How is this NOT harrasment/griefing?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ispano

If Yucie DOES do that, i'll stab her/him for you.

---

Oh, he will too. That's a big reason why I don't do these things.

people who defend to the player r50 , please can you search and learn the word "solidarity" in your dictionary?
if we had more solidarity and less selfishness the community would be more nice, and also communication, please try use autotranslate or google translate (it is not good but some is some)

Sorry , my english is not very good, i hope people understand my message.

He is most likely working on a achievement

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cidspain

people who defend to the player r50

---

but but but, you yourself is l50 Gladiator
Don't you want to be protected, o my Gladiator/Paladin in a shining armor?

Unfortunately the way people are, MMOs often take the route of protecting the player from themselves and others from everyone else, so instancing is the way to go. Behest is just poorly designed regardless and to have ridiculous achievements tied to them sounds like copypasta nonsense in that department.

Pretty sure there isn't a QA department over at SE, or at least not one with any sense of the world. If there was, this entire game would never have hit the shelves.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rina_inverse

but but but, you yourself is l50 Gladiator
Don't you want to be protected, o my Gladiator/Paladin in a shining armor?

---

I don't think his level has relevance in the matter.
He can still side with lower level players against high level players. (Unless he is doing the same thing that lvl 50 was, and being a hypocrite, but you have no proof of that, so lets assume he isn't a hypocrite)

People surely dont get sarcasm

Chiming in here based only on the details of the OP.

I think the onus of communication is more on the veteran player going for the achievement than newer players (as the latter may not be aware that an achievement exists until they find the relevant achievement npc).

I would be more inclined to say it was a misunderstanding, but the level 50 leaving those last few mobs around rather than clearing the behest leave some questions on intent.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cidspain

people who defend to the player r50 , please can you search and learn the word "solidarity" in your dictionary?
if we had more solidarity and less selfishness the community would be more nice, and also communication, please try use autotranslate or google translate (it is not good but some is some)

Sorry , my english is not very good, i hope people understand my message.

---

well cid you also have to remember that there are many of us that have every class to cap. the only thing left to do in game is getting achievements. the player did nothing against the rules. i'm not saying they went about it the right way or morally correct, but the question was "is this griefing" and that answer is no.

you've known me and many others that have all capped classes for a long time in game and know achievements is all that we have left until the cap raise. you also know me well enough to know i wouldn't do others that way nor do i condone others doing it, but i can't jump on anyone for doing something that's not against the rules. it's not that i'm defending the r50 taking the mobs, but i am defending the fact that according the rules they did nothing wrong.

While according to the rules they did nothing wrong. I do feel that he could've let OP at least claim the mobs then kill them so OP would've received exp.

Not harrassment or griefing but incredibly bad manners. Not an ideal solution but I'd have just sat out the next behest he did. As you can only do every other behest you could have avoided him this way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yucie

the 50 should be the one to either a) leave the behest alone until these people leave or b) go to another camp altogether. There's absolutely no reason one 50 should have the entire reign of a public event just because he wants his pretty little number to grow; people should be more courteous and step down when they see other people in need of something.

---

And whose place is it to say which person's need is more important?..

I believe it's unfair to say one's need is more important than another's in a game where each person/group has something to gain. They have equal right to be there. The best thing they can do is work together. Or if they can't, try not to disturb each other.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jekyll

While according to the rules they did nothing wrong. I do feel that he could've let OP at least claim the mobs then kill them so OP would've received exp.

---

now this i completely agree with. no rules were broken, but it still doesn't pass the smell test.

they could have even joined the party and done just like pl is done with claim all mobs together at once and then let them kick him. they'd get all drops and all exp, but he could have gotten the faster kills and quicker end towards the achievement. that would have been the correct way for both groups to handle it without having an issue.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by charlemagne

Not harrassment or griefing but incredibly bad manners. Not an ideal solution but I'd have just sat out the next behest he did. As you can only do every other behest you could have avoided him this way.

---

Actually you can do them every half hour. Once you do one, you can't accept the next until 2 minutes after. The Behest starts 3 minutes after.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kensaki

I'll just counter that with the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Thanks for playing though.

---

But that few is bigger than you, and there's nothing you can do about it. Best you can do is not do the same when the tables are turned.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kensaki

I'll just counter that with the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Thanks for playing though.

---

Are you serious right now?

"He is not breaking any rules" - that's right

But what he's doing is totally not right ... It can be done without claiming mobs ... I did that many times, I just wait till they claim the mob, then I attack/kill the mob ... I get the credit for behest achievement and they get their EXP

Wondering, is it hard to make a system that prevent such things !!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Giant

"He is not breaking any rules" - that's right

But what he's doing is totally not right ... It can be done without claiming mobs ... I did that many times, I just wait till they claim the mob, then I attack/kill the mob ... I get the credit for behest achievement and they get their EXP

Wondering, is it hard to make a system that prevent such things !!

---

Nothing is wrong with the system. In fact, it's great that one can hit a mob claimed by others to help them out. On the other hand, everything is wrong with some player's behavior.

wow so he killed all the regular mobs and left the now over-level boss mobs to kill you guys so that you would fail the behest?

thats cold as ice!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nabiri

And whose place is it to say which person's need is more important?..

I believe it's unfair to say one's need is more important than another's in a game where each person/group has something to gain. They have equal right to be there. The best thing they can do is work together. Or if they can't, try not to disturb each other.

---

I have to disagree.

It's one person with incredibly bad manners and a silly intention of working on his 'achievement' - which is nothing more than a pretty number that says "oh, I've done stuff here x amount of times, I'm a badass!"
versus
The person who is doing behest with an honest intention - getting experience points to level up and make actual progress. This person will gain experience, knowledge, and maybe even abilities on his class.

Who has more to gain? The person who has need of the experience from those mobs.
In light of this fact, I'd say the achievement means little to nothing, even less so if the person is a douche.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kensaki

I'll just counter that with the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Thanks for playing though.

---

In this case the few have the power and those with power don't really give a crap unless they are the courteous ones. SE can't/won't do anything because of the achievements set in place so tough luck unless they either get rid of those achievements or make behest an instance like Ifrit. Seriously, people only do it for achievements which is a goal, just like leveling up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yucie

I have to disagree.

It's one person with incredibly bad manners and a silly intention of working on his 'achievement' - which is nothing more than a pretty number that says "oh, I've done stuff here x amount of times, I'm a badass!"
versus
The person who is doing behest with an honest intention - getting experience points to level up and make actual progress. This person will gain experience, knowledge, and maybe even abilities on his class.

Who has more to gain? The person who has need of the experience from those mobs.
In light of this fact, I'd say the achievement means little to nothing, even less so if the person is a douche.

---

And who do you think you are, thinking you can easily pass judgement to other player?
I know, you must be one of them. You must be the Judge lapdog!
Admit it!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yucie

I have to disagree.

It's one person with incredibly bad manners and a silly intention of working on his 'achievement' - which is nothing more than a pretty number that says "oh, I've done stuff here x amount of times, I'm a badass!"
versus
The person who is doing behest with an honest intention - getting experience points to level up and make actual progress. This person will gain experience, knowledge, and maybe even abilities on his class.

---

Ok, so you believe it's fair to judge how people play the game.. That it's your place to
decide what "honest" intentions are, and who deserves more than others, gotcha.

What is progress to you may not be progress to others.
What is progress to others may not be progress to you.
Those are opinions, not facts. Everyone is different.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yucie

Who has more to gain? The person who has need of the experience from those mobs.
In light of this fact, I'd say the achievement means little to nothing, even less so if the person is a douche.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yucie

In light of this fact

---

By "fact" I know you mean opinion.

Who has more to gain? It's up to the individual to decide for themselves what they
have to gain from something and how important it is to them. Not for you to decide for
them.

And I'm not even talking about someone being a jerk, I'm totally against being a jerk
to people.

Too bad we don't have the opinion of the 50 in question.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ArkNova

Too bad we don't have the opinion of the 50 in question.

---

You know, it's actually pretty rude
TC set us against each other, then just leave like that

At least stay here and burn with us

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yucie

I have to disagree.

It's one person with incredibly bad manners and a silly intention of working on his 'achievement' - which is nothing more than a pretty number that says "oh, I've done stuff here x amount of times, I'm a badass!"
versus
The person who is doing behest with an honest intention - getting experience points to level up and make actual progress. This person will gain experience, knowledge, and maybe even abilities on his class.

Who has more to gain? The person who has need of the experience from those mobs.
In light of this fact, I'd say the achievement means little to nothing, even less so if the person is a douche.

---

Yeah because everyone plays the game exactly the same way and for exactly the same reasons, right? By this logic, I think everyone harvesting/mining/fishing solely for profit or achievements should get the hell out of all zones because there are legitimate players trying to level up DoL classes, and you are simply getting in their way and taking their nodes while you try to get your stupid meaningless achievements and monies...how dare you. Play the game my way or GTFO. /sigh

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nabiri

Ok, so you believe it's fair to judge how people play the game.. That it's your place to
decide what "honest" intentions are, and who deserves more than others, gotcha.

What is progress to you may not be progress to others.
What is progress to others may not be progress to you.
Those are opinions, not facts. Everyone is different.





By "fact" I know you mean opinion.

Who has more to gain? It's up to the individual to decide for themselves what they
have to gain from something and how important it is to them. Not for you to decide for
them.

And I'm not even talking about someone being a jerk, I'm totally against being a jerk
to people.

---

Numbers that have no tangible meaning besides a pretty number in your UI don't seem like progress to me.
However, numbers that give you more HP, MP, and abilities - as well as the ability to wear better gear - being experience points here, seem FAR more important. I don't think that's being judgemental - honestly, I think that's common sense, lol.

There's no reason a 50 should be in behest with lower-levels, stealing their mobs and gimping their decent exp gain to almost nothing simply because he wants his pretty number to be.. what? Slightly prettier? Okay then, way to go.
Now, if the 50 was communicating and cooperating with the other players in the behest, and helping them with experience by nuking their mobs after claim, sure, that'd be an entirely different story, but it's not the case here.

The 50 in question is being a gigantic douchebag. Also, are you one of those who would use logic in the following fashion?:
If a gamer spends money on this game, he can play it any way he wants. It's his game, after all. There's where I see you coming from, but hopefully I'm wrong.

If the d-bag 50 isn't willing to cooperate, or even be slightly courteous to players who physically benefit from Behest, then I think he shouldn't be there. That's all there is to it. Don't go along and try defending such an action with matters of opinion versus fact. It's common sense.

You dont even kknow the other side of story, none of us know. It could be OP exxegarting stuff to jjustifies his reason when he probably didnt even bother to send tells to the lv50 guy. People have known to twist stories to favors them, i personally do not believe anyone would kill normal mob and leave the NM alone, i could believe he kills everything for aachievement purpose, but leaving NM alone is probably the story OP made to get us to side him.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yucie

Numbers that have no tangible meaning besides a pretty number in your UI don't seem like progress to me.
However, numbers that give you more HP, MP, and abilities - as well as the ability to wear better gear - being experience points here, seem FAR more important. I don't think that's being judgemental - honestly, I think that's common sense, lol.

There's no reason a 50 should be in behest with lower-levels, stealing their mobs and gimping their decent exp gain to almost nothing simply because he wants his pretty number to be.. what? Slightly prettier? Okay then, way to go.
Now, if the 50 was communicating and cooperating with the other players in the behest, and helping them with experience by nuking their mobs after claim, sure, that'd be an entirely different story, but it's not the case here.

The 50 in question is being a gigantic douchebag. Also, are you one of those who would use logic in the following fashion?:
If a gamer spends money on this game, he can play it any way he wants. It's his game, after all. There's where I see you coming from, but hopefully I'm wrong.

If the d-bag 50 isn't willing to cooperate, or even be slightly courteous to players who physically benefit from Behest, then I think he shouldn't be there. That's all there is to it. Don't go along and try defending such an action with matters of opinion versus fact. It's common sense.

---

Something that has no meaning to you isn't progress to you. That is fine as long as you do recognize that it is your opinion and not the opinion of everyone.

There IS, in fact a good reason for a level 50 to be in behest with lower levels, whether you like that reason or not... But purposely ruining their Exp? No, there's no good reason for that. But as I said, I wasn't even talking about people being jerks. I was referring to you deciding what types of progress are worthier than others, for other people.

No, I wouldn't say that about myself at all. More like, if a gamer spends money on this game he/she can play it in any way he/she wants so long as it is not purposely harmful to others.

Again, I wasn't talking about the level 50 player at all so I'm not sure why you seem to be assuming I would defend someone who might've acted rudely..(He could've gone afk at the end for all we know - or he could have been being a jerk on purpose. I don't know and honestly don't care.) I wouldn't support disruptive behavior.
I was addressing your need to tell others how to play based on what is most important to you ("leveling > achievements").

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nabiri

@Yucie:

---

tldr your opinion is your opinion, dont force it on others

Insta-Solution:

Cap Behest.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arkine

Insta-Solution:

Cap Behest.

---

people with capped class won't able to do achievement then

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rina_inverse

people with capped class won't able to do achievement then

---

Capping an event means your level is reduced to fit that cap if you join that event.

You get to do your achievement and the others get their exp.

Happiness for everybody.


Really though, why are people defending the idea of one person ruining a behest for 2-7 other people?

Because one person has the same right to play the game just like the other 7?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rina_inverse

Because one person has the same right to play the game just like the other 7?

---

I don't quite understand how that means that said one person has the right to ruin the game for the other 7 but alright.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by seuki

In this case the few have the power and those with power don't really give a crap unless they are the courteous ones. SE can't/won't do anything because of the achievements set in place so tough luck unless they either get rid of those achievements or make behest an instance like Ifrit. Seriously, people only do it for achievements which is a goal, just like leveling up.

---

The only problem in the OP's scenario (and that's all it is now - a scenario - we don't know if he's lying or telling the truth) is that the Lv.50 player character didn't just kill off the enemy boss during the Behest which caused the others to lose their bonus EXP. Nothing else, while you can deem as immoral, was in itself objectively wrong.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chardrizard

You dont even kknow the other side of story, none of us know. It could be OP exxegarting stuff to jjustifies his reason when he probably didnt even bother to send tells to the lv50 guy. People have known to twist stories to favors them, i personally do not believe anyone would kill normal mob and leave the NM alone, i could believe he kills everything for aachievement purpose, but leaving NM alone is probably the story OP made to get us to side him.

---

Can't say I believe it, but I'm agreeing with this post.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rina_inverse

people with capped class won't able to do achievement then

---

A cap in an FF MMO does not mean someone higher than Lv. Y can join in, but that Lv. X wherein X>Y will be synced down to Lv. Y to access said content.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arkine

Capping an event means your level is reduced to fit that cap if you join that event.

You get to do your achievement and the others get their exp.

Happiness for everybody.

---

Exactly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rina_inverse

Because one person has the same right to play the game just like the other 7?

---

If the one player is in fact harassing the other seven by doing what I described earlier in this post, then he's not simply playing the game at this point.

The thing is, even if he had joined the party he would have ruined the party anyway. The other 7 wouldn't have gotten any xp. But he does have a right to be there and all that jazz. The ideal thing to do would be to try and communicate so that he would stay out of the party, but let the others claim the mob so they can get xp. Basically PL

OP probably didnt bother communicate and expect the lv50 guy to read his mind. Even worse, it could be OP bad mouthing lv50 guy and lead the lv50 guy to just not give a damn and kill the behest mobs, there are always ttwo sides of stories.

Achievements were always in this game from the start. They just were not tracked inside the game. They are tracked on lodestone. so even if you don't unlocked them in game, they are technically still tracked there and you should get all you have done if you unlock them later.

As far as progress goes from Achievements, the achievement system actually does contain many things that will increase the power of a character. The Luminary tools, the crowns, shields. There are also titles gained from it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arkine

I don't quite understand how that means that said one person has the right to ruin the game for the other 7 but alright.

---

Well, it's SE who added those achievements in the first place. If you are a completionist you'll want to do them regardless of the level.