Benchmark Male Miqo'te Face 1 Feedback: Nope, still F#%@ed.

https://imgur.com/a/Bw2QvDk

Welp. DT's out, and it's still screwed. Hopefully they'll fix it in a later patch at least. Until then, time to cover my catboy's face!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheVegetable

https://imgur.com/a/Bw2QvDk

Welp. DT's out, and it's still screwed. Hopefully they'll fix it in a later patch at least. Until then, time to cover my catboy's face!

---

That sucks :( I doubt anything will happen with a later patch cause now people are using their free fanta, so they can't go and change it again later >_<

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheCat

That sucks :( I doubt anything will happen with a later patch cause now people are using their free fanta, so they can't go and change it again later >_<

---

I hope they at the very least correct the lip texture. Because at this point, I think that's likely to be the biggest problem with the mouth, and I reckon would be relatively simple to do (unlike adjusting the model itself).

I will say, though I really can't put my finger on it, I think they maybe adjusted something about the mouth? I'm probably wrong. The lip texture definitely is still all wrong

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheCat

That sucks :( I doubt anything will happen with a later patch cause now people are using their free fanta, so they can't go and change it again later >_<

---

People using a (free) fantasia is not a reason to keep people's characters looking worse. Plus, I believe the devs said that the graphics update was a constant work in progress, so there will definitely be changes and improvements over time.

Well, it's even worse in live since the benchmark trailer had pretty generous facial animations making the changes more tolerable! Sorry, guys - I honestly wanted to be polite and constructive, but I really am too annoyed right now because my Miqo'te still looks like his dim, gormless cousin and I just don't want to take him into the expansion I paid for. I'm watching Praetorium cutscenes right now, and he's so sleepy and uninterested compared to how he was before. In the second cutscene with the question, my guy's old scandalised expression has become a sort of "eeehhh huuuuhhh what'd he say" look.

Fantasia can't fix this. I still even have the first free fantasia because the original face was nearly perfect to me. It was an incredible blend of beautiful and handsome. Now it's more like, how about a free paper bag glam for the head slot instead.

the kermit the frog mouth size is one of the worst bits.

its SO MUCH WORSE.

its legitimately a downgrade.

they made my favorite alt UGLY.

they made his eyes 1/3 the size AT BEST, made his mouth TRIPLE the width, and narrowed and straightened his nose, removing his major charm point of having a rounder nose that was upturned at the end.

i hate everything about it.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...d7d7c71d9a953&


My catboy lost his eyebrows, the scar is terribly long, his face overall so soft

Crossposting here because most of the concerns in this thread have not been addressed.

I'm going to provide my feedback on the male miqo'te face 1 with mouth 4, although some of it will likely apply to other faces, genders or races.

After playing for a bit, I'm getting more used to the changes but there's several issues I see:

- Eye color is faded and darker compared to before. This is the biggest issue in my opinion. While they made the eyes look better from the first benchmark version to the second, the color of the eyes is still faded and darker compared to before. I suppose it's because it doesn't have the extra luminosity it used to have.

However, the consequence is that the character still looks "dead inside". When very specific lighting conditions are met, the eyes look fine but these situations are not that common. This also happens when I check other characters. It's hard to see the color of the irises of Keepers sometimes, for instance.

Additionally, the slit pupils of Seekers are less prominent now and harder to see.

- Eyebrows are thinner and faded and so is their color. Our eyebrows are simply less noticeable than before and face 1 didn't have thick ones to begin with, thus worsening the situation. The color of the stubble for face 1 also looks a bit faded to me.

- I personally don't mind the changes to mouth 4 but I agree that it's a big difference.

What I do feel is that the idle pose for mouth 4 makes it look as if we're smiling now. I'm not too sure if it's due to the lip color I have or if it's just like this. When checking other characters, it seems alright but sometimes when I look at mine it feels like the expression has changed for mouth 4 from normal or slightly serious to slightly smiling.

Lip color is also different.

On another note, I'm very happy that we lost the lip gap that many other mouths also had. I do wish for them to include it as an option to appeal to those players that do want it back, particularly for specific female miqo'te players.

- I have noticed that Koana has special features despite otherwise being a normal male miqo'te with face 1. One of the features that bothers me the most though is the fact that he has lower eyelashes whose color match his hair. Why can't we have those too? We literally have no lower eyelashes at all.

- The low resolution textures are still there and should be fixed: on the sides of the face, below the lower eyelids (and the lower eyelids themselves), the male markings below the eyes and face paint.

- My portraits look very weird now. I don't know what it is but they feel off and the face emotes don't convey the same feeling they did before.

Overall, the textures and graphics are great but I still feel like there's several areas to improve on. A lot of the feedback from previous posts such as this one or this very thread has not been addressed. Also, as I expected, the body being lower resolution is jarring now.

They did improve it a bit but it's far from what it should be. Fingers need more work but toes look great. I suppose it's because the former are more complex body parts due to their movement.

I will conclude by attaching my own two pictures below of the before and after for comparison.

https://i.imgur.com/BGiZv2C.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/XBkEVNg.png

Figured I'd post my new screenshots here too.

https://i.imgur.com/GcesJUd.png

Same MSQ scenes, different graphics. In EW, he has more variety. In DT, the eyelids dominate the expression. He seems less awake. The lighter eyebrows hurt a lot with face 1, because a smooth face really needs all of its points of detail and definition.

https://i.imgur.com/TETCOSG.png

Different expressions. Looking at this, I'm making the same face.

https://i.imgur.com/J2znzOU.png

Bright lighting shots, first in front of a window and then in the Praetorium. Even when being blasted in the face with light, the EW version has some deeper shadows giving emphasis to the more angular shapes of the eye. DT, on the other hand, is very soft and round. It's like all the subtle angles that gave this face character have been carefully sandpapered and blur-tooled off.

https://i.imgur.com/1xGafK8.png

While we're in the Praetorium, my old face never had its features melt this like!

Using the eyeshadow face paint helps a little with putting some detail back in his face.

https://i.imgur.com/CZ2AgFPl.png

Just, you know, don't use other face paints. That's a problem for me, because I like to use different face paints.

I'm honestly a bit shocked. No one's even told me they're identical yet, so maybe it's that noticeable.

I haven't said much about this face because I feel like this thread covers it a lot better than I can, but I wanted to +1 because the feature changes really changed the feel of the expressions.
https://i.imgur.com/80axQ7X.png
I honestly laughed aloud when I saw this change upon logging in. He went from looking gently bothered to so...genuinely scared. God. I can deal with it...but I really hope they actually change it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Doopliss

I haven't said much about this face because I feel like this thread covers it a lot better than I can, but I wanted to +1 because the feature changes really changed the feel of the expressions.

I honestly laughed aloud when I saw this change upon logging in. He went from looking gently bothered to so...genuinely scared. God. I can deal with it...but I really hope they actually change it.

---

Agreed. The expressions and the portraits look so weird now. Will have to tweak them all...

Adding my own comparison pictures:

https://i.gyazo.com/c45b44ebc5050b5d...bc07159397.jpg

It's bad, y'all, seeing what a derp they turned him into makes me wanna cry :(

https://i.gyazo.com/2496991862ca72db...4a62d1bed4.png

The lip shape is obviously the biggest offender, but the eyes look vacant too.

I really hope the lips gets fixed

I can't rightly imagine why the changes are so paradoxically minimal but at the same time massive. I pray there's a hotfix/stealth fix/some form of fix for the issues brought up in this thread, or at the very least an explanation as to why. My hyur ninja looks baller in 7.0 and I feel bad for all the miqo face 1's out there. I quickly went into create character and toyed around with Miqo masc face 1, and any combo I pick looks kinda...idk, soul-less?
Seeker Masc looks a bit like Bateman from American Psycho, there's just an uncanny valley feeling about it.
https://i.gyazo.com/9fc34d9ffb03cfa1...d1fe2118f3.png

The mouths definitely feel wrong, do we know if they were changed or updated? Like how does this happen?
https://i.gyazo.com/a397db69e14d0027...015272b38b.jpg

Yeah, our eye and mouth changes were quite invasive. Heavier eyelids and boat-shaped lower lips for everybody.

Anyway, I'm putting together a more measured and constructive post for the Japanese feedback thread. Might take a while since I'll be relying heavily on a translator and want to make sure it's as accurate as possible.

Another issue I've been noticing now that I haven't seen brought up is the new scar textures. They're definitely an improvement over the old (they don't float above the skin, for one), but the color is just very wrong now. (The shape and length changed a bit, but that doesn't bother me nearly as much.) I know the scars change with the skin color, but my WoL has a relatively cool pale skin tone and the scar color now is too warm. The long one that cuts through the right eye in particular looks really orange against my WoL's skin and I hate it. I think I'd rather have the old lower-res, floating one back... It'd be the right color and wouldn't look jarring next to the low-res cheetah lines and (freckle) face paint.

The smaller scars that can be put on the left cheek are the same color, but they're narrower so it's not as obvious, especially from the distance I'm usually looking at his face during cutscenes. But that long one... Blech.

Screenshots from in-game, 6.58 on the left and 7.0 on the right:
https://i.imgur.com/MIemc0J.png

Character creation screenshots, 6.58 on the left and Benchmark 1.1 on the right (I don't have any character creation shots from 7.0, but I don't think scars changed from the benchmark to 7.0):
https://i.imgur.com/E75n6nz.png

7.0 screenshot to show just how orange it looks:
https://i.imgur.com/uEAalzZ.png

And a bonus to help show just how jarring the cheetah line and face paint textures are against the new eyes and scars:
https://i.imgur.com/jBC5HgG.png

My main uses this face. I’m not getting the same creeped out or disgusted feeling that others in this thread have mentioned. I think, when viewed as a whole, my character’s new face looks essentially fine and recognizable as the same character. Newly-introduced issues with this face are offset by the positive things—such as the darker lip color, improved face texture, and smoother lighting—enough that my overall level of satisfaction with this character’s appearance has remained mostly the same. And, looking back on the previous version of the face, I can see ways in which it looks unnatural that I didn’t notice before. (Of course, I’m only talking about my personal feelings about the face. I’m not claiming that my opinion is objectively correct, or that anyone else is wrong for finding certain changes more off-putting than I do.)

However, I’ve noticed the way certain features have been made more generic, and I would be happier with the update to this face if we were given something closer in shape to the original versions of these features. Mouth 4 is the most obvious example; originally, it was small and had a different shape than other mouths on this face, but now it’s just a slightly smaller mouth 1, and is larger/wider than it originally was. It looks like the other mouths on this face were also made wider than they originally were, albeit not as much as mouth 4.

The noses on this face have also been changed to look less catlike, with a narrower nose bridge, and an hourglass shape that wasn’t present before (this is mainly visible from the front). This change in particular makes me wonder if the people working on the new faces thought about the intent of the original designs, or if they were just trying to make something “more (conventionally) attractive”.

I wanted to add my thoughts, in part, to point out that there are people in my category, who don’t find their character’s current appearance intolerable but would still be happy to get revised or additional facial features that are a better translation of the original versions. Most of the people who feel like that probably don’t bother to say anything about it, and there might be a lot more of them than one would assume.

https://i.imgur.com/PlhReQa.png

After looking at the picture again, I’m noticing that the chin also looks a bit too sharp, like the nose.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ConantSivrha

The noses on this face have also been changed to look less catlike, with a narrower nose bridge, and an hourglass shape that wasn’t present before (this is mainly visible from the front). This change in particular makes me wonder if the people working on the new faces thought about the intent of the original designs, or if they were just trying to make something “more (conventionally) attractive”.

---

Both these points are honestly the thing that bothers me the most in terms of the miqo'te changes. It really feels like they sanded down any feature that could be written as a more feline one and made them look more generic and human whilst also applying the ideas they think are attractive. I don't mind them adding more of those as an option , rather than completely swapping them out and losing parts that a lot of people found essential for their character's appearance. :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by srell

Character creation screenshots, 6.58 on the left and Benchmark 1.1 on the right
https://i.imgur.com/E75n6nz.png

---

I quoted you because your screenshots really highlight another issue I have with the new mouth: In the before the top lip was lighter in the center, adding more dimension to it. In the after they made it all dark and flat. I would agree that the before needed some tweaking because the lines between the light and dark parts were too harsh, but I wish they had just blended it out better. Now the top lip and bottom lip don't match at all in color anymore, the top lip is way too dark.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GreenLeafy

Both these points are honestly the thing that bothers me the most in terms of the miqo'te changes. It really feels like they sanded down any feature that could be written as a more feline one and made them look more generic and human whilst also applying the ideas they think are attractive. I don't mind them adding more of those as an option , rather than completely swapping them out and losing parts that a lot of people found essential for their character's appearance. :(

---

I've seen a lot of complaints about Viera and Roegadyn noses and some other features being made more generic and human too, so it seems like a theme with this update.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sairaag

I've seen a lot of complaints about Viera and Roegadyn noses and some other features being made more generic and human too, so it seems like a theme with this update.

---

Its genuinely such a shame... Losing so much racial and general individuality is just a baffling direction as a whole. :(

Yeah it's definitely got more Kim-Possible-style lip coloring now. I've gotten used to that in-game already, and am more bothering still by the overall mouth shape, scar color, and low-res cheetah lines. I like the look (even I keep getting the Kim Possible theme song stuck in my head), but I can definitely see why that would bother people and wouldn't be upset if it went back.

Another thing that screenshot shows really well is the difference in eye color- those two images use exactly the same saved character settings. In all of my 7.0 screenshots, I've already Fantasia'd his eyes a shade lighter. I'm honestly kind of baffled by the way they changed the eye color- surely that's something they would have noticed and could adjust? I feel bad for characters who already had eyes at the lightest shade in their color family, if the difference there is as noticeable. They don't have a way to fix it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by srell

Another thing that screenshot shows really well is the difference in eye color- those two images use exactly the same saved character settings. In all of my 7.0 screenshots, I've already Fantasia'd his eyes a shade lighter. I'm honestly kind of baffled by the way they changed the eye color- surely that's something they would have noticed and could adjust? I feel bad for characters who already had eyes at the lightest shade in their color family, if the difference there is as noticeable. They don't have a way to fix it.

---

Sheesh, I noticed the crazy difference in eye color and was close to say something about that too, but then I figured SURELY you must've been using different eye colors between pictures. Welp, add that to the list of complaints then ;/

Eye color is one of the worst offenders. Problem is... when the proper lighting is there, it looks a lot like before but those conditions are not always there. Eye color in the character equipment window and portraits is just awful.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ConantSivrha

The noses on this face have also been changed to look less catlike, with a narrower nose bridge, and an hourglass shape that wasn’t present before (this is mainly visible from the front). This change in particular makes me wonder if the people working on the new faces thought about the intent of the original designs, or if they were just trying to make something “more (conventionally) attractive”.

I wanted to add my thoughts, in part, to point out that there are people in my category, who don’t find their character’s current appearance intolerable but would still be happy to get revised or additional facial features that are a better translation of the original versions. Most of the people who feel like that probably don’t bother to say anything about it, and there might be a lot more of them than one would assume.

https://i.imgur.com/PlhReQa.png

After looking at the picture again, I’m noticing that the chin also looks a bit too sharp, like the nose.

---

I definitely agree about the intent. It doesn't feel like whoever made the model really understood the original and all of the little quirks that made it look the way it does. And about the whole "more (conventionally) attractive" thing, part of the issue for me is that I don't even find my characters attractive anymore. All of the little details they had before was a big part of what made me like them so much in the first place ._.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheCat

I quoted you because your screenshots really highlight another issue I have with the new mouth: In the before the top lip was lighter in the center, adding more dimension to it. In the after they made it all dark and flat. I would agree that the before needed some tweaking because the lines between the light and dark parts were too harsh, but I wish they had just blended it out better. Now the top lip and bottom lip don't match at all in color anymore, the top lip is way too dark.

---

That's a good point. I think you're on to something there.

The funny thing is... the profile view of the mouth is exactly how it was in 6.58 but the front is a bit strange due to how wider they are now. That and the eye color being washed out is what strikes me as the biggest changes to face 1 and mouth 4.

The more cutscenes I watch, the less I like my character's updated face.

This empty-headed expression did a lot to ruin the mood of the cutscene in which it was featured (this is a cutscene associated with the first solo duty, dialogue box cropped out for spoiler prevention). I think it's a combination of the foggy eyes, the new mouth's "neutral" state looking unnaturally stiff and slightly smiley, and the lighting conditions making both of those issues more obvious than they would be otherwise.

https://i.imgur.com/ZWxV8kF.png

That said, the other expressions aren't necessarily better. I've been seeing awkward-looking sharp angles in mouth animations that either weren't present before or weren't noticeable before. I assumed expressions and face animations would be significantly improved by the update, which was a large part of why I was willing to give the new face a chance, but it seems like we got the opposite result in reality.

Yeah, I think the benchmark trailer misrepresented how expressions would look in live game. I remember watching it and thinking "maybe it will be okay after all", only for my Keeper to look lethargic and honestly not very intelligent in key cutscenes.

And speaking of Keepers and their mouths, aren't the fangs still a little weird? They're so far apart now. With the old graphics you could see them quite easily with just the talking animation, now they're less visible even though the mouth is wider.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ConantSivrha

The more cutscenes I watch, the less I like my character's updated face.

This empty-headed expression did a lot to ruin the mood of the cutscene in which it was featured (this is a cutscene associated with the first solo duty, dialogue box cropped out for spoiler prevention). I think it's a combination of the foggy eyes, the new mouth's "neutral" state looking unnaturally stiff and slightly smiley, and the lighting conditions making both of those issues more obvious than they would be otherwise.

https://i.imgur.com/ZWxV8kF.png

That said, the other expressions aren't necessarily better. I've been seeing awkward-looking sharp angles in mouth animations that either weren't present before or weren't noticeable before. I assumed expressions and face animations would be significantly improved by the update, which was a large part of why I was willing to give the new face a chance, but it seems like we got the opposite result in reality.

---

Yeah, I've kept going back too to give it another chance and I keep being let down. Having messed around in photoshop, I think the solution would be to redo the mouth texture, upping the contrast in the eyes, and expanding the black area of the upper eyelid.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sairaag

Yeah, I think the benchmark trailer misrepresented how expressions would look in live game. I remember watching it and thinking "maybe it will be okay after all", only for my Keeper to look lethargic and honestly not very intelligent in key cutscenes.

And speaking of Keepers and their mouths, aren't the fangs still a little weird? They're so far apart now. With the old graphics you could see them quite easily with just the talking animation, now they're less visible even though the mouth is wider.

---

I hadn't noticed that about the fangs, but I'll keep an eye out.

bumping this because please can we get our faces fixed, or at leasttttt fix mouth 4, mouth 4 did not need to be changed it was a smaller mouth and the only not huge mouth, now there just is no option

Someone on the Japanese forums made a good post on the fang placement and shape here.
(I also found a face 3 post here, looks like it might be universal.)

Hadn't even noticed how differently that mouth shape opens now, but yeah, that's what it looks like to me when my Keeper talks. It was only when I started doing deliveries and other side quests that I started seeing my fangs properly again, because they often animate your character smiling while talking. Other than that, cutscenes rarely use mouth animations wide enough. I really hope they adjust the fangs a little more to make them more visible again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CorvoSomnia

bumping this because please can we get our faces fixed, or at leasttttt fix mouth 4, mouth 4 did not need to be changed it was a smaller mouth and the only not huge mouth, now there just is no option

---

The issue with mouth 4 isn't inherent to it, it's caused by the overall change to the lip change which makes mouth 4 appear different when the base mouth is warped. If they fixed the base mouth, the other mouths would be fixed too.

The main issue is the front of the mouth looking different. When looking at it from a profile view, it's the same as before. That and the upper lip which feels a bit off. I don't know if it's the width or the color not being adjusted properly.

I hope they mention face 1 catboy lips on the planned late august announcement