Kill a scion

No, just no. The Scions are perfect as they are now.

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Originally Posted by Tulvi

No, just no. The Scions are perfect as they are now.

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Except Graha he should die.

Kill Y'shtola.

I don't like G'raha but at least he's fallible.

Kill Estinien, I never liked him. He's useless, clueless, boring and unnecessary. I cringed so hard when he was added as a Scion.

Don't kill G'raha but change his idiotic personality back to Exarch (or similar to Exarch). It's a shame he went full retard after 5.3.

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Originally Posted by Erinellza

It's a shame he went full retard after 5.3.

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I hear you should never do that.

Estinien is a needed role. We don't have much in the manner of physical prowess outside of him. We have Thancred and maybe the WoL.

We have a ton of nerds.

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Originally Posted by Erinellza

Kill Estinien, I never liked him. He's useless, clueless, boring and unnecessary. I cringed so hard when he was added as a Scion.

Don't kill G'raha but change his idiotic personality back to Exarch (or similar to Exarch). It's a shame he went full retard after 5.3.

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When we lost Yda as a Scion they needed a new "Yo my solution to problem is to punch the problem till it ceases to be a problem" guy. He was the perfect fit.

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Originally Posted by Erinellza

Don't kill G'raha but change his idiotic personality back to Exarch (or similar to Exarch).

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If this happened, most of my problems with his character would disappear overnight. Perhaps even enough to... dare I say, like his character again?

I've thought for a bit... and, something came to me: can we truly get rid of the Scions without killing or stranding them?

As far as the WoL goes, the Scions are the most resourceful allies they have... If you want an authority of knowledge, why wouldn't you ask for Y'shtola, Urianger or Krile's help? Same for a trustyworthy tank, or someone with diplomatic influence. Not saying that new characters can't assume such roles, but if you do already have those contacts - close people that you can fully trust - why not?

I'm not putting this as a 'want or want not' for them, but maybe a realistic situation to think about. Even if Dawntrail didn't feature any Scions at first, or just one or two, we would certainly see them coming in as soon as the 'good vibes' plot gets deeper and darker with the evolution of the new arc and the specialized help is needed.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

I've thought for a bit... and, something came to me: can we truly get rid of the Scions without killing or stranding them?

As far as the WoL goes, the Scions are the most resourceful allies they have... If you want an authority of knowledge, why wouldn't you ask for Y'shtola, Urianger or Krile's help? Same for a trustyworthy tank, or someone with diplomatic influence. Not saying that new characters can't assume such roles, but if you do already have those contacts - close people that you can fully trust - why not?

I'm not putting this as a 'want or want not' for them, but maybe a realistic situation to think about. Even if Dawntrail didn't feature any Scions at first, or just one or two, we would certainly see them coming in as soon as the 'good vibes' plot gets deeper and darker with the evolution of the new arc and the specialized help is needed.

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It'd be pretty easy to accomplish given the context of Dawntrail.

Just say the WoL is going on a solo adventure to the new world. Over there, they meet some new people and help them solve some problems or whatnot. Maybe you involve a scion here and there but otherwise have it mostly be the new cast members. Boom problem solved.

Kill the WoL only one who needs to die.

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

Kill the WoL only one who needs to die.

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We did already. In Shadowbringers.

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Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

We did already. In Shadowbringers.

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No gotta kill the sources WoL only way to be rid of the scions.

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

No gotta kill the sources WoL only way to be rid of the scions.

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Most people have probably done that too. The issue is they respawn... >.>

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Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

Most people have probably done that too. The issue is they respawn... >.>

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I think canonical explanation is the WoL never dies...but uses The Echo to see possible futures. Kinda like the thingy in Xenoblade Chronicles.

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Originally Posted by DayHealer

Kill a scion or send him/her far far away for 7.0. It worked with Minfilia and Lyze though...

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I still miss Minfillia and Lyse left too fast in Endwalker.

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Originally Posted by Renalt

I think canonical explanation is the WoL never dies...but uses The Echo to see possible futures. Kinda like the thingy in Xenoblade Chronicles.

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In XC2 Rex saw his future from multiple view points. Hahaha

ystola, she died twice, three times a charm.

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Originally Posted by Hiri-Hiri

I'm not sure they'll ever kill any of the "main" group now, too many people would get upset/annoyed.

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https://y.yarn.co/5f9c5fba-6a10-4141...97724_text.gif

Though I don’t want any of them to die without good reason, I dislike having Y’shtola as our company due to the bad record of her cheating death in each expansion.

I got tired of her.

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

Kill the WoL only one who needs to die.

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FF14: Shadowlands expansion. Go to the afterlife and stop Sylvanas Zenos from destroying the universe.

Tbh. i don't want to see the scions dead dead but at least retired and following their own goals.

Like at the end of endwalker the scions "disbanded" just to get back together immediately like that wasn't even a thing ever. Also slowly all the fake deaths makes me think the writers have turned into cowards. What happened to the HW storywriting? Where we had loss and struggles and heroic sacrifices.

But from there on out, all scions are now just packed to full of plotarmor that i didn't even believed for a second that any of the scions would be even harmed in EW. And not in the expansions to come either. It's just sad, so so sad.

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Originally Posted by Ranaku

What happened to the HW storywriting? Where we had loss and struggles and heroic sacrifices.

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Different writers, literally. Maehiro has his own issues but at least he seems to understand the value of a more focused cast and creating stories with real stakes.

Let's hope Hiroi shakes things up a bit because Ishikawa's writing quirks have gotten quite tiresome.

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Originally Posted by Kazhar

Let's hope Hiroi shakes things up a bit because Ishikawa's writing quirks have gotten quite tiresome.

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You're assuming much if you're reading the localizations from the original Japanese. Or have you been reading Japanese forum posts complaining about the storyline?

I personally don't even want scions in the story in any major way (they can be fine background and/or characters that pop up but apart of the main cast again? please no), I wanted a new cast but looks like we're stuck with scions :]]]

At this point I don't think they're going to kill any off and if one does "die" no one will believe it, until they realise it was for real this time!
I really hope we don't get anymore cheap fake deaths, it's one of the biggest issues with the story.

I'm personally not looking forward to the story and keeping my expectations low, all I really hoped for was a new cast but we're strictly not getting that.

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Originally Posted by Rithy255

At this point I don't think they're going to kill any off and if one does "die" no one will believe it, until they realise it was for real this time!

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Yet if they dont, they will be stuck with poor story writing options. A single death can make everyting uncertain for other scoins, which can help later on in the story. And yes, that means a lore packed character is permanently going to be gone. But this adds a lot of freedom for devs to make new characters to potentialy fill the gap.

The problem now is that the fake deaths would make even a real death feel like its going to be fake. Thats how bad a single EW section was done. There were many things they could have improved there to get the WoL to be alone. The obvious fake sacrifices only made the entire section a piece of cringe. I was happy once the twins were gone so at least i didnt have to bother waiting for something that was predictable well ahead in time (and because they finaly stopped talking). Even though i knew they would all survive (i didnt even care how, as i knew it was bad story writing anyway), it at least progressed the important part of the story that i cared about.

A single death can grant massive benefits towards writers, players and the story in general. The greater the character reputation, the more freedom it grants.

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Originally Posted by Szylver

Be careful what you wish for. Destiny players said they wanted a darker theme game and the devs killed the coolest character in the game.

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Coolest characters in the game and Scions are completely different things.

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Originally Posted by Kazhar

Different writers, literally. Maehiro has his own issues but at least he seems to understand the value of a more focused cast and creating stories with real stakes.

Let's hope Hiroi shakes things up a bit because Ishikawa's writing quirks have gotten quite tiresome.

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Endwalker's issues weren't her fault. She was given more freedom in Shadowbringers, but in Endwalker even Yoshida himself interfered in the writing.

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

Endwalker's issues weren't her fault. She was given more freedom in Shadowbringers, but in Endwalker even Yoshida himself interfered in the writing.

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I believed this at some point, but no.
Most of what I hated about Endwalker was her doing, according to her own answers to interviews and Q&A.
Hermes? 100% her and she even put more Hermes apologism in Eureka Orthos, completely unprompted. I doubt Yoshi-P tasked her to do that. (She also said before EW that Hermes and Meteion were her favorite characters.)
The completely out-of-character Emet-Selch speech at the end of Ultima Thule where he winks to the camera and hypes future Final Fantasy XIV (tm) content? She actually suggested it to Yoshi-P, not the reverse.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

You're assuming much if you're reading the localizations from the original Japanese. Or have you been reading Japanese forum posts complaining about the storyline?

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I have no idea what you're talking about and I suspect this is yet another attempt at silencing opinions.
But no, you don't need to read the text in its original language to get a grasp of a writer's style. DRK, Stormblood Eastern MSQ, Eureka Orthos, Omega, Shb 5.0 and EW 6.0 are unmistakably her work.
Look at the parallels between Sidurgu / Rielle, Thancred / Ryne and Hermes / Meteion. Or the bigger focus on emotional and intimate conflicts over worldbuilding in her quests.

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Originally Posted by UkcsAlias

Yet if they dont, they will be stuck with poor story writing options. A single death can make everyting uncertain for other scoins, which can help later on in the story. And yes, that means a lore packed character is permanently going to be gone. But this adds a lot of freedom for devs to make new characters to potentialy fill the gap.

The problem now is that the fake deaths would make even a real death feel like its going to be fake. Thats how bad a single EW section was done. There were many things they could have improved there to get the WoL to be alone. The obvious fake sacrifices only made the entire section a piece of cringe. I was happy once the twins were gone so at least i didnt have to bother waiting for something that was predictable well ahead in time (and because they finaly stopped talking). Even though i knew they would all survive (i didnt even care how, as i knew it was bad story writing anyway), it at least progressed the important part of the story that i cared about.

A single death can grant massive benefits towards writers, players and the story in general. The greater the character reputation, the more freedom it grants.

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Character deaths are most impactful when not expected. So I would say the writing is successful if you no longer expect it.

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

Character deaths are most impactful when not expected. So I would say the writing is successful if you no longer expect it.

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This is only true if the point of your death scene is shock value.
My favorite death scenes from the game were the ones for Yotsuyu and Emet-Selch, yet neither were unexpected. Just generally well written.
(I know I say this after criticizing Ishikawa but when she's good, she's good.)

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Originally Posted by Kazhar

This is only true if the point of your death scene is shock value.
My favorite death scenes from the game were the ones for Yotsuyu and Emet-Selch, yet neither were unexpected. Just generally well written.
(I know I say this after criticizing Ishikawa but when she's good, she's good.)

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Villains are always expected to die and heros are expected to live. Expecting a villain too die is normal. To me deaths mean more when you suddenly break that story telling trend. Breaking the trend does not nearly as well when its expected.

Im going to enjoy my beach episode with my old friends :) especially G’raha. We can eat tacos together.


Forcing deaths because they have been around a long time is weird. But these forum always want to force things into the game so not surprised.

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Originally Posted by Nyxs

Im going to enjoy my beach episode with my old friends :) especially G’raha. We can eat tacos together.


Forcing deaths because they have been around a long time is weird. But these forum always want to force things into the game so not surprised.

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That taco was bigger then a Lala.

I bet is the Taco guy who sold taco will kill our cat boy due to diarrhea.

Must find taco stand first thing in Dawntrail..

It's the newest magitek horror. The Jalapeno Weapon.

I would love an ending like the one in black ops cold war. You saved the world, But is Then murdered By cia because you knew too much. The assassin Even told me "look, this is not personal". The shock of betrayal is still echoing in my mind. That's a memorable story.

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Originally Posted by MsQi

Can I sacrifice Thancred to bring back Papalymo?

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After seeing ARR, I'm perfectly in favor of dropping Thancred into the nearest active volcano.

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Originally Posted by Hurlstone

I never understand why people seem to be out for blood regarding the Scions. Sure, killing off a character can be good for dramatic reasons, but it can also be lazy and forced. I for one liked that Endwalker ended on a positive note regarding our main cast, its a story about hope after all, and would rather they get retired then knocked off. That way they can come back if needed, there are still arcs and stories they can tell.

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This is exactly where I'm coming from. Killing off a character is often a crutch used by writers to mask lazy storytelling. However, if done right, it can be a great way to add tension and emotion to the story.

I like the Scions. I don't want to see any of them killed. I do, however, want to see them step aside so we can adventure with a new cast of characters, which is what I thought was going to happen after EW. Didn't SE say that was going to happen? I know I didn't just make that up in my head.