This has got to be one of the worst mmorpg community to exist

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Originally Posted by strawberrycake

Eden Tier 2, Casually was lvling my SCH, told a guy about how they should use rampart and TBN during pulls, said it in the nicest way possible as the 3 mobs per pack were nuking them, literally. I was a tank main that tier and was oh snap neat a new DRK, and their BRD friend got so pissy with me, I dropped it cuz I just laugh at white knights like that and got a warning from a gm. I have no reason to lie if I was nice or not as I have zero problems telling people their idiots in this game, but that situation really made me not wanna help a lot of new players when I saw em after that.

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Why do I get the feeling it wasn't "in the nicest way possible"?

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

Why do I get the feeling it wasn't "in the nicest way possible"?

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Because XIV players love to look at any situation where the person on the receiving end of advice isn't toxic and creates a narrative that all sprouts are benevolent beings that can do no wrong.They also love to act like the people who are GMs always do their jobs right when we have several or more posts on these said forums proving they screw up just like anyone else and make bad calls. That being said if you'd like to uphold that narrative and act like I am in fact a bad actor you're more then welcome to. No skin off my nose.

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

Why do I get the feeling it wasn't "in the nicest way possible"?

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If you look at the TalesfromDF subreddit a person can give the plainest advice and the person on the receiving end will become a shrieking pissbaby. It's good entertainment for me at least.

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Originally Posted by Mosha

If you look at the TalesfromDF subreddit a person can give the plainest advice and the person on the receiving end will become a shrieking pissbaby. It's good entertainment for me at least.

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I have no doubt that people have reacted poorly to advice, even kind advice, but I'm willing to be it's very rare, and most instances of people giving advice, either is pointless ("please heal", "take aggro") or needlessly aggressive. I've had many tanks not turn on tank stance, and a single "stance? :)" has never had someone go off on me. That said, I also don't bother chatting with teammates that are obviously a bit on edge, because I read the room and realize there's no point, they're not looking for advice. Just finish the instance and move on.

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Originally Posted by Mosha

If you look at the TalesfromDF subreddit a person can give the plainest advice and the person on the receiving end will become a shrieking pissbaby. It's good entertainment for me at least.

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This gave me flash backs to when I got told I was toxic for asking someone to politely use their job stone once.

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Originally Posted by strawberrycake

Because XIV players love to look at any situation where the person on the receiving end of advice isn't toxic and creates a narrative that all sprouts are benevolent beings that can do no wrong.

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I really don't believe that sprouts are trying to be toxic. They are new; the world is confusing to them and they don't necessarily play to be "good" but to enjoy the story (for example, some youtubers will go through the MSQ then move onto the next FF game).

What is important to understand is that they don't know you. You are a stranger to them. They don't know your advice is well-intentioned, so their default assumption is going to be that you're being rude. Especially if it's the very first thing you say to them and you blurt it out, bereft of context.

If the first things you said to them were introducing yourself and talking about the meaning of life while waiting for the healer to get back from AFK, maybe they'd trust you, but if the first thing you say is "use this, use that", barking orders at them, it's not a good first impression. And that is how most people do it in my experience, unfortunately.

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They also love to act like the people who are GMs always do their jobs right when we have several or more posts on these said forums proving they screw up just like anyone else and make bad calls.

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Well even the time there was 100 page forum post over PF, the fact is that it was the result of a player reporting those PFs and they generally act on reports, which explains why it was inconsistent. If it's not reported they don't actually do anything about it. So it wasn't quite an error by the GM but rather that players demanded a bit of an internal policy shift. Most likely they had not had someone report PFs much before.

That said, GMs do have to act on a degree of interpretation of their rules and guidelines and the situation, which might not always come out the same.

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That being said if you'd like to uphold that narrative and act like I am in fact a bad actor you're more then welcome to.

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I don't think most people giving the advice are trying to be a bad actor, it's just that giving the advice in the first place is often not going to work out, because it comes across as blurting it out to a stranger and this first impression acts as a confirmation bias; confirmation of their fear that someone in the dungeon will be toxic.

You basically have to find a way to dispel that fear before blurting out advice and that's difficult to do while fighting enemies, so unless someone goes AFK or stops to chat, it often doesn't work out very well to give advice.

Was on twitter (Or X if ya nasty) a while back, stated only play XIV for the story and had like, 30 notifications in 30 mins all about XIV....or how "You doing it wrong."

The whites knights came in heeeeeeeeeavy..........
https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/.../tangled-1.jpg

Bronsexuals are not that bad........Thought it was them at first as a sports fan because they are obsessed with their king. Was like, "Yeah.... 100% ONLY playing for the story now lol"

Justified.......Cry me a river why don't you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=CIk45fEWBok

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

I really don't believe that sprouts are trying to be toxic. They are new; the world is confusing to them; they don't necessarily play to be "good" but to enjoy the story (for example, some youtubers will go through the MSQ then move onto the next FF game).

What is important to understand is that they don't know you. You are a stranger to them. They don't know your advice is well-intentioned, so their default assumption is going to be that you're being rude. Especially if it's the very first thing you say to them and you blurt it out, bereft of context.

If the first things you said to them were introducing yourself and talking about the meaning of life while waiting for the healer to get back from AFK, maybe they'd trust you, but if the first thing you say is "use this, use that", barking orders at them, it's not a good first impression. And that is how most people do it in my experience, unfortunately.

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The run started fairly cold as neither the tank or the BRD said hi when my friend and I did, half way through after noticing how much damage they were taking, I then was like *hey, i know you're new, I'm a main tank for the tier and I know a lot of this possibly seems scary, so I wanna give you some small advice as some healers can be asshats about this type of stuff, you should always use a CD. like rampart, shadow wall, or TBN. The BRD instantly told me to shut up and just heal.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

I don't think most people giving the advice are trying to be a bad actor, it's just that giving the advice in the first place is often not going to work out, because it comes across as blurting it out to a stranger and this first impression acts as a confirmation bias; confirmation of their fear that someone in the dungeon will be toxic.

You basically have to find a way to dispel that confirmation bias before blurting out advice and that's difficult to do while fighting enemies, so unless someone goes AFK or stops to chat, it often doesn't work out very well to give advice.

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It's why I alsy try to introduce myslef in runs and give the advice if I see someone seriously struggling and it usually goes well. But sadly there are the people who will see it as you being agressive and or antagonistic. ANd for me it's like, I know how hard MMOs can be, I just wanna give people the same grace I got when I was a kid playing on their big brothers account trying to lvl xD

Lmao what a thread.

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Originally Posted by strawberrycake

Eden Tier 2, Casually was lvling my SCH, told a guy about how they should use rampart and TBN during pulls, said it in the nicest way possible as the 3 mobs per pack were nuking them, literally. I was a tank main that tier and was oh snap neat a new DRK, and their BRD friend got so pissy with me, I dropped it cuz I just laugh at white knights like that and got a warning from a gm. I have no reason to lie if I was nice or not as I have zero problems telling people their idiots in this game, but that situation really made me not wanna help a lot of new players when I saw em after that.

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This is why I would never offer advice no matter how bad a player is playing until they f*** up real bad and cause a disasterrific wipe. At that point I'd make sure to let it be known that I can offer some help to rectify their mistake. The wipe serves as a 'slap on hand' by the game for playing terribly---when done, I find that people tend to be more receptive to advice because they knew 3-7 other pair of eyes are on them.

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Originally Posted by strawberrycake

The run started fairly cold as neither the tank or the BRD said hi when my friend and I did, half way through after noticing how much damage they were taking, I then was like *hey, i know you're new, I'm a main tank for the tier and I know a lot of this possibly seems scary, so I wanna give you some small advice as some healers can be asshats about this type of stuff, you should always use a CD. like rampart, shadow wall, or TBN. The BRD instantly told me to shut up and just heal.

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I see, looks like you really tried with breaking the ice there.

How I personally handle it is to let them make all the mistakes they want to make and learn from them. After all, they're only going to get the "died to that mechanic" experience once probably, then they'll know it and be able to recall that time they died to it when reminiscing. I also tend to think that if someone really wants to know all the mechanics ahead of time they'll either lookup a video guide or do it with duty support.

In rare cases, if they ask for help then I answer it or if we really can't progress then I explain the mechanic in a general way, with the phrasing "you can achieve X by doing Y" or "X can be done by doing Y" and I don't even say who I'm talking to, so it keeps it very generic as if I'm writing a book. Since it's phrased as "can", it's informal and not demanding that they actually do it.

I actually always did that before the rules were clarified but now they got really specific about how things "should be phrased as a suggestion rather than a demand" and what I do already follows that.

The bad actors can be on either side of the help conversation.

That doesn't mean there's a bad actor in every help conversation. It's very rare that I see either side being rude.

Still waiting for the OP to come back but as others have said, they were probably just trying to stir up drama since they don't seem interested in the conversation.

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Originally Posted by Arrius

At the very least, western MMO players straight up tell it in your face and ask you if you gonna cry about it.

XIV players straight up send threats on streamers/yt'ers if they don't like what they hear from them in their streams/videos.

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Apparently the Japanese playerbase isn't much better than the western playerbase.

Final Fantasy 14 Director Yoshi-P Calls Out Player Abuse Towards Devs
https://gamerant.com/final-fantasy-1...er-abuse-devs/

Yoshi P Not Happy With FFXIV Players
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tpzq-k9hv9M

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Originally Posted by Swordsman

Apparently the Japanese playerbase isn't much better than the western playerbase.

Final Fantasy 14 Director Yoshi-P Calls Out Player Abuse Towards Devs
https://gamerant.com/final-fantasy-1...er-abuse-devs/

Yoshi P Not Happy With FFXIV Players
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tpzq-k9hv9M

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https://media1.tenor.com/m/X7DKCCuPL...ir-the-pot.gif

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Originally Posted by Swordsman

Apparently the Japanese playerbase isn't much better than the western playerbase.

Final Fantasy 14 Director Yoshi-P Calls Out Player Abuse Towards Devs
https://gamerant.com/final-fantasy-1...er-abuse-devs/

Yoshi P Not Happy With FFXIV Players
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tpzq-k9hv9M

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Recently The JP player base have been telling Yoshida he looks like a frog, just to give people an idea about what they say during major streams.

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Originally Posted by strawberrycake

Recently The JP player base have been telling Yoshida he looks like a frog, just to give people an idea about what they say during major streams.

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Jesus. Of all the things they could say, they choose to go after the guy's physical appearance...? Lol, some people man.

My favorite part of this community are the people who unironically go "Actually its a GOOD thing this feature of the game sucks"

you know who they are

https://24.media.tumblr.com/d0c30d9e...5mq1o1_400.gif

No.
What makes this community terrible is how it will harass content creators who publish criticism of the game's design, or get angry if a twitch streamer running through the MSQ for the first time isn't crying watching cutscenes they cried at, or respond with hostility any time it's suggested players who don't enjoy a type of content in the game shouldn't be entitled to the content's reward.

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Originally Posted by Swordsman

Apparently the Japanese playerbase isn't much better than the western playerbase.

Final Fantasy 14 Director Yoshi-P Calls Out Player Abuse Towards Devs
https://gamerant.com/final-fantasy-1...er-abuse-devs/

Yoshi P Not Happy With FFXIV Players
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tpzq-k9hv9M

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2ch is from Japan. And that place is a horrible cesspit of terminally online freaks who seriously organize real life threats against any creators of media they like if they do a little thing that upsets them. The fact 2ch still exists is a testament to Japan not being all that nicer compared to unhinged western fans.

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Originally Posted by Oizen

My favorite part of this community are the people who unironically go "Actually its a GOOD thing this feature of the game sucks"

you know who they are

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I also dislike the people who HAVE to make talking about anything realistically impossible and try to turn it into nothing but forced positive bs, like if ya'll don't wanna talk about how things really are you can just not respond.

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Originally Posted by Oizen

My favorite part of this community are the people who unironically go "Actually its a GOOD thing this feature of the game sucks"

you know who they are

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Haha, that's a good one too. My personal favorite are those who say feedback (even when delivered in a completely polite way) is harassment.

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

No.
What makes this community terrible is how it will harass content creators who publish criticism of the game's design, or get angry if a twitch streamer running through the MSQ for the first time isn't crying watching cutscenes they cried at, or respond with hostility any time it's suggested players who don't enjoy a type of content in the game shouldn't be entitled to the content's reward.

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Yeah, I remember several instances of this with streamers. Asmongold played MSQ for about 2.5 hours one day then logged off to go play Lost Ark, and FF players lost their minds. Asmon plays halfway through Stormblood and quits because the game isn't really his thing and FF players go crazy again. Sodapoppin buys a story skip and FF players go ballistic. Quin69 quits the game because he's not enjoying it and FF players crucify him on twitter.

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

2ch is from Japan. And that place is a horrible cesspit of terminally online freaks who seriously organize real life threats against any creators of media they like if they do a little thing that upsets them. The fact 2ch still exists is a testament to Japan not being all that nicer compared to unhinged western fans.

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That reminds me. I believe the person who supposedly mailed a sword to an FFXIV dev originated from that crowd. I'm not sure how true this story is though because I only saw it posted on these forums a while back without a source cited.

https://i.ibb.co/1n5NRS9/cat-hitting...n-desk-cat.gif

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Originally Posted by Swordsman

That reminds me. I believe the person who supposedly mailed a sword to an FFXIV dev originated from that crowd. I'm not sure how true this story is though because I only saw it posted on these forums a while back without a source cited.

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https://media1.tenor.com/m/TRgNLvosF...romir-gift.gif

To arm your opponent is a bold strategy, citizen, and it is one that may not work out in their favor.




For duty and valor.

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

No.
What makes this community terrible is how it will harass content creators who publish criticism of the game's design, or get angry if a twitch streamer running through the MSQ for the first time isn't crying watching cutscenes they cried at, or respond with hostility any time it's suggested players who don't enjoy a type of content in the game shouldn't be entitled to the content's reward.

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Forced to agree.

There does seem to be an element of players who can't accept that not everyone likes the same thing. I have to remember that myself, when I wax lyrical about the game to friends who don't play it and have demonstrated little or no interest in trying it - remind myself to accept that a game like FFXIV isn't going to be everyone's proverbial 'cup of tea'.

But as you say (in your examples) it does seem as if some players seem to take 'I don't like what you like' as a personal insult.

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Originally Posted by WeebPolice

https://media1.tenor.com/m/TRgNLvosF...romir-gift.gif

To arm your opponent is a bold strategy, citizen, and it is one that may not work out in their favor.




For duty and valor.

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Lol, that's true. A strategy of giving weapons to your enemy carries a certain amount of risk. Also, welcome back lieutenant. Were you gone for a deployment?

XD i remember one Reddit post about f2p accounts getting master capes, and to make master capes f2p buyable. The amount of salt in the thread, bashing f2ps for wanting it at least for cosmetic achievements. then I dove deeper into Runsecape comminity,, Ima stick with my youtubers

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Originally Posted by Swordsman

Lol, that's true. A strategy of giving weapons to your enemy carries a certain amount of risk. Also, welcome back lieutenant. Were you gone for a deployment?

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Yes, that's correct, citizen. Long ship deployments are great for saving up. You get the family separation bonus, which more than makes up for the bunk and chow fees. Of course, I don't qualify for the bonus since I haven't been approved yet. But once I am, I'll have a nice nest egg saved up.




Forge's glow watch over you.

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Originally Posted by WeebPolice

Yes, that's correct, citizen. Long ship deployments are great for saving up. You get the family separation bonus, which more than makes up for the bunk and chow fees. Of course, I don't qualify for the bonus since I haven't been approved yet. But once I am, I'll have a nice nest egg saved up.




Forge's glow watch over you.

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Omg lol, that's from Helldivers.

https://media1.tenor.com/m/-xChsQzD_...helldivers.gif