NA relic weapon

The latency excuse is a load of crock. Though I have died before on the other side of the battlefield which was funny. I've done these fights enough to realize that anyone actually blaming their baddiness on latency probably really is a baddy.

Latency excuse is really getting old.

I like that they're making challenging battles and dungeons for us to do and I'm not saying that the dungeons or battles can't be done in NA but the fact is everyone should have an equal chance to try that content out and you can tell there's a distinct difference between the latency in NA/ EU (and all the other places having the latency issues) compared to little or non existence latency issues the JP have. And it's not just the Ifrit fight people I'm talking about, it's the UI latency, the longer time it takes to skip Cutscenes or gather. You play this game for over a year and tell me that doesn't add up.

Now look people, I'm not saying the fight is impossible for NA/EU players. I'm also not refuting that the damage calculations are done before the animation starts, that may also be true.

But here's the deal: Even if there is lag because the server isn't very good, and even if japanese people are getting lag too, people outside of japan gets the same lag as japanese players, plus 1-200 ms depending on region. Japanese players may have bad lag, but it is physically impossible for non-JPs to not have worse lag than them again.

Now as I said, this doesn't make the fight impossible for us, but it does raise the amount of skill required for us to beat it. Yes, sucky players will make you wipe to ifrit, but the limit on what defines a "too sucky player" is stricter for people outside of japan. A player in japan doesn't need to be as good at dodging and predicting as a player in east coast US or in europe needs to be.

So if anything, NA/EU relic owners are likely to be better players than japanese players! Go us!

(Notice how i turned something bad into something cool? Wasn't that awesome?)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TokyieRage

They don't have the same problems as us. I'm sure they get some latency, as it's impossible not to. But regardless it isn't as bad as NA/EU players have it. Yoshi-P and the DevTeam has admitted it.

---

You do realize Yoshida himself said JP players also report latency issues with XIV, right? Everyone has latency issues but it in no way determines your performance in ifrit other than using it as a scape goat for poor performance.

Like I said, everyone I've cleared ifrit with that wasn't Japanese just happens to live in Japan where latency doesn't make it hard to dodge, yes?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mirage

So if anything, NA/EU relic owners are likely to be better players than japanese players! Go us!

(Notice how i turned something bad into something cool? Wasn't that awesome?)

---

And yet most NA shouts "THM/BLMx3+ needed!" for everything.

so:

Quote:

---

Now as I said, this doesn't make the fight impossible for us, but it does raise the amount of skill required for us to beat it.

---

No.

Quote:

---

es, sucky players will make you wipe to ifrit, but the limit on what defines a "too sucky player" is stricter for people outside of japan.

---

No.

Quote:

---

A player in japan doesn't need to be as good at dodging and predicting as a player

---

Yes they do.

Quote:

---

So if anything, NA/EU relic owners are likely to be better players than japanese players! Go us!

---

Once again, no.

I also think a lot of the JP linkshells went forward earlier than NA with fewer unfinished relics, while NA linkshells pressed on with Hamlet grind to emerge later with more.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elexia

Mirage is wrong.

---

Please explain how the data travels from the server to europe in the same 70 ms that it needs to reach japanese players. If you can't, I'm sorry, you're wrong.

Let me take an example to clear up why it is impossible that japanese players are not experiencing less lag:

First, let's assume that there is a lot of inherent lag in the server. Most people seem to agree with this, even Yoshida has said this.

I don't know exactly how much this inherent server lag is, but it doesn't really matter. I'll use 150 ms for now. There, now every player in the game has a base of 150 ms lag.

Now let's say the server makes Ultramonster uses one of his fancy AoE attacks This particular attack has a charge time of 1 seconds. Because of the server's inherent lag that we've put at 150 ms, it will take 150 ms from the server decides that ifrit will use this attack until this data exits the server and enters the internet.

This data is now underway to the clients in this particular instance. after 70 ms, it reaches a japanese client. The client runs at 60 fps and is set to a buffer of 3 pre-rendered frames, equaling a local client input lag of 50 ms.

This adds up to a total lag of 270 ms, which means that 270 ms after the server initiated the attack, the japanese player sees the animation start. The japanese player is pretty good, and manages to interpret this data and respond to it within 250 ms. The signal now travels back to the server, and uses the same 270 ms to get back. All this added together comes to a total of 790 ms. Barely within the time limit of 1 second (1000 ms). The japanese player is able to evade the attack with a margin of 210 ms, and felt that that was a close call.

Now we move to a player from the Netherlands. A central location in Europe's internet infrastructure.

The server still has 150 ms of inherent lag, but 70 seconds after the data was sent from the server, it still has not gotten out of Japan. Finally, after 250 ms, the Dutch client receives the data. His client also has 3 frames buffered at 60 fps and therefore gets 50 additional ms of input lag there. we're now up to 450 ms lag. The dutch player is as good as the japanese players, and reacts in 250 ms. His client now sends his action back to the server, and the server receives this 450 ms later, 1150 ms after the attack was initiated by the server, and 150 ms after the time limit was over. He is hit by the Ultramonster's attack, and takes 1500 points of damage.

To counteract this, SE decides "hey let's increase the charge time for that attack to 1.5 seconds instead of 1 second". Result: The attack is now dodgeable by the good dutch player by a margin of 350 ms. The japanese player can now dodge it with a margin of 770 ms.

Conclusion: The japanese player has roughly twice as much time to react to an attack than the dutch player. Also known as "much easier". You can't avoid this unless you want the server to add artificial lag to japanese clients only to make it an even playing field for everyone, and that is never going to happen.



So what can SE do to reduce lag? They can do two things:

1. Reduce the lag inherent to the server. If they manage to get this down from our "assumed" 150 ms to 10 ms, they'll reduce the lag by 140 ms for all players all over the world.

2. Create a client that can supply a stable 60 fps frame rate with 0 pre-rendered frames buffered, reducing input lag on the client side by 50 ms.

The total reduction from this is 190 ms. Apply this to the previous numbers, and we get that the Japanese player will get a lag of 80 ms, while the dutch player will get a lag of 250 ms. If we assume the same 1 second charge time for Ultramonster's AoE, the japanese player will now have a total reaction window of 920 ms, and the dutch player will have a total reaction window of 750 ms. This is obviously better, and makes the effective difference between the two smaller, but the fact that the japanese player still has a slight advantage is crystal clear.

Until SE wants to make an even harder fight, where you have an AoE/gaze attack with a charge time of half a second. Then we're again in a situation where an attack is hard to dodge for a japanese player, and extremely hard/impossible to dodge for an european.

There is a 3rd thing SE can do, of course, but I'm sure you know what it is, and know that SE will probably not do it.

-edit-
And again, I am not saying that Ifrit Extreme is impossible for EU and NA players.

How do you define double? Double of 0.1sec is 0.2sec means nothing.

Devs already said the diff is 0.3sec at most when it comes to latency.

All depends on how big your reaction window is. If you've got a total of 5 seconds to react, 0.3 means very little. If you have 1 second to react, it means a lot. A difference of 300ms ping can absolutely be the difference between "always" reacting in time and only "sometimes" reacting in time, if the reaction window is just 1 second.

FF11 has a slower combat system than FF14, yet there were still many skills there that would have been evadable with just 200 ms less ping. Gaze attacks with really fast startups, for example.

We have all watched the videos and done ifrit hard ourselves. JP players have time to finish their skills and get out, if we are in a skill or even thinking about a skill NA players get hit. If you think its ok / normal to be many yards out of a crack visually but still get hit by it, then you deserve a terrible game. Some of us just want a game that works, sorry if that offends you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valtrex

We have all watched the videos and done ifrit hard ourselves. JP players have time to finish their skills and get out, if we are in a skill or even thinking about a skill NA players get hit. If you think its ok / normal to be many yards out of a crack visually but still get hit by it, then you deserve a terrible game. Some of us just want a game that works, sorry if that offends you.

---

This.

/10char

Fixed in 2.0!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DarthTaru

I also think a lot of the JP linkshells went forward earlier than NA with fewer unfinished relics, while NA linkshells pressed on with Hamlet grind to emerge later with more.

---

I think Scorpion (first afaik) actually went in with 8 unfinished to Ifrit Extreme, maybe 7. There were two Curtanas, a Bravura, two Stardust Rods, a Gae Bolg, and an Artemis Bow at least from that first clear. They probably, apart from being dedicated, skilled, and well-equipped, simply kept up with the predicted requirements for the Relic quest as they were being discussed, so they already had some things ready to go on patch day.

You do realize people in this thread saying latency isn't an issue haven't even attempted extreme ifrit yet...

Elexia
Eliseus
Henry Jekyll

But please, continue to express your opinion on "this" encounter...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Meatdawg

You do realize people in this thread saying latency isn't an issue haven't even attempted extreme ifrit yet...

Elexia
Eliseus
Henry Jekyll

But please, continue to express your opinion on "this" encounter...

---

I have actually, my relic is actually on this stage, but please...continue to say latency prevents you from beating any form of ifrit beyond easy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elexia

I have actually, my relic is actually on this stage, but please...continue to say latency prevents you from beating any form of ifrit beyond easy.

---

1. I Never complained about latency
2. Which character has your relic?

This one that was played a month ago? http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...icuid=12807706
Or this one that is level 1? http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...icuid=12842575

Actually not worth explaining.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Meatdawg

1. I Never complained about latency
2. Which character has your relic?

This one that was played a month ago? http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...icuid=12807706
Or this one that is level 1? http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...icuid=12842575

---

Why are you people so hard pressed to believe that no one can beat ifrit due to latency? I beat Ifrit Hard recently with no troubles dodging .-.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Meatdawg

You do realize people in this thread saying latency isn't an issue haven't even attempted extreme ifrit yet...

Elexia
Eliseus
Henry Jekyll

But please, continue to express your opinion on "this" encounter...

---

Ah, wiped tonight with Ifrit Extreme at like 30%.

Latency was not an issue at all.

Owned?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Meatdawg

You do realize people in this thread saying latency isn't an issue haven't even attempted extreme ifrit yet...

Elexia
Eliseus
Henry Jekyll

But please, continue to express your opinion on "this" encounter...

---

I'm sorry you are bad and can't move, would you like me to play your character for you?

I am flattered though you spent your time to look up my character.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DarthTaru

Ah, wiped tonight with Ifrit Extreme at like 30%.

Latency was not an issue at all.

Owned?

---

"But you wouldn't have wiped if latency problems didn't exist at all!"

So far we're getting stuck around 25-45% personally and yes it's purely because of latency issues!

(Realistically though, it's mostly because of animation lock with poor timing on the WHM's part because she starts panicking.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DarthTaru

Ah, wiped tonight with Ifrit Extreme at like 30%.

Latency was not an issue at all.

Owned?

---

Reading comprehension is hard. Did I say Darth Taru ? Did I complain about Latency?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tupsi

Why are you people so hard pressed to believe that no one can beat ifrit due to latency? I beat Ifrit Hard recently with no troubles dodging .-.

---

Damn Ifirt Hard? I am owned sir...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Meatdawg

Damn Ifirt Hard? I am owned sir...

---

Yeah it's almost as if SE didn't put the higher level Ifrit on the same cluster or anything. If you have trouble in Extreme "due to latency" you would have trouble with Ifrit Hard "due to latency" I'm pretty sure. Extreme has a different flow of battle but it's not an entirely different fight to the point it would have it's own latency problems.

Maybe it will be slightly more taxing on your hardware due to more graphical objects which can slow your game down, if anything.

I always thought this forum didn't use the term baddie enough ><

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Krausus

I always thought this forum didn't use the term baddie enough ><

---

Seeing baddie reminds me of Graal Online.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elexia

Seeing baddie reminds me of Graal Online.

---

brings back memories of Age of Conan for me

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Krausus

brings back memories of Age of Conan for me

---

WoW sadly for me, matter of fact a lot of stuff I never saw before till I played WoW, like it's weird but u mad bro is a good one for example.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eliseus

WoW sadly for me, matter of fact a lot of stuff I never saw before till I played WoW, like it's weird but u mad bro is a good one for example.

---

yeah lol. I'm sure a lot of it came from WoW or maybe even Ultima online anything with a PvP presence really.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elexia

"But you wouldn't have wiped if latency problems didn't exist at all!"

So far we're getting stuck around 25-45% personally and yes it's purely because of latency issues!

(Realistically though, it's mostly because of animation lock with poor timing on the WHM's part because she starts panicking.)

---

Way to throw your WHM under the bus on a public forum!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DarthTaru

Way to throw your WHM under the bus on a public forum!

---

Lol she knows I <3 her.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Meatdawg

Damn Ifirt Hard? I am owned sir...

---

lol

In fairness the occasional latency issue arises, if that is what it is. I have been hit by an eruption that was almost 3/4's of the way on the other side of the arena. In my experience, though, these are pretty isolated incidents. Most of the time I can avoid eruptions and don't need to clear them by hundreds of feet to escape.

It might be fair to blame the occasional death or even wipe on this but I think it's bogus to blame a lasting, eternal inability to beat it on latency issues. Groups good enough to beat it will beat it, they might just get trolled by phantom explosions once every 10 fights or so along the way.

o.O just wanted to know if any NA/EU got a relic or not lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taei

o.O just wanted to know if any NA/EU got a relic or not lol

---

Wait another week or two this topic will have more significance!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ShinMetsu

I'm sorry, but your statement is so full of crap.
There definitely is a difference in latency, but that difference isn't gonna make or break you really.
And if you don't get yours hits off in time it's your fault really, gotta have a feeling for when to stop too.

Ontopic:
So far on Gungnir only ALCA and I think Moonlight Dance beat it, no NA LS yet.
The only NA LS fighting Ifrit so far appears to be Blizzard..
13 Nails are kinda nasty, but I feel like we got that down pretty soon.
Other than that it's basicly easy, I'd be surprised if really no NA LS beat it yet :O

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1CfZ5wUQRQ : < One of our tries btw

---

Another JP LS called "diluca" has them as well. Took this screenshot last Thursday. It could very well just be the Moonlight Dance group though since I've seen a couple of them hopping between the two LS, but I'm too lazy to look into it right now.

http://i.imgur.com/3Bp0v.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elexia

Wait another week or two this topic will have more significance!

---

Its significance was clear before its creation to the higher intellects.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mirage

yet there were still many skills there that would have been evadable with just 200 ms less ping. Gaze attacks with really fast startups, for example.

---

Oh come on if you couldn't dodge gaze attacks in XI there is something wrong on your end. My situation in Canada may not be as bad as EU but it was childsplay to avoid unless you were caught in animation lock.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taei

o.O just wanted to know if any NA/EU got a relic or not lol

---

Blizzard LS on Gungnir just defeatd Ifrit (Extreme) a few hours ago. (7 NA 1 EU) We completed 8 relics (2 PLD, 2 WHM, BLM, DRG, WAR, BRD). Also have 4 more people on that stage (2 DRG, WHM, WAR) that we are rotating in now.

The fight is about knowing what & when Ifrit is going to do. Latency does not prevent you from winning this fight. If you are A) in the right position before he does a WS and B) do not get caught in animation lock when he does do that WS, then any reasonably skilled group should be able to avoid everything.

From that point it is taking down his horns ASAP or else get caught by some less avoidable WS's and having the DPS to burn through the nail phases. Practice makes perfect.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crimzon

Blizzard LS on Gungnir just defeatd Ifrit (Extreme) a few hours ago. (7 NA 1 EU) We completed 8 relics (2 PLD, 2 WHM, BLM, DRG, WAR, BRD). Also have 4 more people on that stage (2 DRG, WHM, WAR) that we are rotating in now.

The fight is about knowing what & when Ifrit is going to do. Latency does not prevent you from winning this fight. If you are A) in the right position before he does a WS and B) do not get caught in animation lock when he does do that WS, then any reasonably skilled group should be able to avoid everything.

From that point it is taking down his horns ASAP or else get caught by some less avoidable WS's and having the DPS to burn through the nail phases. Practice makes perfect.

---

grats to you and all of your LS/grp mates. and just let me say yes, i am jelly :P