A Storyteller’s Point of View on Final Fantasy XIV

Eggs over Queasy (https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/w...gs_over_Queasy)

Here we are tasked with fetching eggs because Galfrid is short-handed. Once we deliver them, we find out the reason they are needed.

Story-wise, this is a simple, but well-built quest. We have something to do, a reason as to why us, instead of the NPCs who should be doing it, and on delivery, we get more story building.

Surveying the Damage (https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/w...ing_the_Damage)

The person we delivered the eggs to sends us to retrieve items a soldier left behind when trouble occurred and they fled. Again, on delivery, we get more story-building.

This quest only works, on a storytelling level, because we’re already there. This is a ‘you know, since you’re here, can you help me out?’ situation, but if I’d left the instant I concluded the previous quest, which I know I did the first time, and returned later, I’d be left with a ‘why didn’t you send anyone before now?’ sense, especially since there are other guards there.

A Soldier’s Breakfast (https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/w...%27s_Breakfast)

With the items delivered, we are tasked with thinning some of the creatures that are causing problems. We return with the news we carried through the mission, and are congratulated as well as told to take an egg we have collected to another person.

Story-wise, my only problem here is that with how quickly the creatures respawn in the game, there is no way killing 3 of them means her companions will be any safer when they go meditate.

We deliver the egg and are told how brave we are to have taken on those creatures. Another case of 'tell and not show', because there was nothing in fighting the creatures that felt brave or difficult. I basically stood in place and shot them. The only reason I stepped aside when they prepared their special attacks is because I need the practice with that.

Anytime the narrative doesn’t support the action, it pulls me out and can lead to me questioning why I play.

Addendum

As of the time I am posting this, my subscription has expired. The only way this affects me is that I will not be able to play beyond the last MSQ level 59 quest.

So, the story now has until I hit that point to convince me to buy a subscription.

I want to make sure it’s clear. This isn’t a ‘keep playing because things will get good eventually’ situation. Just about everyone who’s talked with me about the game has told me that already. No. When I hit that last quest and I’m informed that, unless I get a subscription, I will not know what the next quest entails. I must be at the very least sufficiently curious about what’s to come, that I’ll want to spend the money.

I still want to know who or what you were labeling as being an author insert.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

May I ask who or what you're labeling as an author insert? The story more often then not assumes you've gone and done side quests.

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Papalymo and Yda are who I consider Author inserts. they show up, do their thing, and leave. they add nothing to the sequence.

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

while to some extent I agree, you have to be aware that the game has been around for 12 years.

they have changed the original arc to make it shorter for new players. this is going to cause issues with your attempt to critique the story, since its not the same as it was. in fact, they removed 13% of the ARR quests, lines of dialogue that used to be part of quests were removed to shorten the quest chains themselves. at this point, especially in ARR, you are being handed a book with entire paragraphs, pages and chapters that are simply removed to make the experience shorter because players complained it was too long.

while your attempt is interesting, I feel its conception is flawed from the start

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I understand that things will change over time in a game like this. the creators have to adapt to a changing user base if nothing else. But I am not entering this game knowing what those removed quests were, and how they contributed, or not, to the story being told.

it is a storyteller's job to make sure any changes that occur due to the edits to the story don't render that story intelligible, they must alter how the story progresses to cover the gaps the edit created. that might mean changing a quest line, or adding a comment here and there within other quests to provide whatever was removed so the story flows again.

I don't know what the original intent was, so I can't speak to what I might have done to maintain that story. all I can speak to, is what I experience as I go through the quest they left in, and how I might make those more 'story structured' if I can think of a way.

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Originally Posted by kindar1

Papalymo and Yda are who I consider Author inserts. they show up, do their thing, and leave. they add nothing to the sequence.

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Oh here I thought you had labeled them as the strangers. They're definitely not that since more than one person helps write the msq. They are there to be a hint that there is a group of people who help in keeping track of the movements of the beast tribes or anything else that might seem out of the ordinary. Since the three city states don't really have a big enough of an active military or guards. Thus relying on the myriad of adventures to do mundane tasks and the like. A lot of the time it's tasks that no one wants to do or might not have the time to do. Everyone and their pet budgie knows an adventure will do whatever gladly even if it's just for the coin.

This is a person that does not know the game's lore and characters. They should at least be given the opportunity to revise their own opinions as they go along.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

This is a person that does not know the game's lore and characters. They should at least be given the opportunity to revise their own opinions as they go along.

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will the MSQ provide me with such lore?

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Originally Posted by kindar1

will the MSQ provide me with such lore?

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They explain a lot of things of the world to you in detail. The ARR story is written in such a way that those unfamiliar with 1.0 can still follow along with the game's setting, lore and rules.

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Originally Posted by kindar1

will the MSQ provide me with such lore?

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It will give you quite a bit of information, but it's gonna be a very long road. ARR, Heavensward, and to degree Stormblood will give you the "lay of the land," so to speak. You'll be learning a lot about the world at large (at least in Eorzea's corner of the globe), interacting with national leaders, encountering a plethora of different races and species, and many other things. The basics of aether and primals will also be introduced. There's a lot more, of course, but I'm omitting it for the sake of not spoiling it for you.

ShB and Endwalker deal more with matters of a much greater scope. They will teach you much about the world's distant past history and inner workings, as well as at least a bit about how the universe itself functions.

Suffice it to say, you've got a lot of information coming your way. The rate at which it is provided does pick up after ARR, which is notably a bit slow even with the revisions they've made.

I should probably warn you however that some important tidbits of lore have been revealed during interviews, in data books, in official short stories, and in one case another game entirely.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

It will give you quite a bit of information, but it's gonna be a very long road. ARR, Heavensward, and to degree Stormblood will give you the "lay of the land," so to speak. You'll be learning a lot about the world at large (at least in Eorzea's corner of the globe), interacting with national leaders, encountering a plethora of different races and species, and many other things. The basics of aether and primals will also be introduced. There's a lot more, of course, but I'm omitting it for the sake of not spoiling it for you.

ShB and Endwalker deal more with matters of a much greater scope. They will teach you much about the world's distant past history and inner workings, as well as at least a bit about how the universe itself functions.

Suffice it to say, you've got a lot of information coming your way. The rate at which it is provided does pick up after ARR, which is notably a bit slow even with the revisions they've made.

I should probably warn you however that some important tidbits of lore have been revealed during interviews, in data books, in official short stories, and in one case another game entirely.

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at least not to the extent of WoW where its practically required to do some outside lore reading to understand its plot. Its mostly just relegated to extra flavor stuff.

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Originally Posted by kindar1

Papalymo and Yda are who I consider Author inserts. they show up, do their thing, and leave. they add nothing to the sequence.

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I myself thought "they show up, provide some foreshadowing, mysterious references (for those with no knowledge of 1.0), find you interesting in a 'you are not a Hero yet' way, and attribute your brief visit to Unreality to being sick due to a surfeit of aether" (as well as help you beat what are, essentially, monsters for which you are currently not prepared at level.

The only thing you have to decide is whether the story in the game, along with the gameplay itself, is enough to keep you interested in playing. If the story line authors were interested in playing by the rules one uses to write books, they would have written a book.

Visual media (which includes games) have to play by a different set of rules. Rules that written media finds frustrating as heck. This thread is the equivalent of comparing the storyline in an animated feature, where the visuals are just as, if not more, important to the story than the dialogue, to Lord of the Flies.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

This is a person that does not know the game's lore and characters. They should at least be given the opportunity to revise their own opinions as they go along.

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I was just disagreeing with them on their labeling of Yda and Papalymo or if he started in Ul'dah or Limsa the other two who show up and help you out with those two starter quests versions of the angry treeants. And that due to them seemingly sticking to only the MSQ that it might be impacting their understanding as to why people are putting a random nobody adventure in charge of things. As even doing some of the under lv 10 side quests would at least to me explain why it's so common for such a thing to happen. Yda and Papalymo also sort of tell you the things I brought up as to who they are. I just wouldn't label them as an author insert. I'd label a different pair as such.

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Originally Posted by kindar1

Addendum

As of the time I am posting this, my subscription has expired. The only way this affects me is that I will not be able to play beyond the last MSQ level 59 quest.

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Actually, it means your journey has ended unless you choose to subscribe. Once an account has been converted from the free trial to a paid account, you must be subscribed to continue playing on that account.

You would need to create a new account under the free trial and start with a new character if you wished to continue without paying. If I remember correctly, SE has temporarily stopped selling gift game time codes while they implement a store update so that would not be an option to reactivate your account if someone wanted to buy you game time as a gift. I think they're tentatively set to resume at the end of this month.

Also, the free trial includes all the level 60 content through patch 3.55 so you wouldn't get stuck at the level 59 MSQ. Your MSQ journey would finish with the patch 3.55 lead in to Stormblood.

Unfortunately OP, this game has a massive problem with "tell and dont show". Practically everything is like that. There are a few occasions where we get to play as an NPC later on which do add some well needed reasoning for why things are happening but generally it's just a "chosen one" shonen plotline, that matures a lot in ShB only for it to go backwards in the last expansion and completely makes the entirety of what came before pointless and redundant, accompanied with a swamp of plotholes and shoddy reasonings, macguffin story devices created on a whim. If you're looking at the games story from a neutral, unbiased perspective, and not that of the average GCBTW viera with years of sunken cost spent, oh boy you're in for a frustrating ride. I'd be very surprised if you made it there to be honest. Most people drop out before even reaching HW.

ARR is particularly bad for sizing up the game as a whole because it was a time when they still hadnt figured out what the game was going to be, what the tone should be like etc. For that reason you see much more "offensive" (by today's standards) stuff in ARR than in the others. Nonetheless I hope you continue, it's nice to see outsider perspectives on such things.

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Originally Posted by Lustre

Nonetheless I hope you continue, it's nice to see outsider perspectives on such things.

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We are all outsiders when playing through the game for the first time. There is always a sense of wonder in the first playthrough, as long as one comes to the game with few expectations. The game currently has players from the ARR period and FFXIV 1.0, as well as each and every expansion afterward. It has always had a growing population of players.

Video games are an in-the-moment media that do not properly scan as written works. Literary criticism is a poor methodology for assessing a video game, especially when here, when the critic is working with localized text rather than the original Japanese.

There are two problems, as I see it, with this so-called 'neutral, unbiased perspective'.

The first is that if one plays the game as it was written, the MSQ is only one of several avenues necessary in exploring the story line. Context appears to be disjointed to the OP because they've ignored half of the early story by ignoring side quests. Half of the early story is made redundant from a leveling perspective because the XP from the MSQ is high enough to ignore them.

The second, as I've stated before, is that Visual media is not Written media. Visual media in the form of a video game is more than reading the MSQ quest texts. It requires an awareness of what is happening visually, as well as mechanically. There is more to becoming a Hero than working through a few quests. A player's attitudes to what is going on are of particular importance as well.

As an example:

On my first trip to Gridania, I shared a coach with a lovely man with the palest green eyes I've ever seen.

As we talked, he asked me "What was it that first attracted you to the life of an adventurer?". I did not know how to respond. The typical answers of "Fame, Fortune, Power" do not ring true for me.

It is desire, I think, to grant aid to those who cannot afford it; to protect those without power to protect themselves; to acknowledge every life in a world where fame so often overshadows all else.

Bremondt seemed to understand the silence. As we said farewells upon our arrival, he gave me a ring, and he said to me "Become the sort of storied personage I can brag about havin' met ..."

Years later, I met him again on another coach while fleeing for my life, a savior with pale green eyes.

I still have the ring, after all of these years. And I do my best each day to be that person he saw I could become.

Dal S'ta, Memorii

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

Half of the early story is made redundant from a leveling perspective because the XP from the MSQ is high enough to ignore them.

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I wanted to clarify something here. The problems of becoming an MMO with 10 years of content, is that there is a need for early players who learn about the later expansions through media exposure to reach the current expansion as quickly as possible.

Some MMOs make this happen by dumping you into the current story, whether you wish it or not. FFXIV has created an environment in which you can go through the main storyline without working through the large number of side quests to level. This is not because those side quests are irrelevant, it is just that they are not necessary to progress through the storyline itself.

One will find that the last two expansions rely less on side quests to provide the 'flavor' than earlier, because the design teams have recognized that fact. For ARR, on the other hand, they had no way of knowing how long (or if) the game would last, so side quests were an important part of the leveling process.

I still encourage new players to go through those side quests with an alternate class/job at level.

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Originally Posted by Lustre

Unfortunately OP, this game has a massive problem with "tell and dont show". Practically everything is like that. There are a few occasions where we get to play as an NPC later on which do add some well needed reasoning for why things are happening but generally it's just a "chosen one" shonen plotline, that matures a lot in ShB only for it to go backwards in the last expansion and completely makes the entirety of what came before pointless and redundant, accompanied with a swamp of plotholes and shoddy reasonings, macguffin story devices created on a whim. If you're looking at the games story from a neutral, unbiased perspective, and not that of the average GCBTW viera with years of sunken cost spent, oh boy you're in for a frustrating ride. I'd be very surprised if you made it there to be honest. Most people drop out before even reaching HW.

ARR is particularly bad for sizing up the game as a whole because it was a time when they still hadnt figured out what the game was going to be, what the tone should be like etc. For that reason you see much more "offensive" (by today's standards) stuff in ARR than in the others. Nonetheless I hope you continue, it's nice to see outsider perspectives on such things.

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Goes to show that videogames and books are different entities. Level 10 abilities are not cool looking. NPCs that proclaim something is urgent are always lying in a meta gaming kind of way. Quest markers are a 'modern' scourge.. I mean QoL. Programming an actual item that's being exchanged takes away too much from other stuff I'd wager. Granted, some games make it easier in terms of suspension of disbelief.

With that being said, I don't think criticising a videogame for not being a book is an apt way. The rest I find interesting, honestly. It's not like it's not valid criticism. I could just do with less of the high-and-mighty attitude. Looking forward to the rest.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Actually, it means your journey has ended unless you choose to subscribe. Once an account has been converted from the free trial to a paid account, you must be subscribed to continue playing on that account.

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Ahh, okay, then things weren't explained to me clearly when the game was gifted to me. that means I'll have 5 days, give or take, to make it back to where I played left yesterday. this is going to hurt more for Kidarian, since I was on my way to reaching level 40, but Dantie's only just left Gridania, so one or two intensive plays should bring whoever the new character is to that point, especially since I won't have to stop every few minutes to write down my impressions.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Also, the free trial includes all the level 60 content through patch 3.55 so you wouldn't get stuck at the level 59 MSQ. Your MSQ journey would finish with the patch 3.55 lead in to Stormblood.

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then FF14 will have longer to convince me to buy a subscription

(https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/w...rithold_Broken)

And we return to Galfrid in time to stop a crisis, or so we are told. A large shadow is scaring people inside a dungeon.

“Listen well, for we haven’t much time.” Galfrid
<groans> Me

At least, there’s a reason why us. Everyone else is off fighting an incursion.

Just because of how time doesn’t matter, I’m tempted to take hours before continuing the quest, but it just won’t matter.

Once we arrive, we are informed that 5 people are still stuck inside and we are needed to ‘see them out of harm’s way’. An interesting detail is that they say nothing of me saving the leader of the group. We rescue them, fight a golem, and our two author inserts show up. And we get a vision where we get a bit more back story through bad dialog.

When we’re back we find out the ritual to calm the wood’s protectors failed due to whoever interfered, but it doesn’t matter, the author inserts will send word and another group will come to do the ceremony. I won’t comment on the guard outside who knows far too much about what took place inside to be innocent.

Again, our unwarranted heroism is proclaimed, and then we are sent back to the town.

On returning to Mother Miounne our heroism is again proclaimed, and immediately sworn not to speak of it. As part of our reward (or you know, to bribe into silence) we can now get a room in the inn, and take on jobs from the Guildleve. There is talk of a festival I should attend, then we are done.

So, where to start? Unless they are incompetent, the guards should have been able to save everyone but the leader, and that is only because the golem would have been woken and they would have had to flee. Then, the reason my help becomes needed is to help take the golem down so a new ceremony could be performed.

that small of a change would have made the guard look competent while still creating a situation where I’m needed.

As with too many of the quests to date, my only purpose is to kill something so the story can happen around me. I don’t have an actual impact on the story.

I think that is the biggest flaw in Final Fantasy XIV. I as a player and main character, have no agency, or even the illusion of agency in how the game will progress.

Interesting thread. Will keep an eye on it.

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Originally Posted by kindar1

I think that is the biggest flaw in Final Fantasy XIV. I as a player and main character, have no agency, or even the illusion of agency in how the game will progress.

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I do have to ask, have you played any other mmo? I mean no offense, but mmo's of all stripes are not going to allow you the license to "pick your own destiny". even your stories will not allow the reader to have any agency as to the final outcome. no matter how much you scream at the main character in your stories, they will still walk into that ambush, or situation, despite you knowing it could have been done better or another way or avoided all together.

yes, the guards could have likely have dealt with the issue, maybe even defeated the golem instead of running away. there were certainly enough people training to have assisted to bring it down. the npc's around you could ask someone more qualified to do all their tasks, but then... what would your purpose be? what would the purpose of your character be if everyone else is competent and able to do their own things?

the closest experience with that would likely be a single player game with a story that you can be good or evil and affect the eventual outcome in some fashion. in an mmo, they are essentially guiding you towards their final vision, just like in one of your stories you have published. just like when you start reading the first page, from your first baby steps in an mmo, your final outcome is already known. the writers know, and its not usually one of several options because they have a goal. you truly have zero agency. if you really wanted you could skip the whole game and watch the entirety of your eventual ending in video or written format online. it is not going to change.

though since you are a published writer, and even though the books dont fall into genres I generally read, I may have to read some of them to see if you manage to avoid the very situations you are critiquing. do they have open endings where the main character ending can be changed by the reader. are there situations you create where if I put the story down for several hours.. the story continues on without me.

according to your critiques you should manage to avoid all these pitfalls and the stories should be an exciting read, since very rarely have I been so immersed in a book I feel I have any license to change an outcome, and am not just along for the ride so to speak. but we will see. but keep up your journey and the critique. the viewpoint is interesting all the same

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

I do have to ask, have you played any other mmo? I mean no offense, but mmo's of all stripes are not going to allow you the license to "pick your own destiny". even your stories will not allow the reader to have any agency as to the final outcome. no matter how much you scream at the main character in your stories, they will still walk into that ambush, or situation, despite you knowing it could have been done better or another way or avoided all together.

yes, the guards could have likely have dealt with the issue, maybe even defeated the golem instead of running away. there were certainly enough people training to have assisted to bring it down. the npc's around you could ask someone more qualified to do all their tasks, but then... what would your purpose be? what would the purpose of your character be if everyone else is competent and able to do their own things?

the closest experience with that would likely be a single player game with a story that you can be good or evil and affect the eventual outcome in some fashion. in an mmo, they are essentially guiding you towards their final vision, just like in one of your stories you have published. just like when you start reading the first page, from your first baby steps in an mmo, your final outcome is already known. the writers know, and its not usually one of several options because they have a goal. you truly have zero agency. if you really wanted you could skip the whole game and watch the entirety of your eventual ending in video or written format online. it is not going to change.

though since you are a published writer, and even though the books dont fall into genres I generally read, I may have to read some of them to see if you manage to avoid the very situations you are critiquing. do they have open endings where the main character ending can be changed by the reader. are there situations you create where if I put the story down for several hours.. the story continues on without me.

according to your critiques you should manage to avoid all these pitfalls and the stories should be an exciting read, since very rarely have I been so immersed in a book I feel I have any license to change an outcome, and am not just along for the ride so to speak. but we will see. but keep up your journey and the critique. the viewpoint is interesting all the same

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Yeah while this is not trying to give excuses to criticizing the story, its probably better to take the story from a different approach. As much as this game advertises itself for its mostly single player experience, from my years of playing numerous jrpgs I dont see FFXIV to be up to par or ever live up to its more single player brothers and sisters in the series, but dear lord does it try and I commend them for it as an MMO.

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Originally Posted by kindar1

As with too many of the quests to date, my only purpose is to kill something so the story can happen around me. I don’t have an actual impact on the story.

I think that is the biggest flaw in Final Fantasy XIV. I as a player and main character, have no agency, or even the illusion of agency in how the game will progress.

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To this point in the game, you are a useful, but hardly essential, adventurer. Again, you are not the Warrior of Light. You are "that Ra'hashir guy who hangs out at the Adventurer's Guild looking for work". Every MMORPG out there starts that way in one form or another.

Also ... how many MMORPGs have you actually played? None of them provide you with any agency (or illusion thereof) when starting out. In most of them, you are not even the Main Character of the game, although you tend to hang out with the Main Character(s) a lot.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

To this point in the game, you are a useful, but hardly essential, adventurer. Again, you are not the Warrior of Light. You are "that Ra'hashir guy who hangs out at the Adventurer's Guild looking for work". Every MMORPG out there starts that way in one form or another.

Also ... how many MMORPGs have you actually played? None of them provide you with any agency (or illusion thereof) when starting out. In most of them, you are not even the Main Character of the game, although you tend to hang out with the Main Character(s) a lot.

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This is a small streamer/self-published author. They're only playing the game because a viewer asked them to, so I'm guessing this is just an attempt to possibly advertise their channel/books, and get a few bucks out of it. I also believe they stated that they don't play mmos really at all, so they're going to be judging this as if it's a single player game like the witcher.

Predictably, it will get negative, they'll get attention for it, and then they'll disappear.

On to Bentbranch (https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/w..._to_Bentbranch)

Mother Miounne sends us to Bentbranch to continue our adventuring, where we are to meet with Keitha.

And that’s it. We arrive, get told how much they heard of us and we get the Quest reward.

This feels more like a waypoint that’s part of a greater quest than a quest itself.

No storytelling to speak of. On to the next quest.

You Shall Not Trespass (https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/w...l_Not_Trespass)

A ratman thief has broken a chocobo egg, and it’s a disaster. We are to go see Roseline for how to deal with it.

Because there were 4 thieving ratmen, we are to kill 4 of them as an example… all for the crime of trying to steal 1 egg, dropping and breaking it.

This is where, if I had the option, I’d walk away. I’m not some assassin for people who value an egg over another species’ right to survive.

We do the job, and get rewarded. At least she acknowledges the task was grim.

Storytelling-wise, it’s straightforward and teaches us that to be an adventurer is to be ready to murder whoever we are paid to with little needed provocation. The Gridanians are all about nature and balance, but this mission makes me think they mean “so long as they do what we tell them”.

Oct 11th, 2022, addendum

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Originally Posted by Cygnia

Question - the qiqim's egg theft, committed 'to survive' - was it a fertilized chocobo egg? My impression at the time is the fellas stole it for greeds sake as well, rather than as a desperate act of hunger that could only be satisfied by crunching on baby eggs. Doesn't make the retribution any less brutal, but does put things into perspective.

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Alright. you raise a good point. I tracked down the dialogue, and while there is nothing in it going out of its way to make the ratman's act malicious, they use "looting" to describe what they did that led to the egg being broken. to me, looting invokes an act of desperation, someone driven to do something bad to survive. I think that's why the retribution felt disproportionate.

but, Looting can definitely be an act of vandalism, and I think this is what the authors were going for here. as you said, the ratman was driven by greed, and didn't care for what got damaged in the process. So I'm more okay with what we are sent to do.

Don't Look Down (https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/w...%27t_Look_Down)

And since we’re already there, we get drafted into being janitors and cleaning some mushrooms off the root that serves as a stairwell too. And why are we tasked with this job? Because the guy at the top of the root has a problem with height.

“Not my ideal posting, but we all do what we must.” Theodore
“Except you should be clearing the mushrooms, not adventurers.” Me

The storytelling is simple, and other than making me question the dedication of certain soldiers, it works

In the Grim Darkness of the Forest (https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/w..._of_the_Forest)

Theodore needs us to take a message to Rosaline at the bottom of the root because he can’t yell at her to come up. (I mean, really. He’s afraid of heights or of her?) we tell her and “if I want to sate my curiosity, I can check it out”

Okay. This is not good storytelling. As a player, I should be able to make my own decisions, even if it means the game needs to create a second path to get me to where it needs me to go.

So we investigate a campsite that is perfectly in sight from the root where they stand not doing anything and return with a bag. And she decides it belongs to the person causing trouble for the chocobo, so no longer shall she be lax in her duties.

What the story is telling me here is that these wood wailer guards only care about their duties when it affects chocobos.

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

I do have to ask, have you played any other mmo? I mean no offense, but mmo's of all stripes are not going to allow you the license to "pick your own destiny". even your stories will not allow the reader to have any agency as to the final outcome. no matter how much you scream at the main character in your stories, they will still walk into that ambush, or situation, despite you knowing it could have been done better or another way or avoided all together.

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The last MMO I played was DCUO, a decade ago, possibly longer. I reached the ending, and abandoned the game when I replayed it as a villain to see what writers working with storytellers of DC's caliber would do to make the villain angle interesting, and it turned out to be the exact same quests, only instead of going to rescues or retrieve something, you are kidnapping and stealing. I never looked at that game again even though I have a lifetime account with it.

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

though since you are a published writer, and even though the books dont fall into genres I generally read, I may have to read some of them to see if you manage to avoid the very situations you are critiquing. do they have open endings where the main character ending can be changed by the reader. are there situations you create where if I put the story down for several hours.. the story continues on without me.

according to your critiques you should manage to avoid all these pitfalls and the stories should be an exciting read, since very rarely have I been so immersed in a book I feel I have any license to change an outcome, and am not just along for the ride so to speak. but we will see. but keep up your journey and the critique. the viewpoint is interesting all the same

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as an author of a novel, my job is to convince you that when a character makes a decision, they are the one who makes it, not me dictating that they do it. of course, you know I'm who's calling the shots. but if I do my job well, you'll be willing to let slide that I'm actually the one in charge. if I do my job extremely well, you'll forget I exist. (I'm nowhere near that good)

I'm not asking that the people behind FF14 give me ultimate freedom. I'm not even asking to the illusion of freedom. I'd be more than happy with a story that is crafted well enough I'm willing to let slide that they're the ones in charge.

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Originally Posted by kindar1

as an author of a novel, my job is to convince you that when a character makes a decision, they are the one who makes it, not me dictating that they do it. of course, you know I'm who's calling the shots. but if I do my job well, you'll be willing to let slide that I'm actually the one in charge. if I do my job extremely well, you'll forget I exist. (I'm nowhere near that good)

I'm not asking that the people behind FF14 give me ultimate freedom. I'm not even asking to the illusion of freedom. I'd be more than happy with a story that is crafted well enough I'm willing to let slide that they're the ones in charge.

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...again, this is a different Medium of Story-telling.
I get what you mean in a sense, but thats just not how story telling works on an MMO Game Vs Reading a Book.
Maybe Im different or Im weird, but I never think of the author when I play a game, or I read a Book, Im focused on the world and its characters. A story is written to be told as its written from Beginning, Middle, and End. And for me as a reader, I consider the world and its cast to be in charge. Not the author....even though He/She wrote it to play out the way that it does.

I feel like if I ever think of the author...then Im not immersed in the story or the world.

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

This is a small streamer/self-published author. They're only playing the game because a viewer asked them to, so I'm guessing this is just an attempt to possibly advertise their channel/books, and get a few bucks out of it. I also believe they stated that they don't play mmos really at all, so they're going to be judging this as if it's a single player game like the witcher.

Predictably, it will get negative, they'll get attention for it, and then they'll disappear.

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I checked out the channel, and to date it was about six hours of him doing botany and carpentry, and not saying a word. Admittedly, I was skipping, because who wants to watch six hours of silent gathering and crafting, but I'm not sure if he did any MSQ at all in the posted videos. If he did, it wasn't much.

I think the OP is coming into this with a sour attitude where he's already decided he doesn't like the game, and just wants to reinforce that with an onslaught of negativity. At this point I have no idea what his actual motivations are for continuing to play a game he clearly hates. (Except for maybe botany and carpentry. :D)

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Originally Posted by BelgarathMTH

I checked out the channel, and to date it was about six hours of him doing botany and carpentry, and not saying a word. Admittedly, I was skipping, because who wants to watch six hours of silent gathering and crafting, but I'm not sure if he did any MSQ at all in the posted videos. If he did, it wasn't much.

I think the OP is coming into this with a sour attitude where he's already decided he doesn't like the game, and just wants to reinforce that with an onslaught of negativity. At this point I have no idea what his actual motivations are for continuing to play a game he clearly hates. (Except for maybe botany and carpentry. :D)

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Come on now give him a chance, I'm curious to see how this plays out

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Originally Posted by kindar1

Okay. This is not good storytelling. As a player, I should be able to make my own decisions, even if it means the game needs to create a second path to get me to where it needs me to go.

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Final words: MMORPGs are not "Choose Your Own Adventure" books, no matter how much you might think they should be. You are abusing the process of critical analysis. I consider your "analysis" as nothing more than a self-serving promotional gimmick.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

...again, this is a different Medium of Story-telling.
I get what you mean in a sense, but thats just not how story telling works on an MMO Game Vs Reading a Book.
Maybe Im different or Im weird, but I never think of the author when I play a game, or I read a Book, Im focused on the world and its characters. A story is written to be told as its written from Beginning, Middle, and End. And for me as a reader, I consider the world and its cast to be in charge. Not the author....even though He/She wrote it to play out the way that it does.

I feel like if I ever think of the author...then Im not immersed in the story or the world.

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You are weird though. Course so am I anyway to the OP stealing a Chocobo egg would be like stealing a baby panda from a zoo that has them on loan from China. Gridania is being given a privilege to be the only other place to raise chocobos. Would it have been nice to have been able to figure out which exact four Quirins? Yes, but it also teaches you what kind of world you're in.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

You are weird though.

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https://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-conte...cked-Fresh.gif

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

https://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-conte...cked-Fresh.gif

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Search your feelings you know it to be true.

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Originally Posted by BelgarathMTH

I checked out the channel, and to date it was about six hours of him doing botany and carpentry, and not saying a word. Admittedly, I was skipping, because who wants to watch six hours of silent gathering and crafting, but I'm not sure if he did any MSQ at all in the posted videos. If he did, it wasn't much.

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I don't say anything while crafting because 1) it's pure game mechanic and I'm not qualified to talk about that, and 2) you are correct, I do enjoy doing crafting a long with the gathering needed for it.

Interested to see how this thread continues, so please do so.
The game is enjoyable, imo, but it has problems abound. And not just gameplay wise, but story wise, too. I'm sure you'll have a field day with all of the surprises they have in store for you.

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Originally Posted by kindar1

A couple of weeks ago, a friend and viewer on my gaming stream ask if I’d be okay with him gifting me Final Fantasy XIV. (I have a thing on my stream where if I’m gifted a game, I will play it for 12 hours in the gifter’s presence. It’s so I will give the game a fair chance and so they can watch me react to my first time playing it. It’s when I tend to be at my most entertaining.)

I’ve never played a Final Fantasy game, but I had heard of XIV

“That’s the MMO, right?” I asked.

There are 2 reasons I don’t play MMOs. 1) I am a firm believer in paying for a game once. 2) I despise being forced to play with other people to do the interesting stuff a MMO offers. I am not a social person in real-life, and I am not one in virtual-life either.

He explained FFXIV lets me play for free up to level 60, although I would lose access to most of the social aspect of the game unless I paid for the subscription. So there are 2 things in the MMO’s favor right there. And he added FFXIV allowed dungeons to be run with NPCs instead of players.

So… yeah. With those 3 things going for it, I was willing to give it a try.

Oh boy, was I entertaining during those 12 hours. And man, did I complain. To hear me talk, you’d think I couldn’t wait for those 12 hours to be done.

Thing is, I kept playing past those. Over 2 weeks, I played something like 36 hours. And a few days ago, I found myself thinking back on that start and the only thing I remembered clearly was being overwhelmed.

And I wondered. Is that why I disliked the start so much? Was there so much of the mechanic of the game I needed to understand that I didn’t notice the good parts? Shouldn’t I give the start of the game a new look?

So, here I am. About to embark on a new play-through to the dismay of the friend who gifted me the game. And I decided to document my thoughts on what I experience.

My Credentials.

Here I am, calling this the Storyteller’s thing, and I haven’t even shown if I’m qualified.

Over the last 10 years, I have published 15 novel. I have 3 more scheduled to be published over the next 6 months. I’m a full-time novelist and I stream my daily writing sessions on Twitch.

I by no means consider myself an ‘expert’, but I am experienced.

A Caveat.

As a Canadian, I am approaching the storytelling from a western way of telling stories. I understand that may be highly different from how the storyteller(s) behind FFXIV approached it. This is not meant as an attack on their skills, but simply my reactions and opinions on what I experience.

So, here we go.

I am playing an Archer and I will go through the MSQ from Gridania. Unlike my first start, where I scattered myself all over the place, the MSQ will be the driving force behind everything I do. One of the aspect I want to study is how/if the MSQ guides me to join crafts or even the archer’s guild, since I have no memory of HOW I ended up starting on the Archer’s progression quest.

see you soon

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So... are you certified? are you a professional writer? We never figured it out.

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Originally Posted by Lunalepsy

So... are you certified? are you a professional writer? We never figured it out.

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He is a self published author. If you get paid for something it does make you a pro, but (and I say this as an actual pro writer), the writing in hiss books is abysmal and it is evident it is self published using either no editor or a cheap one.

He is dressing himself up to be a bigger deal than he is here. He writes gay furry porn.

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Originally Posted by PirateRyanG

He is a self published author. If you get paid for something it does make you a pro, but (and I say this as an actual pro writer), the writing in hiss books is abysmal and it is evident it is self published using either no editor or a cheap one.

He is dressing himself up to be a bigger deal than he is here. He writes gay furry porn.

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Are you really going to shame a furry... on XIV... when Limsa exists... The writing is shaky. No amount of deflection will fix that. It's okay though, Sentai writing is shaky depending on the series but it's usually a fun time either way.

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Originally Posted by Raoabolic

Are you really going to shame a furry... on XIV... when Limsa exists... The writing is shaky. No amount of deflection will fix that. It's okay though, Sentai writing is shaky depending on the series but it's usually a fun time either way.

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No. I am saying his opinion isn't the be all and end all as some people here like to think. He is a self-published writer, not selling much in the way of copies. He isn't a storyteller, and his opinion on this subject is no more exceptional than ours. He is dressing up the idea (likely for advertising purposes) that he is a crazy good writer, when in reality his books seem to be full of mistakes, poor structure, and lack of editing. I don't really think he is in a position to highlight story telling tropes and say "yeah, this is where FF went wrong" when he isn't a game writer. He is a self-published Kindle writer (with POD books)

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Originally Posted by PirateRyanG

No. I am saying his opinion isn't the be all and end all as some people here like to think. He is a self-published writer, not selling much in the way of copies. He isn't a storyteller, and his opinion on this subject is no more exceptional than ours.

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Careful, your bias is showing, lol. Instead of attacking credentials or history (Gee, I wonder who else uses this "tactic") how about attack them on what they are saying about the story itself. Big fan of the story he's criticizing? Show up with some counterpoints. Can't be that hard, right?