How can we reopen the FF14 subreddit?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Saraide

How do you think reddit makes money?

---

So? There are alternatives. Even if no one wanted to hold a full scale migration that information could have been transferred elsewhere for the blackouts. It would have been pretty simple to export a large amount of it and link it in the notification that alerts you to the fact that the subreddit is currently a private community.


Do you know what we call people that restrict or destroy information? We call them suppressors. The current subreddit moderators that persist with this blackout are restricting and suppressing the information on their respective subreddits and have earned themselves a place among history along those who burn books and libraries.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

The current subreddit moderators that persist with this blackout are restricting and suppressing the information on their respective subreddits and have earned themselves a place among history along those who burn books and libraries.

---

Humanity is so effed.

Wait, people are actually falling for this low quality bait?

Troll goes to discord, trolls discord, gets kicked out.

Comes here to complain.

Makes the "mentors are bad" troll.

And you FALL for it?

They don't even need good bait anymore, do they?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Boblawblah

Humanity is so effed.

---

You seem to have your own set of rules that you expect others to follow, yet you don't always adhere to them yourself.

You selectively support certain corporations while considering others to be against your principles despite all of them sharing the same general practices.

While you call out others for making snide and sarcastic comments, you often engage in such behavior yourself, especially when you can't seem to come up with anything valid to say in response.

Are you anything but a hypocrite at this point?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

So? There are alternatives. Even if no one wanted to hold a full scale migration that information could have been transferred elsewhere for the blackouts. It would have been pretty simple to export a large amount of it and link it in the notification that alerts you to the fact that the subreddit is currently a private community.


Do you know what we call people that restrict or destroy information? We call them suppressors. The current subreddit moderators that persist with this blackout are restricting and suppressing the information on their respective subreddits and have earned themselves a place among history along those who burn books and libraries.

---

Yea why didnt you host all the information yourself then. Would have been so easy, right? This centralization of internet platforms has only happened because people like you are too lazy to host everything yourself and arent result of compounding complexities. What alternative platforms exist that a full on migration could have worked for (for which you would have again cried about inconvenience)?

The second paragraph is just deranged lmao. You could not have found a worse comparison. GG

oh no not reddit anything but reddit

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

You seem to have your own set of rules that you expect others to follow, yet you don't always adhere to them yourself.

You selectively support certain corporations while considering others to be against your principles despite all of them sharing the same general practices.

---

If you look through my post history you'll find that I've never suggested supporting SE blindly. I've always said that people should DO something instead of complaining constantly while supporting the corporation. Paying for 5 subs while constantly belittling anyone that says something positive about the game? Hell yea I'll call that out. Anyday. Without apology.

Reddit mods are DOING SOMETHING. They're not just sitting there supporting the CEO while saying "we don't like this..but shrug, guess there's nothing we can do". I applaud someone actually following what they say.

As for snide/sarcastic comments, I'm totally a hypocrite lol. I felt your comment was so nonsensical that I couldn't help myself. I apologize though, I could have said that in a nicer way. That part is on me for sure.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

You seem to have your own set of rules that you expect others to follow, yet you don't always adhere to them yourself.

You selectively support certain corporations while considering others to be against your principles despite all of them sharing the same general practices.

While you call out others for making snide and sarcastic comments, you often engage in such behavior yourself, especially when you can't seem to come up with anything valid to say in response.

Are you anything but a hypocrite at this point?

---

I still like Boblawblah even if we have some disagreement here. I think this is probably a situation where Reddit did something that really crossed a boundary for her, and while other large companies often do things that are not consumer friendly (even SE does a lot of this...thank you $42 whale mount and a housing system that removes your home if you don't sub for 2 months...), it may not feel as immediately off-putting as this might.

I have been agreeing with your general sentiment here though. Competition for reddit would be a good thing so they step up their game. I am afraid if they remove tools mods use the website will suffer and I won't even want to go there at all if it degenerates too much. But I think that should be my choice and not someone else's to just block me from using the website.

The blackout has been nothing but a headache for the common user, anytime I have some information I need to find I can't get to any of it now because of this nonsense. All of this drama because of two people on a call who couldn't even communicate like functional adults to begin with. Now we have community staff groups trying to satisfy some unfulfilled sense of justice.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CaffeinatedKing

The blackout has been nothing but a headache for the common user, anytime I have some information I need to find I can't get to any of it now because of this nonsense. All of this drama because of two people on a call who couldn't even communicate like functional adults to begin with. Now we have community staff groups trying to satisfy some unfulfilled sense of justice.

---

The service is provided to you for free, you are not entitled to it. If they decided from one day to the next to close it down entirely, its their choice, be happy it will come back at all at some point.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

Do you know what we call people that restrict or destroy information? We call them suppressors. The current subreddit moderators that persist with this blackout are restricting and suppressing the information on their respective subreddits and have earned themselves a place among history along those who burn books and libraries.

---

That's only the case if their end goal is restricting the information forever.

Their actual goal is to cause a temporary inconvenience so in the long term the information stays up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AlexiaD

The service is provided to you for free, you are not entitled to it. If they decided from one day to the next to close it down entirely, its their choice, be happy it will come back at all at some point.

---

What service? Who is providing me service, mods? Its not their platform to provide me any service whatsoever. Yes im entitled to it. They are not entitled to close the subreddit hundreds of thousands people come to annd depend on. They absolutely do not have that right and i hope reddit removes them all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yastru

What service? Who is providing me service, mods? Its not their platform to provide me any service whatsoever. Yes im entitled to it. They are not entitled to close the subreddit hundreds of thousands people come to annd depend on. They absolutely do not have that right and i hope reddit removes them all.

---

They're implying that most of reddit's submoderators are volunteers. Some are. Some aren't. At the least most of them get influence and power in exchange for their time but there's been a handful of scandals with moderators of larger subs taking rl cash bribes for different purposes. A lot of reddit's third party tools also straight up sell your information, similar to what reddit itself does(and they acknowledged this during the API pricing changes by admitting that was mostly how they afforded the API in the first place).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Saraide

Yea why didnt you host all the information yourself then. Would have been so easy, right? This centralization of internet platforms has only happened because people like you are too lazy to host everything yourself and arent result of compounding complexities. What alternative platforms exist that a full on migration could have worked for (for which you would have again cried about inconvenience)?

The second paragraph is just deranged lmao. You could not have found a worse comparison. GG

---

As a temporary measure I probably could actually. There's a way of getting around the private communities and seeing what's in them even right now and I could probably export a lot of pinned threads straight to somewhere like github. Could also use google's data storage and put it on sheets but that wouldn't really be clean or accessible via web searches.

There's nothing I could really do in the long term though. "Do it yourself" is never a good argument anyways. Large issues like these require groups of people to come together to work together to solve the solution. The resources are there. People just have to be willing to do so. It's honestly like asking one person to stop a war. They can't do it but it's clear that if the resources and effort that are going into said war were used elsewhere then it could be stopped.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Boblawblah

If you look through my post history you'll find that I've never suggested supporting SE blindly. I've always said that people should DO something instead of complaining constantly while supporting the corporation. Paying for 5 subs while constantly belittling anyone that says something positive about the game? Hell yea I'll call that out. Anyday. Without apology.

Reddit mods are DOING SOMETHING. They're not just sitting there supporting the CEO while saying "we don't like this..but shrug, guess there's nothing we can do". I applaud someone actually following what they say.

As for snide/sarcastic comments, I'm totally a hypocrite lol. I felt your comment was so nonsensical that I couldn't help myself. I apologize though, I could have said that in a nicer way. That part is on me for sure.

---

There's like two or three trolls on these forums that run around with multiple accounts. The majority of people you call out give detailed constructive feedback that you rip into just for the sake of it.

I'm not suggesting that the Reddit mods do nothing. I'm suggesting they do something more effective. You're free to come back to this post in a month when Reddit is dead because the changes went through anyways.

He's a moderator on the internet. On an internet forum. He does it for free. He takes his job VERY seriously. He does it because it is the only amount of power and control he will EVER have in his pathetic life. He deletes posts he doesn't like because whenever he gets upset, he has an asthma attack.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yastru

What service? Who is providing me service, mods? Its not their platform to provide me any service whatsoever. Yes im entitled to it. They are not entitled to close the subreddit hundreds of thousands people come to annd depend on. They absolutely do not have that right and i hope reddit removes them all.

---

Uhmm actually they quite literally are, they dont get paid for it as far as I'm aware and if they do get paid its a pretty small part of them that does, it's literally voluntary work, so no, you are not entitled to anything.

They provide it, what have you provided ? Who are you ? No one, you're just a random user, thought so.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dansetal

Thing is the Reddit CEO has said they will just wait it out so this has no benefit to any of us.

---

"The people who stand to gain from the strike failing said that the strike wasn't going to work, so why are people striking" That's you, that's what you sound like.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dansetal

Please don't tell me you're going to suggest Novice Network because that shit is filled with useless mentors

Regardless, only 1% of people use third party apps, but more than 95% of people are lurkers, meaning they just the subreddit to get answers to question or look at a meme or two and now we do this blackout for the 1% and ruin the experience for the 95%.

---

And where are you getting those statistics?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CaffeinatedKing

The blackout has been nothing but a headache for the common user

---

Yeah thats kinda the idea.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

Isn't the blackout pretty selfish too? They had multiple options they could have worked on that wouldn't inconvenience others. Reddit has a large amount of useful data on it and right now that data is being held hostage.

When are people going to learn that dragging others into their protests by forcefully inconveniencing them is not going to make them want to support them but rather go against them instead?

---

A protest that doesn't inconvenience people will never achieve anything, as there is no incentive FOR it to achieve it. What you think MORALS is gonna make a convenient protest work? If morals were a factor, they wouldn't be needing to protest to begin with, grow up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kaizokuj

A protest that doesn't inconvenience people will never achieve anything, as there is no incentive FOR it to achieve it. What you think MORALS is gonna make a convenient protest work? If morals were a factor, they wouldn't be needing to protest to begin with, grow up.

---

Doing something that inconveniences others will not make them be on your side.

Also, the reddit protest is beyond idiotic. Its a bunch of freeloaders who don't realize all these API tools utilize reddits resources which costs them money. The days of all these free services on the internet are coming to an end because just like twitter, reddit was never a profitable business.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dansetal

(they banned a lot of people on the discord)

---

This is not true

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kaizokuj

A protest that doesn't inconvenience people will never achieve anything, as there is no incentive FOR it to achieve it. What you think MORALS is gonna make a convenient protest work? If morals were a factor, they wouldn't be needing to protest to begin with, grow up.

---

We've already seen this backfire. Protests that blocked highways created negative sentiment for those protesting, not sympathy for their cause. Yes, I understand what they're going for. I don't care. They're taking their beef with Reddit out on users. This harms the common user more than Reddit. You need to inconvenience the people with the power to change something, and they have no way to do that, so they're just throwing a tantrum until they get their way.

You're removing the resource because they won't let you run it your way? Fine, I'll find a different resource. And I'll keep using it even when yours comes back up, because you've just shown me you're not reliable. Touch grass Reddit mods.

Sadly the way the protests are being done is going to go about as well as peasants angry at the king for raising taxes so they destroy their own crops in protest not realizing the king has the funds to just import food from someplace else and watch the others starve themselves.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ransu

Doing something that inconveniences others will not make them be on your side.

---

Yeah that's why nearly all change throughout human history has been accomplished by just asking nicely to the people in power.

Utterly mindless sort of take.

Humans by and large don't care about lofty ideals, they care about what personally benefits their tiny microbial pinhead-sized droplet of day-to-day existence.

If you say, "You should do this, or there will be deleterious long-term consequences", they might at best nod solemnly, if they don't ignore you or throw a tantrum... but deep down inside, they're still wondering, "Okay — but how does it affect me, personally, right now?"

The only way that you accomplish any serious change is with serious pushback; "peaceful protests" are usually just cute photo-ops that people in power absolutely love because it makes everyone feel like they did something without actually requiring anything whatsoever to happen in response.

Then those protests get mythologized and painted as "heroic" by the people who write history, because power structures in human societies would really, reeeeeeeeeeally prefer that everyone view "peaceful resistance" as the ideological ideal, since it means that they don't have to actually do anything, and that anyone upset will throw their tantrum without actually affecting the status quo.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ransu

Also, the reddit protest is beyond idiotic. Its a bunch of freeloaders who don't realize all these API tools utilize reddits resources which costs them money.

---

Completely and totally fails to understand the actual details or nuance of the situation, and basically just eagerly-gargles the twisted PR spew that Steve Huffman is marketing to mentally-vulnerable people who don't bother thinking beyond what a single interview claims as fact... like the recorded Apollo App phone conversation that disproves many of the things that Huffman is claiming publicly.

And "freeloaders"? Really?

Reddit is a corporation whose near-entirety of "product" is volunteers creating and fetching content from somewhere else, and then posting it for free in order to be validated by imaginary approval... while other volunteers act as the understaffed guards in an overcrowded Ecuadorian penitentiary.

Reddit is the freeloader — they have nearly no actual product; it's basically nothing but putting out a plinth, and letting other people exhibit their discoveries and creations.

And it's not even a good plinth; it's a dark-pattern infested plinth that's been steadily degrading in quality for a decade as it attempts to squeeze more and more data and control out of its captured audience.

Now, they're ready to publicly offer up their crappy plinth to investors, and desperately trying to stamp out anything that might blemish how much those investors are willing to offer for it — hence the move to drive users out of superiorly-designed 3rd party apps and off the Reddit website, and funnel them all into Reddit's low-quality proprietary app, where they have absolute control over data, advertising, and monetization (of displaying other people's content).

————————————————————————

Every single time you go, "Oof, I cannot endure the pain of an interruption to my compulsively-conditioned daily app habits", you contribute that much more to the — to drop this month's newest overused, yet accurate, buzzword — "enshittification of the Internet".

And when the Internet ends up as yet another version of the corporate-controlled dystopia trope that every sci-fi future always depicts, the human inability to endure inconveniencing itself for 5 seconds is going to be the true root cause.

Corporations and businesses and leadership can invent all kinds of schemes to squeeze, exploit, and degrade the quality of nearly anything in the name of pleasing investors.

But ultimately, they only succeed at it because so many people are unable to say "No" to their comforts and habits long enough to actually scare anyone, and thus, smug controllers can handily rely on their mountains of psychological data telling them: "Don't worry, the masses will begin to go into withdrawal, and start turning on and attacking the protesters attempting to achieve change, long before they ever successfully take a stand on anything. Do whatever you want."

And if that doesn't work — have no fear, Congress will use arcane laws to force you back to work anyway, and then sell it as "tough but necessary" heroism... because once again, the common man has mercifully escaped the dire threat of inconvenience.

Thinking you * need * the reddit / discord is so cringe.

My Island Sanctuary won't financially recover from this. I'm ruined, RUINED!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PredatoryCatgirl

We've already seen this backfire. Protests that blocked highways created negative sentiment for those protesting, not sympathy for their cause. Yes, I understand what they're going for. I don't care. They're taking their beef with Reddit out on users. This harms the common user more than Reddit. You need to inconvenience the people with the power to change something, and they have no way to do that, so they're just throwing a tantrum until they get their way.

You're removing the resource because they won't let you run it your way? Fine, I'll find a different resource. And I'll keep using it even when yours comes back up, because you've just shown me you're not reliable. Touch grass Reddit mods.

---

They asked the community first. Overwhelmingly was in support. Of course, if you don't use reddit, you probably didn't answer.



and @Ransu The strike isn't against monetization of the API, the APP creators are willing to pay. Reddit priced them out of competition, thats the issue. They made the costs so exorbitant that no one can pay. Someone did the math and Reddit just took their yearly revenue and divided it by number of total Monthly users. It comes to a cost of $0.12 per user, and they are charging $2.50 per user for the API calls.

Oh no! The FFXIV reddit is down! Where are miqo players going to post their commissioned cat girl artwork now?!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

They asked the community first. Overwhelmingly was in support. Of course, if you don't use reddit, you probably didn't answer.

---

Indeed. It is also worth adding that this is an ongoing process; the next vote on whether the blackout will continue is June 19, and if it is decided that the blackout will continue, votes will also continue until either the API pricing is made reasonable or the local denizens yield. This wasn't decided by a handful of mods, but rather is a policy that had popular consensus among the subreddit users - the so-called "common users" in that quote.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

They asked the community first. Overwhelmingly was in support. Of course, if you don't use reddit, you probably didn't answer.



and @Ransu The strike isn't against monetization of the API, the APP creators are willing to pay. Reddit priced them out of competition, thats the issue. They made the costs so exorbitant that no one can pay. Someone did the math and Reddit just took their yearly revenue and divided it by number of total Monthly users. It comes to a cost of $0.12 per user, and they are charging $2.50 per user for the API calls.

---

They are asking the community again tomorrow and apparently will host polls weekly. If you care enough - go vote.

Or you can open up a new subreddit that isn't following the blackout I guess.

Elsewise Reddit is free to change it's policies to deal with the blackout if they want. Probably weighing those options now vs. potential backlash and loss of market value. *shrug*

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

They are asking the community again tomorrow and apparently will host polls weekly. If you care enough - go vote.

Or you can open up a new subreddit that isn't following the blackout I guess.

Elsewise Reddit is free to change it's policies to deal with the blackout if they want. Probably weighing those options now vs. potential backlash and loss of market value. *shrug*

---

Reddit can only function if it has users. If it makes changes that force users off platform, it can no longer function as a business. If your product is people and they lose interest in your platform, it dies.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Reddit can only function if it has users. If it makes changes that force users off platform, it can no longer function as a business. If your product is people and they lose interest in your platform, it dies.

---

Reddit also can only function if there are active communities that actually allow their members to communicate and read threads. A blacked out Reddit is no product at all. Right now it's the blackout trying to force users off hte platform by denying them participation the reddits they joined.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

Reddit also can only function if there are active communities that actually allow their members to communicate and read threads. A blacked out Reddit is no product at all. Right now it's the blackout trying to force users off hte platform by denying them participation the reddits they joined.

---

They can't really "put their money where their mouth is" as you don't really pay reddit unless you subscribe... and who does that? The only option they have to show discontent is to put the subs in private mode so no one can visit. No visits means no ad revenue which means no money for reddit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

They can't really "put their money where their mouth is" as you don't really pay reddit unless you subscribe... and who does that? The only option they have to show discontent is to put the subs in private mode so no one can visit. No visits means no ad revenue which means no money for reddit.

---

And if I was reddit I'd simply remove this option from reddits of a certain size. Volunteering doesn't mean you can interfere with other consumers of your product.

Curious what Reddit will do about it. There already were comments about taking measures on their end - will see what they end up doing.

I don't even use the XIV Subreddit so I'm not really impacted. As others said a lot of times it's Fan Art and things I'm not interested in. I find the topic itself interesting though and I think the moderators overstepped at the point that their beliefs about Reddit infringe on the rights of those users who want to participate as they'd like.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

And if I was reddit I'd simply remove this option from reddits of a certain size. Volunteering doesn't mean you can interfere with other consumers of your product.

Curious what Reddit will do about it. There already were comments about taking measures on their end - will see what they end up doing.

I don't even use the XIV Subreddit so I'm not really impacted. As others said a lot of times it's Fan Art and things I'm not interested in. I find the topic itself interesting though and I think the moderators overstepped at the point that their beliefs about Reddit infringe on the rights of those to actually participate as they'd like.

---

Reddit doesn't open the subs though, Users do. If Reddit starts forcing them open its no longer a user driven platform. Also, it could cause issues with some communities that are private only from the start.


And its not moderators overstepping. People are reacting to anti-consumer policies. There is no "right to use subreddits". Its not about beliefs. Its about Reddit trying to force mobile users into their terrible app. I don't use third party apps for reddit, I use the mobile site because their app is terrible. If they forced me to use the app I'd just leave.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Reddit doesn't open the subs though, Users do. If Reddit starts forcing them open its no longer a user driven platform. Also, it could cause issues with some communities that are private only from the start.


And its not moderators overstepping. People are reacting to anti-consumer policies. There is no "right to use subreddits". Its not about beliefs. Its about Reddit trying to force mobile users into their terrible app. I don't use third party apps for reddit, I use the mobile site because their app is terrible. If they forced me to use the app I'd just leave.

---

And you'd be free to do so. But you'd have no right to force others off the platform just because you are no longer happy with it. The mods here are just exerting a level of power and control over hundreds of thousands of users they shouldn't have to begin with.

Each user can blackout entirely on their own by simply no longer using the site. Again my problem is a small handful of people making decisions for hundreds of thousands of other users. I should be free to protest or not on my own terms, and simply moderating a community shouldn't allow you to completely remote it from a large active userbase.

Their secondary reddit r/ffxivmeta isn't blacked out. At least last I checked.

The strike isn't going to do anything when most of the subs stuck to the 2 day blackout lol only a handful of subs are staying down which reddit will not even feel

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

And you'd be free to do so. But you'd have no right to force others off the platform just because you are no longer happy with it. The mods here are just exerting a level of power and control over hundreds of thousands of users they shouldn't have to begin with.

Each user can blackout entirely on their own by simply no longer using the site. Again my problem is a small handful of people making decisions for hundreds of thousands of other users. I should be free to protest or not on my own terms, and simply moderating a community shouldn't allow you to completely remote it from a large active userbase.

---

Except most subs did user polls before blacking out. Like the XIV one. So its not a "few people". You just seem to have something against reddit mods for some reason.


Why aren't you upset with the company exerting its level of power and control and forcing a small amount of users off their preferred way of accessing the site and removing tools used to make reddit a safer experience for people, especially the underaged.




Reddit also forces a popup on all mobile browser users, having removed the option of disabling it, trying to force you to use their app. I don't need an app. I can't open multiple tabs in their app. Stop asking me to use the stupid app.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Except most subs did user polls before blacking out. Like the XIV one. So its not a "few people". You just seem to have something against reddit mods for some reason.


Why aren't you upset with the company exerting its level of power and control and forcing a small amount of users off their preferred way of accessing the site and removing tools used to make reddit a safer experience for people, especially the underaged.




Reddit also forces a popup on all mobile browser users, having removed the option of disabling it, trying to force you to use their app. I don't need an app. I can't open multiple tabs in their app. Stop asking me to use the stupid app.

---

I don't have any problem with mods in general. In fact I appreciate their time and service under normal circumstances. I was even fine with the 2 day blackout to raise awareness so individual users can make more informed decisions to stay on Reddit or not. 80% of mods made the decision to reopen, in fact, and I appreciate thier continued work.

My appreciation ends when they use their power to remove access to the community to hundreds of thousands of people. Even if a majority voted for the blackout (and I'd love to see how many votes there actually were vs. members...), it's still impacting a rather large number of users who don't agree and just want to use the site.

Most mods are not the originators of these communities. And a lot of them actively sought out these positions for whatever desire/enjoyment they get out of moderating.

I already said I think Reddit should have comparable solutions in place before making these changes. But Reddit owns its platform and they are free to make decisions, for good or ill, and as a consumer I can decide, on my own and not with a mod making a decision for me, if I still want to patron their site.