Anyone else get the feeling they are still figuring out the story for 6.X and 7.0 ?

I think they probably have a good idea of what they are doing at the very least, and likely a very detailed idea of exactly where 6.x and 7.0 will take us. Could things change between now and then? Sure, I doubt everything is set in stone yet but thats probably been the case for every expansion during said writing period. Personally speak I think we will get Void stuff for most of the patches, and then something new for 7.0 (Meracydia is my bet/hope!) All that said, I would not mind if the next expansion is a little longer then usual. I doubt they would do so intentionally, but I would rather they take their time. Plus could give us more time to explore The Thirteenth.

I am a little curious to what this event that will "completely change the story" at the end of 6.x could be.

I'm hoping it's something more...reserved like a sudden new threat from Ilsabard or Meracydia attacking Eorzea and we don't end up going shard-hopping again when we still haven't seen most of the Source.

It feels a bit soon to be dealing with world-ending existential threats again.

I'm pretty sure unlike with past expansions, since they wrapped up Endwalker itself in 6.0, they're trying to wrap up the void storyline using these patches so they can stop pretending they care that much about the plot threads started by Tanaka's team when 7.0 hits.

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The release timing is also an issue, the fact that Endwalker might last until Summer 2024 is a thought that weighs heavy on my mind.

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Then let that poor , troubled and care weighted mind find its ease, because that wont happen.

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The interviews made it seem like the Void isn't even going to be the focus of 7.0, and that it's subject to the reception by some of the more vocal sections of the playerbase on social media rather than establishing a beginning, middle and end for character arcs and the setting.

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Dont know where that came from, at this stage we dont know WHAT the focus will be in 7.0, so Id wait and see. You may be ( mind you i doubt it since you seem to think you can write better MMO content than the entire SE team combined ) pleasantly surprised.

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. Maybe it'll be that we just have to deal with the scions until the end of 6.5 and after that we get a whole new party,

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Ohhhh this..... "everyone doesnt want the scions anymore" schtick...Im still waiting for you to show me who "everyone" is..as far as I am aware, you dont speak for anyone save yourself.

Why on EARTH would the SE team throw away a character set that has a backstory from ARR to today now? What POSSIBLE reason would they have to do so? HOW would they even do that? On what premise?

Seriously....this seems to be your personal gripe...........but as far as I know, it aint anyone else's.

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

I'm pretty sure unlike with past expansions, since they wrapped up Endwalker itself in 6.0, they're trying to wrap up the void storyline using these patches so they can stop pretending they care that much about the plot threads started by Tanaka's team when 7.0 hits.

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Yeah, for whatever reason they really seem to want to get rid of most of the stuff tied to the days of 1.0. Unfortunately they seem more than willing to continue forcing the Scions front and centre - who are also from that era - but don't have much tact when it comes to appeasing those of us who like other things rooted not only in 1.0 but elsewhere.

Which, incidentally, is exactly one of the bigger mistakes that WoW made with its setting. A lot of people liked the night elves but instead of handling them well and treating them with dignity they were simply used as punching bags throughout many expansions.

Based on their responses to various interviews and their apparent surprise that people keep track of the story in...a story driven game I can't say I have much faith at the moment. Especially not with Endwalker being so steeped in protagonist centred morality and very childish takes on complex issues such as despair and societal disagreements.

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Which, incidentally, is exactly one of the bigger mistakes that WoW made with its setting

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Yes, well, THAT list would be more or less a full sized 200 page paperback.

Emphasis on "setting".

One of the reasons WoW's newest expansion has people optimistic is because it's focusing on existing plot threads and characters and takes place in a long-teased/mentioned part of the world when its previous expansion came almost entirely out of the left field to an extent that a common complaint was that it "didn't feel like Warcraft anymore". I'm genuinely afraid they might take that angle with XIV with all this mention of surprise and unpredictability in recent interviews pertaining to what's coming after Endwalker.

I don't care if it's predictable to go somewhere like Ilsabard or Meracydia next. It's the actual reasons we're going there that can be surprising instead.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

Emphasis on "setting".

One of the reasons WoW's newest expansion has people optimistic is because it's focusing on existing plot threads and characters and takes place in a long-teased/mentioned part of the world when its previous expansion came almost entirely out of the left field to an extent that a common complaint was that it "didn't feel like Warcraft anymore". I'm genuinely afraid they might take that angle with XIV with all this mention of surprise and unpredictability in recent interviews pertaining to what's coming after Endwalker.

I don't care if it's predictable to go somewhere like Ilsabard or Meracydia next. It's the actual reasons we're going there that can be surprising instead.

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Yoshi loves surprises, one reason this game (THANK GOD ) doesnt have a PTR.

i LIKE not knowing whats next...whats the fun if you know all about it ahead of time? As for WOW's new expac, its only in alpha and the cracks are ALREADY starting to show..not to mention the 2022 launch window which screams "rushed out the door" ....

Ilsabard? We are IN Ilsabard..thats where Thavnair is.

Thavnair is technically part of Ilsabard, but when it comes to the mainland we've only set foot in the outermost edges via sidestory regions like Terncliff and Bozja and the map remains hidden to this day.

The confirmation that we're not getting an exploration zone in this patch cycle is honestly making me feel even more strongly that 7.x could be Ilsabard given all the repeated mention we got of Corvos, yet it's seemingly going totally unaddressed in this patch cycle despite all the chaos that ensued over there during the Final Days.

We do still have a rather big elephant in the room situation when it comes to most of Ilsabard still being under the jurisdiction of the remaining Garlean legions and I could easily see that blowing up in the future with them possibly being the source of "change" that's been mentioned if they decide to take action in a manner that forces Eorzea and its allies to get involved.

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We do still have a rather big elephant in the room

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Nidhana is very svelte and cuddly, thankyouverymuch....

Setting aside the posts that have not been conducive to an open and honest discussion about the story's direction, the return to a potentially high fantasy setting in the provinces of Ilsabard with a plot that treats the political situation there with greater care than that of Garlemald would strongly interest me. However, the fact that the story doesn't even want to mention that part of the world right now instead of gradually leading up to it is disappointing.

Even if 7.0 turns out that way, we still have a very long time to sit through this plot they have for the Void wherein we're dealing with the same cast and being told repeatedly by some players that they don't want things to get dark or that the stakes of Endwalker were acceptable. Respectfully, I have to disagree on both points in that I want FFXIV to lean more towards a refined and mature way of storytelling and not being afraid to do bold things with its characters. That was how things were when I fell in love with the game back in Heavensward but now it seems that the storytelling is no longer aimed at players like me.

Pretty sure they know where the story is going for the next few years. Content isn't pulled out of thin air at the last second, it begins being worked on months or even a year in advance. For that they need a plan.

I wasn't expecting 7.0 to be all about the Void. We're already visiting it for the second time, and this will mostly consists of finding Vrtra's and beating up Golbez and the 4 fiends. In the interviews they said that instead of revealing what the next expansion might be about in an early X.3 like previous expansions, it'll likely take come in 6.5. That does not indicate they have no idea what they're doing, that just means they don't need a huge build up to our next destination.

I am not really sure which part of the interview gives the idea that they dont know what they are doing? For me it reads that the void will be bascially self contained and done in this expansion but whatever happens there will lead us into 7.0 And since that is still far away and they dont want to spoil something, they hint it with "something big could happen".

I think they just wanted to show us that this expansion we wont get a hint of the new direction until much later. But that does not imo mean that they somehow dont know about it themselves.

See, a few ways you need to look at it is:

a) They probably have the premise and the 'key points' of the story figured out, just not necessarily the nuances, specifics, or how the exact story will play out in cinematic. E.g., a draft for the stories may be completed, yet not reviewed/finalized into the final copy before they are actually acted on.

B) Similarly, they are always going to be vague with respect to the future of the story and how it will play out. Giving out anything beyond what they gave is potentially just leading to spoilers.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

B) Similarly, they are always going to be vague with respect to the future of the story and how it will play out. Giving out anything beyond what they gave is potentially just leading to spoilers.

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This right here.
We can speculate all day, and Yoshi will be weird and vague to stir discussion, its a great Marketing Strategy, and its working as intended with this thread as an example. But we wont actually know ANYTHING, until it actually happens.
And its better this way.

I think at this point I would prefer for him to be more honest and straightforward in order to set more accurate expectations. This "marketing strategy" was partially responsible for the negative reception of male Hrothgar in place of male Viera, and overall I'm simply tired of him trying to subvert our expectations.

I could see two possible scenarios for 7.0:

A corrupted Azdaja decides "The Source keeps messing around with us, let's invade the place" and leads a voidsent invasion of Meracydia, and the Scions make it happen because of their tampering with their cross-Shard travel investigations. 7.0 being a matter of taking down another of Midgardsomr's brood and defeating a voidsent invasion at full power (I don't think the denizens of the 13th are going to take kindly to you casually strolling in there and beating up several high-rank voidsent, again.)

That, or the 13th gets rejoined by whatever means, causing the voidsent to effectively become permanent denizens of the Source (nowhere to go back to), and 7.0 would be clearing up that mess across most of the known world (Meracydia too).

Also calling either a G'raha death or an Estinien death, based on these possibilities.

Honestly, I don't have much keeping me between patches anymore anyway. The long wait for 2-3 hours of MSQ and 2 hours worth of raid completion has me re-sub, complete new patch, un-sub for 3-4 months.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Unfortunately, yes. These recent interviews have only left me further disheartened and anxious about this game's future. The story is too big a part of mine and others' overall enjoyment and drive to participate and be in this game's world. The interviews made it seem like the Void isn't even going to be the focus of 7.0, and that it's subject to the reception by some of the more vocal sections of the playerbase on social media rather than establishing a beginning, middle and end for character arcs and the setting.

The release timing is also an issue, the fact that Endwalker might last until Summer 2024 is a thought that weighs heavy on my mind. As much as I want these patches to redeem and salvage my experience with this expansion, I don't know whether that will actually happen. Maybe it'll be that we just have to deal with the scions until the end of 6.5 and after that we get a whole new party, a whole new high fantasy setting, and things will finally reground themselves in a new adventure. I just don't know. I just want my confidence and faith to be restored.

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Are you ever positive about anything? Why assume the worst all the time? I don't understand people so focused on negativity 24/7.

Story wise, if they got all notes of what they want to happen or achieve, could be the same as the Game of Thrones showrunners, going onwards from season 6, as they know what each point will have to happen, but their bridge between each point is going to be ever so increasingly questionable quality, without proper build up.

Or, it could be to start from a place of introducing new cast of characters of importance to align around, albeit I don't know if they are simply trying to make a second attempt of Shadowbringers, or if they will try to craft a buildup akin to Heavensward.

Part of me really really wants them going back to High Fantasy style of story, Heavensward style, and looking at FF16, it could be possible. But on the other side we have Endwalker, which seems too close to modernity and slice of life of starbucks filler episodes in the making, to having Estinien becoming our Monty Python character of the medieval realm, going on a quest for treasure.

Please be high fantasy, trying to link FF16 or something, like its a shard or something, and wish to deepen its lore through either building upon, or paving the way for it, being part of the same world/shard, in another time.

Wishful thinking I know but FF16 seems promising, if only the story team there, Heavensward team, also were to craft 7.0.

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Originally Posted by Reap00

Are you ever positive about anything? Why assume the worst all the time? I don't understand people so focused on negativity 24/7.

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You may call it an assumption, others call it noticing a pattern.

As a long term player of this game it is in my interest for it to be successful, and in order to do that I think it is important to highlight issues as they appear so they can be addressed. While I would like to be positive and confident about the story, there has been a lot that has given me pause and it is crucial that I express myself honestly about this.

The Void being reduced to patch content filler arcs instead of a devoted expansion set in a dark fantasy world is disheartening, along with still having to carry on with a cast that even the most devoted fans of the story are growing tired of. It doesn't feel like those in charge of these aspects of the game are getting an accurate read from a wide variety of perspectives, causing them to double down on elements like modern slice of life or humor that is starting to deter players like me away from the game.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

As a long term player of this game it is in my interest for it to be successful, and in order to do that I think it is important to highlight issues as they appear so they can be addressed. While I would like to be positive and confident about the story, there has been a lot that has given me pause and it is crucial that I express myself honestly about this.

The Void being reduced to patch content filler arcs instead of a devoted expansion set in a dark fantasy world is disheartening, along with still having to carry on with a cast that even the most devoted fans of the story are growing tired of. It doesn't feel like those in charge of these aspects of the game are getting an accurate read from a wide variety of perspectives, causing them to double down on elements like modern slice of life or humor that is starting to deter players like me away from the game.

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Would you be happy if the game is more successful with a design that you don't like?

It's a tough feeling, and I'm not really picking on you, but it is easy to assume that since the game is doing things I do not like that the game is going downhill.

Hell, for me, the oversimplicity of Healers is my main pain point, but I have to accept that if the game is more successful by making healers terrible to play for me... what can I do?

It may be easy to blame those who are enjoying what is being delivered to, but that's the coward's way out.

In the end, it's best to voice your complaints for as long as you believe there is a chance they are to be received. But never forget that it's not just about us.

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Originally Posted by Irenia

Would you be happy if the game is more successful with a design that you don't like?

It's a tough feeling, and I'm not really picking on you, but it is easy to assume that since the game is doing things I do not like that the game is going downhill.

Hell, for me, the oversimplicity of Healers is my main pain point, but I have to accept that if the game is more successful by making healers terrible to play for me... what can I do?

It may be easy to blame those who are enjoying what is being delivered to, but that's the coward's way out.

In the end, it's best to voice your complaints for as long as you believe there is a chance they are to be received. But never forget that it's not just about us.

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I don't believe this game will see long term success if it continues in the current story direction that isn't all that grounded and is set to ensure the continued involvement of the Scions. Nor will the direction of gameplay be conducive to success either. I only hope they realize that before it is too late.

FFXIV in this direction may see short term success with the crowd that has been drawn in by these recent elements but it comes at the cost of players like myself and those who come for the fantasy part of Final Fantasy. We built this game up from its beginnings in ARR and now it feels like we're being pushed out. Why? Why are those of us who were loyal being treated this way? Why is there such a disconnect?

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Originally Posted by Irenia

Would you be happy if the game is more successful with a design that you don't like?

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*screams in Cataclysm*
Short term wins do not equate long term success.

They always have the major story beats planned out years in advanced even if the details are still being worked on. They need to give their art team and design teams time to work on the locations and characters which takes months of preparation. This much is known from past interviews which fits into how games are designed in general.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

I don't believe this game will see long term success if it continues in the current story direction that isn't all that grounded and is set to ensure the continued involvement of the Scions. Nor will the direction of gameplay be conducive to success either. I only hope they realize that before it is too late.

FFXIV in this direction may see short term success with the crowd that has been drawn in by these recent elements but it comes at the cost of players like myself and those who come for the fantasy part of Final Fantasy. We built this game up from its beginnings in ARR and now it feels like we're being pushed out. Why? Why are those of us who were loyal being treated this way? Why is there such a disconnect?

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Only the vocal minority feel this "disconnect."

Most of your post have been "I don't like these characters or these stories despite many other people who do, so therefore, based on my dislikes, the game is going downhill and the story is sucky because it isn't what *I* wanted it to be and didn't get rid of characters that *I* hate." I assure you, maybe 85% of the fandom likes the stories going forward and the characters. Most of the naysayer haters gather around the forums, but those who do enjoy it express their likes on reddit, tumblr, ect so you are not the majority of the fanbase.

To be honest, I don't understand why you follow a story where you hate the characters so much. If it were me, I wouldn't care how good a story is if I hate the main cast going through it. There are plenty of long running stories I have dropped after years of following cuz I didn't agree with how it went. I don't go on the forums expressing my hate every chance I get, trying to convince others to hate the thing I hate... seriously...

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Originally Posted by Kazemon15

Only the vocal minority feel this "disconnect."

Most of your post have been "I don't like these characters or these stories despite many other people who do, so therefore, based on my dislikes, the game is going downhill and the story is sucky because it isn't what *I* wanted it to be and didn't get rid of characters that *I* hate." I assure you, maybe 85% of the fandom likes the stories going forward and the characters. Most of the naysayer haters gather around the forums, but those who do enjoy it express their likes on reddit, tumblr, ect so you are not the majority of the fanbase.

To be honest, I don't understand why you follow a story where you hate the characters so much. If it were me, I wouldn't care how good a story is if I hate the main cast going through it. There are plenty of long running stories I have dropped after years of following cuz I didn't agree with how it went. I don't go on the forums expressing my hate every chance I get, trying to convince others to hate the thing I hate... seriously...

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"You are just a hater, just unsub why don't you!"
So it's come to this phase. I'm not even mad, just tired. lol

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Originally Posted by Raoabolic

*screams in Cataclysm*
Short term wins do not equate long term success.

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They do not correlate, neither positively nor negatively.
I'm just not egotistical enough to believe what I like will bring long term success.
I do believe that the devs have a clearer picture of the variables, and I hope they do plan for the long term.
Not that I won't stop advocating for what I like; just that what I like and what will prove successful may not be the same.
Or maybe it is. Who knows, really.

All I know is that I've often been proven right when it comes to the major controversies this game has had over the years, from Blue Mage to male Viera to now the situation that has been unfolding since Endwalker launched. There is still time to course correct and help make FFXIV the best it can be, but there has to be a discussion about the things we've been seeing. Preferably, this discussion should be able to take place without posters implying things about each other.

On Friday I want nothing more than to be proven wrong in terms of the story at least, to show that they are listening. The ideal scenario given the present setup would be for at the very least 1 or 2 new party members to appear rather than calling on most of the scions again. At this point none of them have a reason to be there besides Y'shtola and Estinien. I'd like to see Vrtra gain an adult body so he can fight with us too. I want the Void to be treated well and not wrapped up with a neat bow like they tried to do for Garlemald.

I believe that this will be better for the game than falling back on Thancred/G'raha Tia/Urianger/the Twins and to try and quickly go through the 13th in patch quests and dungeons rather than a dedicated expansion with zones and all. Given what we know of Meracydia and the New World, I believe that an expansion set in the 13th would be more appealing to Final Fantasy fans than a direct comparison to the Americas or Australia.

Which one of us here actually wants to play a whole expansion set in a place like those? Most of us here probably came in because the game was going somewhere and we wanted to be along for the ride, like the castles of Heavensward, the Far East in Stormblood, or the overall high fantasy setting of the First in Shadowbringers. Beyond just the setting though, we need them to be fleshed out to a better degree and have their conflicts reach ends that don't necessarily play into modern morality or political systems like they have done so repeatedly with nations like Ala Mhigo and Garlemald. The morals and ideals of Sharlayan don't work for the whole world, and spreading them this way via the Scions is making each nation less unique. The focus should be first on telling a thrilling, entertaining story and leaving the messaging as secondary so that it arises naturally rather than being forced.

As a former WoW player, who is seeing deep WoW story points of their next expansion spoiled in the peripheral vision of social media just by being an MMO gamer, I find the idea of not knowing what's happening next in FFXIV to be an extreme novelty, and a breath of fresh air!

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

the return to a potentially high fantasy setting in the provinces of Ilsabard with a plot that treats the political situation there with greater care than that of Garlemald would strongly interest me. However, the fact that the story doesn't even want to mention that part of the world right now instead of gradually leading up to it is disappointing.

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Graha mentioned Corvos a lot, enough to make me wonder if it was being hinted for the next expansion.

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I want FFXIV to lean more towards a refined and mature way of storytelling and not being afraid to do bold things with its characters. That was how things were when I fell in love with the game back in Heavensward but now it seems that the storytelling is no longer aimed at players like me.

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If you think about it, the people who were killed in the MSQ were not that endeared to us for a long time.

• The nameless scions killed by Livia.
• Moenbryda makes sudden first appearance in 2.0, then dies.
• Haurchefant just an ishgard soldier, battles with you a bit but you didn't really know him that long.
• Ysale designed for the HW expansion, died for the HW expansion.
• Papalymo had been lost since ARR, usually was away with Yda.
• Minfilia had been irrelevant and forgotten for many expansions when she died.
• Hydaelyn we barely had interaction with. Once we did, it was contained to an expansion.

None of these characters are in the same league as the amount of text interaction we have had with the current scions. Even at the point of each of their deaths, we had more interaction with others than them. You could argue they have never been as bold as we are imagining.

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The Void being reduced to patch content filler arcs instead of a devoted expansion set in a dark fantasy world is disheartening

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I agree it would be a good expansion idea, just like Shadowbringers but in reverse, but I am sure this occurred to them and they just decided to do it in patches for now. Maybe it's too close to Shadowbringers.

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It doesn't feel like those in charge of these aspects of the game are getting an accurate read from a wide variety of perspectives, causing them to double down on elements like modern slice of life or humor that is starting to deter players like me away from the game.

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The game has always had a strange humor thing. It was hard to read at first but I just accepted it as a quirk of the game. One of the recurring ones in beast tribes is making you complete a quest and then being honest that it was excrement.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

I'm not sure what more you want. The only way to get more information is to play it yourself and that isn't going to happen until it releases.

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Have they ever done live demonstrations or anything like that?

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

I agree it would be a good expansion idea, just like Shadowbringers but in reverse, but I am sure this occurred to them and they just decided to do it in patches for now. Maybe it's too close to Shadowbringers.

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The void has been an ever present topic and threat, much like Garlemald. I disagree with having a full expansion set in that world. We already had Shadowbringers. Why do we need something more or less the same in reverse?

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The game has always had a strange humor thing. It was hard to read at first but I just accepted it as a quirk of the game. One of the recurring ones in beast tribes is making you complete a quest and then being honest that it was excrement.

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XIV has a lot of reference humor in it. These quests in particular reference past MMO fetch quests where they straight up told you to go farm shit. Starting levels had you killing rats, bats and spiders and picking up all manner of trash. Having gone through that, it's actually funny to find out you've been tricked into doing that.

In general, the humor isn't all that strange if you've had any familiarity with anime and their storytelling. Even other FF games are like this. You need humor to balance out all the serious stuff or the whole experience is less enjoyable. The game is supposed to be a fun escape. If the story moved along more like Game of Thrones where all manner of characters are just getting killed for the sake of it, this game wouldn't last all that long.

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Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

Have they ever done live demonstrations or anything like that?

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Yoshi-P logs in and queues for some of the content we are getting and we see some of the first mechanics up until they get him. He shows off the new mounts and minions and hints where the story is heading. The patch trailers do the same thing and show us footage of new raids, dungeons and trials. They don't go as far as spoiling the entire fight and all of the mechanics though.

The only thing that concerns me story-wise in the future is the reliance on the Scions. I do not think they should be got rid off forever, but given how Endwalker ended with them going their separate ways and 7.0 meant to be a fresh start, meeting up with more then half of them straight after was a little disappointing in a way. Like, Y'shtola makes sense because of her intent to travel the Worlds, but could they have not give Estinien a rest? G'raha Tia? (Especially as he has his own staring role in the The Twelve raids) Its not a major concern though, I still enjoyed the patch and I suspect this is simply due to closing the gap between expansions. I still hope that 7.0 will be more of a fresh start with a new band of friends.

Have to say I really do not share in this idea that Endwalker’s story is the ‘beginning of the end’ for the game lore-wise. The game has many issues it needs to address, but story is not one of them. I understand some people here on this forum and elsewhere really did not like elements or the story as a whole, and thats fair enough. We all have our own opinions on these matters, but I for one really enjoyed it despite some flaws and if 7.0 is the same quality, then I will be a happy adventurer. Plus it seems the wider playerbase enjoyed the story, or at least seems to like it more then say ARR and Stormblood (I still love you Stormy…)

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

• The nameless scions killed by Livia.
• Moenbryda makes sudden first appearance in 2.0, then dies.
• Haurchefant just an ishgard soldier, battles with you a bit but you didn't really know him that long.
• Ysale designed for the HW expansion, died for the HW expansion.
• Papalymo had been lost since ARR, usually was away with Yda.
• Minfilia had been irrelevant and forgotten for many expansions when she died.
• Hydaelyn we barely had interaction with. Once we did, it was contained to an expansion.

None of these characters are in the same league as the amount of text interaction we have had with the current scions. Even at the point of each of their deaths, we had more interaction with others than them. You could argue they have never been as bold as we are imagining.

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Honestly, the only one from that list I'd agree with is possibly Ysayle. ARR was all about the Scions, and Paplymo was just as much a part of the team as anyone else. His was also the first death of a main Scion, which in itself gives it an impact. Not to mention the impact a certain side quest in Old Sharlayan has on people in EW...

Moenbryda's death was meant to be shocking, and again a first for a main associate character to be killed off.

Haurchefant's death remains one of the most tear-jerking moments in the entire game, and was most certainly as "bold" as we think it is. People still have strong reactions to even little things like your character doing the /haurchefant emote when talking to Venat in Elpis. He was much, much more than "just an Ishgard soldier"; he was the first friend and ally we had in an otherwise hostile land. It's even stronger in the Japanese version, where the feelings between Haurchefant and the PC are explicitly made deeper.

Minfilia was an extremely popular character and the single biggest driving force behind your PC's story progression in ARR. While she took a back seat afterward, that doesn't mean people will suddenly forget about her or think it's meaningless if something happens to her. That still hits people deep.

Hydaelyn has also been there the entire time, and the connection with her was even substantially deepened with the entire Elpis part of EW itself.

These are people who were significantly and deeply endeared to us for a long time. For some of the ones who died earlier (Haurchefant, Papalymo, etc.), check YT or Reddit threads from years ago when those deaths occurred and you'll see people most definitely felt strongly about them back then, too.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

If you think about it, the people who were killed in the MSQ were not that endeared to us for a long time.

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And yet, each and every npc on that list was way dearer to me than any of the current scions, except Tataru and Alphi. If the rest of the scions was to die now (like they pretended to do many times so far) I wouldn't even be sad, maybe even happy, while for almost all those I cried plenty when they died.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

Haurchefant's death remains one of the most tear-jerking moments in the entire game, and was most certainly as "bold" as we think it is.

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It wasn't for me and it wasn't for many people. It was a shocking moment, but I was not as connected to Haurchefant as the game wanted to pretend I was. I had forgotten about him by the time we visited the grave at the end of Heavensward and I didn't care for seeing him in the 3.3 cutscene where we throw the eyes away. I would have rather seen Ysale next to me. I think most people's connection to Haurchefant now is more about the fanfiction and fan art that has been created around him.

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Minfilia was an extremely popular character and the single biggest driving force behind your PC's story progression in ARR. While she took a back seat afterward, that doesn't mean people will suddenly forget about her or think it's meaningless if something happens to her. That still hits people deep.

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If, as a new player, you do the story right now, then Minfilia is probably recent in your mind, but if you only did ARR all the way back in 2013-2015 then she is going to be very faded in your mind by now. It was a lot easier to lose her after that many years but I can understand if that is different for a new player.

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Hydaelyn has also been there the entire time

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Not talking to us at all though. Almost the only thing we got when we talked to her was either "Hear, Feel, Think" or words by proxy of Minfilia and then we had nothing for many, many years. There isn't that much connection to be had with a silent crystal. :D

If the only deep connection to Hydaelyn that we really formed was in EW, then it doesn't count as bold because it was effectively a character created in EW, to die in EW. That's very different to what I think is implied by "bold", which is killing Alphinaud, Y'shtola and the other scions who have been with you for many expansions talking to you for the last 10 years.

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Originally Posted by Tlamila

And yet, each and every npc on that list was way dearer to me than any of the current scions, except Tataru and Alphi. If the rest of the scions was to die now (like they pretended to do many times so far) I wouldn't even be sad, maybe even happy, while for almost all those I cried plenty when they died.

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I know how I would feel because I was confronted with this possibility in EW and although I might handle some of them dying, my feeling toward all of them dying was the very word they were using, despair. They spent 10 years building these characters up and to get rid of all of them would be like throwing the last 10 years out of the window. They could kill some of them or make them all side characters, but I don't think killing all of them would have been the right answer.

I wouldn't mind if Tataru and Alphinaud died, to be honest. My attachment to Alphinaud decreased a lot when the actor changed in Heavensward.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

I think at this point I would prefer for him to be more honest and straightforward in order to set more accurate expectations. This "marketing strategy" was partially responsible for the negative reception of male Hrothgar in place of male Viera, and overall I'm simply tired of him trying to subvert our expectations.

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your expectations are unrealistic at best.

he will never state specifically what is coming up, thats not how things are done.. ever. why? because then other companies can rush to release the same kind of thing first. to expect full disclosure is to live in a fantasy world. most negative receptions are a result of a player base expecting something that was never deliverable in the first place.

I'll decide after things are released whether they are good or not. getting all hyoed up or depressed over something in the future is a certain path to mental health issues. I prefer to manage expectations and either be pleasantly surprised, or decide to take a break and enjoy other options. dont tie your happiness to a game... it wont end well.

I dont see them AT ALL trying to "subvert expectations". all I see is that their hands are tied in releasing information. for good reasons. I think you read far too much into it and are making assumptions