Scholar's Identity Transformation

To paraphrase Yoshi-P from EW release "We didn't really know what to do with Scholar...."

To add my 2 cents, I don't want SCH to look like a nun with chicken wings, please add an option to disable that transform.

I would just add that it would be a good idea to add that option to any transform ability, it can't be that difficult.

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Originally Posted by hynaku

After reading Japanese forum it looks like they don't like the transformation ether. Sure, glad I don't play Scholar because I sure don't want to transform into an angel.

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I'm glad to hear this, as they are more willing to listen to jp players

This is really a terrible left turn for SCH. Seraph was totally fine as "the next level summon" after fairies, but it should never have been interpreted as a central feature of an academic/tactician summoner job.

As far as I am concerned, Seraph should have been just an intermediate step in Scholar's progression. Scholar should have progressed past Seraph to Alexander/Eden summons/abilities. THAT feels techy/academic. THAT feels strategic. THAT feels like a counterpoint to SMN.

This...this is embarrassingly stupid and off-brand. They need to take it all away and fire whoever let this happen.

I'll wait and see what the seraph form looks like, since we only see it from behind. But I do agree that the colors we see seem off. What I wanna know is if SCH is getting some of the things people have asked for. Like another attack option, I swear every other healer gets more and more, but not SCH. And finally get an oGCD shield. Instead we are getting Miasma 2 back on a 120sec CD, yay? Why can't they allow us to spread our DoT with Deployment Tactics, finally? So many options "obvious" options that you wonder why hasn't it been done yet.

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Originally Posted by rawker

Also, male characters, people who do not like to become fancy fairies, people who were drawn to the militaristic theme going on since ARR to a more Admiral Stukov looking, minus the ribbons. More of that

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Look buddy if you play a healer job with a male character then you only have yourself to blame.

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Originally Posted by dwodmots

Look buddy if you play a healer job with a male character then you only have yourself to blame.

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Dammit Jim, I'm a Chirurgen! Lol

Though it is funny that the 3 main healers in the game are male.

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Originally Posted by dwodmots

Look buddy if you play a healer job with a male character then you only have yourself to blame.

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Talk about having preferences and getting blamed for it. Now let's reverse that, shall we? Would you still be able to say the same?

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Originally Posted by dwodmots

Look buddy if you play a healer job with a male character then you only have yourself to blame.

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wdym?.....

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Originally Posted by Eloah

I'll wait and see what the seraph form looks like, since we only see it from behind.

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Well, I'm playing Scholar with a Miqo'te and considering the Scholar character from the trailer, who was also a Miqo'te, lost her ears and tail in the process and got a cheap wing fashion item slapped on the back, I'm not sure seeing how her transformed front could possibly look like to make up for this.

https://i.imgur.com/qMWSvKn.png

Scholar is the only healer I play because they felt least like a 'mage' and enjoyed the war tactician fantasy. And I can't stand the overabundance of wings that's creeped its way in XIV (not knocking ya if you like it. Wear them if you want, but don't force it on a class that it seems out of place for). This update dulled any hype I had for changes with Scholar in the expansion. I still like the playstyle and will still play as my main healer, but really not enjoying where SE is taking the aesthetics.

Another SCH chiming in that our ultimate level 100 form should have been turning into Feo Ul.

Scholar ate Seraph and got the reaper enshroud that was hardly explained. Did your voidsent eat the voidsent that you fought at the end?

If the spell is related to Seraph which looks alittle more like an angel than a fairy, I guess I can accept it. I don't want fairy wings though- I'm not a huge fan of transforming into one, leave that for BLU. If you're going to complain about identity, I'd rather them return to the war tactician math nerd scholar with a book.

I'm not entirely against it, though if it was really related to Seraph, then I wish the transformation would look abit more like her than like 'robe with wings'.

i hate the transformation of sch from battle tactician to fairy outfit from spirit halloween. we have plenty of angelic/feathered outfits to pick from if we choose to do so, this feels entirely unnecessary and just tacked on.

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Originally Posted by Minali

Well, I'm playing Scholar with a Miqo'te and considering the Scholar character from the trailer, who was also a Miqo'te, lost her ears and tail in the process and got a cheap wing fashion item slapped on the back, I'm not sure seeing how her transformed front could possibly look like to make up for this.

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I just rewatched the video so I could refresh my memory of the form. The tail disappearing makes some sense, as it could be seen as just being under the robe. There are a lot of outfits where including the tail seems odd, like the mascot outfits, but I digress. The ears being gone though does seem odd. It looks like some sorta hat and Veil is placed on the head, but why would that make the ears go away? The devs do a good job with most things, but sometimes I question their choices.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

I just rewatched the video so I could refresh my memory of the form. The tail disappearing makes some sense, as it could be seen as just being under the robe. There are a lot of outfits where including the tail seems odd, like the mascot outfits, but I digress. The ears being gone though does seem odd. It looks like some sorta hat and Veil is placed on the head, but why would that make the ears go away? The devs do a good job with most things, but sometimes I question their choices.

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I suppose on a technical level it's very similar to Reaper's Enshroud, which seems to replace the player model with one generic design, thereby removing any racial traits as long as the skill is active.

Love the idea, but for gods sake change the look of it pleSe square its so ugly :( :( :(

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Originally Posted by Rikizza

Love the idea, but for gods sake change the look of it pleSe square its so ugly :( :( :(

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Why couldn't we turn into Titania. People would've loved that.

I personally detests any skills that forcefully replaces your avatar like RPR's enshroud. Much more so if they forces you to give up racial traits.

My proposed change was to either enable an on/off toggle to that, OR, have them rip off the existing fae glyph from one of HW relic weapon's VFX: Hyperconductive Tetrabiblos. Slap a pair of that glyph on our character's rear while the action is active and you've fashioned a pseudo, magical fae wings to look at. Maybe add a few sparkling, trailing particles that look like fairy dust.

I'd very much rather to keep my character's glam at all times, thank you.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

Why couldn't we turn into Titania. People would've loved that.

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Still doesn't make sense. Upgrading our Fairy to a Titania form, on the other hand I'd accept. But I hate the idea of turning into a nun to heal more, I would have HATED wearing fairy wings and a long dress as a hrothgar male.

I hate the Titania idea as much as the WHM nun dress because in every skill SCH has ever had they have never blended the fairy into the SCH, they have always sat as two distinct halves

If people want a Titania seraph glam then go ahead but the SCH themselves should never get weird fairy augmentations because that’s not what the SCH itself is

I don't like the transformation either. I didn't mind it too much with Reaper, but I really hope that they don't continue forward with these transformations that override our glamours.

Scholar is my favorite class to play, and a large part of why I enjoy it so much is because of its unique visual aesthetics. As such, I have a lot of opinions about the new angel transformation. I want to explain why I believe that the transformation feels so off, but I have so much to say that I actually had to split my ramblings into two posts, so here is the first part:



This job has two overarching themes: the scholar themself, who is an academic military tactician, and their adorable fairy summon. These two themes have aesthetics that are very contrary to one another, but the job makes them feel cohesive by treating them as separate entitles rather than trying to mash them together. On their own, the scholar has abilities/actions that focus mainly on offense, mitigation, and shielding, but they lack in straight-up healing. To cover this weakness, they summon a fairy who acts as an aid. The scholar then uses their military tactics to guide their fairy on the battlefield to heal their allies. The visual aesthetics of the attacks/abilities within the job follows this separation of concepts, with the scholar's direct actions (Broil, Art of War, Chain Stratagem, etc.) having very sharp, geometric visual effects to fit the military tactician aesthetic, and the fairy-based actions (Fey Illumination, Whispering Dawn, Fey Blessing, etc.) having soft and whimsical fae and butterfly themed visual effects to fit the fairy aesthetic.



In my opinion, the contrast between these two themes is a major part of what makes the job so visually interesting and fun to play, so adding in a third largely unrelated theme/aesthetic in the form of an angel garb feels very jarring -- especially when it appears to completely overwrite your glam AND your character's features (in the job action preview, the Miqo’te scholar loses their tail once they transform).



This type of transformation ability worked very well for reaper because the voidsent that you transform into during enshroud is already the main aspect/theme of the job, and it is visually present within other job actions (Gluttony, Unveiled Gibbet, Grim Swathe). While scholar technically does have an angel-themed ability in the form of Seraph, it is only present in a single action rather being an overarching theme like reaper's voidsent. Not to mention, while Seraph may be an angel, they still look very similar to the actual fairy summons. Seraph has the same dainty figure, pastel color pallet, and glowing body that Eos and Selene have. This a stark contrast to the golden and white color pallet and holy, church-like aesthetic of the angel transformation. If the design team really wanted to lean into an angel aesthetic, they should have at least made the transformation look more like Seraph and less like a cheap party city costume. In fact, the whole outfit seems to share way more design motifs with Sin-Eaters than it does Seraph.



(Continued in second post)

Here’s the second part of my ramblings about the new transformation:



The disparity in the visuals of Seraph and the visuals of the angel transformation leads me to my next point. In my opinion, the angel garb looks very tacky. I know we've only seen the back of the transformation so far, but from what has been shown, I think it looks garish. In particular, I think the colors are gaudy and the wings look very small and stiff. As previously mentioned, the colors don’t match Seraph or either of the other fairy summons. The wings lack the movement and visual intrigue of Eos/Selene/Seraph's wings, or even that of White Mage's Temprance wings -- which contributes to giving it a cheap costume feeling. It's also super disappointing that the transformation appears to completely overwrite your glamour with very traditional White Mage-esque robes. Many people pick to play Scholar because it has some of the most unique and distinct job-exclusive gear, especially compared to other healers and casters, so the transformation's boring attire is frustrating.



This job has always kept the theming and visual effects of the individual scholar and their fairy separate, which is a major part of what allows the job’s overall aesthetic to work so well. Despite this, I think that an action/ability that temporarily combines the different visual themes/aesthetics of the scholar and their fairy friend into one entity could could be very interesting; however, the angelic transformation completely misses the mark. Others have brought up using Feo Ul/Titania as a base for a similar transformation, which personally, I would really enjoy. Feo Ul may not be related to scholar lore, but they share a strong connection to the player AND fit the same aesthetics as the scholar’s fairy (and also, I just really miss our beloved branch and would love to see them again). I also saw this reddit post (https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/s/bYWl8gguMY) by u/morganasfingernail which shares their amazing concept art for alternatives to the new transformation ability. Personally, “Altruism” is my favorite, but I think that all 4 of these concepts are incredibly well designed and would fit into scholar’s kit much better than what we have currently seen.



I think that many scholar players would be happier with the new ability if it was either changed to be visually fairy themed instead of angel themed (such as being Feo Ul themed, or at the very least actually looking like Seraph) OR if it was changed so that it does not completely overwrite the player’s glamour and character but rather adds new visual effects on top of the player’s character (such as the concepts u/morganasfingernail shared on reddit). While I do really appreciate the hard work of S.E and all the game developers, I hope they are open to taking feedback on job designs, as the current development for Scholar (as well as several other jobs) feels a bit directionless.

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Originally Posted by dwodmots

Look buddy if you play a healer job with a male character then you only have yourself to blame.

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Male characters shouldn't play healers now? If by that logic u don't play ta- oh I see. Rules for thee and not me

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

I hate the Titania idea as much as the WHM nun dress because in every skill SCH has ever had they have never blended the fairy into the SCH, they have always sat as two distinct halves

If people want a Titania seraph glam then go ahead but the SCH themselves should never get weird fairy augmentations because that’s not what the SCH itself is

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An engineer wouldn't transform into a slide rule. Why should a scholar transform into something tangentially related to magic geometry that it's fueling itself? Even summoner LB3 only gives bahamut wings and that's the limit break.
Titania isn't even the same as selene/eos, it's explicitly a dead child's soul.

edit: has anyone brought up the idea that seraphism's whm cosplay is a lightningrod to distract from the fact that they seem to have once again given sage what scholars have been asking for since its removal?

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Originally Posted by fulminating

edit: has anyone brought up the idea that seraphism's whm cosplay is a lightningrod to distract from the fact that they seem to have once again given sage what scholars have been asking for since its removal?

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It kinda is, but let's not forget we're talking about healers : no way it will be interesting.
Anyway, BRD got back their buff songs after 2 expansions of DNC having stolen the buff thing, so I guess SGE will be privileged till 8.0 ; then it will get the same slop as every healer ; might as well enjoy it while it lasts I guess

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AG26Io...c2Ugd2FsbHM%3D

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Originally Posted by fulminating

An engineer wouldn't transform into a slide rule. Why should a scholar transform into something tangentially related to magic geometry that it's fueling itself? Even summoner LB3 only gives bahamut wings and that's the limit break.
Titania isn't even the same as selene/eos, it's explicitly a dead child's soul.

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It's just as easy to ask, "why not?" It shouldn't have to be said that an engineer and a healing class in an online game aren't even remotely related. Unless I am misunderstanding what you're saying here?

As for Titania, the name and the form they take is heavily inspired by Shakespeare's play 'A Midsummer Night's Dream', in which Titania is the queen of the faeries. While officially a remnant of the fallen pixie king of Il Mheg, a SCH taking this form, particularly the WoL who bested the king in combat makes a hell of a lot more sense than the angelic form we're given. Titania was also well received in regards to her concept art and design, so it shouldn't come as any surprise that players would love to have her glamour. We were cut a bit short with the online store version of it.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

As for Titania, the name and the form they take is heavily inspired by Shakespeare's play 'A Midsummer Night's Dream', in which Titania is the queen of the faeries. While officially a remnant of the fallen pixie king of Il Mheg, a SCH taking this form, particularly the WoL who bested the king in combat makes a hell of a lot more sense than the angelic form we're given. Titania was also well received in regards to her concept art and design, so it shouldn't come as any surprise that players would love to have her glamour. We were cut a bit short with the online store version of it.

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Neither makes sense. Scholar's arcane Faeries and Norvrandt's Fae Folk have absolutely nothing to do with each other outside of the name.

Repeating my thoughts from another thread about this that fell off a few days ago, since feedback seems to be piling up in this one:

Scholar is a fairy job, and I love it for that. I am not interested in, and would very much prefer not to have, angel theming. To be clear, I don't mind the transformation aspect, but I would like it to be distinctly about Il Mheg-type (i.e. fairy) aesthetics, for example, and not something that is trending toward sin eater.

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Originally Posted by Miralyth

Repeating my thoughts from another thread about this that fell off a few days ago, since feedback seems to be piling up in this one:

Scholar is a fairy job, and I love it for that. I am not interested in, and would very much prefer not to have, angel theming. To be clear, I don't mind the transformation aspect, but I would like it to be distinctly about Il Mheg-type (i.e. fairy) aesthetics, for example, and not something that is trending toward sin eater.

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Il Mheg is the unrelated but similarly named pixies, not fairies. Aloalo island has statice, which is about as close as we've seen but still a bit distinct.

TLDR version:

Just to be clear... these fairies come from the job crystal. That is why Arcanists, having the capability of materializing Carbuncles out of crystals (Topaz, Emerald, etc), were able to do so with ease. These fairies also act as memory cards where they have the memories of their previous wielders. That's also how we were able to unlock our actions. Basically, you are still an Arcanist but using the spells of scholars before you. We were merely borrowing those spells.

The SCH crystal the WoL wields was originally owned by Surito Carito, before transforming into a Tonberry due to a curse, and the name of the fairy was Lily. Lily had 2 aspects, Eos and Selene. And due to the curse, he can no longer attune to the crystal hence he entrusted his job crystal to us.

end of TLDR.

Scholars are not fairy healers. They are not slaves to the fairies. These fairies are tools used by the scholars since they were military strategists so they may have employed the divide and conquer strategy of having a delegated entity to do all the healing for them so they can focus on the strategic aspects of their spell casting.

Edit.. with that lore alone, the possibility of a tank job branching off from Arcanist is a possibility they didn't even bother exploring.

Edit.. again.. That is why I am having difficulties trying to fit the lore-breaking transformation and the ability to summon Seraph without a job stone. Some can argue that Seraph is Lily's Trance, like how Mog became Madeen in FF9. We all know what happened to Mog after transforming, that's why we got the accessory Ribbon. Enough tangent... Should Seraph be Lily's trance, then who's the entity showing up in SCH's LB3? See what happens when the lore is discontinued? This mess happens.

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Originally Posted by fulminating

Il Mheg is the unrelated but similarly named pixies, not fairies. Aloalo island has statice, which is about as close as we've seen but still a bit distinct.

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To be honest, there is the actual possibility for it. These scholars of Nym bound and controlled fairies and have relegated the healing responsibilities to them. Though that means that we need another pokeball... I mean crystal to where we can bind that new fairy.. In fact, it is not limited to fairies. The lore did not specify that only fairies can be bound.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

It's just as easy to ask, "why not?" It shouldn't have to be said that an engineer and a healing class in an online game aren't even remotely related. Unless I am misunderstanding what you're saying here?

As for Titania, the name and the form they take is heavily inspired by Shakespeare's play 'A Midsummer Night's Dream', in which Titania is the queen of the faeries. While officially a remnant of the fallen pixie king of Il Mheg, a SCH taking this form, particularly the WoL who bested the king in combat makes a hell of a lot more sense than the angelic form we're given. Titania was also well received in regards to her concept art and design, so it shouldn't come as any surprise that players would love to have her glamour. We were cut a bit short with the online store version of it.

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The only thing against that..,
Is the fact all these things are different, of origin.

Pixies =/= Fairies =/= Angel's. But there Is alot of overlap.

For example, Bahamut simply could of had tied to Coils, or 1.0

But neither are used as reference as to WHY SMN has access to them.

So does WHMs access to Holy Naming(of a few skills)

When it's just Light Aspected Aether, with hits of nature. (Due to their Conjurer Roots, and Padjali Connection to The Elementals.)

It really is just player putting their own view on it.

But if you really do want to Link Fairies to Pixies. The leap is just as much to Angel's.

Since Pixies originate from completely different source to our Eos/Selenes Origin.

[Like said on other posts:

Pixie Mischief, Fairy Wisdom(of Nym), Angel(ic) Knowledge

Nothing bars any of these, but Having A reference to Higher Knowledge Befits more, just like Seraph Evolution. and Nothing Denies future Evolution of Seraphism]

With Reaper, while the forced glam is mostly a plain black robe it is somewhat obfuscated by the red flame effects. And further obfuscated by being a melee DPS that's twirling around doing attacks with big effects pretty much the whole time you're using it. You kinda just look like a burning shadow. If you never used it out of combat and zoomed in to look at yourself you probably wouldn't notice it removing racial characteristics or looking kinda plain.

Healers on the other hand tend to stand still a lot and their skills don't cover up their own bodies, and Seraphism doesn't seem to have a big effect on it, maybe just a slight glow. So it's going to be much easier to notice that it just looks like plain robes.

When people asked for fairy fusion i always thought that they wanned something like Yuno from Black Clover.

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Originally Posted by SylvAlternate

Neither makes sense. Scholar's arcane Faeries and Norvrandt's Fae Folk have absolutely nothing to do with each other outside of the name.

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You're right. They don't. But I never said they did have anything to do with each other. All I did was point out why it makes more sense for the SCH to transform into a faerie opposed to an angel if this is the decision the dev team has gone with, and I also pointed out the reference to Titania from Shakespeare's play, whom is a faerie. The fact of the matter is the transformation will be a thing come 7.0 whether you like it or not, so given the choice between a faerie or angelic form, which would you choose? And I really don't want to hear about the transformation being based on a military tactician of Nym. The SCH already IS this. Transforming into what they already are makes even less sense than the angel. Feel free to glamour any of the AF choices that are themed this way and run with it. There's nothing to stop anyone who wishes to have this appearance.

Appearing like Titania is just a suggestion. That is all it is. No connection is needed. The transformation can take the appearance of anything related to faeries. The reason why I brought up Titania specifically is due to the WoL rightful place as the king of Il Mheg. However, I am already aware that this doesn't really make sense because in order for the WoL to take the seat, they have to shed their mortal form. It's more just wishful thinking, which I am allowed to do last I checked.

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Originally Posted by rawker

TLDR version:

Just to be clear... these fairies come from the job crystal. That is why Arcanists, having the capability of materializing Carbuncles out of crystals (Topaz, Emerald, etc), were able to do so with ease. These fairies also act as memory cards where they have the memories of their previous wielders. That's also how we were able to unlock our actions. Basically, you are still an Arcanist but using the spells of scholars before you. We were merely borrowing those spells.

The SCH crystal the WoL wields was originally owned by Surito Carito, before transforming into a Tonberry due to a curse, and the name of the fairy was Lily. Lily had 2 aspects, Eos and Selene. And due to the curse, he can no longer attune to the crystal hence he entrusted his job crystal to us.

end of TLDR.

Scholars are not fairy healers. They are not slaves to the fairies. These fairies are tools used by the scholars since they were military strategists so they may have employed the divide and conquer strategy of having a delegated entity to do all the healing for them so they can focus on the strategic aspects of their spell casting.

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Well said. However, you have missed the part where Lily has become sentient for unknown reasons. She is no longer a tool, she is a companion to the WoL. It's what inspired the poem I wrote in my sig. Soulstones in general are memory cards. Passing on abilities from one wielder to the next is how they work across all jobs. This is completely unrelated to the faeries contained within the soulstones of SCHs. However, they do retain memories of their previous wielders, which partially explains why Lily recognizes Surito. However, iirc she shouldn't be able to because of the tonberry curse, but she does because she is actually a living being.

The transformation as we see it in the job actions trailer is not directly linked to Lily. She remains on the field for the duration the SCH takes on this form. She only leaves when Seraph is summoned. There is no pact between the two like with RPR and their voidscent. They are not a slave to their faerie, and their faerie is not a slave to them. The SCH simply transforms, which I pointed out previously is more of an apotheosis than anything. The faerie aspect of SCH is every bit a part of their lore as being a military tactician of Nym. To dismiss either is completely erroneous.

I'm now going to make a statement that i might regret mentioning.... these fairies were... erm... enslaved as they were bound and controlled by scholars. I will not be surprised that they still have sentience or morality in them. It was never mentioned if they were stripped off their sentience to make it easier to control them... may even be implied though but without concrete proof, i am just pulling things from thin air. Let's just say that the fairies played along.

For all intents and purposes, they may not even be limited to controlling faes should the need arise.

Wtf is happening with the dt job actions lol
devs had some mushrooms and were like yeah this looks epic lets just turn every player into an angel regardless of their character sex? lol