"SUMMONER" 7.0 Wishlist.

My wishlist for Summoner in 7.0 is to have a real job, and not just a crayon scribbled mess that got turned in at the last second. Also for SE to pull their head out of the sand and realize what a garbage mechanic demi-summoning is and finally do away with that nonsense in favor of a class identity that actually works.

Fixes:
Allow casting of Bahamut/Phoenix outside of combat.
Allow casting of shield regardless of what the carbuncle is doing.
Don't force Bahamut/Phoenix to drift outside of buff windows. Just make them 2mins regardless of spell speed.

Wishes:
I like the idea of Phoenix summoning the other 3 primals

It's not just that SMN doesn't get anything gamechangin after reaching lv 60. I was about to comment that, but then I realised "Hey...so does BLM!" No, seriously. Go check it! BLM does get IceIV at 58 and FireIV at 60. The only thing BLM gets in the next 30 levels that slighty changes it's rotation are Foul and it's single target version. Everything else are either upgrades of existing stuff or ogcd stuff that assist it's rotation like Triple Cast or flying back to Ley Lines. But regardless BLM feels like a fleshed out job. Why doesn't SMN?

Because SMN doesn't has an actual red line in it's gameplay. Every action of SMN is "I'm on a cd. And you should use me when the cd is ready." It's Job Gauge has no purpose. Try hiding it at the edge of your screen where you cannot see it and tell me if you can still play summoner by just looking at what abilites glow. (I admit, you can do that with a lot of Jobs actually)

Or just go change to MCH. Delete Automaton Queen and Hypercharge from your bar. Play just with your 1-2-3 rotation, 2 ogcd's, Wildfire and Drill, Air Anchor and Saw. Now tell me, that this does not feel like SMN. (I'm exagerating a bit, but it does come very near imo)

Edit: It sounds dumb to ask for a rework for a job that just got one. But how do you even add anything that isn't an upgrade to it, when there is no place to do so?

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Originally Posted by Kreyd

It's not just that SMN doesn't get anything gamechangin after reaching lv 60. I was about to comment that, but then I realised "Hey...so does BLM!" No, seriously. Go check it! BLM does get IceIV at 58 and FireIV at 60. The only thing BLM gets in the next 30 levels that slighty changes it's rotation are Foul and it's single target version. Everything else are either upgrades of existing stuff or ogcd stuff that assist it's rotation like Triple Cast or flying back to Ley Lines. But regardless BLM feels like a fleshed out job. Why doesn't SMN?

Because SMN doesn't has an actual red line in it's gameplay. Every action of SMN is "I'm on a cd. And you should use me when the cd is ready." It's Job Gauge has no purpose. Try hiding it at the edge of your screen where you cannot see it and tell me if you can still play summoner by just looking at what abilites glow. (I admit, you can do that with a lot of Jobs actually)

Or just go change to MCH. Delete Automaton Queen and Hypercharge from your bar. Play just with your 1-2-3 rotation, 2 ogcd's, Wildfire and Drill, Air Anchor and Saw. Now tell me, that this does not feel like SMN. (I'm exagerating a bit, but it does come very near imo)

Edit: It sounds dumb to ask for a rework for a job that just got one. But how do you even add anything that isn't an upgrade to it, when there is no place to do so?

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To be fair BLM feels like absolute garbage without foul’s insta cast and umbral soul, I’d say umbral soul at least is a complete game changer for the class because it means you can skip the opening umbral ice phase and store polyglots, paradox and the extra charge on sharpcast also opens up way more line options, still I’d say BLM hits its “close enough to be complete that I can tolerate it at about 76 (umbral soul)

Regardless your point about SMN is totally correct

One of the reasons they cited for reworking SMN was that they had no way to add or change anything with the old design for future expansions. I would assume that when they made this current design they had something in mind for the future of the job so we will have to see what it becomes, but there is a lot of derision about not only it's current state but players who use it and I think that shows a lack of sincerity about wanting something more. It comes across to me as simply wanting to trash a job and it's players to feel superior than them.

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Originally Posted by SieyaM

One of the reasons they cited for reworking SMN was that they had no way to add or change anything with the old design for future expansions. I would assume that when they made this current design they had something in mind for the future of the job so we will have to see what it becomes, but there is a lot of derision about not only it's current state but players who use it and I think that shows a lack of sincerity about wanting something more. It comes across to me as simply wanting to trash a job and it's players to feel superior than them.

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You don't half complete a job and release it in that state. I also don't believe for a second that they had no where to go, there's no way they have so little imagination.

As for derision, they outright REMOVED a job that had been in game since 2.0 launch. I think people have a right to be irritated and to get irritated with people who didn't play the class previously telling them how great it is now. I have no problem with people wanting a braindead job to play, Red Mage and Machinist were mine, but I certainly didn't want my main job removed to make room for it.

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Originally Posted by Palladiamors

You don't half complete a job and release it in that state. I also don't believe for a second that they had no where to go, there's no way they have so little imagination.

As for derision, they outright REMOVED a job that had been in game since 2.0 launch. I think people have a right to be irritated and to get irritated with people who didn't play the class previously telling them how great it is now. I have no problem with people wanting a braindead job to play, Red Mage and Machinist were mine, but I certainly didn't want my main job removed to make room for it.

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SE kinda does this tbh. Remember the MNK or MCH reworks? I mean just look at the evolution of SMN over the years.

ARR: DoT mage with pets
HW: "Here is a burst-phase.
SB: "Here is another burst-phase.
ShB: "Here is ANOTHER another burst-phase

What could they have done for EW? ANOTHER ANOTHER another Burst-phase? Anyone want some SMN to their burst-phases? x'D

Okay, jokes aside. I'm pretty convinced that the reason for the SMN rework was that they couldn't add anything that would make sense. And I'm also convinced that that's the reason for the DRG rework we'll get.

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Originally Posted by Kreyd

Okay, jokes aside. I'm pretty convinced that the reason for the SMN rework was that they couldn't add anything that would make sense. And I'm also convinced that that's the reason for the DRG rework we'll get.

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There are plenty of things they could have added, SE's excuse has always been weak. The problem is and has always been demi-summoning acting as a forced petswap gumming up the job. So they did the totally reasonable thing and... removed everything else from Summoner just to mask the problems of demi-summoning. They're still in the same problem they were before EW released, they can't add anything without this one mechanic screwing it up. Unless they (finally) rework or discard it we might get a single GCD and some color swap 'upgrades' at best.

I wish SMN's summons were actual Egi versions of all instead of just temporary combos that you see a few seconds with any luck.

Also, Diabolos.

With summons, SMN should get several ways to play the job depending on what summons you use. But no, they had to implement just one way to play it like every other job.

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Originally Posted by Flana

There are plenty of things they could have added, SE's excuse has always been weak. The problem is and has always been demi-summoning acting as a forced petswap gumming up the job. So they did the totally reasonable thing and... removed everything else from Summoner just to mask the problems of demi-summoning. They're still in the same problem they were before EW released, they can't add anything without this one mechanic screwing it up. Unless they (finally) rework or discard it we might get a single GCD and some color swap 'upgrades' at best.

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So what would you have added to the old kit for EW, what new skills that are not a single GCD and upgrades of existing skills?

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Originally Posted by SieyaM

So what would you have added to the old kit for EW?

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Could ask you the same question....please share your own wishlist of what you want for SMN's future.

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Originally Posted by SieyaM

what new skills that are not a single GCD and upgrades of existing skills?

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You say this as if it's not something that's an issue in some way and to varying degrees with every single job...

So I know nothing, and have no basis on which to predict what's coming for summoner. But here's what I would like to see and/or just some wild speculation:

There's some debate on whether the rez is going away. The rez is an arcanist skill, and generally speaking as far as I can remember there's little or no precedent for a skill like this to go away unless they also remove it from arcanist. I've seen a few comments that people expect them to remove the rezzes from non-healer casters and while I think this is possible I'm not sure that I agree it will happen. I love having a rez on SMN - I've saved a group more times than I can count by picking up a dead healer early in a fight. I'd miss it, but it doesn't define the class for me so I won't cry about it too much if it goes.

One of the things I'd really like them to do is *something* with physick. It's like the vestigial organ of the summoner class. I think the cleanest thing to do would be to give it a summoner specific upgrade that turns it into something useful. It could be a heal that you can only cast when Phoenix is up, or something else entirely. I suspect they don't care that much to do anything with it and are happy with it languishing as an unusable heal. However, RDM has an effective heal, and we put out reasonable healing in Phoenix mode so adding a moderate heal, even with some restrictions, doesn't feel like too much of an overstep.

The biggest thing on my wishlist is more summons. Three new gem summons such as Shiva, Ramuh, and Leviathan (it doesn't have to be these). There's a couple of ways I think this could be handled:
1. Phoenix energises three different gems to Bahamut, so you get the original three with Bahamut and the new three following Phoenix.
2. Bahamut and Phoenix each energise six gems, but you can only spend three, so you have to choose which summon and subsequent spells are appropriate for the situation.

I really just want to put more cool-ass primals on the battlefield, and I'd particularly enjoy more of the classic summons from the series. Shiva's heel-snap for Diamond Dust in XIV is also killer and that animation deserves more screen time.

I've felt since 6.0 that the energy drain - fester mechanic is a bit lacklustre. Might as well just give fester two charges on a cooldown. It feels like it's only there because it was there in 5.x. Having an ability that grants you charges kind of begs for you to have a choice of what to spend those charges on, but there's no choice right now. Maybe if they did upgrade physick it's replacement could use a charge. I actually think this might be a reasonable option for our res, too, if they wanted to restrain it's use a little. I feel like this could be used to bring a little more complexity to the job, and perhaps with an extra charge to spend and some utility/support spenders to compete with the DPS option of fester it might bring some meaningful choice back to the rotation.

I'd like Aetherflow to have some impact on our GCDs beyond using Ruin IV once a minute, like an oGCD which converts Aetherflow to Elemental Attunement (or vice-versa) and Fester/Painflare applying an debuff to targets instead of just doing flat damage as they do currently. SMN's level 50 capstone is also mediocre so I'd like them to either make Enkindle an actual ability or bring back Shadow Flare as a level 50 ACN ability.

Beyond that, they should make the Gemshine Rite and Precious Brilliance Catastrophe abilities available at level 54 and 74 respectively.

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Originally Posted by SieyaM

So what would you have added to the old kit for EW, what new skills that are not a single GCD and upgrades of existing skills?

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Well first of all I would have deleted demi-summoning because it is a godawful mechanic that is utterly hamstringing Summoners design. Removing this one long overdue disaster provides all the space you need to continue iterating on Shadowbringer's design without reducing it to crayola consummoner. You can even retain the flare by having a seperate vfx summon that is Bahamut arriving to use Morn Afah as a bigger finisher compared to Deathflare, or something more thematically appropriate to BCoB like Teraflare or Megaflare. Pheonix can likewise be replaced in the same matter. Boom, I just solved the major ghosting problem that Summoner has been riddled with for a time that conveniently matches how long it has had demi-summoning. If SE can be allowed to deleted everything else in Summoner for EW, I think I can be justified in deleting this one mechanic to preserve everything else and open up a world of design options.

But I doubt that's the answer your looking for, so:

First merge Energy Drain and Siphon. No reason to be 2 buttons when they accomplish the same thing, just give AoE falloff to ED. Merge the rest of the buttons that don't need to exist. Deathflare cannot be used without Dreadwyrm Trance, merge them. Enkindle Bahamut/Phoenix doesn't need to exist when summon blue banana/red pepper exist as their own buttons. Now we've freed up some space without removing anything (besides the worthless Energy Siphon).

DoT Consume: A GCD that deals increasing damage based on the duration of your DoT effects and then removes them from the target. This makes DoTs slightly less vestigial while solving their 'lost potency' problem of having a boss jump. My derision of 'a single GCD' isn't that such moves are bad, its that new Summoner only has room for 1 GCD replacement and will then cut Ruin from the rotation entirely. This skill doesn't replace Ruin in a rotation, but is instead a niche and useful ability to shore up the class's weakness when fight design would otherwise render it weaker than intended.

Pet Action III: Two more stacks of a Pet ability that further defines Ifrit, Titan, and Garuda into their designated niches. This also allows for two more stacks of Ruin IV to be gained, which provides more mobility and if desired a slightly higher burst damage. If you want to keep burst damage the same, keep the Ruin IV stack maximum to 4. Now you're required to spend two in your rotation and further reduce the number of generic Ruin III casts outside the burst window.

Astral Flow: Whenever you summon an egi, you gain a matching buff. This buff lasts until you summon one of the other three egis or you log off. A clunky way to solve the nonsense idea of demi-summoning killing your pet, but there we go. You get a new ability based on which buff you have that can be used on a nominal cooldown. Perhaps Ifrit could give you a dash, harkening back to his trial. Maybe Garuda could put down a big ol windpuddle that heavies enemies in side of it. This ability did not require the gutting of Summoner, it would have worked fine in the old version. I'm putting it here to prove SE's point was weak using new Summoner skills.

Quasi-Trance: How about something weird. Add 'mini-trances' where you can pre-select a primal to gain a buff. Perhaps it augments Ruin II/III and gives them new aspect or trait to play around. You could do something related to the other ARR primals here, since we haven't abandoned the lore of Summoner just yet, although I think something else would work better. Since there are 3 missing primals, that might be a bit much for a batch of CDs you push (most likely in your burst phase as additional damage). Pick 2 somewhere else to lower the number and make it a more interesting choice. Odin and Alexander? Shinryu and Thordan for MSQ? Hell Ravana and Susanoo for MSQ battle bros that make you laugh while casting. Make it a buff that stacks with Trance, or one we use when Demi'ing.

Enhance Egi: An oGCD buff that makes your next Pet Action better. Perhaps it adds a dot, or makes your Titan shield bigger, or maybe it gves you a weaker variant of the other two non-active pet's Pet Action X that you chose. There are a large number of places to take this just off of what Pet Action III would be. You could have a lot of space to play around in this one. As an oGCD this gives you flexibility in where and why you use it, and what effects you want.

Alternatively we could make Summoner a little more supporty with some buffs or debuffs. You could add a debuff to reduce the enemy's damage dealt for a few seconds, or a small shield around all your allies. Heck, we could even make it a HoT and replace Phoenix's with something else so that you can now actually plan around it and use it when wanted. Maybe we want to be boring and just give them Magick Barrier 2: Aetheric Boogaloo for parity sake since we as developers have an idea that another DPS caster is right around the corner. Maybe we want to be spicy and give them an aoe attack speed buff that works on our pets too, so we can really triple down on Meleewalker.

Lets make a boring finale: a buff button that gives you 4 stacks of Ruin IV. There now you can just dump trance and go straight into Bahamut without needing to tell the pet to do anything.

You can pick any of the above, or none at all. I'm not a developer, but these are just a few ideas and there are thousands of others. New traits, new Aetherflow skills + ways to get aetherflow. More kit cohesion. Ramp up mechanics. Heck you could even add big flash VFX summons as buttons and as long as they dont run off the godawful demi system of killing your pet they work fine in the old version. I doubt you want to know what I personally would have added, because that first skill should tell you all you need to know, but I would have returned to form on DoTs. There is infinite space to make DoTs an interesting component to the class, and as a DoT lover I would gleefully exploit that. I had to settle on the one just to give the old design space for all kinds of fights. I debated a few other ideas that involved keeping EW Trance+Demi design but that in itself is a whole other can of worms and I'm not here to redesign Summoner from the ground up, only show that there is plenty of design space left in the old kit even if we kept demi-summoning as was.

But my main idea now is the same as it was at the start of the post: scrap demi-summoning and replace it with something else. Not scrap the entire job just to 'save' this one mechanic.

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Originally Posted by Espon

They're going to give you High Ruin with a potency of 315 so you can cast that once a minute instead of Ruin III.

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Nah Summoner is not a Healer. It will get more sparkly animations for... Bahamut Flare Special Seed Canon or something

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Originally Posted by Flana

: Snip

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You know, you're right. As cool as demi-Bahamut was, that's when things started to go down hill. He should have always just been a single use call in that didn't interrupt our active summon. I mean it's too late now but damn I wish it weren't.

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Originally Posted by Flana

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So Bahamut and Phoenix are summoned along with your current pet, or instead of? Maybe I am just not reading very well but I cannot tell how you want these two to actually summon. It seems like you want them to summon as Ifrit, Titan and Garuda do now, or maybe just have them as an ability you use independent of these pets. As far as Pet Action III, what are these actions going to be what will they do. DoT consume is very situational and I have a feeling will be considered the new Fluid Aura of the game. Enhanced Egi sounds like rouse but instead of just buffing the pet for a duration buffs one attack, and Quasi-trance if it just changes ruin will do nothing that gemshine doesn't already do.

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Originally Posted by SieyaM

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Would still like to see what changes you would make to SMN. So far all your replies have been focused on how other peoples ideas may not work or are flawed in some way, without actually offering an alternative or suggestion to improve/build upon an idea, which would be nice to see.

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Originally Posted by SieyaM

So Bahamut and Phoenix are summoned along with your current pet, or instead of? Maybe I am just not reading very well but I cannot tell how you want these two to actually summon. It seems like you want them to summon as Ifrit, Titan and Garuda do now, or maybe just have them as an ability you use independent of these pets.

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Works exactly as it did in ShB. As I said, I debated working around the EW merge but that causes even more problems than it solves (besides being boring as sin). I did nothing more than show multiple options that could have been added to ShB's design.

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Originally Posted by SieyaM

As far as Pet Action III, what are these actions going to be what will they do.

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Literally does not matter, they can be whatever you want them to be. The point is that there is design space for the ability.

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Originally Posted by SieyaM

DoT consume is very situational and I have a feeling will be considered the new Fluid Aura of the game.

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You do realize boss jumping is exceeding common, right? In this expansion alone P3, 5, 8 (multiple times), and 12 all despawn during the fight and 'waste' DoT uptime. That's just savage. DSR and TOP have bosses that jump multiple times per phase multiple phases in a row, to say nothing of extremes. This is an extremely common design choice by the devs.

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Originally Posted by SieyaM

Enhanced Egi sounds like rouse but instead of just buffing the pet for a duration buffs one attack, and Quasi-trance if it just changes ruin will do nothing that gemshine doesn't already do.

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Both could be added back in, and Gemshine is a completely different button so that only further proves my point. SE saying they had no where else to go with the old design was a weak argument.

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Originally Posted by Flana

There are plenty of things they could have added, SE's excuse has always been weak. The problem is and has always been demi-summoning acting as a forced petswap gumming up the job. So they did the totally reasonable thing and... removed everything else from Summoner just to mask the problems of demi-summoning. They're still in the same problem they were before EW released, they can't add anything without this one mechanic screwing it up. Unless they (finally) rework or discard it we might get a single GCD and some color swap 'upgrades' at best.

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Sorry, I think my wording there was off. I didn't meant that there weren't things they could have done or add, but they just failed to do so. They could've enhanced the DoT or pet aspect of SMN at any time, but instead they somehow went the burst/demi road for 3 addons and then doubled down in EW.

allow our Radiant Aegis to be cast when our carbuncle turns in to other forms, i doubt anyone loves having a defensive they can only use if they actively stop playing their job.. i get it lasts 30 seconds, but still hard to adjust to a healer dropping when your bahamut or phoenix is up.. it should be aloud to be more reactive of a button like every other defensive in the game

Return it to the original state with updates.

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Originally Posted by Mostly_Raxus

allow our Radiant Aegis to be cast when our carbuncle turns in to other forms, i doubt anyone loves having a defensive they can only use if they actively stop playing their job.. i get it lasts 30 seconds, but still hard to adjust to a healer dropping when your bahamut or phoenix is up.. it should be aloud to be more reactive of a button like every other defensive in the game

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Yeah... Honestly, the limitation on RA defeats the purpose of a shield for many situations outside of early prog weeks.

Healers already have way too many healing options, plus across the board mitigations. Most likely that you don't need the shield to survive unless it's an unpredicted situation, but then, if it's not available during those, what's even the point?

• Detach Phoenix from the Trance loop and make it a proper 120s cd summon, with no trance attached and only the damage part.
• Detach Rekindle from Phoenix and merge Everlasting Flight with it, so it works in a similar way to RPR's Crest of Time.
• Make Summon Bahamut an oGCD summon that activates during Dreadwyrm Trance instead of a Demi-pet, moving the Wyrmwave damage to 2 additional Deathflares cast per trance (imagine, making Akh Morn feel even more like Akh Morn)
• Cut down the GCDs each summon occupies down to 3, the summon and 2 other GCDs (which is the CD between summons). There are countless way to go for this goal but the main thing is that Gemshine and Astral Flow are little more than slightly more powerful, glorified fillers that leave very little wiggle room in rotation or design.
• Have each summon give a stack of Further Ruin or anything that increases the amount of stacks of Further Ruin. I want Ruin IV to be the main tool for the SMN movement agency.
• Give an upgrade to Physic that makes it an actually usable heal for solo content. Yes, we won't really use it during group content but, like Vercure, it's always appreciated to have a heal when you actually need it. However, if the second item on the list is fulfilled, this one can be pretty much omitted, as another heal would be overkill.

Pretty sure I got a couple suggerstions more but, so far those are what've come up with. Given the amount of GCD the summon windows plus Gemshines occupy, the space gained from it could be used to add something else.

give DOT, yes yes

I would pretty much make all summons have a very long cast time... we're talking Fire IV cast times... heck even res cast times, while ordering Carbuncle around to dps, or even protect us by putting personal shielding.

Put emphasis on the pet aspect on its base class while as a SMN, its main mechanic is how to be able to summon safely all while managing the pet we had from level 1.

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Originally Posted by rawker

I would pretty much make all summons have a very long cast time... we're talking Fire IV cast times... heck even res cast times, while ordering Carbuncle around to dps, or even protect us by putting personal shielding.

Put emphasis on the pet aspect on its base class while as a SMN, its main mechanic is how to be able to summon safely all while managing the pet we had from level 1.

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I know it's probably an unpopular opinion, buy yeah, I agree. I wouldn't mind even a 5 second cast on summons, just design the rotation to allow for a bit more freedom for when to cast them.

Shorten the egi phases and give more filler casts or something to compensate. As long as it makes actually summoning feel impactful.

So add summon Ramuh, Shiva, and Leviathan, and then add an enkindle to every summon that is either damage or utility

Enkindle Garuda could be a short party movement speed buff
Enkindle Ifrit could be a fire dot
Enkindle Titan could be barrier mit for your party
Enkindle Ramuh could apply paralysis to enemies
Enkindle Shiva could apply deep freeze to enemies
Enkindle Leviathan could have a draw in effect on enemies

Yeah some of them won't be good in raids, but they will be REALLY good in dungeons.

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Originally Posted by mallleable

So add summon Ramuh, Shiva, and Leviathan, and then add an enkindle to every summon that is either damage or utility

Enkindle Garuda could be a short party movement speed buff
Enkindle Ifrit could be a fire dot
Enkindle Titan could be barrier mit for your party
Enkindle Ramuh could apply paralysis to enemies
Enkindle Shiva could apply deep freeze to enemies
Enkindle Leviathan could have a draw in effect on enemies

Yeah some of them won't be good in raids, but they will be REALLY good in dungeons.

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Can we please come up with options that don’t further limit the extremely limited utility and use of the healers in modern 14

The last thing we need is another party wide shield coming off a non healer or another class encroaching on the one good button the 4 healers have got since ShB

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Can we please come up with options that don’t further limit the extremely limited utility and use of the healers in modern 14

The last thing we need is another party wide shield coming off a non healer or another class encroaching on the one good button the 4 healers have got since ShB

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It'd be locked behind a summon phase. There would be enough restrictions to it's use that it should balance out.

Also, they could also borrow something from 11 - Avatar's Favors.

wish they got rid of the Ifrit dash (made ruin 4 into dashes instead)
...and added a dot yo the kit

got bored the other day so brought my squadron to do some dungeons. One of them was an Arcanist.... Seeing Carbuncle auto attack, Miasma, Bio 2 with cast time into Bane have made me want to go back in time to enjoy 2.0 SMN once again.

My wish list, fester now interact with Bahamut and Pheonix, making the burst phase more technical with some cast.

If the burst phase is properly executed, you get "enkindled summon I or III".

Enkindled summon changes how each summon works. You summon the version we saw in Shadowbringer's raid.
Each phase last as long as it's regular version.
Your Ruin spell evolve into a new spell for each summon to fit the new "mini rotation".

Ifrit : you get melee attack with positionals.
Garuda : you summon Garuda's sisters which attack if you're close to them. (Leyline basically)
Titan : you have 3 different cast which combo into each others. Instant, short, very long.

This would bring right enough complexity to not make summoner a joke.

Your burst phase isn't a one button spam anymore, and once done, you need to be careful on your summoning order because either the first (after Baha) or third (after pheonix) summon is changed and they come with some restriction in term of freedom of movement.

No Leviathan Ramuh Shiva because I do not believe we'll ever get them.

Isn't the main schtick of a SMN to call primals to do the work for them? The more I think of the current SMN, I don't hate it but also not a fan of the summons changing aspects of our tool kit. In my opinion, the ARR SMN had so much potential. The hatred towards it was uncalled for. Sure, they could have removed the DoT management in favor of a more fleshed out pet management. I find it rather funny and immersion breaking that it took an entire tribe and sacrifice to summon a primal but when it's our turn to summon them, it's just an oGCD. The summoning has no impact, whatsoever.

It would have been better if the primals took a lot of preparations before we can be able to summon them. And while doing the summoning, we can manage the pet on the side to either do the damaging and or protecting us while we're down doing the rituals.

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Originally Posted by rawker

Isn't the main schtick of a SMN to call primals to do the work for them? The more I think of the current SMN, I don't hate it but also not a fan of the summons changing aspects of our tool kit. In my opinion, the ARR SMN had so much potential. The hatred towards it was uncalled for. Sure, they could have removed the DoT management in favor of a more fleshed out pet management. I find it rather funny and immersion breaking that it took an entire tribe and sacrifice to summon a primal but when it's our turn to summon them, it's just an oGCD. The summoning has no impact, whatsoever.

It would have been better if the primals took a lot of preparations before we can be able to summon them. And while doing the summoning, we can manage the pet on the side to either do the damaging and or protecting us while we're down doing the rituals.

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I can see it as us attuning the the element of the summon, the same way we had to attune to the right aspected aether to learn to summon them anyway. Anyway all that is in the past anyway since job lore is of no concern to the development team now.

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Originally Posted by SieyaM

I can see it as us attuning the the element of the summon, the same way we had to attune to the right aspected aether to learn to summon them anyway. Anyway all that is in the past anyway since job lore is of no concern to the development team now.

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Then that is not summoner and more akin to enchanter. Imbuing one's attack to take on different elements is already within the realm of enchanting while summoning calls upon an entity to do what the summoner desires.

Shadowbringers, as an expansion, has the crystal exarch summoned us from the source to the first.

Between SMN and SCH, the latter has more summoner vibes than the former.

Hilarious that people praise modern SMN as feeling like a SMN rather than a diet warlock when it now just feels like a diet enchanter and SCH continues to be the pet class that actually feels somewhat like a SMN because it actually has to summon and control a useful pet that affects how you play it

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Hilarious that people praise modern SMN as feeling like a SMN rather than a diet warlock when it now just feels like a diet enchanter and SCH continues to be the pet class that actually feels somewhat like a SMN because it actually has to summon and control a useful pet that affects how you play it

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Amen, my fellow SCH.

You have to control a pet that doesn't die, doesn't take damage, and the only remaining thing is where to place it. Such a summoner, whooo.

( but it's better than smn )