Anti-Exploit Measures for Caravan (Can I have it?)

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Originally Posted by Answa

Huh? I've never even seen your character in game... Are you seriously claiming that I said that to you?

I get really pissed off, but I don't tell anyone to die. I tell my party to let you die. Much more humane, if you ask me.

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I wish I had a screenshot... If I had known this was gonna come up here, I definitely would have taken one.

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Originally Posted by Answa

There's no way you can spin it other than you're being a douche. You can steal a party's mobs if you're farming an item they drop, the game allows you to by design. Do you do it? Hopefully not. Why? Because you'd be a douche.

This is the same thing.

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This is not fair nor is it accurate. There is no reason someone should have to sit out for two or three HOURS because a pty doesn't want to share. First come first serve. Ideally you SHOULD be rotating if there are more than 8 people who wish to participate. Otherwise YOUR being the dushe. The way Behest generally works(when people used to DO behest), NPC spawns, people rush to get one of the 8 spots, pty forms from people who got a spot...and go. Everyone else? Too slow, try again next time.

This is not a leve quest, its not an instanced event, it's an open world event like behest.

Opening up the numbers to more than 8 members would be ideal, there is not even a real reason to force this to be a pty event. No one is in it for exp, in the end we just want the seals, and you don't have to form a pty to get those.

Don't try to pull that card. That's just rude gameplay.

Whining that someone beat you signing up for Caravan is like crying because you were not fast enough to get into Behest. There are not the dushe, the person bitching about it is. If you want to farm seals in a pty go do Toto Rak, Caravan is first come first serve.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

I wish I had a screenshot... If I had known this was gonna come up here, I definitely would have taken one.

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Try harder to troll. I'm not even in the Flames. I'd love to see your Photoshop skills prove you right. Nevermind, resolved it ingame.

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Originally Posted by Hayden

This is not fair nor is it accurate. There is no reason someone should have to sit out for two or three HOURS because a pty doesn't want to share. First come first serve. Ideally you SHOULD be rotating if there are more than 8 people who wish to participate. Otherwise YOUR being the dushe. The way Behest generally works(when people used to DO behest), NPC spawns, people rush to get one of the 8 spots, pty forms from people who got a spot...and go. Everyone else? Too slow, try again next time.

This is not a leve quest, its not an instanced event, it's an open world event like behest.

Opening up the numbers to more than 8 members would be ideal, there is not even a real reason to force this to be a pty event. No one is in it for exp, in the end we just want the seals, and you don't have to form a pty to get those.

Don't try to pull that card. That's just rude gameplay.

Whining that someone beat you signing up for Caravan is like crying because you were not fast enough to get into Behest. There are not the dushe, the person bitching about it is. If you want to farm seals in a pty go do Toto Rak, Caravan is first come first serve.

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No, it's not. If someone did what Ms. Molly did, then I'd be fine with it (in principle--I'd still be a little pissed, since I'm human and not a rational rule robot [alliteration!]), because she said she brought a small group with her.

That's fine.

If a solo person come along, expecting to get a free ride, that's where I see a problem, since through zero effort in that person's part, there's now seven people doing all the work that they planned on doing, while this 8th (who in my experience never says anything, just leeches) asshole just gets a free ride.

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Originally Posted by Vice

Only eight people at any given time can take part in a Caravan Escort, so when you manage to gather a full party in hopes of doing 1,000 seal runs and you're greeted by a parasite who edges out an unlucky party member, then proceeds to take a seat at the end, no one's particularly happy.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

I've done that, but it was because I got the quest before somebody else and the party leader refused to invite me. He actually accused me of stealing from the party.

Please remember folks, caravan escorts are first come first served. Just because you did the last one, that does not guarantee you a spot in the next run, your MUST be faster than the other folks waiting for the quest.

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Caravan escort is an open event. Not instance, raid party or whatever. Party is only created for those who take the quest, just like behest. It's the problem of players' mindset here. Some players think they are given the priorities if they have a party before quests are taken*facepalm*

I see competition getting a lot worse with this:

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Originally Posted by Rukkirii

I have good news for all of you about Caravan Defense!

In patch 1.22b we will be adding a special quest that will open up access to other city’s caravan defense quests so that you will be able to participate with other players, regardless of which Grand Company they belong to. On top of that, we are adding new rewards for completing caravan defense. :)

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They really should make it instanced or something. I'd love to be able to easily put together caravan parties within linkshells without having to be exclusive, but so would everyone else.

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Originally Posted by Eagleheart

I concur. The leve system is severely underutilized, in my opinion. (o.O ) People talk about the difficulty of balancing lockouts with drop rates. Why not make things like Ifrit cost leve tokens?

Some balancing would be in order, of course, but it seems a good starting point.

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I also agree....

I know leves kinda got a bad wrap back in the day; but it's time to bring it back with the right idea this time. It just makes good sense to use leves for these types of things (guardia/ifrit, caravans etc)

The content was designed so that people who are playing solo would be able to join. If that wasn't the intention, then it wouldn't have been designed that way. If the dev's didn't want solo players joining a already developed party, they would have instanced it in the first place. However, the unintended consequence of the type of content is people going AFKing and leeching, which is a problem, (not in molly's case though, if a party leader is flat out refusing to invite you then whatever), and should probably be fixed.

Anti-Exploit-Measures-For-Caravan 1: Reward is based on a minimum threshold of activity (must attack at least 10% of the mobs, must heal at least 10% of the people involved in killing 10% of the mobs). Low enough to not be a nuisance, high enough to not be hiding out the whole time.

(Note, might be good idea to extend that to Levequests too?)


Anti-Exploit-Measures-For-Caravan 2: Note and /blist the person who does this. This is a community. People who earn a bad reputation will have that stick with them for a long time.

o.o I..

I just turn in gathered items for seal rewards.

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Originally Posted by Answa;7093601No, it's not. If someone did what Ms. Molly did, then I'd be fine with it (in principle--I'd still be a little pissed, since I'm human and not a rational rule robot [alliteration!

), because she said she brought a small group with her.

That's fine.

If a solo person come along, expecting to get a free ride, that's where I see a problem, since through zero effort in that person's part, there's now seven people doing all the work that they planned on doing, while this 8th (who in my experience never says anything, just leeches) asshole just gets a free ride.

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That's fine to be angry about somebody leeching. In my case, I came to help. I only leeched as payback for people being assholes. I did it just to piss off the party leader. However, I don't think there is anything wrong with somebody showing up alone. In fact, because of the number of people that are sometimes waiting at the NPC, that's actually preferable. Chances are, if you bring a group of 4 to the NPC, some of those 4 are getting left out. Most of the time there are more than four peple already running the escort missing because it's the best way to get seals.

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Originally Posted by Riposte

I'm not sure if you are considering it, but some monsters spawn in advance. To kill them quickly one must leave the caravan before it reaches them.

Also I've never see a 1000 seal run.

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http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...entry?e=374120

Also, if you're doing 1k seal runs then the people doing the caravan are not going to get back to the guy before recruitment opens up again. So anyone standing there could go ahead and grab it. If you don't like it, then don't do the 1k seal runs to ensure you are back there before recruitment opens.

If someone outside the party does grab it and whoever in the party was not able to get it, they should drop to allow the outside person in. If they don't i would consider the party douchebags, not the random guy who grabbed it (unless of course he is leeching just for the hell of it, as OP said).

Also, these can be done with 4 people, maybe less. It's not like dungeons where you have to have a minimum number of people to get in. The only time you need more is if you are trying for the speed achievements. I dunno why anyone would sit in town trying to gather a full party before heading out there, only to find there are already others out there doing it. Remember the old party recruitment feature? It actually works pretty well for gathering players for caravan in my experience.

Agreeing with what a few said;

-First come first serve~
-Don't need eight, certainly don't recruit eight before evening going there
-1000 seals will put you at risk of losing next round, your own prerogative
-Speed run was np with 5 ppl on first try (hello BLM and CNJ (gnats for flames))
-I SB gear there so you better invite me if I claim duty
-I'd do what Molly did in that situation, although I'd never do as OP stated
-Caravan rules = Behest 2011 rules


If leechers are a problem, maybe we start a AFK leecher flame war thread in our server forums; or just keep this thread alive and demand a dev response

I have to blame this entire argument on how caravans use to be pre-patch. You would NEVER have enough ppl to actually complete the caravan by just standing around and talking to the npc. You would have been there for days waiting. The only thing one could do to ensure that they could complete caravans would be to shout for it, gather a full pt, and set out. That way guaranteed that you would have enough people for the caravan runs and it was never a problem.

Times change, and that wasn't how caravans were intended to work. I realize that this has now become a severe issue with many, but you have to look at it as a behest now... You can't gather a full pt in town and do caravans for hrs like you use to. It's not how it was meant to work.

Leechers are a whole different story. They sucked in behests and they suck in a caravan escort. SE knew what a problem it was in behests, so they really should have come up with a way to remedy that before the implementation of caravan escorts. However, the flaw does lie with the users, since they are the ones who are d-bags and leeching. And don't tell me that it's so hard not to exploit because the opportunity to do so is so easily available. Empathy can be an amazing deterrent if you just use it...

bump, since the introduction of Relic Weapons, there's been a swell of players farming the seals, 8 spots are not enough, and there's been increasing amount of drama surrounding this.

Happened today. A guy was crafting at Drybone by the npc as soon as we warped there. He was mid craft so he couldn't do anything. As soon as we finished the first one, he was in the next caravan and sat at camp doing nothing.

People in this community KNOW how to kill a game. As soon as I told him off for leeching, he sent his linkshell on us (3 people to our full party) and had them join up caravans. Really? Pathetic...

I don't do caravans any more. Just gather items for seals for turn in and turn in Ifrit weps.

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

I don't do caravans any more. Just gather items for seals for turn in and turn in Ifrit weps.

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Lol not everyone has a high leveled DoL class or has good enough luck to get Ifrit weapons every other run xD If you could pass your luck to me, I'll gladly spam Ifrit when I can

First off: Exploiting / leeching should be fixed, no questioning about that. As for the second argument, I can't say I'm sure about which side is right.

Yeah, caravan is suposed to be like behest, first come first serve. However, unlike behest, the rewards are meaningful enough to warrant parties dedicated to do it exclusively - it's the kind of thing linkshells get organized to do. "No one" went to do behests as their main content, outside of specific cases. Even LS groups doing behest were more like "well, it's behest time, let's get this 'free leve' and go back to our levequest sharing pt or w/e".

As such, it really was no big deal to adhere to the first come / first serve rule.

Caravan security, on the other hand, is a more focused event, specially the 45. People gather to do only that, in their 8man pt. I doubt anyone would have a problem with alternating runs with another group, as 1k seal runs usually last enough time for the pt to miss the next caravan anyways.

However, you have to admit that it's very frustrating when 1-2 guys want to do it and "depend" on your pt to be able. It's like having forced randoms join your LS event, and I can see why people might not want to do that. They're working to get their seals for their LS / pt and probably planned the event in advance explicitly for that. They can do it without you, but you can't do it without them, and you're taking the place of a member of their group.

I know it's a very bad analogy, but imagine you're in a park or w/e with a group of friends, then one of you goes to the bathroom and during that time, a random guy sits in where he was. It's not "against" the rules, but it would probably piss off the group and they would likely go find another place to sit if that random guy didn't want to leave.

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

Lol not everyone has a high leveled DoL class or has good enough luck to get Ifrit weapons every other run xD If you could pass your luck to me, I'll gladly spam Ifrit when I can

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I WISH I COULD! It used to be fun to get a drop.

Now I feel like a greedy-guts because there are so many less fortunate.

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

I WISH I COULD! It used to be fun to get a drop.

Now I feel like a greedy-guts because there are so many less fortunate.

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Haha don't get me wrong, I have the weapons I want/need. Your luck would just be for selling them off xD

Hey! XD

Don't go undercutting the Primal Materia market now...

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

Hey! XD

Don't go undercutting the Primal Materia market now...

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Now if only the rare materia from the rare weapons was actually a 100% chance instead of getting DEX III

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Originally Posted by Sasunaich

Hallo,

ich habe neue Infos zum Thema Karawanen-Begleitschutz für euch.

Uns wurde vermehrt berichtet, dass einzelne Spieler nach Beginn des Events direkt zum Endpunkt laufen und dort darauf warten, dass sie die Belohnung erhalten.

In Version 2.0 werden wir jedoch Anpassungen am Karawanen-Begleitschutz vornehmen und uns gleichzeitig auch mit diesem Problem auseinandersetzen.

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http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post728879

Hello,

I have new infos about caravan escourt for you.

We have got increasing reports that some players just after the start of the event go to the end point and wait there, that they receive the reward.

In version 2.0 we will make adjustments to the caravan escort and at the same time concern with this problem.

I hope my english translation is halfway understandable.

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Originally Posted by Felis

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post728879

Hello,

I have new infos about caravan escourt for you.

We have got increasing reports that some players just after the start of the event go to the end point and wait there, that they receive the reward.

In version 2.0 we will make adjustments to the caravan escort and at the same time concern with this problem.

I hope my english translation is halfway understandable.

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Kind of upsetting that it couldn't be any sooner but thanks for the translation. Need to do like GW2, the more you participate, the higher the reward is for you at the end.

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Originally Posted by AdvancedWind

I know it's a very bad analogy, but imagine you're in a park or w/e with a group of friends, then one of you goes to the bathroom and during that time, a random guy sits in where he was. It's not "against" the rules, but it would probably piss off the group and they would likely go find another place to sit if that random guy didn't want to leave.

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You're right, it is a bad analogy, and one that needs more thought put into it. In your park scenario, you and your friends have reserved that table by sitting there. In FFXIV on the other hand, there is no way to reserve a spot in caravan escort. If anything your example serves to show why I had more of a right to be in that escort mission than the others, because I was waiting at the starting point before anyone else was there.

Well, I admitted it was very bad right from the start =P.

But my main point still stands. I don't see anything inherently wrong with a party not wanting to do caravans with an outsider, even if he got there first, and I wouldn't call people who do not invite these people / ask them to leave / leave the caravan area / etc "douchebags".

They aren't doing anything wrong by wanting to do caravan only with their members, and I also think that in these situations, the solo guy should have some common sense and leave the caravan. Maybe try to get another group to do it with him, but not screw up the current party because they don't want him. No one is forced to accept him into the party; heck, as I mentioned, the solo guy wouldn't even be able to do it without a group in the first place, and most caravan groups are planned in advance, unlike behest.

Someone getting there and wanting to get in an already formed party is basically saying: "Well, you don't want to do with me? Tough luck bro, you either do it with me or no one does it at all".

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Originally Posted by AdvancedWind

Well, I admitted it was very bad right from the start =P.

But my main point still stands. I don't see anything inherently wrong with a party not wanting to do caravans with an outsider, even if he got there first, and I wouldn't call people who do not invite these people / ask them to leave / leave the caravan area / etc "douchebags".

They aren't doing anything wrong by wanting to do caravan only with their members, and I also think that in these situations, the solo guy should have some common sense and leave the caravan. Maybe try to get another group to do it with him, but not screw up the current party because they don't want him. No one is forced to accept him into the party; heck, as I mentioned, the solo guy wouldn't even be able to do it without a group in the first place, and most caravan groups are planned in advance, unlike behest.

Someone getting there and wanting to get in an already formed party is basically saying: "Well, you don't want to do with me? Tough luck bro, you either do it with me or no one does it at all".

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You're ignoring the fact that the escort missions were designed so that nobody could reserve a spot. It's designed that way to force people to take turns. I'm sorry, but people can cry about it all they want, it's first come first served.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

You're ignoring the fact that the escort missions were designed so that nobody could reserve a spot. I'm sorry, but people can cry about it all they want, it's first come first served.

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I'm not ignoring that fact, I just consider it irrelevant in this case.

Can the random guy do it by himself? No.
The party wants to do with him? No.


What exactly someone gains by still waiting there under these conditions? It doesn't matter who got there first or that you can't reserve a spot, neither him or the party will do the caravan that way. Both sides just lose time and probably generate pointless drama that could've been avoided.

Yeah, it would be nice if the party just did with him, and I honestly would do that if I was in the party and everyone agreed with that, but if I go to a caravan security area by myself hoping to get a party, sign up for a caravan and then an entire party shows up to do it and they don't want me in, I would just leave instead of ruining their runs when I can't do it by myself anyways.

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Originally Posted by AdvancedWind

I'm not ignoring that fact, I just consider it irrelevant in this case.

Can the random guy do it by himself? No.
The party wants to do with him? No.


What exactly someone gains by still waiting there under these conditions? It doesn't matter who got there first or that you can't reserve a spot, neither him or the party will do the caravan that way. Both sides just lose time and probably generate pointless drama that could've been avoided.

Yeah, it would be nice if the party just did with him, and I honestly would do that if I was in the party and everyone agreed with that, but if I go to a caravan security area by myself hoping to get a party, sign up for a caravan and then an entire party shows up to do it and they don't want me in, I would just leave instead of ruining their runs when I can't do it by myself anyways.

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what do they gain? the get the escort quest, I thought that was rather obvious. I'm sorry man, your argument carries no weight. You cannot argue that because you did the previous caravan escort that you somehow have more rights to do the next one than the guys who's been waiting 20 minutes for the last mission to complete. There are only 24 level 45 caravan escort slots on the server, and there are potentially way more people at any given time that want to do them. For this reason you must take turns and cannot reserve a spot in the next one before the NPC pops.

You can wish all you want for the system to work differently, but the fact of the matter is you are forced to take turns by design. Besides, that way is the most fair to everyone.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

what do they gain? the get the escort quest, I thought that was rather obvious.

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An escort quest that I'm pretty sure 99% of the player base cannot complete solo. I'm not talking about two parties competing and one wanting to monopolize the place.

You don't need to form a party beforehand. the party forms as people sign up for the quest. Again, that is by design. I don't know why you can't understand that. It forces people to take turns instead of hogging the escort mission.

If you want content you can do with a pre-determined group there is plenty of that in the game, but the escort missions are not it. If they were, they would either be instanced, or multiple parties could take part simultaneously.

There could always be a "Join as a Party" or "Join Solo" option.
-The Party (if full) auto spawns the event and gets their run.
-The Party (if missing some) is filled in by Solo's If requested by Party Leader.
-The Solos are then Banded together and must make due with a pug.

Just an idea. They are already considering a LFG system.

Patch 1.22c just made this a million times worse... 25,000 seals just for the new company promotion.

Everyone's going to be rushing to do escorts now, I don't even want to think about the impending drama. :(

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Originally Posted by DemonForest

Just an idea. They are already considering a LFG system.

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we have a system for looking for groups, nobody uses it.

I agree with molly it should be pick up and play like behest

Agree they should allow this to be instanced content IMO, I know people will say bleh more instanced, but it makes sense that a LS/friends wants to do it on their own without worrying about other people ruining it for them.

They should at least have something in place to measure a players activity and if its under a certain threshold they get reduced seals or something.

They should just make it an open world instance like leves are and let multiple ppl do it at the same time.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Agree they should allow this to be instanced content IMO, I know people will say bleh more instanced, but it makes sense that a LS/friends wants to do it on their own without worrying about other people ruining it for them.

They should at least have something in place to measure a players activity and if its under a certain threshold they get reduced seals or something.

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It's not instanced because it's a sort of 'solo' content, you show up solo and get a group of other people together who have done the same thing, ie shown up solo or with one or two other people. Caravan escorts are meant to be solo friendly, and casual friendly content.

I'm hopeing in 2.0 everything gets the player limit taken off of it and these things play out like XI - Campaign

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Originally Posted by Firon

They should just make it an open world instance like leves are and let multiple ppl do it at the same time.

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The counter point to this is that if they did, people could not show up solo and take part in it.