Updated benchmark

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Originally Posted by RhaesDaenys

Most of you all saying 'something feels off' are saying that because thats the biggest difference the lighting makes. The current games lighting is /very/ bad. Now we have proper lighting. Shadows are more accurate and look a lot better. Shadows make things look different.

Its the age old shine a flashlight under your chin to look scary thing.

I also don't get the 'duck lips' complaint on the Au Ra pictures from that one person. Duck lips stick out. Au Ra lips are practically flat against their face in all four options on Face 1.

Some of yall will literally never be happy unless they give up on the graphics update and leave us with old models forever.

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Yup, most of the complaints are total nonsense.

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Originally Posted by Cahlum

Yup, most of the complaints are total nonsense.

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I was with them when they were showing outlines of lips and stuff being different - and that /is/ a problem or was. I don't know because my character has looked perfect before in 6.58, benchmark 1.0 and 1.1. I'm easy to please.

But now they're literally complaining about shadows making things look different - which is exactly what shadows do.

Someone literally said "I don't want to only like my character in certain lighting."

Like... even in 6.58 I only like my character in certain lighting. Thats not a benchmark thing. Thats a FFXIV thing.

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Originally Posted by Aelin_Ashryver

It's up for dowload!

Show you're updated characters! Do you like what's changed?

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https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GPIuD0dX...jpg&name=large

Just as cute, maybe a bit more fluffy!

So far, I have mixed to negative feelings about the new benchmark
I loved my roe in the 1.0 bench, but in 1.1 he's now a lip gloss model and still doesn't have the hellsguard nose

At least, I'm glad that the forum wars regarding the graphics update will not be over :)

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Originally Posted by RhaesDaenys

I was with them when they were showing outlines of lips and stuff being different - and that /is/ a problem or was. I don't know because my character has looked perfect before in 6.58, benchmark 1.0 and 1.1. I'm easy to please.

But now they're literally complaining about shadows making things look different - which is exactly what shadows do.

Someone literally said "I don't want to only like my character in certain lighting."

Like... even in 6.58 I only like my character in certain lighting. Thats not a benchmark thing. Thats a FFXIV thing.

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People had legitimate concern with the 1.0 benchmark we got. For exemple, a bad vertex point on the Elezeen mouth made it extremely weird. Now, They upgraded the texture even further, changed lightning a bit, shadow calculation, etc etc and people get mad. People will always get mad for the slightest reason. Of course, some reason are completely valid, like a neck seam or eyelashes that aren't placed correctly on the eyes, etc... feature that are not done correctly.

I'm pretty satisfied with how my character look now. Looks great, and can't wait to start Dawntrail !

I just find it doesn’t matter what they do people will nitpick and complain… outside of some weird outliers like the person who gained a neck seam… lighting and shaders will literally change how a character looks in certain situations… people wanted a graphics update and in some degree updating features will change aspects… it could literally be the exact same polygons the exact same everything but lighting and shaders can easily make things look different. I suppose most of the people complaining are like gposers in Limsa or something… I really don’t look at my character that much lol

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Originally Posted by RhaesDaenys

Most of you all saying 'something feels off' are saying that because thats the biggest difference the lighting makes. The current games lighting is /very/ bad. Now we have proper lighting. Shadows are more accurate and look a lot better. Shadows make things look different.

Its the age old shine a flashlight under your chin to look scary thing.

I also don't get the 'duck lips' complaint on the Au Ra pictures from that one person. Duck lips stick out. Au Ra lips are practically flat against their face in all four options on Face 1.

Some of yall will literally never be happy unless they give up on the graphics update and leave us with old models forever.

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It's definitely not always the case of lighting, and it would be nice if people stopped trying to discredit people's criticisms. Why are you even here if you're just complaining about people's feedback when that's what the thread is for?

I’m living for the potential explanation of how the “serious” catboi face now being a resting smile is a lighting issue

My sun cat is looking great imo!

https://i.imgur.com/IDI2aDo.png

https://i.gyazo.com/82c50921688f0fe6...ade3316fb6.png

https://i.gyazo.com/f3c17c24b39e4ceb...d439a33a31.jpg


i haven't seen too many fem hyurs, but something about my character just feels scuffed/off now. not sure what it is :( oh well...maybe she'll be cuter in game?

not at home, asked someone to look for me, but while the lighting looks much better one of my biggest concerns is still there. aka face 1 femra still have outright missing scales.

https://i.imgur.com/KrDqui0.png

above is left: current game and right is original benchmark.
below is new benchmark. EXACTLY the same.

https://i.imgur.com/Bim5OMj.png

really was hoping this would be fixed. it's sloppy, and very noticeable if your hair doesn't cover the horns.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

It's definitely not always the case of lighting, and it would be nice if people stopped trying to discredit people's criticisms. Why are you even here if you're just complaining about people's feedback when that's what the thread is for?

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If someone is allowed to make criticisms, others are allowed to discuss the criticisms. I happen to disagree with literally /everyone/ in this thread. I looked closely and all I see are lighting differences now and higher polygon count.

The only legit issue I've seen is another thread showing different shape of a Miqote eye selection.

I even liked the original benchmark.

The reason I'm saying what I am, is because I don't want peoples incessant complaining to impact what I am already happy with. Literally /nothing/ needs to be changed. At all.

Let the expansion come out and see things in motion.

IE : The new lighting and day and night cycle dynamically working over the course of an in game day. I'm willing to bet everyones complaints evaporate when they realize MID DAY LIGHTING is the worst time to take screenshots.

Hrothgar have a few odd issues. Beyond the body seams now showing on the arm fur, their eyes are also rather egregiously glossy and reflective now, even in lighting that isn't directly shining on them. It makes their pupils much harder to distinguish, and the color of the iris way less distinct compared to the last benchmark.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...a6fd2252ebe43&

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...687ca276f9f59&

I'm a bit sad that I kind of prefer the first benchmark for my hrothgar in particular. It's not massive differences, but the new normal maps make my guy look more gaunt at the cheekbones. Hopefully there will still be some changes taken into account, even if we won't be getting a third benchmark prior to release.

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Originally Posted by xirune

I have a lot of thoughts but a big thing I’ve noticed from both a lot of the feedback already coming in here and from my own testing with the new benchmark, is that it seems like they didn’t fix the issues with mouth/lip shapes at all. That’s crazy to me considering that was one of the number one most feedbacked things across races with the first benchmark.

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Yeah I am confused about this as well. My vieras skin looks better and the shadows are obviously better, but her lips still look like they got stung by bees.

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Originally Posted by RhaesDaenys

If someone is allowed to make criticisms, others are allowed to discuss the criticisms. I happen to disagree with literally /everyone/ in this thread. I looked closely and all I see are lighting differences now and higher polygon count.

The only legit issue I've seen is another thread showing different shape of a Miqote eye selection.

I even liked the original benchmark.

The reason I'm saying what I am, is because I don't want peoples incessant complaining to impact what I am already happy with. Literally /nothing/ needs to be changed. At all.

Let the expansion come out and see things in motion.

IE : The new lighting and day and night cycle dynamically working over the course of an in game day. I'm willing to bet everyones complaints evaporate when they realize MID DAY LIGHTING is the worst time to take screenshots.

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“I’m happy so you all need to shut up”

That’s a fantastic opinion that is on a public forum

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Originally Posted by execlinca

not at home, asked someone to look for me, but while the lighting looks much better one of my biggest concerns is still there. aka face 1 femra still have outright missing scales.

https://i.imgur.com/KrDqui0.png

above is left: current game and right is original benchmark.
below is new benchmark. EXACTLY the same.

https://i.imgur.com/Bim5OMj.png

really was hoping this would be fixed. it's sloppy, and very noticeable if your hair doesn't cover the horns.

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Ooof that one does bug me. I didn't even notice that because my hair covers that spot.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

“I’m happy so you all need to shut up”

That’s a fantastic opinion that is on a public forum

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Seems I forgot posting on a public forum that I'm happy with things is forbidden.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

“I’m happy so you all need to shut up”

That’s a fantastic opinion that is on a public forum

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That's not what they said but great job misrepresenting things I guess

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Originally Posted by jihos

https://i.gyazo.com/82c50921688f0fe6...ade3316fb6.png

https://i.gyazo.com/f3c17c24b39e4ceb...d439a33a31.jpg


i haven't seen too many fem hyurs, but something about my character just feels scuffed/off now. not sure what it is :( oh well...maybe she'll be cuter in game?

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Still working on getting screenies for mine (same face) but it doesn't look they changed any of the issues for that face outside of the dead eyes from first benchmark.

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Originally Posted by RhaesDaenys

Seems I forgot posting on a public forum that I'm happy with things is forbidden.

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You can say you are happy

Saying “I don’t want people’s whining running my enjoyment NOTHING NEEDS TO CHANGE AT ALL” isn’t innocently professing your enjoyment and you know it

She looks way too good now! ❤️ I love it!!
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...f22c5c44eb067&

As an aside from the career whiner that's always in these threads....

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Originally Posted by Aelin_Ashryver

My sun cat is looking great imo!

https://i.imgur.com/IDI2aDo.png

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I really like the colours you gave your character. It's really cute.

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Originally Posted by RhaesDaenys

Most of you all saying 'something feels off' are saying that because thats the biggest difference the lighting makes. The current games lighting is /very/ bad. Now we have proper lighting. Shadows are more accurate and look a lot better. Shadows make things look different.

Its the age old shine a flashlight under your chin to look scary thing.

I also don't get the 'duck lips' complaint on the Au Ra pictures from that one person. Duck lips stick out. Au Ra lips are practically flat against their face in all four options on Face 1.

Some of yall will literally never be happy unless they give up on the graphics update and leave us with old models forever.

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My character looks completely washed out in the upgrade also her jawline appears completely different, I had both characters face the light as thats the best way to get the most accurate look for your character but bar the hair being more details the upgrade looks like a downgrade to me and it was no where near this bad in the first itiration of the benchmark as I was content with the changes.

https://i.imgur.com/PoHgx4Z.png
Lalafell face 4 Benchmark/Current

They stole my nose! I'm disappointed this wasn't something that was fixed with the update, the nose smudge is barely visible now.

Edit: this seems to only be an issue with Dunesfolk, Plainsfolk have their nose back...

Overall I think the updated benchmark is a huge improvement and the lighting in the different zones looks so much better. (Thank you devs for all your hard work!)

There are a couple things that still bug me, though...

- It seems like in making the eyebrows softer and higher res, they also thinned and lightened them on some face models. I would really like it if they reconsidered that, eyebrows are one of the really distinct parts of a face design, and I liked the stronger brows the way they were...
https://i.gyazo.com/7ec02b074c05fd07...3faeb8bf42.jpghttps://i.gyazo.com/4cfed694a1643f37...1845761e42.jpg

(...also the shadows from the headband on that hairstyle are awkward. I know they're still tuning that, so, uh, please reconsider that one too >_>)
- It also seems like the darkest hair shades have been lightened. In particular black hair is just kind of charcoal grey now, and the hair has lost its shine. I could probably get used to hair being less shiny, I'm on the fence about that, but I do really want the actual color to stay the same.
https://i.gyazo.com/62bcd237a2f73156...9c9ac4c8bc.jpghttps://i.gyazo.com/cf42162c4d74f75d...513993ae65.jpg

(...my god, you can see her face so much better at night now though. I'm so pleased about that part.)
So yeah please don't nerf dark hair/brows D:

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Originally Posted by Kathryn

My character looks completely washed out in the upgrade also her jawline appears completely different, I had both characters face the light as thats the best way to get the most accurate look for your character but bar the hair being more details the upgrade looks like a downgrade to me and it was no where near this bad in the first itiration of the benchmark as I was content with the changes.

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Based on your avatar, it looks like you're using Au Ra face 1 like me. I looked at all the jaw types and compared side by side on two monitors... they're the exact same shape, just more rounded instead of boxy. The thing you're noticing is now instead of a weird glow around the edges, shadows are more soft, giving the illusion that the face is more full or thinner than it is.

I really want to like the new changes, everything is better than the old look, but I really can't get over how much my face 3 Miqo'te looks like she had a bad face lift in the lower half of her face as soon as she isn't in shadow. It looks like her mouth is squished inwards or something and the lighting react with a high contrast in light and shadow to make it more obvious.
It's similar in face 2, although a little bit less bad. Face 1 and 4 seem fine in comparison.
That issue was already visible in the last benchmark but there it seemed to be limited to heavy high contrast light. Her mouth still looks a bit awkwardly "pinched" in the shadows now, too. (Also checked the benchmark trailer, it's similar there.)

Here is a screenshot from the new Benchmark in two different light situations. Will edit in a screenshot from the current game in a few minutes for comparison.

https://imgur.com/8WINmm4l.jpg

https://imgur.com/okZtMyTl.jpg

I know the lighting situation at the lower half of her face was always not exactly ideal, but this is, uh, harder to ignore.

I don't know how this could be fixed, I suppose it would require more adjustments to these super soft pinched corners of her mouth and who knows what else this might effect in terms of emotes and stuff, but if there is anything that can be done about this, I'd appreciate it. Switching faces wouldn't help because this issue exists on almost all other faces, and it would also come at the loss of her face markings and all. I'd prefer avoiding this. :(

Edit: Added new screenshot. All screenshots (benchmark and game) were made at a gamma rate around 20-ish.

I think people have the right to complain, since the game is really very old and many players have gotten used to their characters.
As artist, I know that sometimes a person wants really small edits in a portrait, so that they say "yes, this is my face".

And it's not about the updated lighting, but about how many details of the characters have really changed in a game where a small shadow under the eyes or a barely noticeable choice of iris size is considered as Fantasia-worthy character edit.

They still have time to fix some things, it's mostly about texture edits and shapes edits.

https://i.imgur.com/cBCMF5p.jpeg
There seems to be an issue with the hair on the Miqo'te, the hairstyle 1 here you can see, it looks like someone has not made the shading look natural like the other hairstyles in the picture, it looks more like grey streaks rather than the light on the hair making it look lighter.

I would gather this seems to be a bug with the lighting not working correctly

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

I'm crying lmao ;;

I mean... I guess that is exactly the reason behind their design choice. After all, when 6.0 came out conceiving face 7 middie, talks revolving around "why they just won't give face 5 the stubble option" wasn't uncommon. Which is... reasonable imho, considering today's face 7 is just "face 5 but stubble turned on"-face.

But I really really, REALLY wish if this is the choice they're sticking with, at the very least, make that stubble from face 7 an option on one of face 5 facial feature. Lo behold, you get to have stubble as a 20-30 y.o AND 50 y.o.

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See the thing is, they basically "fixed" the cheeks on face 5 now which makes him look even younger. Funnily enough, the face 5 in the og bench was the closest to the current which is gone now lol. I honestly cannot even tell why he looks like his personality changed... I feel like it's the eyes but I cannot point it out. Maybe it's the added realism to the style.

It's especially visible on the wide shot


Current --> Bench OG --> Bench v11

https://i.postimg.cc/Xq3LQmV9/face5mid.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/3rCnd8B1/face7mid.jpg

current --> bench v11
https://i.postimg.cc/Y033VR9Z/face7mid-Wideview.jpg


I get that it looks like an upgrade to most people so it's fine as it is but I'll just take the opportunity to start a new character arc with 7.0 (unless I feel like going back in time to look like a brand new adventurer again with face 5 haha)

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Originally Posted by Doozer

As an aside from the career whiner that's always in these threads....



I really like the colours you gave your character. It's really cute.

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Thank youu, I always get so giddy looking at mine and others characters. I love threads for people to show what they have made for that reason.

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Originally Posted by Aelin_Ashryver

Thank youu, I always get so giddy looking at mine and others characters. I love threads for people to show what they have made for that reason.

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It's definitely nice seeing some variety instead of just solid white/black hair. I used to have highlights in mine but the colour splotched on the ear tips didn't work for me so I just went with my natural colour instead. The character in your forum profile also has really nice colouring.

We all must band together and reclaim normal looking corners-of-the-mouth for certain Miqo'te and Au'ra faces

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Originally Posted by Soxforrow

We all must band together and reclaim normal looking corners-of-the-mouth for certain Miqo'te and Au'ra faces

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Seriously, yes. It looks so bad as soon as they hit any light.

I swear all the criticism i read in here boils down to "Return to arr 2.0 graphics".

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Originally Posted by Minali

I really want to like the new changes, everything is better than the old look, but I really can't get over how much my face 3 Miqo'te looks like she had a bad face lift in the lower half of her face as soon as she isn't in shadow. It looks like her mouth is squished inwards or something and the lighting react with a high contrast in light and shadow to make it more obvious.
It's similar in face 2, although a little bit less bad. Face 1 and 4 seem fine in comparison.
That issue was already visible in the last benchmark but there it seemed to be limited to heavy high contrast light. Her mouth still looks a bit awkwardly "pinched" in the shadows now, too. (Also checked the benchmark trailer, it's similar there.)

Here is a screenshot from the new Benchmark in two different light situations. Will edit in a screenshot from the current game in a few minutes for comparison.

https://imgur.com/8WINmm4l.jpg

I know the lighting situation at the lower half of her face was always not exactly ideal, but this is, uh, harder to ignore.

I don't know how this could be fixed, I suppose it would require more adjustments to these pinched corners on her mouth and who knows what else this might effect in terms of emotes and stuff, but if there is anything that can be done about this, I'd appreciate it. Switching faces would make her look a lot less like herself and also mean losing her markings. I'd prefer avoiding this. :(

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THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING the corners of the mouth are completely off for our face now!

https://i.imgur.com/r6F7Rmc.png

Trying to argue with or convince people that their characters are fine by your standards is about as cringe as people jumping to the defense of an expansion because someone said they didn't like it, imo.

Change sucks, but we're talking about characters people have been potentially playing for a decade, it's okay to nitpick, it's okay to vent.

It's a nice improvement over the first benchmark, but my Viera (face 4) still looks odd compared to the original.
https://i.imgur.com/UmxpiVp.png
I absolutely love her original lips, but now the soft cupid's bow is quite harsh and the lipstick looks too filled in the corners. The nose is also too wide compared to before but at least I can fix that with the fantasia.

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Originally Posted by BeoCat

I swear all the criticism i read in here boils down to "Return to arr 2.0 graphics".

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Actually I just want my normal lipshape back. The rest is acceptable. So no, not everyone is miserable. But my characters mouth has gone from a defined cupids bow to pouty lips that look like they have been stung by bees and I have no option to switch to. Will I get used to it? Most likely not. Am I ok with using a fantasia? Yes, somewhat. Is this a feedback thread? Yes it is.

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Originally Posted by AstridD

It's a nice improvement over the first benchmark, but my Viera (face 4) still looks odd compared to the original.
https://i.imgur.com/UmxpiVp.png
I absolutely love her original lips, but now the soft cupid's bow is quite harsh and the lipstick looks too filled in the corners. The nose is also too wide compared to before but at least I can fix that with the fantasia.

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Yeah the nose makes her face look flat and wide. I am also not happy with the mouthchanges still being there. The cupids bow being almost erased is really bad.