Time for an anti-cheat

Don't mind me, just over here laughing at how people think anti-cheat would stop anything when you can literally YouTube how to bypass it in 10m or less.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

Source: Trust me bro.
Man, I would really like to see all those "ACT and whatever-that-supposed-tool-that-plays-the-game-for-you-is mandatory or kick" party finder listings.

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Source: the other thread (that was also wrong about this)

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Originally Posted by HikariKurosawa

Think about it like this though, I came to FFXIV because addons and third party tools are against ToS. This is the product I paid for and installed. Players are legally bound to not using these tools so it is a fair assumption for me to make that square will uphold the rules they put in the terms of service. Someone was saying "lawsuit incoming" and yeah maybe someone should file a class action lawsuit against square for not holding up their end of the ToS. I paid for a product that was said to be a certain way and they are not holding up their end of the bargain.

I don't pay to play with people who cheat. It's false advertisement for people like that to be allowed to continue having open access to the game. It absolutely negatively impacts my experience because the end game scene is structured around abusing third party tools. Statics require it, PF requires it, the majority of people engaging in progressive level content are using it so you are inevitably going to be playing with cheaters in a team based game. There is no way of ensuring you have an honest experience in this game until they introduce an anti-cheat. The expectations the players have in end game are based on the results that cheats produce. It is toxic and bad for the health of the game. Then you have people that are in content that they have no business being in because their addons increase the level of performance they can get away with. They do not have the capacity to clear the content without the addons, yet do with the addons. This is not a healthy version of accessibility.

I'll make it simple for you to understand too, it would be like installing an aimbot in an fps because you have a motor skill issue. Obviously this is not ethical in any way at all, sure this person has really bad aim otherwise and probably couldn't even play the game, but there is never an excuse to cheat. Ever.

Also, to all the people trying to say I ever attacked a disabled person... Get a grip on reality. You're so far out of touch it's actually hilarious. You're not going to phase me by guilting me for something I never did. I checked doozer's post history and they've never once made a topic about accessibility in this game either. This thread is not the place for that talk. I do not care if they are disabled and it is not relevant to this topic. Try to keep things on topic.

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Man I really love raid gatekeeping from people who have never touched a raid before

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Originally Posted by Ivtrix

Man I really love raid gatekeeping from people who have never touched a raid before

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I mean it illustrates the point of this thread: you are expected to cheat to participate.

I really love gatekeeping of raiding from people who cheat to get by though.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

Source: Trust me bro.
Man, I would really like to see all those "ACT and whatever-that-supposed-tool-that-plays-the-game-for-you-is mandatory or kick" party finder listings.

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I never mentioned which third party tools in specific, but yes, it is an expectation to use cheats in this game for a majority of parties. Always funny to see this kind of argument being posted. You act like the only problematic cheats are the most severe ones.

At the end of the day, it's going to be a good day in eorzea when all the cheaters are removed from the experience.

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Originally Posted by HikariKurosawa

I mean it illustrates the point of this thread: you are expected to cheat to participate.

I really love gatekeeping of raiding from people who cheat to get by though.

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I’m appalled that you are accusing me of cheating with no proof. So sit down with your loser mentality because no raiding group will take you with that mentality irregardless of ToS abiding. You have a poor attitude and it really shows in this thread.

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Originally Posted by Ivtrix

I’m appalled that you are accusing me of cheating with no proof. So sit down with your loser mentality because no raiding group will take you with that mentality irregardless of ToS abiding. You have a poor attitude and it really shows in this thread.

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Be appalled I don't care. Nobody who doesn't use cheats would defend the use of cheats. You think you're being clever or subtle, but you're not. And rofl? I don't try to raid in this game because I don't want to play with cheaters. I'll raid when anti-cheat is a thing, until then I'll stick to casual content because I'm not interested in accomplishing anything meaningful when I have to group up with cheaters. Imagine wasting my time just to have an invalid sense of accomplishment. It takes too much effort to have a hollow victory.

Many of the players that do cheat, especially in a high-level context probably wouldn't be much worse off - It's a convenience factor for a lot of players, and if you introduce a competitive environment then I would argue that it's inevitable, even with streaming.

With a competition, the goal is to win, not to demonstrate sportsmanship. Whether you have an issue with that is something else entirely, but it has infested every competitive context, and will continue to do so, morality be damned.

Some of these groups already self-expose considering they have in the past uploaded clear videos which have used cheats. I don't think they are concerned with exposing themselves, considering a lot of other players stream even with them. - This issue is just maintaining competitive edge. If you are winning, and you aren't streaming, then you maintain edge. - If you're winning, and if you're streaming you given people a chance to analyze your gameplay, and then eventually get the edge, since other players would be able to determine strategies. It's ultimately their prerogative to do this

If people cared about the commercial success in this context then they will have done world race streams natively, and could use it as fundraiser, and community building, but they elect not to and instead put that onus on being community-curated, rather than on the team that work on the game - They're already gimping themselves frankly.

I can assure you regardless of the game, and regardless of the publicity of their act, e.g., streaming - It does not negate nor preclude cheating, it will just make people try and be a little more secretive about it. - It's a lot more common than you might think, when you look at the wider gaming sphere.

same old group of crazy anicheaters trying to burn down the game to save it lmao.

Static wanna use discord? that's cheat
Ultra wide screen monitor? straight to jail
watching guide? telling the GMs right now
roblox? police is homing in on your location right now

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Originally Posted by Saraide

Static wanna use discord? that's cheat
Ultra wide screen monitor? straight to jail
watching guide? telling the GMs right now
roblox? police is homing in on your location right now

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What are you blabbering about? Nobody said any of that was a problem. 1080p is not ultrawide, xeno was 100% using zoomhacks and calling it "ultrawide".

The delusion of the cheaters in this community is genuinely funny. I hope you get banned.

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Originally Posted by george357

same old group of crazy anicheaters trying to burn down the game to save it lmao.

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If you would quit the game after it became impossible to cheat, that's a good thing. All around W.

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Originally Posted by HikariKurosawa

I've never felt that way about anti-cheat in any game I've played. I can see why many people would think that way but for me it's just a technological advancement that makes gaming more fair and better.

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Sure.. in the meantime, we can disable all "cheats" in the housing department forcing single layer decorations in every house. Certainly won't piss off pretty much everyone. And WoW has some pretty heavy addons just like this game. I know; I've used them.

The only way to stop addons is to make this game console only, but since this game is going to pretty much completely phase out PS4 with the new graphics update next year, I wouldn't count on that. The only console users will be PS5, the new X-box, and whatever dedicated PS4 users that are left that are just stubborn enough to try and hang on.

PC users are here to stay and that means damage meters are too. BTW, DPS meters are even more powerful in WoW than they are here. Those calculate DPS, HOTS, DOTS, damage taken, and even more.

https://media.tenor.com/wnR1_PwA6yEAAAAC/laugh-fall.gif

I find that players using mods should be like the concept of being pantless you wouldn't go outside and let everyone know you were doing it, you wouldn't stream yourself doing it either.

And you certainly wouldn't raid with it either.

But what you do in the privacy of your own home (instance) shouldn't impact anyone else.

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Originally Posted by ManaEthielday

I find that players using mods should be like the concept of being pantless you wouldn't go outside and let everyone know you were doing it, you wouldn't stream yourself doing it either.

And you certainly wouldn't raid with it either.

But what you do in the privacy of your own home (instance) shouldn't impact anyone else.

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There's no need for all of this, just ban people who break the terms of service. It's too bad we live in a dishonest society where nobody cares about integrity or fair play. Square enix is really hurting for success. When the game is only profitable due to cheaters, it's not a good look.

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Originally Posted by HikariKurosawa

There's no need for all of this, just ban people who break the terms of service. It's too bad we live in a dishonest society where nobody cares about integrity or fair play. Square enix is really hurting for success. When the game is only profitable due to cheaters, it's not a good look.

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If you have Issues with the game for not having a anti cheat then "I hate to say it but it sounds like you don't appreciate the great game you get to play." someone once told me that, I think you should listen to that person. (spoiler alert you said that to me).

Between raiders and limsa afkers using visual mods, they would lose a ton of subscribers for no real gain. Would be a terrible idea.

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Originally Posted by HikariKurosawa

There's no need for all of this, just ban people who break the terms of service. It's too bad we live in a dishonest society where nobody cares about integrity or fair play. Square enix is really hurting for success. When the game is only profitable due to cheaters, it's not a good look.

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I mean, Square isn't really hurting for success. There are many MANY players who don't play without any add-ons or mods, anyone who plays on console for example.

My mentality is as long as you going pantsless isn't impacting anyone else, go right ahead, do whatever you want in your own house. But the second that it impacts another player's ability to play (like a toxic PF or people racing for world's first), that's not ok.

Content should be beatable without mods, people who complain it's too easy are either really good at the game or have really good add-ons (lol).

Guys, just stop. I pretty much gave up talking to this alleged person when they seemed unable to understand the difference between a zoomhack and a Viera hat. They're either thriving off the attention or they just like malding, and I don't really care which.

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Originally Posted by PredatoryCatgirl

Guys, just stop. I pretty much gave up talking to this alleged person when they seemed unable to understand the difference between a zoomhack and a Viera hat. They're either thriving off the attention or they just like malding, and I don't really care which.

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They're a troll or cannot understand people have different perspective on things, doesn't take a genius to know it's actually a way more nuanced topic then >put anti cheat, game fix. But if you don't share the exact same opinion as them then you've obviously got ill intentions!

I'd lean more towards the troll side, I made two comments because I've been watching this thread and another that I choose not to post (also a random dps thread where they kept bringing it up, where i was posting). But you're likely right, they aren't really worth the time and effort, they're likely enjoying the attention.

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Originally Posted by Rithy255

They're a troll or cannot understand people have different perspective on things, doesn't take a genius to know it's actually a way more nuanced topic then >put anti cheat, game fix. But if you don't share the exact same opinion as them then you've obviously got ill intentions!

I'd lean more towards the troll side, I made two comments because I've been watching this thread and another that I choose not to post (also a random dps thread where they kept bringing it up, where i was posting). But you're likely right, they aren't really worth the time and effort, they're likely enjoying the attention.

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Yeah, troll. No functional human being is this incapable of understanding an argument. They've yet to reply honestly to anything, and I just saw them strawman you.

Is this the part where we also tell them how plugins and bots have been a thing for years in FF11 as well and also given a blind eye by the GMs and devs?

I think people are forgetting one important thing.

This is Final Fantasy XIV. This game is known around the world as "that modded MMO" because of all the junk that people install. The most popular plugins have millions of downloads. There are almost as many people using Mare as the total number on Steam. Nearly every screenshot on Twitter is modded. People brazenly use them on Twitch and YouTube. There is a good chance that people's first impressions of the game are through plugins and modded screenshots. People play this game because it's moddable. That's the legacy that Final Fantasy XIV leaves for the MMO genre.

And it's funny that people bring up "other games", because even they have limits. Final Fantasy XIV has no server-side cheat detection. The game cannot even scan its own files against an internal checksum. As a result, there are no limits to what players can inject into the game. No other MMO allows for this. Final Fantasy XIV is vastly unique in its own genre. Funny for a game that wasn't supposed to have add-ons.

Square Enix isn't exactly afraid of anti-cheats, they're afraid of being involved because, ultimately, they do not care. FFXIV was supposed to be a ten-year project with FF16 following it up. We are on what they call "maintenance mode", and if that isn't clear now, it will be in 7.0 when you get 24 hours of cutscenes and no endgame.

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

FFXIV was supposed to be a ten-year project with FF16 following it up. We are on what they call "maintenance mode",

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https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/..._protester.jpg

Now this reminds me of Aion before they took a massive stance way back on it. I remember login out and couple days later login to find out only 2 out of 300+ was let in the guild. All the rest was banned. I can see it happening here soon.

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Originally Posted by PredatoryCatgirl

https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/..._protester.jpg

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Here, I can get that for ya.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FU-f-AWWYAIIGW0.jpg

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

Square Enix isn't exactly afraid of anti-cheats, they're afraid of being involved because, ultimately, they do not care. FFXIV was supposed to be a ten-year project with FF16 following it up. We are on what they call "maintenance mode", and if that isn't clear now, it will be in 7.0 when you get 24 hours of cutscenes and no endgame.

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This is true, my dad works at Square Enix and is personal friends with Yoshi-P, once over dinner he let this slip and my dad told me but made me promise not to tell, but now that it's out in the open, I can confirm this.

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Originally Posted by hynaku

Now this reminds me of Aion before they took a massive stance way back on it. I remember login out and couple days later login to find out only 2 out of 300+ was let in the guild. All the rest was banned. I can see it happening here soon.

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How's that copium treating you? Looks like you're on a lot of it

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

I think people are forgetting one important thing.

This is Final Fantasy XIV. This game is known around the world as "that modded MMO" because of all the junk that people install. The most popular plugins have millions of downloads. There are almost as many people using Mare as the total number on Steam. Nearly every screenshot on Twitter is modded. People brazenly use them on Twitch and YouTube. There is a good chance that people's first impressions of the game are through plugins and modded screenshots. People play this game because it's moddable. That's the legacy that Final Fantasy XIV leaves for the MMO genre.

And it's funny that people bring up "other games", because even they have limits. Final Fantasy XIV has no server-side cheat detection. The game cannot even scan its own files against an internal checksum. As a result, there are no limits to what players can inject into the game. No other MMO allows for this. Final Fantasy XIV is vastly unique in its own genre. Funny for a game that wasn't supposed to have add-ons.

Square Enix isn't exactly afraid of anti-cheats, they're afraid of being involved because, ultimately, they do not care. FFXIV was supposed to be a ten-year project with FF16 following it up. We are on what they call "maintenance mode", and if that isn't clear now, it will be in 7.0 when you get 24 hours of cutscenes and no endgame.

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Nobody knows FFXIV for those reasons. Not sure what discord communities you're in but it's an echo chamber.

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Originally Posted by HikariKurosawa

Nobody knows FFXIV for those reasons. Not sure what discord communities you're in but it's an echo chamber.

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You sure would know about echo chambers LMAO

Also look at the ffxiv and gpose hashtag on Twitter and stop being in denial

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

You sure would know about echo chambers LMAO

Also look at the ffxiv and gpose hashtag on Twitter and stop being in denial

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LAMO XD HAHAHAHA

Like 1000 erp posts this week? I don't think it's a very popular tag. Probably follow botted too. Get those attention seeking addons for twitter lol.

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Originally Posted by HikariKurosawa

LAMO XD HAHAHAHA

Like 1000 erp posts this week? I don't think it's a very popular tag. Probably follow botted too. Get those attention seeking addons for twitter lol.

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https://media.tenor.com/PuDjF3HWwmgA...ope-seethe.gif

https://imgur.com/BAzK2jB.png

Anticheat on the PC plattform is literaly impossible to implement. Many games with anticheat mechanisms sitll have many cheaters and botters. So anticheat does more harm than good.


Cheers

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Originally Posted by Larirawiel

Anticheat on the PC plattform is literaly impossible to implement. Many games with anticheat mechanisms sitll have many cheaters and botters. So anticheat does more harm than good.

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Final Fantasy XIV is one of the few online games which does not have server-side cheat detection. It is also by far the most modder-friendly and cheat-friendly MMO ever made. It is one of the only online games which allows you to inject your own, third-party API for controlling all game events including in a competitive environment. It is also one of the few games which allows you to alter server packets without being detected.

But then again, that's why many people play FFXIV, isn't it? I wonder what Yoshida thinks when his life work has turned into who can install the sickest mod and break the gameplay the most?

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

https://imgur.com/BAzK2jB.png

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I hate this because this is facts

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

Final Fantasy XIV is one of the few online games which does not have server-side cheat detection.

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We do not really know what they have on the server side. ;)

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

But then again, that's why many people play FFXIV, isn't it? I wonder what Yoshida thinks when his life work has turned into who can install the sickest mod and break the gameplay the most?

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I would say, the option to mod the client is one of the biggest selling points of FF14. There is a huge community behind it. It would be very easy to prevent it.


Cheers

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

Final Fantasy XIV is one of the few online games which does not have server-side cheat detection. It is also by far the most modder-friendly and cheat-friendly MMO ever made. It is one of the only online games which allows you to inject your own, third-party API for controlling all game events including in a competitive environment. It is also one of the few games which allows you to alter server packets without being detected.

But then again, that's why many people play FFXIV, isn't it? I wonder what Yoshida thinks when his life work has turned into who can install the sickest mod and break the gameplay the most?

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Four assertions and only one of them is correct, and that's only really on a technicality. We're swinging for the fences today, as usual.

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Originally Posted by Sindele

Four assertions and only one of them is correct, and that's only really on a technicality. We're swinging for the fences today, as usual.

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https://files.catbox.moe/lv3mtg.jpg

Good bait, good bait. But instead of responding, I'm in fact going to support your position.

Speaking of which, when's the next world first race? You ARE looking forward to it, right?

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

https://files.catbox.moe/lv3mtg.jpg

Good bait, good bait. But instead of responding, I'm in fact going to support your position.

Speaking of which, when's the next world first race? You ARE looking forward to it, right?

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You mean the event where a group of cheaters posts a screenshot when they clear the content?

What I don't get is why square doesn't just change the ToS so people are allowed to use mods if they're okay with it. Then nobody could complain. The environment as is is just toxic.

This whole game is founded on toxic positivity it seems, bunch of fake losers RPing at something they're not.

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Originally Posted by Larirawiel

Anticheat on the PC plattform is literaly impossible to implement. Many games with anticheat mechanisms sitll have many cheaters and botters. So anticheat does more harm than good.


Cheers

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Originally Posted by Larirawiel

I would say, the option to mod the client is one of the biggest selling points of FF14. There is a huge community behind it. It would be very easy to prevent it.


Cheers

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Same poster. These people have zero logic. Elon musk is right we really do need a neurolink. Feels like we're living in idiocracy. Third party mod your brain out of being inept.

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Originally Posted by HikariKurosawa

Same poster. These people have zero logic. Elon musk is right we really do need a neurolink. Feels like we're living in idiocracy. Third party mod your brain out of being inept.

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There are some technical reasons why i wrote it and my postings do not contradict. :) It is only a matter of effort, the botters/cheaters have to do to overcome the anticheat mechanisms. You can technically prevent a working code injection. This will propably stop all textures and model altering mods, damage meters etc. Code injection is also very easy to do for the players. Just start the character altering mod/parser with Administrator rights or use a special launcher and you are done. And that is the reason why so many players do that. Because it is easy. If you stop a working code injection, then many players and developers of those tools will simply give up.

But when it comes to stop Gil selling botters, they will not give up so quickly because real money is involved. For botting, teleport hacks etc. code injection is not needed. And if you put the whole Windows installation into a virtual machine then you can do what you want with the game from the VM host. But setting up such a virtual machine, which allows you to modify a game, running in the guest OS is way harder than starting a special launcher with elevated rights.

So no, you cannot prevent cheats and bots but you can raise the effort, which would be needed to run them successfully.


Cheers