Dawntrails doesn’t feel like Final Fantasy

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Originally Posted by CStrife912

Your passionate but you are more reasonable then you were I think once you let out all your rants it all dialled down haha. There is plenty of people who have multiple alts and its like we cant even debate because of post count limits so we just might as well keep quiet and it gives those people a false sense of victory in that instance lol Curiousity what brought you back to this games shores once again.

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Victory ?

There is no victory or defeat here ? Just people sharing your opinions. Sounds like some of you need to take a chill pill and realize no one is even trying to fight other than you.

thank u, next

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Originally Posted by FenyxRising

Victory ?

There is no victory or defeat here ? Just people sharing your opinions. Sounds like some of you need to take a chill pill and realize no one is even trying to fight other than you.

thank u, next

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There is very little sharing opinion its more whoever shouts louder then the other and you yourself should know that is how it is. Im nice and chill XD I don't fight with anyone, if I was to fight it would be for actual moderation in all honestly, thank you next.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

It doesn't help that it's already being described as a 'vacation'. I doubt there will be any major stakes given that the second coming of the apocalypse resulted in the increasingly smarmy protagonists bragging about walking away with not even a scar to show for it.

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Yeah it's extremely disappointing given that most of post-Endwalker's content was a vacation and even the allegedly serious Void storyline can't be spared from stupid slice of life scenes that I don't come to FF for. There are people who would seriously try to argue that they're as relevant as the tavern/banquet style scenes in FFXVI but I have better things to do than point out how obviously different they are in terms of tone and purpose.

It's as if they took all the feedback that people who criticized Endwalker's story over and then turned that into 7.0. I have no idea why they would want to alienate and divide up the playerbase like this but FFXIV players deserve better. Leave the jokes and slice of life stuff for Hildibrand and other side content and give us an actual FF story in a location that's actually memorable. Because I would never be able to tell you what any of the new DT locations names are from memory.

You can't tell me to "go relax!" in Island Sanctuary for 2 years on top of "see how much we looove you!" in the Myths raids and the other forced in moments we've seen this expansion and then decide that 7.0 needs even more of that. I don't know how else to describe this stuff other than difficult to sit through and embarrassing to be associated with.

When people ask me what kind of games I like to play I don't mention FFXIV anymore because a) Endwalker has almost no fun content and b) the game has flown way too far from what brought players like me to it in terms of the setting and story. I would never admit in real life that I played the mmorpg that decided having a hideous cgi model eat a taco in the trailer. From the outsider's perspective the state of FFXIV just keeps getting more and more bizarre.

We needed a strong new start after these horrible lull in story and content but it seems we're not getting that at all. At least FFXVI is getting more content, I have 0 issue with profits going from whatever it is FFXIV has become to fund the game that I liked better.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Stuff

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Granted I would agree that they should of handled the void stuff with a bit more decorum but I am still fine with whats there and they overall did a better job with the 4 lords unlike the material they came from FF4. Slice of life isn't inherently bad though it depends how its used and honestly I don't think its that bad. What is an actual 'FF' story lol....there are plenty of FF titles heck go watch rebirth and see some of the mini game humour stuff that is likely to pop up there if you know you know. FF games have always had silly moments its not uncommon, also the point of Eorzea is to expand its world and bring us to places mentioned...a new place cant be memorable if we've never gone there lol...once we are there and they do good with it only then can it become memorable that just makes little sense what you said there lol.

Im not even going to comment on your weird hatred for food and I would never admit to liking this game....like seriously who cares what you like....no one has a right to dictate or judge what you like game wise from an outsider in. Also we don't know what the tone is yet because we've been given 1/3 of a trailer which could easily change tone with subsequent pieces slotted in...its too soon to say....will agree on FF16 getting more content is nice depends what it is though...but also FF14 is a themepark MMO with a 16+ age rating....16 is 18 or mature whatever country your in...that set its tone and direction and its not comparable honestly, not even the darkest moments of 14 match some of the stuff 16 done because it never intended to go that far...14 is about as dark as most FF titles honestly only 16 pushed the envelope a bit more but only because they showed not told it.

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Originally Posted by Aword3213

I don't know why people on the internet always resort to "live rent free in your head" as trump card or something, but I'll oblige.

CBU3, Yoshi-P, FFXIV, and evil MMO overlord Square Enix all live rent free in your head desipte the constant dissatisfaction and disappointment.

I guess I'm the biggest winner today.

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Yea it really isnt the own some people think it is, atleast not always. If I see a weirdo do something weird, i'm gonna remember that.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

You can't tell me to "go relax!" in Island Sanctuary for 2 years

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Did you look beyond the trailer? The keynote actually told us far more and revealed some of the things we will be doing that interested me a lot more than this vacation concept.

https://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/lds/...4qfpOkqLGg.jpg
https://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/lds/...bBDFMSR6G8.jpg
https://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/lds/...G1MUk_4CXU.jpg

What I recall was the mountains will have people big and small.

I bred chocobos until I got a Golden one that could walk on water like Jesus to get to some island where I found a rock that let me summon 12 jerks that one-shot the evil dude who summon a meteor because of his literal alien mom.

Breeding birds literally led to saving the world.

Welcome to Final Fantasy.

https://i.imgur.com/fZR0Y9X.png

OP is obsessed with medieval Europe so I knew this thread was going to happen eventually since Tural isn't covered in castles and princesses with pointy hats.

As much as I'm tired of jungles and arid zones, at least they're adding in more clutter into zones so hopefully it'll be less bleak than the three Ala Mhigan mountain zones we got and different enough from Thavnair and Rak'tika's jungles. We've only been shown 2 zones though so there's hope for more variation later on. If the swirl pattern designs on the map are anything to go by, we still have South Tural and Meracydia to be unveiled later.

There's not much out there for fantasy featuring pre-Columbian American or African (if we do go to Meracydia) inspired cultures and aesthetics so this could be neat if done right.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

-snip-

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I found your take interesting, then I saw your signature and I can't decide if you're a troll or not.

"Doesn't feel like Final Fantasy" lol

lmao

oh man you are the best comedian

Probably should have stayed on that hiatus to be honest. You don't seem welcome here XD.

https://imgflip.com/i/7zbk6k

I feel like people are going to dub the expansion Downtrail with how little excitement there is for it at the moment.

♪ Life is like a hurricane
♪ here in Tural!
♪ Big fat tacos, S-Rank trains
♪ led by cat gals!
♪ Such devastation, might meld determination,
♪ DAWNTRAILS! WOOO-OO!!!

(Okay I just thought it was funny OP consistently called the expansion "Dawntrails," plural, and it made me think of the Duck Tales song)

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Originally Posted by Aldath

I found your take interesting, then I saw your signature and I can't decide if you're a troll or not.

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I've been mostly consistent about my stances. I'm also pretty unapologetic about being a FFXVI fanboy, even if I recognize that the game has some flaws in both writing/gameplay aspects. But at least that game didn't waste my time the way that the recent MSQ has in Endwalker with Zero and the various foods they've wasted the animation budget on.

You do not court players like me with stuff like taco cat, let alone the uninspired Timbuktu aesthetic DT seems to be going for. There's no sense of awe, urgency, or magic in that trailer nor in any of the story points that have been revealed so far. Why should I care about an alleged division between the scions when to date they've never been able to commit to any real conflict between them? Why should I care about Erenville who has an even more bland personality than Zero? Why should I trust whatever is going on in XIV when they are at complete odds with the other CBU3 game that I gravitated to so strongly as I did back in the Heavensward days of FFXIV when the game still took itself seriously?

But I guess this was inevitable when you let a writer decide that their characters can go ahead and destroy most of the known universe, leave the world godless, and turn every single bad guy faction into another copypasted good guy faction so everyone can hold hands together. This kind of writing and messaging feels insulting and preachy as an adult, though all in all I find it so much more heavy-handed in XIV compared to XVI.

As I've said before, it feels like every single pillar that held this game up has come crashing down over the course of this expansion. The story got smashed to pieces because they decided to rush it and then went on to use the trial questline as the MSQ. Gameplay for most jobs including my main one feels stale and boring. Content has been a disaster with nothing but bugged releasing like "The winning number is 0!" and other flops like Criterion and Eureka Orthos.

FFXIV in its current form is completely unrecognizable to me and I want to see it do better. Except it can't because at this point I have no reason to believe any feedback that isn't 200% positive is making it through to the proper channels. The situation is severe enough now to go completely drop any pretense of having to sugarcoat or "say a positive thing for every negative thing you say" because Endwalker is just that bad and Dawntrails might even be worse.

They need to do better. Simple as.

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Originally Posted by Fyrebrand

♪ Life is like a hurricane
♪ here in Tural!
♪ Big fat tacos, S-Rank trains
♪ led by cat gals!
♪ Such devastation, might meld determination,
♪ DAWNTRAILS! WOOO-OO!!!

(Okay I just thought it was funny OP consistently called the expansion "Dawntrails," plural, and it made me think of the Duck Tales song)

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Ok everyone, shut it down. Fyrebrand just won the internet. OP is irrelevant in the face of such devastation. This needs to be a thing. Anyone good at editing wanna take a crack?

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Originally Posted by Fyrebrand

♪ Life is like a hurricane
♪ here in Tural!
♪ Big fat tacos, S-Rank trains
♪ led by cat gals!
♪ Such devastation, might meld determination,
♪ DAWNTRAILS! WOOO-OO!!!

(Okay I just thought it was funny OP consistently called the expansion "Dawntrails," plural, and it made me think of the Duck Tales song)

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I want the song to be played on a ukulele.

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Originally Posted by Zakuyia

Probably should have stayed on that hiatus to be honest. You don't seem welcome here XD.

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He's fine lol
Its just fun and easy to laugh at him because he says alot of silly things, and also because he keeps saying he's quitting, just to come back next patch with another whole thread to complain about something. Often about hating the light-hearted tone and how much he wants FF to be this gritty Medieval type of game he clearly likes.

And now hes on a high just because some more youtubers are saying ""Negative"" things about FFXIV. So he wants to @#*$#* himself and act like he was right....when plenty of us already have said there were issues with the game Narratively and Content-wise.
Sure, I was on abit of Hopium, because I dont like to judge things before they happen, and things can always change and surprise us. Ah well.

And hey, we dunk on the guy, but plenty of times Ive said that he does make sense sometimes. So its not like he's Completely wrong about anything. In some cases

Well I'll agree that all the burger eating and fun and holidays was not what I wanted to see and that it was the least exciting teaser trailer we've ever had. It is like they double downed on the burger eating after your complaints as you said. :D

The fight that took place was about the only interesting thing to me and what was revealed after about visiting some mountains with some sort of dark goings on.

I'm not entirely sure how it doesn't feel like Final Fantasy...but sure.

I am getting kind of tired with the food bit myself, but I don't really view it as a big deal when used occasionally during the MSQ. I just don't like when it used as fan-service hype because "omg best boy eat TACO!!!1!!11". To be fair to Graha though, my mans deserves a good taco.

I'm of a similar mind to Jeeqbit, the fight was really the only thing interesting to me, but I am welcome to a change of pace. At least personally, I don't want some gigantic big bad, I'm craving an adventure, a change of pace. I can agree with the sentiment of wanting some actual stakes though, I'd like some build up to it, maybe near the end of Dawntrail.

I'm waiting for the next trailer to get any further opinions on the actual trailers themselves, we didn't really get a whole lot in the teaser, which is to be expected.

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Originally Posted by Zairava

I'm craving an adventure, a change of pace. I can agree with the sentiment of wanting some actual stakes though, I'd like some build up to it, maybe near the end of Dawntrail.

I'm waiting for the next trailer to get any further opinions on the actual trailers themselves, we didn't really get a whole lot in the teaser, which is to be expected.

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The least they could have done is give us an adventure somewhere people actually wanted to go to but with how they let the writing bulldoze 90% of the setting in Endwalker all that's left is the thrilling city of lizards who need the scions to go topple their current regime. It's just so bland and uninspired. At this point I would rather they just completely steal 1:1 settings from other FF games like Besaid or Bevelle from FFX instead of what that trailer and keynote proceded to bore me with.

It's not as if there weren't other more relevant places we could have gone to like Corvos which they kept teasing all expansion only to pull this underwhelming surprise. DT is lacking in basically everything from the base plot they described which we know will have to be carried by the same stagnant characters they refuse to get rid of because of fanservice to the generic jungle.jpeg they copypasted into the New World. Thavnair was already soulless, but this looks even worse.

I've lived in tropical countries for a huge chunk of my life and to see them take all the worst aesthetics and aspects of that and make that into an entire expansion we have to sit through for 3 years before the game might actually go somewhere interesting isn't something that sits right with me. If there are people who really want to visit that as an expansion then I can only assume they've never had to deal with stuff like dengue, blackouts, and all the other wonders of the tropics and developing countries I spent most of my life trying to get out of. That weird bit about how the New World was "non-industrial" or something akin to that also struck me as odd pr speech. If the New World in FFXIV had some kind of Spanish or English colonial aspect maybe it would give those of us who aren't crazy about the city built entirely out of sticks something to be midly excited for, but nothing I've seen so far even comes close to lukewarm.

Japan is also leaning towards that more tropical/warm climate from what I understand so I guess from the JP perspective is similar to my own where we look at stuff like the DT jungles and go "this is boring and gross" and then if you show us something akin to Sanbreque or Ishgard we "wow lets go there" because that's what FF as an escape means to us. This isn't it.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

The least they could have done is give us an adventure somewhere people actually wanted to go to but with how they let the writing bulldoze 90% of the setting in Endwalker all that's left is the thrilling city of lizards who need the scions to go topple their current regime. It's just so bland and uninspired. At this point I would rather they just completely steal 1:1 settings from other FF games like Besaid or Bevelle from FFX instead of what that trailer and keynote proceded to bore me with.

It's not as if there weren't other more relevant places we could have gone to like Corvos which they kept teasing all expansion only to pull this underwhelming surprise. DT is lacking in basically everything from the base plot they described which we know will have to be carried by the same stagnant characters they refuse to get rid of because of fanservice to the generic jungle.jpeg they copypasted into the New World. Thavnair was already soulless, but this looks even worse.

I've lived in tropical countries for a huge chunk of my life and to see them take all the worst aesthetics and aspects of that and make that into an entire expansion we have to sit through for 3 years before the game might actually go somewhere interesting isn't something that sits right with me. If there are people who really want to visit that as an expansion then I can only assume they've never had to deal with stuff like dengue, blackouts, and all the other wonders of the tropics and developing countries I spent most of my life trying to get out of. That weird bit about how the New World was "non-industrial" or something akin to that also struck me as odd pr speech. If the New World in FFXIV had some kind of Spanish or English colonial aspect maybe it would give those of us who aren't crazy about the city built entirely out of sticks something to be midly excited for, but nothing I've seen so far even comes close to lukewarm.

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FFX is likely number 1 for my favorite Final Fantasy in the series next to FF VIII, so tbh I wouldn't mind going to Spira for some reason. (forgive me I still have to go through the pixel remasters)

Dark fantasy settings is bar none my favorite kind of setting for games (I've sunk an insurmountable amount of hours into the Souls games and Bloodborne), and I do wish they'd tap into it more myself. Heavensward and Shadowbringers have been my favorite expansions by far story wise.

I think there would be less criticism of Dawntrail if the game had properly explored all the aspects of the story that it build up over time. For example, I think Garlemald was such a large part of the setting that it really should have had its own expansion. I think it's very strange that it's considered fine for people to demand that the darker elements are removed from the game but raising an eyebrow at the slice of life and 'humour' is somehow a line in the sand never to be crossed.

I have never really cared about the Scions. They're some of the most preachy and hypocritical protagonists that I've encountered in a game to date. Not to mention given that they're all scholars almost all of them come across as very dorky and socially awkward - many games will allow the player the agency to tell a character such as G'raha to back off.

I think the game needs to do more to account for a broader variety of personal tastes, particularly where characters with different opinions, beliefs and personality types are concerned.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I think the game needs to do more to account for a broader variety of personal tastes, particularly where characters with different opinions, beliefs and personality types are concerned.

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Instead of doing just that it seems that they just want to double down on everything that made Endwalker difficult to sit through and push those of us who aren't in favour of the Scions going around preaching from region to region to just go away. It's unbearably dull even moreso when the underlying design philosophy for FFXIV's world nowadays is oh look this irl region is here so lets make it look like that instead of trying to be creative like they used to.

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Originally Posted by Zakuyia

Probably should have stayed on that hiatus to be honest. You don't seem welcome here XD.

https://imgflip.com/i/7zbk6k

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People who tend to break their own promises don't get received well in any communities.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

I've lived in tropical countries for a huge chunk of my life and to see them take all the worst aesthetics and aspects of that and make that into an entire expansion we have to sit through for 3 years before the game might actually go somewhere interesting isn't something that sits right with me. If there are people who really want to visit that as an expansion then I can only assume they've never had to deal with stuff like dengue, blackouts, and all the other wonders of the tropics and developing countries I spent most of my life trying to get out of.

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To be fair, they stereotype all the cultures including their own. They stereotyped the UK as if the house of commons and house of lords made everything perfect, they stereotyped japanese culture with ninjas and samurai, they probably did some stereotyping with Thavnair, and so you can bet that with tropical countries being stereotyped as ideal holiday destinations that they will do that as well and ignore things like blackouts.

If they can stereotype their own country like they did with Kugane then I'm alright with it. If they hadn't been able to stereotype themselves then I would see it as rather unfair.

Still, there's not a lot of interest that I can imagine in a tropical location. Hullbreaker Isle for an expansion doesn't particularly excite me. So hopefully the extended trailers will show something more interesting.

Didn't they also showcase a region akin to the SA andes Mts. With a smallish race rather like natives in SA or am I wrong? Or was it more like India? Omg did India change the name of their country yet?

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I think there would be less criticism of Dawntrail if the game had properly explored all the aspects of the story that it build up over time. For example, I think Garlemald was such a large part of the setting that it really should have had its own expansion. I think it's very strange that it's considered fine for people to demand that the darker elements are removed from the game but raising an eyebrow at the slice of life and 'humour' is somehow a line in the sand never to be crossed.

I have never really cared about the Scions. They're some of the most preachy and hypocritical protagonists that I've encountered in a game to date. Not to mention given that they're all scholars almost all of them come across as very dorky and socially awkward - many games will allow the player the agency to tell a character such as G'raha to back off.

I think the game needs to do more to account for a broader variety of personal tastes, particularly where characters with different opinions, beliefs and personality types are concerned.

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Garlemald was definitely my favorite portion of Endwalker, but it was simultaneously one of the most disappointing. I expected so much more, but as soon as I remembered that it's just a zone, I kind of seen that my desire for a fully fleshed out garlemald expansion would never come to fruition.

They did have a chance with the patch story, but it didn't really do much, honestly. If nothing else I'd like to see something similar to ishgard restoration or Doman Restoration where we can all put in effort to rebuild it.

I'm of similar mind concerning the scions, I don't not care about them...but dear lord I really want some new faces to be around for a change.

What makes an FF game 'feel' like FF? The original FF game was literally just a DnD game by another name, some games feature contemporary settings, medieval settings, sci-fi settings, high fantasy settings, etc, with many of them sharing a few common threads that link them together, such chocobos, moogles, classes, etc.

One of the most consistent things about FF is how much it reinvents the wheel each iteration, from setting to combat to levelling. We've had games where we run around a medieval world looking for magic rocks to driving around the American Midwest in a luxury car that can fly to going to the moon in a mechanical space whale to beat up an alien who is actually the main villain.

A game 'not feeling like an FF' is an empty statement, I'm sure there were people who would have said the exact same thing about Final Fantasy VII when it first came out, now its what most people think of when they think Final Fantasy.

Theyve been teasing us lands and continents beyond Eorzea, Ilsabard and Othard so us finally visiting the New World is both refreshing and appropriate for me.

Im a fan of South American culture so Im personally interested in it. I honestly didnt want for us to have another Shadowbringers 2.0 already. Let us explore the entirety of Etheriys first

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Theyve been teasing us lands and continents beyond Eorzea, Ilsabard and Othard so us finally visiting the New World is both refreshing and appropriate for me.

Im a fan of South American culture so Im personally interested in it. I honestly didnt want for us to have another Shadowbringers 2.0 already. Let us explore the entirety of Etheriys first

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I agree, I think it would be awesome. SA needs to be showcased too.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

They need to make the game 100% the way I want. Screw everyone else.

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FTFY

Also devs make the game they want to make too. They can't just grab everything from the suggestion box. That would be a horrible game.

I feel if they kept dawntrails strictly to the continents we have already visited it will feel the same as what we been getting with the same desert/semi-tropical/snowy or more Asian inspired environments if the expanded more on the island kugane is on or nagxia. The new world i hope will allow them to get a lot more creative with the south/central/north America aesthetics from pre-colonial times. I'm also liking the ff11 and ff10 vibes with the tribe that looks similar to spirans from ff10 and the mamool ja which looks to be drawing somewhat from ff11 lore.

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

Also devs make the game they want to make too. They can't just grab everything from the suggestion box. That would be a horrible game.

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At this point I think he's hoping that SE will notice him and offer him a job. There's no other good reason for his continuing to return with these long drawn-out posts of his own vision of the game year after year.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

It's unbearably dull even moreso when the underlying design philosophy for FFXIV's world nowadays is oh look this irl region is here so lets make it look like that instead of trying to be creative like they used to.

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I'm not even going to start with your "Timbuktu aesthetic" and "developing world needs colonialism to be interesting" takes, but almost all fantasy is based on existing cultures. You're just focused on the "default" setting where the lion's share of fantasy is based on a 1:1 of medieval Europe.

DT's direction isn't from nowhere either. The End of Endwalker had Emet-Selch go on about things we haven't seen and we need to get out there and explore while the entire plot of the patches was kicked off by us trying to be normal adventurers again and looking for treasure on a map. The old plot has finally ended and the developers are finally free of most of the baggage left over from the original premise of 1.0 and can do something new. I'd rather have an expansion that goes back to "adventure" featuring fantasy versions of cultures that generally don't get representations in fantasy than to be chained to the old story yet again and deal with the same old problems or their repercussions and it's apparent with this new direction that the developers feel the same.

The game already appeals to a broad variety of tastes. Y'all are saying you want the game to appeal to a broader group, but you just want it to appeal to your specific individual tastes regardless of what anyone else or the developers themselves want. Every expansion has had dark moments as well as comedic moments scattered throughout. Even your beloved Heavensward has a commercial break where we have to please the cartoons in between segments of our gritty camping trip with the elves who despise each other and the other expansions all do the same thing. I'm not sure what you're looking for unless you just want knights beating serfs while complaining about political factions we don't care about.

If you don't like it, then feel free to wait until the next expansion that you care about and story skip.

Unless he can read/write and speak Japanese, he'll never get a job offer.

Writing an FFXIV fanfiction piece in Japanese might get him an initial interview. Although if it's the Garlemald piece, maybe not.

It's odd to speak about what "feels" like FF when we haven't gotten our hands on DT at all. FF1 feels vastly different to FF7 that feels different to XIV that feels different to XV. All still very much FF games. What I suspect "doesn't feel like FF" means is "not what I want to see". Also it's funny folks here make a bigger deal out of food than the game does. New lands means new locals, new people, new food. It's the same irl so chill tf out lol

Honest question here Aveyond....why do you keep coming back to this game, if you decide you need to rewrite the story of it to fit what you want? Wouldn't it be better to invest your time, and money, in a different game that fits with what you are looking for?

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Originally Posted by Zairava

FFX is likely number 1 for my favorite Final Fantasy in the series next to FF VIII, so tbh I wouldn't mind going to Spira for some reason. (forgive me I still have to go through the pixel remasters)

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-Weird Fanboy scream because Im a (-Blatant-) FFX Fan-
Going to Spria or taking inspiration from FFX would be Interesting. I feel like that could be the "Summoners" expansion and should heavily Reference the Fayth. I think it might also abit religious if they lean to heavily into FFX, but of course they will take some Creative Liberties.

Seeing Besaid, the Calmlands and even Zanarkand (Final Zone?) would just be amazing.

But it is, and hopefully FFXIV is switching entirely over to a Baldurs Gate alike gameplay with some more twists...

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

But it is, and hopefully FFXIV is switching entirely over to a Baldurs Gate alike gameplay

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You want to wait for 7 other people to hopefully not have nodded off so you can once again make your next "Attack" and "Shove" command before waiting a minute for your next spec of gameplay?

Don't get me wrong; I like BG3... but there's no way its gameplay belongs in an MMO.