alignment is slightly off, i think, but it's not so far off that the lip shape should be changed as drastically as it is. If it was the only thing that got skipped in editing over it would be acceptable, to be clear, since his resting severe depression face hasn't been impacted, but it looks slightly... thinner isn't the word, scrunched? in a way I'm not a fan of. It's clearest in the cupid's bow, the peaks are higher and the dip is lower which when combined with how the lip color has been drawn in makes his mouth seem slightly smaller in comparison even though looking at the actual corners it clearly isn't. Even at my most generous, it's a narrower shape (the lower lip is less offensive, since it seems to be an issue of the texture being less blended).

Also looking at this I'm being reminded of how much I hate how thinned out the thick eyelashes option has been made... but yeah, it's part of broader changes in how the lips are being drawn and is part of a stylistic shift I do not enjoy even if, standalone, it would be tolerable.

https://images2.imgbox.com/44/46/Jo7LmsOu_o.png
Not my best work, my hands kept spasming at bad times, but you can see the what i'm talking about a bit better re: lips. It's minor compared to a lot, it's just... symptom of a broader problem I've seen a lot elsewhere.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cherrizini

Yeah the eyebrows are another issue on their own. I swap between grey and the lightest pink, and my character looks eyebrowless on the benchmark. I find it funny and I don't mind the look, but I know it will bother a lot of people. It is prevalent in a lot of races so it will probably be fixed.

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I hope so! But I do have some doubts considering it is already an issue in the game right now with certain hair and skin color combinations.

The mouths seem a little off on almost everyone, so unless it was a deliberate choice I have more hopes of them fixing that.

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Originally Posted by Rudje

Face 3 Lip 3 at least is noticeably different and it's not just shadow. unredlined, as a base; the redlined comparison is below (don't use for color comparison, I forgot to fuck with the benchmark gamma); the alignment is slightly off, i think, but it's not so far off that the lip shape should be changed as drastically as it is. If it was the only thing that got skipped in editing over it would be acceptable, to be clear, since his resting severe depression face hasn't been impacted, but it looks slightly... thinner isn't the word, scrunched? in a way I'm not a fan of. It's clearest in the cupid's bow, the peaks are higher and the dip is lower which when combined with how the lip color has been drawn in makes his mouth seem slightly smaller in comparison even though looking at the actual corners it clearly isn't. Even at my most generous, it's a narrower shape (the lower lip is less offensive, since it seems to be an issue of the texture being less blended).

Also looking at this I'm being reminded of how much I hate how thinned out the thick eyelashes option has been made... but yeah, it's part of broader changes in how the lips are being drawn and is part of a stylistic shift I do not enjoy even if, standalone, it would be tolerable.

https://images2.imgbox.com/44/46/Jo7LmsOu_o.png
Not my best work, my hands kept spasming at bad times, but you can see the what i'm talking about a bit better re: lips. It's minor compared to a lot, it's just... symptom of a broader problem I've seen a lot elsewhere.

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Hmm...

What's interesting is that mouth 1 doesn't seem to face the same issue, and as far as I understand they should all technically adjust from the same baseline model. Its cupid line is practically the same. Which makes the difference in mouth 3 a touch weird.
(Pardon me my slightly un-perfect drawing)

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...c4630b79c2977&

https://lds-img.finalfantasyxiv.com/...cc73a84441.jpg

Another bad edit lol

Also I demand speckled ears like in FFXII

New benchmark still has issues with the darkened nose feature on viera male face 1.

Left image feature is on, right image is off.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...fbd8948eba466&

Compared to how it looks ig now

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...d62bc773cd22a&

With lighter skin tones it shows but the darker you go it disappears or turns reddish.

I'm really quite happy with how my main Viera has transferred over.

Endwalker:
https://i.imgur.com/G49TYGR.jpg

Benchmark 1.1:
https://i.imgur.com/OGaXP2G.jpg


Her nose shading has changed a decent amount, but it's not anything I mind.

Her lip shape has changed, but compared to some other races/faces, it's pretty minor IMO. The upper lip has lost that "v" shape in the middle (where the upper/lower lips touch), and the bottom lip looks like she's had a bit of filler. I thought it looked slightly weird at some angles during the benchmark, but even that I feel may be a bit nitpicky. As a whole I think she survived the update pretty well!

My second Viera..

Endwalker:
https://i.imgur.com/eOlmkyr.jpg

Benchmark 1.1:
https://i.imgur.com/nxC4BqD.jpg

I really don't like the change in her lips on this one. The corners look downturned, she's also lost the shape to her upper lip (like my bun above), and the bottom lip also looks swollen. Makes for a not-great look to me. :X

For her nose, while I didn't mind the new shading on my main bun, I don't love it so much here. It seems to make her nose look more narrow at the tip vs. flaring a little.

Her jawline is also looking way more squared off, but I'm not sure if that's due to the shading, or the fact I forgot to put her in smallclothes for an even comparison, or what....but yeah. Not loving this for her.

Aside from her lips, I'm thinking the other items may not look quite so off to me once I get her in game. They seem to be more angle/lighting dependent (at least I'm hoping so).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Freyen

New benchmark still has issues with the darkened nose feature on viera male face 1.

Left image feature is on, right image is off.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...fbd8948eba466&

Compared to how it looks ig now

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...d62bc773cd22a&

With lighter skin tones it shows but the darker you go it disappears or turns reddish.

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This is the same problem happening with the lala tarutaru nose :(
I really hope they can fix this before launch.

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Originally Posted by Roda

So far my only complaints are:

Dunesfolk nose smudge is still being eaten by what I can only assume is the translucent skin shaders
EW
https://i.gyazo.com/41e4e19f5d8c98ce...021ce70d7c.gif
DT
https://i.gyazo.com/4b24bb4387b8fe21...1f42762cfa.gif

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And yeah, that bottom gif is toggling the feature off (matches skin tone) and on (pink blush).
It's like she has a drunk person's nose! D;

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roda

This is the same problem happening with the lala tarutaru nose :(
I really hope they can fix this before launch.


And yeah, that bottom gif is toggling the feature off (matches skin tone) and on (pink blush).
It's like she has a drunk person's nose! D;

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oh i was just about to come here to post about this, i made a whole thread for it during the last benchmark feedback period! https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ial-feature%29

I didn't even think about the fact that fem lalas would be affected, but that makes so much sense now that both nose facial features broke due to the new way textures are being processed.

putting some example images from my thread here to have it more in one place:
current EW look when toggling the nose
https://i.imgur.com/3leI2VN.png
https://i.imgur.com/BCjysLH.png

vs in the DT benchmarks
https://i.imgur.com/AxVznto.png
https://i.imgur.com/BOIJunL.png

I play a dark skinned viera myself so losing the dark nose and instead having this well...... I do not want to call it poop nose, but i keep thinking that every time I see the bright brown on it. It saddens me a little bit, so I really hope that gets addressed at some point during DT!

https://i.imgur.com/q8f3YqF.png

Face 3, Eye 5, Nose 1, and Mouth 2

I think he came out looking great with the updated changes. My only issue is his lack of the Viera Nose. I know face 3 was always a little shafted on this aspect but I was happy to see it standing out in the last bench. In the current benchmark, it is completely gone. As many have said before I think the easiest solution would be to allow all faces to have the toggle for it. I know not many like the unique nose but it is what makes them Viera.

Overall I'm very happy with how both my buns look in the benchmark! My face 3 bunboy Banri is looking much more like himself, and while I had been satisfied with how my main Aoife looked before, she looks even better with proper lighting!

That said, there was one thing I still wanted to provide feedback about. While Aoife looks fine with a straight face, she looks a little uncanny when she smiles now because her eye color is so light. I took a comparison pic in the live game to demonstrate the difference.

https://64.media.tumblr.com/1c457df5...2b4e5736b0.png

I did check her smile in the other light environments/at night/etc, and the uncanniness persists in all of them - I think it's just the way the eye is lit now? or something with the shading? Her smile midway through the benchmark trailer also looked odd to me.

I can't claim to understand everything that goes into making our wols look the way they do, but I made a diagram with some points I think are contributing to the uncanny valley effect.

https://64.media.tumblr.com/29dd093b...94f55186f7.png

And just to see, I did some quick editing in photoshop to try to get her smile looking closer to the way it currently does.

https://64.media.tumblr.com/8046f2c3...2a51d6e597.png

I did try darkening her eye color a little bit in the benchmark and that did help somewhat, but it also made her look different with a straight face >_<. Definitely willing to see how things look in 7.0 before deciding whether to change her eye color or not, but I figured I should say something instead of just crossing my fingers and hoping it'll work out!

If someone on staff is reading this, thank you for taking our feedback into consideration!

It kind of ruins my bun boy. I'm going to submit a bug report with screenshots as evidence because it makes him look like he has allergies or something.

I decided to sit down and make comparisons after staring at my bunny for a long, long time.
Right: Live game (6.58), Left: Dawntrail Benchmark 1.1

The overall facial structure of my Viera face 2 bunny has changed in ways that kind of make me go like, "You're you, but you're also NOT you..."
I think the biggest issue for me right now is the shape of the mouth has been completely compressed into a line, so his expression is just :| :| :|
His mouth used to have more shape, including a soft, noticeable "M" in the lower part of the upper lip. I really miss it, it throws off the face for me.
They also, for some reason, shaved his entire jawline and chin so now he lost his squishiness. Sigh.

http://i.imgur.com/qDhAVP1.png
http://i.imgur.com/u8RvFJv.png
http://i.imgur.com/j09csSf.png

Ngl I'm kinda shocked the other face 3 people are happy cause my boi losing his "rabbit nose" is a massive downgrade. Why even play a rabbit race if you don't want a rabbit feature :/

Visual examples:

https://i.imgur.com/Bidf0LJ.png before

https://i.imgur.com/0c4Qnjs.png after

Like I get people hate the "darkened nose" but I'd take the dark shading if he gets his rabbit nose back :/ I'm not sure why others are pleased with this change.

I'm overall happy and the new hairstyle looks sick on my WOL!
Though he doesn't look as pissed anymore, which im undecided on wether I prefer the older or new version. Also the nose has lost tons of bunny features. Hope it gets adressed.

Endwalker:
https://i.imgur.com/CZtv5Sk.png

Dawntrail:
https://i.imgur.com/Y4SUdGv.png
https://i.imgur.com/nEZTCOT.png

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SkellCross

Ngl I'm kinda shocked the other face 3 people are happy cause my boi losing his "rabbit nose" is a massive downgrade. Why even play a rabbit race if you don't want a rabbit feature :/

Like I get people hate the "darkened nose" but I'd take the dark shading if he gets his rabbit nose back :/ I'm not sure why others are pleased with this change.

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From what I've seen the lack of shading on male Viera noses for faces 2-4 is a common complaint even for those who're happy with most changes otherwise (myself included. Give me my bunny nose. It's part of Viera identity)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gwen_Lavellan

LuciaMirain : there it is :)

Rava
Face 3
Skin tone: row 1, line 13 (Rgb 154,115,101)
Haircut: the one on my forum icon
Hair colour: row 5 line 6
Hair highlights: row 2 line 8
Jaw 2
Eyes 3
Iris (Pupils?) : big
Eye colour: row 2, line 21
Eyebrows: 3
Nose 3
Mouth 1 (but if you can also show me with 3 as well, because lips are now bigger and I’m considering switching for 3)
Lip Color ; translucent, row 3 line 6
Ears 1 , length 60
Distinctive signs : both on the 1st line (eyebrows and jewel), second on the 2nd line (second eyeliner option)
No tats
Make up 3 on the first line
Opaque, row 6 line 10

Her look in game for comparison:
https://i.imgur.com/FGs4RrY.jpg

Thank you again <3

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Here I think I got everything right! I hope this helps. I couldnt get the hair on your forumpic though.

https://i.imgur.com/sjPcKdd.png
https://i.imgur.com/DVkzHUT.png
https://i.imgur.com/3e66IAR.png
https://i.imgur.com/bfuHlXD.png
https://i.imgur.com/lj84By9.png
https://i.imgur.com/SjR0pCg.png
https://i.imgur.com/R4vCnpX.png
last pic is with the other lips you requested.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LuciaMirain

Here I think I got everything right! I hope this helps. I couldnt get the hair on your forumpic though.

https://i.imgur.com/sjPcKdd.png
https://i.imgur.com/DVkzHUT.png
https://i.imgur.com/3e66IAR.png
https://i.imgur.com/bfuHlXD.png
https://i.imgur.com/lj84By9.png
https://i.imgur.com/SjR0pCg.png
https://i.imgur.com/R4vCnpX.png
last pic is with the other lips you requested.

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Thank you so much for taking the time to do this!

Overall, that’s not that bad, except for the eyes when she smiles. I think I’ll keep the mouth 3 since it’s still relatively close to the one she has now.

For the shin colour, the new lighting renforce the grey and red subtones, so maybe I’ll switch back to her previous one.

Many many thanks again <3

All below feedback is in regards to Male Viera, Veena, Face 4
(Features selected: face 4, jaw 3, eye 3, eyebrow 1, nose 2, mouth 2)

I have prepared a breakdown of many subtle and less subtle changes that I notice have added up to create a face that is unrecognizable. Brightness on Endwalker screenshots has been increased in order to see details more clearly. Thank you in advance for your consideration.

https://i.imgur.com/kRUMX22.png

Eye Shape:

• The characteristic heavy/deep-set eyelid crease of the Endwalker graphics has been replaced with soft indistinct eyelid definition. The eyelid itself has a smoother upside down C-curve with a more upward slant in the outer half, whereas the previous graphics show an eyelid that slants upward in the inner third and then curves to slope slightly downward.
  
• The black liner outline that defines the eye shape is hardly visible and smaller compared to Endwalker graphics. It also slopes downward at the outer corner in the Dawntrail Benchmark 1.1, where previously it winged out further and went straight out and slightly upward. This changes the eye appearance drastically.
• The width of the eye socket appears to have narrowed due to changes to the shape of the black outline and the inner corner, as well as the thicker lower waterline.

These changes lead to an eye that appears less open and less defined in the Dawntrail Benchmark 1.1.

https://i.imgur.com/EW4otJD.png

https://i.imgur.com/UP3dY6o.png

https://i.imgur.com/y7aTxsk.jpeg

Eyebrows:

• The eyebrows are thinner and less visible in Dawntrail Benchmark 1.1 compared to Endwalker graphics. (See Above)

Eyeliner Tattoo:

• The eyeliner tattoo is hardly visible in the Dawntrail Benchmark 1.1. In Endwalker graphics, the tattoo has more opacity, lining the upper and lower lash lines and extending the outer corners. In Benchmark 1.1, it appears only faintly at the outer corners.

https://i.imgur.com/46BKWyD.png

Endwalker Benchmark, shown in darkest black swatch

https://i.imgur.com/uai9k1n.png

Dawntrail Benchmark 1.1, shown in darkest black swatch

https://i.imgur.com/KiG9hLF.png

Comparison, shown in red swatch with brightness and saturation up for visibility

https://i.imgur.com/BtASTGc.png

TO BE CONTINUED IN PART 2 DUE TO CHARACTER LIMITS (1/2)

CONTINUED FROM PART 1 (2/2)

All below feedback is in regards to Male Viera, Veena, Face 4
(Features selected: face 4, jaw 3, eye 3, eyebrow 1, nose 2, mouth 2)

Lip Shape:

• In Endwalker, the upper lip was larger than the lower lip and full to the corners, with a more angular shape. The lip seam contours served to emphasize the pouty fullness of the heavier upper lip. The lower lip was also full, but narrower. Overall, the upper lip was emphasized.
• In Dawntrail Benchmark 1.1, the upper lip is smaller than the lower lip and the emphasis has shifted to the lower lip. The lips are rounded instead of angular, taper out gradually to the corners, and appear more like Face 3 lips.

The Endwalker lip shape is a prominent and beloved characteristic of Face 4, distinct from the unique lip shapes of the other male viera face types.

https://i.postimg.cc/63VY7Bhz/Lip-comp.png

https://i.imgur.com/gwXDqCT.png

Jaw/Chin:

• The jawline (Type 3) appeared wider and more angular in Endwalker graphics, and appears longer, narrower, and more rounded and v-shaped in Dawntrail Benchmark 1.1. This makes the face appear more heart-shaped and elongated compared to Endwalker’s Face 4.
• In Endwalker graphics, the Face 4 chin is distinctly square and has sharp contours, which harmonizes with their other angular features. In the Dawntrail Benchmark 1.1, the chin is rounded which makes it appear softer and also longer.
• There are indentations in the sides of the jawline in Dawntrail Benchmark 1.1 that appear to be an unintentional graphical error.

https://i.imgur.com/KH5ACBM.png

https://i.imgur.com/hO9ySOd.png

Nose:

• The lighter bunny nose detail appears less prominent and is hard to see in Dawntrail Benchmark 1.1.

https://i.imgur.com/nfi45w6.png

The facial features together as they are in Endwalker lend a classical beauty to male viera Face 4 that I hope can be returned with some changes. Whoever designed this face for Endwalker did so lovingly and with amazing talent, and I hope that their artistic vision and hard work can be preserved.

As someone who likes extremes and dramatic visuals, who chose Face 4 for it’s Michael-Angelo-esque details as well as it's striking, glam-rock eye makeup, I hope that these issues can be rectified. As you can probably tell, this face means way way too much to me. I am on my knees.

Thank you so much to the Devs for your time and consideration.

Quotes from a friend: "No more Roman statue?" "That's a completely different face." "It's not an 80s glam rock face anymore."

First DT benchmark post: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post6442627

i agree! i like my bunny nose, i hope they can tune up again the details not just a smudge

I like the changes made in the 1.1 version of the benchmark and am for the most part satisfied, however I have one issue left where I don't really like the change to the mouth. The lips seem to be a different shape, more flat, and overall seem wider. I also agree with the others and I hope the nose shading is changed to be more noticeable, if I wanted a regular human nose I'd just play another race.
https://i.imgur.com/rctKvmT.png

I wanted to update this since Dawntrail officially released this week.

Where are our bunny noses? Like we got a new graphic update but they just got rid of them.