Punish? Are you ok?Quote:
Originally Posted by R041
And sorry but there's nothing fun about hacking away at a rock no matter where it is. A location change won't do anything to "fix" that. You take this "I'm not having fun therefore nothing is fun" stance like your word is the truth of the matter. Its not. You may deem something as boring while others find it fun. You're not special. Doesn't matter if you've played a million hours. You're a player just like us.
Sure we could grind and wait for a queue but if that's the only perk you can come up with sorry that's not worth the work they'd need to put in to transfer it to the overworld imo. That's time better spent on something else. But even so...I thought the game was boring? Also speaking of crazy concepts, here's one. If only a handful of all this time has been engaging to you maybe, JUST maybe...xiv isn't the game for you. Wild thinking ik ik lol
Why is diadem a duty?
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12-11-2022, 11:13 AMIkaraGreydancer
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12-11-2022, 11:41 AMR041You don't tell ME when to stop playing the critically acclaimed MMORPG Final Fantasy XIV. With an expanded free trial which you can play through the entirety of A Realm Reborn and the award winning Heavensward expansion up to level 60 for free with no restrictions on playtime.Quote:
Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer
I mostly just crash markets, that's my enjoyment these days. :(
And yes, that's what we're talking about, how to make systems like Diadem better - I've given a massive amount of suggestions for all types of content, look through my post history. But the one that WE in this thread have suggested, at a bare minimum is to at least remove the Duty aspect of it, push it to Open World so we can enjoy our dull grindy experiences while waiting for other dull grindy experiences. -
12-11-2022, 02:19 PMJojoyaSounds like it's been a lot more engaging than you're willing to admit if you've been subscribed for about 10 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by R041
Or you're remarkably ignorant, thinking that things will suddenly become different if you keep renewing your subscription over and over.
If you want to be gathering while waiting in queue, there are hundreds of crafting materials and collectable items waiting for you along with other achievements for doing those things. Then when you no longer want to wait in queue but still want to gather, you can go back into Diadem for those items and achievements. -
12-11-2022, 03:03 PMR041Well it's definitely gotten less engaging over the years, that's for sure. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojoya
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12-11-2022, 03:41 PMJeeqbit
Players in Stormblood, waiting for NMs in Eureka: Takes too long, too grindy.
Players in Shadowbringers, not needing to wait for Skirmishes: Too quick, not grindy enough, done in a day content.
Developers can't seem to win here. -
12-12-2022, 01:57 AMRaoabolic
Seeing R041 beat their head against the wall that is the eternal fanboy is really sad. :^(
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12-12-2022, 02:02 AMDeverynEspecially when there are none around to witness it. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Raoabolic
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12-12-2022, 02:12 AMRaoabolic...But you responded to it...Quote:
Originally Posted by Deveryn
:scratchingheademoji: -
12-12-2022, 02:16 AMDeverynhmm. takes one to know one, I guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raoabolic
How does this even relate to Diadem? -
12-12-2022, 02:19 AMRaoabolicHuh? Are you just posting for the sake of posting now? No need to be so upset m8! It's a video game forum, who cares? lmaoQuote:
Originally Posted by Deveryn
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12-12-2022, 10:51 AMJojoyaBut that will happen with any game. There comes a point where we feel a need for something new after playing a specific game for a long time.Quote:
Originally Posted by R041
That doesn't mean that the game itself has gone bad. It just means it's time for us to move on as new players arrive to enjoy what we used to.
It's also part of why someone like YoshiP will encourage players to enjoy other games instead of playing only FFXIV. It's smart from a gamer standpoint - expand your horizons to see what else is out there and see things with fresh eyes (games are almost always more fun the first time you play and you don't know what to expect). It's also smart from a business standpoint - the player is less likely to burn out and keep returning to play as years pass.
That some players stay loyal to a MMO after a decade of continuous play is more of an outlier than it is normal. -
12-12-2022, 07:18 PMReinha
Why is Eureka a duty? Why is Bozja a duty? It makes zero sense when those places are meant for what is essentially fate farming and spawning S ranks. It's the main reason why ARR and HW relics were better.
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12-12-2022, 09:29 PMJeeqbitRemember that if they were on your homeworld only then it wouldn't be shared with other worlds so it would be a lot more dead. Transferring to a duty server means that you can share it with people from other worlds. They could try to improve it by letting you send tells to people outside and queue into other content maybe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinha
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12-12-2022, 11:06 PMIkaraGreydancerIdk last I checked the overworld doesn't have elemental levels for starters. Nor does the overworld have actions. Say we did put Eureka in the OW where is that going? Why do that when that then limits how many players you'll actually see? In a duty you have folks from all over the DC and even then those instances don't fill up. What do you think will happen when we cut off every other server?Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinha
Also please define better. Are we saying this now because you can just unsync and breeze through most steps in ARR n HW? (Post nerf as well) -
12-13-2022, 12:03 AMDeverynThey're duties because they exist for more singular purposes than Overworld zones. They have little to nothing in the way of questing. They offer nothing for the opposing branches of disciples. They have their own sets of actions and independent inventories. They exist to be run for more than a few minutes at a time and not be some stopover on the way to another duty.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinha
They intentionally have limits set lower than overworld to keep lag in check. If you're ever in a zone during peak time for hunt trains, you'll know how troublesome it is to get around and even see the enemy you're fighting. Gatherers have been locked out and fishers in particular can get screwed over missing out on windows that might not pop for days.
Everything makes sense when you stop and look at everything that goes on in each case. -
12-13-2022, 01:24 AMR041I think it's cute you believe the people frustrated about having nothing to do aren't also playing other games, you genuinely believe we're only playing FF and that's why we're mad? Just because I'm subbed doesn't mean I'm not playing literally everything else the whole time. It's exactly WHY I'm frustrated, because every other game I play provides way more active content for their live services. It's been a YEAR with nothing to do, they release weekend long content a couple times a year that some people insist they stretch for that whole year? That's crazy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojoya
I've been conditioned to stay subbed because of the housing system, if I let my sub lapse then I will typically not have the chance at another house. I'm basically just paying rent at this rate, and if I stop I might never find a place again due to how horrible the system has been setup. FF has the worst best housing system available, and people tell us they don't want FOMO systems so they discourage actual progress? Yet we're riddled with the worst.
We have the same exact issues we made fun of WoW for. Bots and shitty Dailies. We just hide our pain behind cat girls personas. lol -
12-13-2022, 01:45 AMJeeqbitSE gives us the option to do it in a weekend or to repeat the content and grind for things like mounts and other rewards. I get that some people don't care to grind for these rewards, but these other games probably make the grind part of the completion of the content rather than something that is optional for a mount.Quote:
Originally Posted by R041
I just got the pvp series mount after farming it for weeks for example but if you didn't care for the rewards, suddenly that's a lot less for you to do. Most content has rewards like this for actually doing it more than once. -
12-13-2022, 11:02 AMJojoyaSo in other words, you're doing it to yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by R041
You don't enjoy the game but you keep paying for it.
You think you need to own a house in a game you don't enjoy playing.
Wouldn't it be better to get rid of the house then start spending the money you pay for this game on those other games that you are playing and enjoying so your experience there is enhanced? With luck, at least one of them also has a housing system so you can have a house where you're having more fun.
Personally, I've had plenty to do for the past year and I still have some things left unfinished that I'd really like to get to. I'm enjoying the game. I don't regret the money I spend on it each month.
If I got to the point where I felt like I was no longer enjoying it, I'd do the same that I did with WoW. Stop subscribing and spend my money elsewhere. I've got a couple of hundred dollars in Battle.net balance so I could play for several months free and I STILL won't play it anymore. I'm not going to waste my time on things I'm not enjoying.
If you want to waste your time and money on something you're not enjoying, that's your choice. One thing I would not suggest doing is hiding behind a cat girl persona. Ewwww. -
12-13-2022, 12:10 PMR041What am I doing to myself? Paying a sub? That's not even an inconvenience. I fortunately have the luxury of being able to sit here and actually talk against the echo, because otherwise the only people that CAN talk on this forum are echo chambered happy drought ERP subbies. I'm just speaking my opinion that I'd like to play after MSQ, but there's nothing to actually do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojoya
Right now I'm just talking to you fine peoples. -
12-13-2022, 02:43 PMDiaDeem
It's your duty to Ishgard
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12-13-2022, 10:45 PMJojoyaWhen I finish MSQ, I have the following to do:Quote:
Originally Posted by R041
gathering
crafting
roulettes
FATEs
Hunts
Raids and trials (synced or unsynced)
PvP (I don't touch it but it's an option)
PotD/HoH
relic grinds (I'll include Eureka/Bozja here)
leveling alt jobs
housing decoration
gardening
Island Sanctuary
farming items for glamour
achievements if there are rewards I want from them
tribal quests
side quests
Treasure maps
Gold Saucer
Probably some other things I can't think of off the top of my head.
The game is filled with content to do after you reach level cap, or really any time at all once you hit the appropriate level threshold for the content. You not being interested in doing that content doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
If you're coming back just for the MSQ, you could save yourself a lot of money by waiting for the x.3 patch (which usually wraps up the latest story arc, 6.3 being an exception), sub for a month or two, do all the MSQ since the last x.3 patch then unsub again until the next x.3 patch.
Or keep paying just for the forum access if you want. The forum here really isn't much of an echo chamber. Most threads have their dissenters as much as they have their supporters and posters will frequently change between the two sides depending on the topic. The main problem would be the people who come in here convinced that everyone hates the state of the game or hates a specific portion of game design, and then resort to the ad hominem attacks (like "white knight") trying to discredit those who are still enjoying whatever it is rather than admit it's possible for others to have different opinions.
If there are parts of the game you are still enjoying, like MSQ, then great. Keep paying to participate in them. Unsub once that content is consumed then wait until sufficient new content is released to make it worth the resub.
But considering the tone of your posts, I'm finding it hard to believe that there is anything you're truly enjoying especially when you make statements like "I've been conditioned to stay subbed because of the housing system," That makes it sound like you really don't want to be here.
People might dislike being told "if you're not having fun here, play a different game" but it's good advice being given for their benefit. It makes no sense to stay in a place where you are not happy, especially when you have to keep spending money to stay. It's far better to find what makes you happy than spend your time and money on something that leaves you unhappy. -
12-14-2022, 01:23 AMRaoabolicI mean, we did destroy the foundation of their faith and did a bit of regicide just to put a disowned kid in charge. I GUESS we can make a few stoves and weathervanes for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by DiaDeem
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12-14-2022, 05:10 AMKaurhz
It is a duty because they said so, simples.
That being said, and going onto the substance of it...
1) Is Diadem OK as it is? Sure if it wants to maintain a rigid formula for what they deem as being an open world.
2) Should it be an instanced duty? No, it shouldn't. Diadem benefits from not only being a prime avenue for levelling gatherers, but it also has quite a substantial; monumental, even... Grind behind it, and one that not only facilitates getting Divine Provider, which provides the necessary material for Hand of Creation but equally progresses towards Pteranodon. Being able to progress these achievements, and levelling in general whilst queuing for other duties would be massively beneficial, and in fact, maybe a technical 'barrier' aside, there is no real downside to this. Only upsides.
I don't think people are fanboys or anything if they disagree, or whatever term this forum 'community' wants to inappropriately use... But I do think that people need to think broader scope. -
12-14-2022, 05:16 AMDeverynI would think materia would be the only place you could get enough gathering in while queueing something. :rolleyes: If you're not in there to see the rare weather, you're not really there to get anything done and you may as well be in one of over 2 dozen overworld zones to gather.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaurhz
We'll see what they have lined up for 6.3 in 10 days. We'll probably get another instance because nodes are still going to be added / updated for the next two updates to crafting materials. There's only so much room to add stuff. -
12-14-2022, 05:30 AMKaurhzWhat does the rare weather have to do with anything? The time taken to travel to rare nodes and dip in and out again, whilst good for Gil, is bad for progress, be it general gathering, or even just progress towards Divine Provider. Gathering in Diadem outside of collectibles (for being multi-faceted) is by far one of the more efficient ways to level, seeing as every item you gather scales according to your level (rwt EXP). In Diadem, even if you're gathering a level 10 item, it will give you the EXP gain of a level 46 item, if you are level 46, and that is all whilst bypassing the need for gear. So when you say, "You may as well be in one of over 2 dozen overworld zones to gather" - I am going to vehemently disagree with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deveryn
and, no, there a plenty of places and duties that can give plenty of time to do other things like Diadem whilst gathering. -
12-14-2022, 05:48 AMR041It's sad to me that you provide this great list, and I feel nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojoya
It might just be because so many core systems have been streamlined to the point that none of these except for Raids/Trials even look mildly compelling in their current state, or are so old and withered that Sync feels horrible in them. -
12-14-2022, 05:48 AMDeceptus2 extra timesQuote:
Originally Posted by Deveryn
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12-14-2022, 06:31 AMDeverynBe as vehement as you want. Nothing is going to change. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Kaurhz
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12-14-2022, 06:40 AMR041You say that in confidence, as if we're not getting things like Duty Support in old content, and reworked dungeons. :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Deveryn
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12-14-2022, 07:32 AMKaurhzI'm vehemently disagreeing with your point on DiademQuote:
Originally Posted by Deveryn
Which is just simply incorrect. It's amazing how my point on that, only lasting 1 sentence managed to elude you so tremendously.Quote:
If you're not in there to see the rare weather, you're not really there to get anything done and you may as well be in one of over 2 dozen overworld zones to gather.
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12-14-2022, 07:45 AMR041I think they started in mid Shadowbringers, so I wouldn't really be concerned with whatever opinion they have on XIV changes over the years. They're basically a troll at this point. lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Kaurhz
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12-14-2022, 07:52 AMJojoyaOr maybe after a decade of play, you've had your fill and are ready for a new adventure on a new world.Quote:
Originally Posted by R041
Game developers streamlining their systems and content is a response to how players are engaging with content. You may like something. I may even like it as well. But if 85% of the player base doesn't like it, they're probably not going to continue developing in that style for the 15% who did. There will always be some outliers when it comes to the response in participation numbers because it helps generate publicity for the game (like Ultimate) or because it's building off a system already in place intended for the general player base (Criterion being built off Variant) and doesn't require a substantial amount of extra effort on the part of the team that builds the world assets, which is by far the biggest time sink in development.
As has been brought up by a YouTube content creator, and repeated here and in many other gaming forums, player demand for efficiency has taken a lot of the fun out of games. They're no longer looking for adventure but rather the most efficient ways to get their rewards.
And so game developers change the way they design their games to match how players actually engage with the content instead of how players say they want to engage with the content because the latter leads to more complaints. Players say they want branching dungeons but the moment they step foot into the instance with a random group, it's take the most efficient path to get the reward and leave. What do the game designers do? Remove the branching paths that would end up ignored because that cuts the time needed to create the dungeon in half.
Players want their jobs to be right at the top of numbers performance instead of filling niche roles that don't have that performance but still provide important utility. Higher numbers = higher efficiency in their heads. So developers have to start homogenizing jobs so numbers are decently balanced across them. There's no room for creative utility because players will just complain about how their job underperforms compared to the rest. Things like rDPS at FFLogs don't really help because the player's performance then becomes dependent on how well the rest of the party is making use of the utility provided.
It's not really a problem if you're working with a static where you're trying to achieve continued success as a consistent group, you're all going to look out for each other. But if you're pugging like the majority of the player base does, it's going to hurt you because of the underlying Every Man for Himself mentality.
One could say it's on game developers to not cater to efficiency and force players to accept other types of systems but that's going to reduce the number of players they get and in the end, it's a business. If X amount of effort produces Y revenue using a method that promotes adventure and creativity at the loss of player efficiency but that same X effort will produce 3Y revenue if they focus on efficiency, what do you think the develop is going to choose (especially if it's a large multi-national corporation that has an obligation to its shareholders to produce profits)? They're going to create the 3Y revenue stream.
Do I wish some content in the game was designed differently? Sure. I'm not obsessed with numbers and efficiency. But I understand why game design has gone the path it has and so I make the best of what is available. If I find I can't enjoy it, then I move on and try other games until I find one where I'm enjoying myself again.
A question for those players who think striving for efficiency is fun: has it genuinely made you happy or do you feel like there's something still missing? -
12-14-2022, 07:58 AMR041I don't know why you people keep saying that - Again, I'm playing other games as well. I'm mostly just actively subbed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojoya
They've designed their game so into efficiency that content is no longer actively engaging and it stifles curiosity and failure. You see all the players around us? It's the lowest pop we've had in 2 years and it's getting even lower until January. We'll see what happens and if it can retain a playerbase after that.
But I'm not concerned with you trying to keep me engaged, people should be concerned about keeping the majority engaged, and I don't believe that's been successful. -
12-14-2022, 08:12 AMJojoyaI keep saying it because you're doggedly hanging on here despite your dissatisfaction. Even if you're just posting in the forums, you're clinging to something that's bringing you down.Quote:
Originally Posted by R041
Again, they're designing the game into efficiency because that's how players engage with the game. Most of us are living in a materialistic society where people are valued more by what they have than what they do. As a result, players are on a quest to get more more more rather than enjoy what they're doing. If they would shed their materialism and focus on their experience over their reward, maybe game developers would have incentive to change how they design content.
Why are you worried about the size of the player base compared to 2 years ago? That was about 4 times what it was when I began playing just before Heavensward's launch. If the player base back then was large enough to make the game worth playing, then it's certainly still worth playing now.
You too seem to have an obsession with numbers that really don't mean much.
SE doesn't need to keep the majority engaged 100% of the time. That's Acti-Blizz thinking. They just need to keep the majority engaged enough that they'll return when the next expansion is released, just as WoW is currently getting a lot of returning players to see what Dragonflight is like. -
12-14-2022, 08:31 AMR041You're right, it's a dumpster fire and I'm just here for the warmth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojoya
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12-14-2022, 08:45 AMIkaraGreydancerI hear the "there's nothing to do" alot from you guys. My question is do you have every item possible to get in this game? I'm talking glam, mounts, armour, weapons, titles, minions, triad cards etc. If the answer is no then objectively you're wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by R041
Also someone starting mid ShB can still have looked at changes over the years and talk about them. That logic is as dumb as when folks say someone has less subscribers on YT so their opinion doesn't matter. -
12-14-2022, 09:03 AMR041No, I don't mean their opinion doesn't actually matter - But when they're arguing and clearly not showing an understanding of the changes that have occurred as we've experienced them over the past 10 years, they don't have the same perspective of HOW we've evolved and where we've been heading. So an opinion of "Yeah but nobody actually liked that content" doesn't really seem honest when they never actually did it when it was live. So it's more assumed to the genre as a whole and not an experience of XIV.Quote:
Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer
Also no, Shadowbringers and Endwalker were very mellow to me, I've already busted my ass getting all classes to cap every expac since ARR, and it wouldn't be the same as me telling you to level all classes, and gather all mounts today as it did even 2 years ago. So that doesn't even equate here. There's nothing to do because that base content is no longer engaging as it's been evolved to a more streamlined version of itself. I no longer feel the need to level classes that all feel the same and have boring rotations, while spamming dungeons where nobody needs to talk or strategize. It's also been nearly impossible to actually queue for the things I enjoy like the Nier series.
Every year more Triple Triad cards come out, but because I don't update my Card List every minor patch since 2.51, then I must not have experienced Triple Triad and I haven't done everything! - No, it's all more of the same with a difference skin and everything is systematically linear now. Like a card comes out and I go "Wow, I finally have content to do! Thank Yoshi-P!" I do love TT though. -
12-14-2022, 09:20 AMIkaraGreydancerThat's a roundabout way to say I'm correct. There IS stuff to do you just don't feel like doing it. There ain't a game out there that isn't repetitive. That's the nature of any game really. It's how you value said repetition that makes the difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by R041
Maybe the game isn't for you with how the devs prefer to run it. What they're doing works and a big selling point for the game often spoke on is how people don't have to deal with FOMO and their time is always respected.
If you want a game that's more grind we have the likes of Black Desert around now. Maybe try Lost Ark or something. There's other avenues -
12-14-2022, 09:24 AMKaurhzThe logic of your opening statement is just as dumb as the statement you're attempting to call out. Give it a rest. Someone not having completed all content does not preclude them from having an opinion on what the game has or does not have, equally this does not make any opinion on the matter invalid.Quote:
Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer
The problem with this statement is that it not only ignores many of the issues that do plague certain areas of content but equally essentially advocates for... Something to do for the sake of something to do, regardless of the substance of actual content. When people refer to 'nothing to do' -- They are not meaning literally "nothing to do", they are making a reference to a good bulk of the content in the game essentially being one-off content with little in terms of actual replay value that makes obtaining or working towards a goal as something not really meaningful, and the game could do with having more meaningful.
Do you know what is cool? That Palace of the Dead, each run feels like a different experience albeit with the same aesthetic, all whilst giving the player a challenge to rise to, each class making you use a different tactic, that often requires fairly creative methods, making each class a unique experience in itself. Do You know what isn't? Farming gatherers boon 20,000 times just for a title, doing the same cycle every. single. time. Want to know what else isn't cool? Spending obscene amounts of time farming 3,000 A-Ranks and 2,000 S-Ranks. Granted, this is relative, but regardless of your own personal feelings, there is a different engagement factor between them -- and it isn't exactly in equal amounts. -
12-14-2022, 09:33 AMR041Sure, didn't say you were wrong. I've already responded to a similar post exactly the same way only last page, you just insist on badgering me about it without understanding the why. Continuing to throw a list at me doesn't mean the content is good, considering most of it is roughly 4-6 years old to begin with. Palace of the Dead is nearly 7 years old, and basically unchanged except for the terrible sync. Why is POTD ever mentioned in lists like these knowing it's so old and withered? You all act like we didn't run that for a year straight when it came out.Quote:
Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer
So again these things being brought up by players that have only joined at the tail end of Shadowbringers seem a bit dishonest typically with their feast of 300 hours of MSQ and side content. I'm glad you all see a plethora of fun things to do, I really do. But it's just like if I went to WoW and told them to stop complaining because they have all of BfA and Torghast to do, oh also did you catch all the pokemans battle pets? Oh you didn't? Then you still have content to do!
They teased Variant and Harvest Moon.. *Cough* Island Sanctuary as if they'd compete with Bozja and Eureka levels of activity. Both dead after 3 days each.
Quote:
Originally Posted by R041