What if: Starting with Dawntrail, everyone starts referring to the WoL as they/them?

I'd really rather not start seeing my character refered to as a type 02 au ra

Tired of woke misogyny, personally.

I don't want to shit on pronouns since I think they're harmless, but they/them as pronouns make me think of you as a collective more than a person. Like you're legion. Also, the she/them memes. But it always seems like pandering. Like body 1 and 2 type stuff. You did it for social points. And because there's still two choices, I don't believe that you're genuine. If that makes any sense. It just feels like someone from a more "enlightened" area talking down. If that makes any sense. Let's learn the morons a thing or two while saying we're all equal. When we clearly aren't.

No thanks.

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Originally Posted by AmorfaVex

Not a fan.

I am not plural.

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The singular "they" dates back to Shakespeare. It is not just used for multiple people or plural people. Read a dictionary.

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Originally Posted by KayRadley

The singular "they" dates back to Shakespeare. It is not just used for multiple people or plural people. Read a dictionary.

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To be fair, it's pretty odd for those who aren't English natives. It would be actually impossible to translate the "They / them" option perfectly for many people.

Mao is Mao.

I would stop playing. I already got enough of that bs irl, i dont need it in FF14 as well.

It should just be an option. I'd have preferred if my character was called they/them and the option would have been nice but a change mid-game forced on everyone wouldn't go well.

Not that I care if those people quit the game, not one bit, but Square wouldn't want the drama.

You give an inch, THEY take several miles

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Originally Posted by KayRadley

Found the 'phobe

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Found the shamer.

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Originally Posted by KayRadley

The singular "they" dates back to Shakespeare. It is not just used for multiple people or plural people. Read a dictionary.

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Dont be ridiculous.

Today "They" is plural.

I can find plenty of other ancient word uses that would likely offend the pants off of you if we used them today.

Ask for an option, im fine with that. Dont force this newspeak on me.

Cost saving measure to no longer need two versions of every character-referencing dialogue in english, nice.

Troll aside (which I doubt here, but let's be naive for a second), this kind of proposal surprises me enormously for one thing: it's something that claims to be inclusive. But at the same time it fails dramatically on one point : It is impossible, in many of today's languages, to convey the neutrality associated with 'They'. Which would mean that this kind of thing would not be accessible to non-English speakers.

Which is... rather exclusive. Just to clarify one thing: I'm well aware that if it only appears on the screens of English players, well, it won't make any difference to me. It's just the reasoning itself that seems strange for this reason.

Gonna be frank:

They should add the option just as much as they should add more proper beard options and long hairstyles. More options for character creation and player expression are always a good thing. Don't remove options, add as many as possible. I'd even make an argument for fashion/hair mods, but I'm not gonna cause I know that's heresy for some people.

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Originally Posted by KayRadley

How would you react to your WoL being referred to with gender-neutral pronouns?

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How about.......no thank you.

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Originally Posted by Fourbestintoner

I'd rather not deal with American moral imperialism in my video games.

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This is the correct answer.

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Originally Posted by Mosha

I lean toward the latter since their RP profile comes up in Google and it was last edited back in 2019 and the OC has lesbian as their sexuality. Looking at the lodestone the character doesn't do much outside of RP by the looks of it. However, they only started posting again during the VA debacle after two years of inactivity.

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Their entire history of threads on here is pretty questionable. Most of their posts are just anger-bait threads over housing, and one bait thread from when EW released and the login queues were horrendous.

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

Gonna be frank:

They should add the option just as much as they should add more proper beard options and long hairstyles. More options for character creation and player expression are always a good thing. Don't remove options, add as many as possible. I'd even make an argument for fashion/hair mods, but I'm not gonna cause I know that's heresy for some people.

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I wouldn't really mind it as long as it's an option. Wouldn't be offended or anything if it was forced, but I do agree that more options for anything is always nice.

OP isn't here to offer suggestions though. They're here to rage bait.

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Originally Posted by Ardeth

I don't want to shit on pronouns since I think they're harmless, but they/them as pronouns make me think of you as a collective more than a person. Like you're legion. Also, the she/them memes. But it always seems like pandering. Like body 1 and 2 type stuff. You did it for social points. And because there's still two choices, I don't believe that you're genuine. If that makes any sense. It just feels like someone from a more "enlightened" area talking down. If that makes any sense. Let's learn the morons a thing or two while saying we're all equal. When we clearly aren't.

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It's just a linguistic thing to get used to tbh. Singular they is already used in game for the pixies, nu mou, fuath.

Don't most transgender fight to be recognized as a man or woman? Wouldn't force "they/them" on them go against that?

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Originally Posted by CNitsah

Don't most transgender fight to be recognized as a man or woman? Wouldn't force "they/them" on them go against that?

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I'm no expert, but I guess it's because some individuals don't want to be recognized as either sex.

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Originally Posted by KayRadley

The singular "they" dates back to Shakespeare. It is not just used for multiple people or plural people. Read a dictionary.

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That's not quite accurate - see https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/they however more to the point, we don't live during Shakespeare's times. You could have cited (as per what I linked) other literary sources, in various contexts, for the use of plural pronouns applied to singular persons, however those were in formal or literary contexts.

So- several would likely seem very quaint to most people today. Not that I object in any way to someone who sees themselves as nonbinary, it's the context that you've tried to apply.

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Originally Posted by Fourbestintoner

I'd rather not deal with American moral imperialism in my video games.

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As an American, I'm fighting hard against them every day. But remember it's not "American," but rather those that own the banks and their specific culture forced upon us. I fight against them too.

Back on topic, no. Leave it as him/her.

Canon pronouns real? Let's goooo

Goofs aside, not everyone likes they/them pronouns, so it would probably cause a fuss. Maybe one day, if someone feels like its worth the bill to now record another set of alternate takes.

would be weird for the german version. they would either have to use english pronouns which would probably offset a lot more people or use 'it'... would be funny to see the reaction of the people who demanded this only to read 'it' in the end xD

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Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

I wouldn't really mind it as long as it's an option.

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https://64.media.tumblr.com/757a2903...ypxlo1_500.gif

If we are to believe that the individuals so desperate to see this implemented consider it to be important then they should, in turn, recognise that many of us consider the pronouns in use already to be something we do not wish to see replaced or eroded away entirely.

There would be far less opposition to this stuff if it came as something implemented as a third option that players could pick if they so desired.

The game is also a decade old and some of the voice actors are either retired or sadly deceased - so going back and reworking things isn't entirely viable. Suddenly adding the option in a future expansion would simply be jarring, since it would be exceedingly clinical for the Scions who have supposedly become the player character's close friends and adventuring companions to switch to more distant pronouns that lack a personal touch.

I'd prefer feminine pronouns for my character, I wouldn't mind a gender neutral option or any option to set your pronouns.

I know this is likely a bait thread, but I've got a couple nb characters, so this option would be wonderful!

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Originally Posted by Fourbestintoner

I'd rather not deal with American moral imperialism in my video games.

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damn i loved your comment

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Originally Posted by KayRadley

How would you react to your WoL being referred to with gender-neutral pronouns?

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She wouldn't enjoy being Misgendered. Gender neutral pronouns are not a Band-Aid to avoid offending people. They're an identity, just like any other. If you call a cis man or woman by gender neutal pronouns, you are misgendering him or her.

Considering that it was done in Harvestella (a game on which XIV devs have worked on), I think the option for it would be pretty cool.

I wish we could have a pronoun/gender choice considering a few NPCs both in-game and in EE have it this way already.

Sure, adding a whole new pronoun to 13 years worth of text might take some time (even though your gender only appears, or even appears to be relevant in dialogue a handful of times only) but.. heh.
About whats already in the game right now, Male or Female is just a character setting byte or something. I hope the option to pick which one we want will be available in the future!

I think it would be difficult to go back and integrate it into past dialogue, or at least spoken dialogue. But maybe a happy medium would be an option for that going forward. I'd still want them to retain he/him and she/her for anyone where that applies to their WoL.

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Originally Posted by KayRadley

The singular "they" dates back to Shakespeare. It is not just used for multiple people or plural people. Read a dictionary.

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It's also very archaic, funnily enough us British people don't speak like Urianger on the daily. I also have a sneaking suspicion that it wasn't commonly used back then and more reserved for plays.

I Wouldn't even notice if they changed it tbh.

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Originally Posted by CNitsah

Don't most transgender fight to be recognized as a man or woman? Wouldn't force "they/them" on them go against that?

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Trans guy reporting: different people experience their journey differently. There're plenty of those who prefer neutral pronounces as well as those who simply don't care much about them outside of being perceived as their gender visually. Also, non binary and agender is a thing, too. We aren't a hivemind.


Back to the topic: I honestly don't really see SE adding this, but the option would've been nice if they did decide to ever do it, so long as it's optional. For those who need it, it's a neat little thing that will make their day slightly better. For those who don't it's something they can simply ignore entirely. Probably won't be a thing ever, but could be a nice QoL in theory.

How about no?

I do not want any of this IRL stuff in my FANTASY World. Thanks.

It is called a ROLEPLAYING Game for a reason. You play the Role of a character, That character is NOT YOU. If you think you are, then you might wanna stand up and look into a mirror.

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Originally Posted by ClayyLmao

She wouldn't enjoy being Misgendered. Gender neutral pronouns are not a Band-Aid to avoid offending people. They're an identity, just like any other. If you call a cis man or woman by gender neutal pronouns, you are misgendering him or her.

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This is factually incorrect. The singular "they" has been in use for over six hundred years and is a catch-all for all genders and some objects. It is impossible to misgender someone with "they".

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Originally Posted by Immut

This is factually incorrect. The singular "they" has been in use for over six hundred years and is a catch-all for all genders and some objects. It is impossible to misgender someone with "they".

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No, when the person is sure about their... "cisness", you're definitly being insulting if you keep using the pronoun "they". And, please, stop using the argument of seniority to justify the legitimacy of a word. There are quite a few words that are very old and have disappeared, quite rightly, because they were no longer valid (All the lexical field relating to ethnic groups, to pick the most obvious example). An element of language is consubstantial with its era; it certainly indicates a certain use of grammar, but it also carries ideological meaning. In this respect, you can't claim that forcing the "they" on someone is neutral today - and the very old use of this pronoun won't change anything here.