Which class fantasies of base classes do you like/miss?

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Pretty sure Paladins in the previous 4+ editions got their powers from the divine.

5E having oaths be the source of their power also feels like a bit of a slapped on afterthought to me, given that a lot of their toolkit still has divine right there in the name.

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It's kinda both?

Like I said earlier in the thread, pre-2e Paladins were still religious, but they weren't religious as their primary thing. They were a Charlemagne/Knights of the Round Table thing, where you were a chivalrous knight of the realm and being religious (specifically Christian let's be honest) was just an expected part of that. My guess is that D&D evolved Paladins into that more predominantly religious context so that the class could have an identity meaningfully different from just a Lawful Good fighter.

The entire evolution of D&D Paladins afterwards is a separate discussion, but in the context of FFXIV the main thing is that Final Fantasy's image of a Paladin grew out of that pre-2e Paladin and sort of evolved in parallel, basically just winding up as 'a knight with some divine-looking magic' (but not actual Holy, that's still the white mage's territory... who, uhm, also isn't typically depicted as religious, but at least is sometimes).

It's probably worth remembering that D&D terminology features a traditional split between Arcane and Divine spellcasting, and that even Rangers were considered to be 'Divine spellcasters' (alongside Clerics, Druids, and Paladins). The reasoning on the surface is that nature represents a higher power even in the absence of formal worship of a deity, but there's a practical 'balance' reason for this as well. Earlier editions just didn't want you to cast Arcane spells while in armor, even if you multiclassed with the correct feats/proficiencies. This historically served to counterbalance the exponential power growth of Wizards relative to everyone else.

If I remember correctly, there was no formal requirement for Paladins to have a deity in 2E/3E, in contrast to Clerics who were specifically religious warriors capable of using heavy armor and weapons (and whose spell list was influenced by their deity's domain). I think if you had wanted a similar concept within FFXIV you'd need a job whose spell list was tied to their choice of the Twelve, although I'm not sure how that would work now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Pretty sure Paladins in the previous 4+ editions got their powers from the divine.

5E having oaths be the source of their power also feels like a bit of a slapped on afterthought to me, given that a lot of their toolkit still has divine right there in the name.

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3rd and 4th edition were actually the only editions where paladins were explicitly religious warriors empowered by gods. 1e and 2e paladins were often religion, but empowered by devotion to Law and Good as concepts. In the Complete Paladin's Handbook (2e) many of the kits (i.e.: subclasses) were non-religious. Basically, powered by chivalry.

Re: D&D

Just to add, pre 3E, Paladins essentially had more to do with real world Samurai code than anything holy. (see: Bushido) . Moreover, in certain settings many didn't even refer to themselves as actual Paladins so much as follow some kind of strict code, nor did they even have holy magic.

Specific examples include the Solamnic Knights of Dragonlance ("My Honor is my Life", to the point that sullying it could merit suicide). Again never really called themselves paladins, and in that universe they basically didn't have magic (Divine magic in that world essentially didn't exist outside of specific characters in the original series)

Gladiator was fun and my first class, though amusingly because I thought it was a DPS class. I do miss the blood and sand aspect. Samurai's intro quest- my main class since Stormblood- amusingly started in the same place and way.

MCH I haven't leveled past 51 but I do hope it keeps the same themes. I do miss the first DRK arc as well- that one amused me as well. I rerolled as Au Ra Xaela as HS started. I chose, down to the eyes, face/horns, hair etc, the same design as Sidurgu. I thought for a long time that Sidurgu would just be whatever race and design you chose, but with white hair.

From a lore perspective I miss having to keep up Life of the Dragon as a DRG, it epitomizes basically running like hell between fights, seeking out new opponents. As a game mechanic it really sucked, though them taking it out has made the kit feel a bit more disjointed as of late. I'm actually hoping that whatever revamp they'll be doing though will lean more into us being empowered by hrasevelgr's whole eye at the end of the Dragonsong War; one would think that would affect our DRG skills even harder than just being bound to Nidhogg's eye would be.

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Originally Posted by nukemind

MCH I haven't leveled past 51 but I do hope it keeps the same themes. I do miss the first DRK arc as well- that one amused me as well. I rerolled as Au Ra Xaela as HS started. I chose, down to the eyes, face/horns, hair etc, the same design as Sidurgu. I thought for a long time that Sidurgu would just be whatever race and design you chose, but with white hair.

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Nah, Sidurgu's his own dude, and him being a xaela is REALLY important to his story. In fact if memory serves he drops that info pretty quickly.

MCH is one of the 'straight shots' in terms of themes in both multi-part job quests and in-game mechanics; its story has always been essentially about the Ishgardian proletariat (not that they'd use that phrase), and the mechanics have always been about being a gadgeteer gunslinger, even if the ratio of 'gadgets' and 'gun' changed over time.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

Nah, Sidurgu's his own dude, and him being a xaela is REALLY important to his story. In fact if memory serves he drops that info pretty quickly.

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Oh he absolutely is and I ADORED his quest. He was just a carbon copy of my PC, down to the eyes, just palette swapped, so at the time when I started them I really thought he was going to be the same for all DRKs.