Good! Let the fires of war ravage the land and consume all!Quote:
Originally Posted by CNitsah
Counterpoint to all the Debbie Downers lately...
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05-09-2023, 02:38 AMKickwars
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05-09-2023, 02:39 AMKaurhzBold of you to assume I don't embrace it - If I didn't then I would already be using the blocklist.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickwars
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05-09-2023, 02:44 AMZephyrMenodoraI don't embrace antagonism, which is why I do use the block feature a lot lately. That said it's mostly about their conduct and not whether we agree or not. Tons of people regularly disagree with me on these forums who aren't blocked - like Theodric.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaurhz
If you (meaning the general reader and not you specifically) find yourself being blocked, it's probably helpful to reflect on how you interact with others. -
05-09-2023, 02:45 AMKickwarsROFL this guy says this after literally bragging about LSAT for no reason and insinuating he's better.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora
Should I brag about GRE next -
05-09-2023, 02:45 AMY2K21Thanks OP for reaffirming that Shadowlands was a good WoW expansion.Quote:
Originally Posted by texas_boy
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05-09-2023, 02:47 AMJeeqbitIt hasn't turned into an echo chamber. It's just been an echo chamber for many years. Even right before Shadowbringers, one of the greatest expansions since Heavensward that people had a blast in, people were still doom and gloom on these forums. And now? Somehow people talk about how Stormblood was the greatest expansion, despite that these forums were full of negativity then!Quote:
Originally Posted by texas_boy
Everyone was negative about Eureka back then, but they don't know what they've got until it's gone, because when they saw the alternative, Island Sanctuary, suddenly they decided Eureka was the best thing. -
05-09-2023, 03:02 AMJojoyaI'm up to date with all the content in the game I'm interested in doing and yet I still have things to do because there is content I enjoy repeating, usually with friends and FC who haven't done the content yet or want to start their mount farming, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by CNitsah
As for the 6.x MSQ being filler, you're spot on. It's supposed to be filler. We were told it was going to be filler back in the 2021 Announcement Showcase. The Hydaelyn/Zokiark main story arc ended in 6.0. The new main story arc begins in 7.0 (with an brief prologue happening in 6.55).
Maybe if people watched the Announcement Showcase again, it would put things back into the proper perspective. Not to say that everyone needs to like the content we're getting for 6.x but to at least acknowledge that it's lining up with what we were told to expect.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJLNV5cYN_U
Saying you've currently run out of things you want to do is fine. Claiming that there is no content and it's a sign the game is dying is false and fearmongering.
If someone is more combat oriented than general activity oriented, I can see why they would feel that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeeqbit
I can understand why they are unhappy that we didn't get a new exploratory zone if they don't enjoy Deep Dungeons.
But the line needs to be drawn when their feedback moves from "there is nothing new I enjoy doing" to "there is no content in the game". -
05-09-2023, 03:17 AMcaffe_macchiato
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05-09-2023, 03:34 AMDeo14Do you mind pin pointing where they said that? I don't want to rewatch 2 hour video. But from fast skimming through, I've managed to find this:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojoya
https://www.youtube.com/live/FJLNV5c...e=share&t=3038
Again, I didn't watch it entirely. But it seems weird they would say this and then clarify that it's actually a mere filler.Quote:
Beginning in patch 6.1, this will mark beginning of entire new adventure, separate from the Zodiark x Hydaelyn saga.
...
From 6.1, we will have even greater story.
Unless you want to twist their words and say that what we got in 6.X patches is "entire new adventure" which is "even greater story". -
05-09-2023, 03:41 AMZephyrMenodoraI don't think they would have called it "filler" since that word has a negative connotation. But they did suggest that our WoL is enjoying some relative downtime (my impression from quest dialogue) and I think they were hoping to explore a general period of relative peace before they move into the 7.0 storyline and away from the plot points that were the focus of ARR to EW.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deo14
Some may view such content as "filler" but I'm enjoying it myself as I headcanon my WoL enjoying themselves after their victory. -
05-09-2023, 03:42 AMtexas_boyMy friend, if I came across as being 'threatened' that was not my intention. What I'm attempting to do is provide a counterpoint to all of the negative stuff going on in the forums. I'm not saying the game doesn't have issues, I'm saying that the game *is* enjoyable (at least for some) and if one were to simply read the forums the takeaway would be the game is horrible, design is horrible, yadda yadda yadda and that is simply not the case.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazhar
The negative feedback not the only feedback of the game. Us folks who actually enjoy it also have opinions. Just voicing mine... -
05-09-2023, 03:49 AMtexas_boyHAHAHAHA - oh lordy don't get me started on Shadowlands. That was the straw that broke the camel's back so to speak. Felt like Nancy Kerrigan 'why, why, why, why'. That was about the time I found FFXIV and never looked back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Y2K21
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05-09-2023, 03:50 AMDeo14That's irrelevant, I'm disputing what Jojoya said, not what Yoshi said.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora
But if you want to go that way, don't you think it's at least a little bit scummy to be so misleading? Sure, PR wants you to hype everything, but saying that filler is "greater story" and "entire new adventure" is really pushing it.
I'm happy that you enjoy 6.X. I personally dislike that it's yet another cameo from 20+ years old FF game. -
05-09-2023, 03:56 AMZephyrMenodoraNot sure how it's irrelevant - your post asked Jojoya to cite an official source. I'm just saying it's doubtful any official source would have called it filler in those terms specifically.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deo14
FF4 is my 2nd favorite FF game after 14, so I'm hyped for it. Absolutely adore everything about FF4.
That said I don't think this is a "greater story" than the entire story arc of the history of the game. But of course marketing's job is to keep up hype as you noted, and I don't view this as "scummy" but just marketing doing their job. If they were to promote the upcoming patchs as "look forward to some filler" they'd be doing a terrible job at promoting their game.
Every ongoing game, television, or movie series tries to promote upcoming releases as the best yet. Advertising that the best is already behind them is just a recipe for disaster.
Anyway I personally view this content as a "bridge" between major story arcs, rather than "filler." -
05-09-2023, 04:23 AMDeo14I was disputing what Jojoya and only him/her said, nothing else, nothing more. Jojoya said "We were told it was going to be filler", so I want to see where exactly SE representatives said that or at least something remotely similar.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora
If he/she has further clarifications or source of that citation, that's up to his/her response. -
05-09-2023, 04:29 AMZephyrMenodoraWell okay. I see your purpose was to respond only to Jojoya and no one else really has anything to say about the topic. *shrug*Quote:
Originally Posted by Deo14
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05-09-2023, 04:35 AMremiff
As long as the opinions are constructive there is no negative opinion, a forum is primarily used to exchange opinions.
Personally I understand that some players complain about the endwalker content, because it is so poor and does not respond equally to everyone's expectations
for example the pve-grind content is totally absent and on an mmorpg you have to respond fairly to various types of players.
Stormblood was an extension which was the premium in terms of quantity of content, shadowbringer was like endwalker but the content was much more balanced, it was diverse enough to satisfy all types of players,
at endwalker the casual content is mechanically trivialized, the content is not fair for everyone and above all you have to wait almost 5 months to have 6.3, and 6.4,
the quantity of content and the quality of the patches have not increased but besides the waiting time has been drastically increased,
that's why people voice their opinions, because they love the game and don't want to see his condition worsen. -
05-09-2023, 04:38 AMcaffe_macchiatoSame here, except replace Shadowlands with Endwalker. Glad to see we’re on the same page!Quote:
Originally Posted by texas_boy
By the way, if you’re new to WoW and just play through the expacs casually as though you’re playing FFXIV, it’s actually a really good game. But I suppose you got burnt out of that after a little bit, didn’t you?
You know some of us have been playing FFXIV for just as long, right? Get it?
https://files.catbox.moe/ywsefz.gif -
05-09-2023, 04:39 AMDeo14You're free to discuss whatever you want, this is public space, after all we even exchanged thoughts on 6.X story and what PR moves cross the line. We clearly had opposite ideas for both topics, so I don't see any point in expanding on either of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora
You're also free to pin point where in the video Jojoya linked was something said about filler. If there is nothing like that, then it's up to Jojoya to clarify what he/she meant or agree that what they said has no real source. -
05-09-2023, 04:45 AMZephyrMenodoraJojoya can speak for herself of course - my reading of this conversation is simply that she interpreted the available information to mean that we were told the content would be "filler" - a word I think she attached to this and probably not the devs. She shared that we were told that the major plot of FFXIV up through 6.0 has ended, and we were told that the next major plot will begin with a prologue in 6.55. To her, that means that 6.1 - 6.55 is "filler" and they have not hidden their time frames on starting the next major story arc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deo14
I don't plan on watching the video because I already agreed with you - I highly doubt they would have called the content "filler" in the video. So, I don't think this exists.
But again, she can speak for herself. -
05-09-2023, 05:31 AMSaraideYou seem to have gotten some hardcore defenders now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickwars
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05-09-2023, 05:34 AMtexas_boyI played WoW from the 1st week of release until 2 summer ago, so for 17ish years? Was active 7 days a week pretty much the entire time. LOVED that game, but once it went from a social guild-centric to all the timed stuff, M+ and became just a bastion for bad behavior from the bulk of the folks you would run with it lost the appeal for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato
Great times back in the day though - doing the 40 mans with small guild alliances are some of the best memories I've had in gaming. The game changed slowly over time and just wasn't doing it for me. I'm more of a casual type player. Play a lot of hours, but running the raids/savages/ultimates and such just aren't my cup of tea. Crafting, now that is something I thoroughly enjoy.
That being said, I understand that FFXIV has changed quite a bit over the last several years. I have no experience with what it was like then, only what I've done since joining the community. If it's a similar situation to what WoW was, where there has been a huge shift in the overall 'feel' of the game I can see where it would be upsetting for those who experienced the golden years of gameplay.
Still think about giving WoW another go but yeah, no. Having too much fun here :) -
05-09-2023, 05:44 AMAwesomeJr44
Perhaps I'm wrong, but this thread reeks of insecurity.
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05-09-2023, 05:47 AMKes13aI played WoW for about that long as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by texas_boy
when I realized it was a job I wasnt being paid for, I disliked the direction and they werent earning my money... I stopped giving it to them. posting about the problems on a forum and fantasizing about the "good old days" because I professed to love the game.. would go nowhere. WoW and Blizzard owed me nothing, I had been well compensated in play time. difference is, I never think about going back, after everything with Blizzard in the last few years... nothing they produce interests me at all. -
05-09-2023, 05:54 AMtexas_boyIt was so hard to leave though. That's a huge portion of your life and sooo many good memories. That's the right way to look at it though. You're so right - most definitely got the enjoyment out of the time spent with no regrets. Guess it's human nature to look back to 'the way it used to be'. Darn this getting old lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Kes13a
I imagine FFXIV will do the same at some point and we'll move on to the next big thing, but darnit, I'm not ready - too much to do still! -
05-09-2023, 06:15 AMKes13aI had watched a video by, I think Josh Strife Hayes and he was talking about games and the sunk cost fallacy, and one by someone else explaining why they were leaving WoW, and I finally realized.. the problem was me. why play something I had really begun to dislike. end of the day, the company, no matter what company, be it Blizzard, SE, Sony Online etc.. dont... care.. what we the players think. Company size doesnt matter, end of the day, its about making money. complaints, praise, doesnt matter if people continue to pay. I still enjoy FFXIV, and more importantly, I feel they still earn my money, so I give it to them. FFXIV is far from perfect, but like you, I certainly still enjoy it. as long as I do, as long as I am not disgusted by the direction, as long as I feel its worth the pennies every day to play it... I will continue to enjoy my time spent in THEIR game.... lol... I am owed nothing by them.Quote:
Originally Posted by texas_boy
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05-09-2023, 06:47 AMHurlstone
I kinda feel all social outlets end up being an echo chamber of sort. Its almost human nature haha. I know some have declared this place as the ‘last bastion for criticism’ but it is no different less bias then other places, just the scales of the Traders tip in a different direction. Negativity is always the loudest voice here I personally feel, though some will disagree in regard to this place. Good thing though is that positivity still exists even in the more negative lands. Constructive debate can happen, even when many a bias or troll walking around hidden in suits.
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05-09-2023, 06:48 AMDeceptusYou can enjoy the game, I largely do, but realize it has some glaring and deep flaws that absolutely aren't being addressed.Quote:
Originally Posted by texas_boy
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05-09-2023, 06:50 AMY2K21I mean I liked Shadowlands - but people can like bad things after all. I am sure there are people who rabidly enjoy ARR or Endwalker.Quote:
Originally Posted by texas_boy
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05-09-2023, 06:51 AMArdeth99% of the threads are. I'm waiting for the delete furries thread with a bowl of popcorn.Quote:
Originally Posted by Absimiliard
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05-09-2023, 06:53 AMCNitsahThat's... exactly what I was trying to say. If you have to rely on older content to keep your player that have done the old content occupied, there is a problem with the new content. I didn't mean there was litterally nothing to do (I don't think I said that anyway), but that compared to the ShB patch, content EW patch kinda feel empty.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojoya
Since it's 2.0, they always gave us a lot of storylines during the patches, giving us several thing to expect in new patches. Now we have less of them, despite most of the content is still there. By making all the trials part of the msq, we lost the trials storylines. By Frankenstein'ing the relics weapon to the already existing Hildibrand storyline, we lost the relic storyline.
HW patches had 6 storylines : MSQ, Raids Alliance, Raids, Trial story, Relics and Hildibrand (I don't know how the Ydillshire reconstruction worked, so I didn't count it).
SB patches had 7 storylines : MSQ, Raids Alliance, Raids, Trial story, Relics, Hildibrand and Doman reconstruction.
ShB patches had 6 storylines : MSQ, Raids Alliance, Raids, Trial story, Relics and Ishgardian restoration/diadem.
EnWalker has 4 : MSQ, Raids Alliances, Raids and Hildibrand. You could add the Tataru quests (probably should add the shcolasticates quest in HW or post roles-quests in ShB then).
Content is still mostly there, yet with each patch it feels more empty. When you look at the the storylines we have no equivalent or replacement for, a lot of them are long running content (Relics - Or at least Eureka/Bozja, people ran that even when not doing the relics -, Doman reconstruction or Ishgardian restoration). Add to that that the new content we got did not have big longevity. Island Sanctuary ended being a management minigame that takes you 10 min a day at best after a few weeks, Deep dungeons is a reskin of older deep dungeons that were never really popular (Sky pillar can be a pain to get into) and Variant dungeon was nice, but you can easily complete it in a week if you take your time. I think that's part of the reason the reception of EW patches is lukewarm at best. There is not much to expect and to be excited about for 6.4 and 6.5.
We have a mmo based on story telling that "cut" long running content and the number of storylines it gives us. I hope it's because the ressources are allowed to redisign of old dungeon to make the msq doable in solo, the graphic update and the 7.0. If that's the case and it's one time thing, I'm fine with it. But if it's a new philosophy that will continue with 7.X patches, I think it might be a problem. Afterall, this IS a MMORPG and having long running content is part of the experience. It's not about getting Eureka/Bozja like content to do, but having something to return to on the long term. -
05-09-2023, 07:53 AMBaconBits
No one here is allowed to brag unless they are officially forklift certified and can squat 450 like yours truly.
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05-09-2023, 09:25 AMMaxCarnage
Both sides of the argument are acting stupid.
One side is saying that anyone who doesn't hate the game is a shill on copium who worships the ground Yoshida walks on, and the other side says anyone who has any grievance with the game no matter the size should either shut up or stop playing.
And then both sides have the gall to talk about the other's echo chambers.
People should be allowed to say they don't like something without being insulted. People should be allowed to say they like it without being insulted.
And please, can we stop making new threads talking about the same exact thing? Cause it's always the same people saying the same ish in all these threads. They're going no where.
If you're going to discuss, it's easier to do so in 1-2 threads, not 8-9.
Also, it's okay to have different opinions! No need to insult each other over it. -
05-09-2023, 12:59 PMRenaltAnything done in enjoyment is time well spent...for better or worse.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora
The people who play and enjoy OR the people who complain compulsively...if they enjoy doing either thing...time well spent for them. -
05-09-2023, 01:06 PMTowaIsBestGirl
Sometimes I wonder if it was a mistake to come here, sheesh. I haven't seen very many posters on either "side" (God I hate that terminology) be particularly polite or cordial to one another. The atmosphere here is actually quite stifling, in fact, and very few of you guys are making it any better so I do find myself perplexed at just where any motive for moral grandstanding and soapboxing stems from. I get that negativity is terrible, and maybe both sides are responsible but nothing is going to change if no one steps up and everybody resorts to pointing fingers and both-sides-isms instead.
Regardless, so long as people can refrain from attacking the argument and not the person I really don't see where this aversion to critique comes from. Criticism is necessary for a healthy game, without such it won't improve and begin to stagnate or even deteriorate.
Absimiliard is right in this case, OP. This thread could have been an extolment of how much you enjoy Final Fantasy XIV and leave it at that, and nearly no negative engagement would have been had. But instead you chose to undermine your own credibility and argument and have the second half make denigrative insinuations about large swathes of posters. True or not, is it truly so surprising to see them defend themselves? This is standardized human behavior, it's correct and normal. You invited your own enemies, OP. You are the one who flung wide the gates here, not them I regret to inform you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Absimiliard
I don't really get this behavior either. If you're blocking them, they won't be able to respond or see your posts so why mention it? It seems more braggadocios than anything else. Besides that, you are being as antagonistic as they are with the "Well, you cared enough to respond" post.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora
This doesn't exactly help your case. Frankly there are better ways to phrase a similar critique without coming off as inflammatory.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickwars
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05-09-2023, 01:09 PMRenaltI agree that both sides are annoying. The neutral/grey area is much better. Not many reside in that section though.Quote:
Originally Posted by TowaIsBestGirl
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05-09-2023, 01:16 PMAbsimiliardRespond, no; see, yes. Blocking someone simply prevents you from seeing what they post. You'll even still see the posts of people you've blocked in the event they're quoted by someone else.Quote:
Originally Posted by TowaIsBestGirl
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05-09-2023, 01:22 PMBoblawblahTrust your gut on this one. The more you read both sides, you'll start to see there is no civil discussion to be had in terms of criticism vs good things (there ARE exceptions obviously). Negative threads will see people defending the game, and positive threads will see people attacking the game. The only way to win is to not play, hence a number of us simply blocking the 'other side' if you will.Quote:
Originally Posted by TowaIsBestGirl
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05-09-2023, 01:32 PMDenji
if there's 1-2 threads whining, then they're just whining.
if there's over a dozen, there's a problem.
square can pay for better PR. you don't need to do their job defending them for free. -
05-09-2023, 01:33 PMRenaltI thought that too for a while but I've blocked a number of people recently and it seems the ones that quote the ones you wanna block are the ones in the same group. It's like cancer. It comes back unless you cut it all out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Absimiliard
Once you do though...the road to recovery is quick.