This is your regular reminder that apartments are a thing.

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Originally Posted by katthekat

I will repeat myself. Houses should not be prestige content when they are advertised as being a big social part of the game.
Even if one server would kill for just an apartment, it doesn't mean apartments are equal to houses, either. They are still incomplete in comparison to the full housing experience that is available and should be available for all players who put in the effort to obtain it, not just those who win a game of chance.
And no, the lottery isn't to blame for housing being RNG; it was RNG when placard clicking was a thing, too. Housing became available at a random time, and if you were clicking at that time, you won. They just made it so that rather than dedicating a full day to it and losing, you have less dedicated time but have to wait several days for your results instead.

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The only difference is a 16 slot outdoor and lack of crossbreeding. Outside of that much not much different. But tbh, i dont see the system as problematic. I see what they are trying to do and im ok with it.

Not to say you are wrong for asking, i do agree with a increase in slots and a shared balcony where players can crossbreed would e nice. But ive played by the systems rules since 2014 and i dont have as much of a issue with it, ill wait for a house. The apt had held me over for a year until a house opened up and i got my first post transfer house.

apartments are a very limited alternative
they have lower item limits
they don't have a yard for outside items
You can't add your friend or partner to your apartment/ cannot share apartment space

Why would someone want that when they can get a house & have:
more item space
can have multiple people share the house
have a yard
again, more item space/ more decorations
have more than 1 floor

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Originally Posted by HeyMcFly

apartments are a very limited alternative
they have lower item limits
they don't have a yard for outside items
You can't add your friend or partner to your apartment/ cannot share apartment space

Why would someone want that when they can get a house & have:
more item space
can have multiple people share the house
have a yard
again, more item space/ more decorations
have more than 1 floor

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It is an alternative for you until you get to obtain a plot at next plot release.
However, the odd of getting a plot at new plot release got destroyed, this is making apartment more important
It is either you stay stubborn like certain poster in this thread or just get apartment as alternative, it is really player's own hoice

Don't get me wrong, I DO WISH to see more plot release, but at same time, I also realize the fact it is physically impossible.

You are saying this like people would not complain about apartments. Mon, every time I post about housing I keep saying I would be completely fine with apartments if they had medium or large ones. They are instanced, so I don't see the reason why they cannot make that happen?

Also, you lost the ability to all outdoor decor.

I appreciate all these comments, but this is getting a bit tiresome. Let people complain if they want to. They paid for the full game and they pay a monthly sub, and some of us pay retainers too for monthly. So let us complain for something we pay for... It will not hurt you, neither will it hurt SE. It is for them to be aware and being reminded.

I don't really get why people want to silence others.... whats the gain on that for you?

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Originally Posted by Shuuli

You are saying this like people would not complain about apartments. Mon, every time I post about housing I keep saying I would be completely fine with apartments if they had medium or large ones. They are instanced, so I don't see the reason why they cannot make that happen?

Also, you lost the ability to all outdoor decor.

I appreciate all these comments, but this is getting a bit tiresome. Let people complain if they want to. They paid for the full game and they pay a monthly sub, and some of us pay retainers too for monthly. So let us complain for something we pay for... It will not hurt you, neither will it hurt SE. It is for them to be aware and being reminded.

I don't really get why people want to silence others.... whats the gain on that for you?

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It's a big problem with these forums. People who don't care about these issues coming or who vehemently disagree and raising their pitchforks because we do care.

Lots of people have been civil and respectful in saying they're fine with the system, and that's great. But essentially telling people "You're dissatisfaction with a system means nothing, you should be fine with the alternatives, and we don't care why it's not worth it to you because it's worth it to us" is what I see a lot of. But, hey, that's forums for ya LOL.

The inability to use outdoor furniture and the 100 slots is the biggest reason I won't waste my money on an apartment. Simply not worth.

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Originally Posted by ballprince

The inability to use outdoor furniture and the 100 slots is the biggest reason I won't waste my money on an apartment. Simply not worth.

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Yes they're limited and yes they need to improve them. They are certainly too small and we should have the options for medium and large with different layouts. They would at the least reduce the demand for ward housing because not everyone wants a garden or a workshop for that matter. Private houses don't have access to workshops anyway but gardens do mean a lot to many people.

I will add that I have both private and FC's and I do not use the gardens or the workshops even though I've bought them for friends who might want to who are part of the FC.

Apartment could be a real thing if they were bigger and if we were allowed to put more items. I totally understand all the technical limitation and the cost of housing.

The main problem for me is the huge gap between the house and the apartment which can lead to some kind of frustration.

Having different apartment size with more items to put in could be a good solution between keeping the current system or allow all people to buy a house if they want to (which is very problematic technically and for the cost for Square Enix). Personally I would be very satisfy with a bigger apartment and the possibility to have some kind of outside view like a balcony :)
Obviously with the same view for everyone to keep the technical benefit of instance.

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Originally Posted by ballprince

It's a big problem with these forums. People who don't care about these issues coming or who vehemently disagree and raising their pitchforks because we do care.

Lots of people have been civil and respectful in saying they're fine with the system, and that's great. But essentially telling people "You're dissatisfaction with a system means nothing, you should be fine with the alternatives, and we don't care why it's not worth it to you because it's worth it to us" is what I see a lot of. But, hey, that's forums for ya LOL.

The inability to use outdoor furniture and the 100 slots is the biggest reason I won't waste my money on an apartment. Simply not worth.

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I'm not trying to say you (or anyone) should be satisfied with an apartment when compared to a house. That's a matter of personal preference.

But use of a system is the best indicator of interest in a system and apartments are a part of the housing system just as houses are. If players aren't using what is available to them, how is SE to know they're interested in the system at all?

In addition to indicating interest, getting an apartment gives you a place to store at least indoor furnishings that you might obtain through quests or quick ventures without clogging up your inventory space. You can also experiment with the decorating system. When I had been limited to an apartment, I played around with it a lot to learn what I could do with furnishings (like the glitch tricks that were just starting to get shared within the community - anyone else remember when the big trick was learning how to float a bed or stage directly on top of a window or chair rail because we didn't know any other ways to float items?). Once I was able to get my house, I had a few ideas firmly set in mind that I could immediately use to start decorating.

It also gives you a place to train and color your chocobo if you use your chocobo and very convenient marketboard access.

I'm not saying settle for just an apartment. I am saying at least make use of an apartment so SE knows you're interested in housing.

Also continue to enter the lottery each time even if there's only a single house available. Demonstrate the demand exists.

Man, I feel like people are asking for a lot of heavy stuff to be included in Apartments and I'm just like...

Can I just have 25-30 more item slots (50 would be awesome but 25 would be fine) so I don't have to wade into the lottery anymore? That it literally all it would take to make me happy with my apartment on my alt.

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Originally Posted by Issaella

Man, I feel like people are asking for a lot of heavy stuff to be included in Apartments and I'm just like...

Can I just have 25-30 more item slots (50 would be awesome but 25 would be fine) so I don't have to wade into the lottery anymore? That it literally all it would take to make me happy with my apartment on my alt.

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YoshiP did state a few months before EW launch that increasing interior item limits is on their to do list but didn't provide an estimate of when it might happen. It's definitely something they're keeping in mind.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

But use of a system is the best indicator of interest in a system and apartments are a part of the housing system just as houses are. If players aren't using what is available to them, how is SE to know they're interested in the system at all?

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Raw usage statistics are one of the worst metrics you can use to base development decisions on. You need a proper root-cause analysis to determine why uptake is so low. Consider the following: Hrothgar is one of the least played races. Is it because bestial races are unpopular or does it have more to do with male only, super limited selection of head gear, having to pay RL money to change the mane? The developers' contempt for the race as seen by the joke hairstyles?

If they had to rely on raw metrics then lottery participation is superior although that's subject to players giving up in disgust.

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Originally Posted by GeminiReed

Raw usage statistics are one of the worst metrics you can use to base development decisions on. You need a proper root-cause analysis to determine why uptake is so low. Consider the following: Hrothgar is one of the least played races. Is it because bestial races are unpopular or does it have more to do with male only, super limited selection of head gear, having to pay RL money to change the mane? The developers' contempt for the race as seen by the joke hairstyles?

If they had to rely on raw metrics then lottery participation is superior although that's subject to players giving up in disgust.

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What other means do they have to rely on to figure out what players are interested in?

Most players don't leave feedback. When they do, it tends to be feedback due to dissatisfaction instead of satisfaction. Even when the feedback is dissatisfaction, the players are usually still engaging in the content. Usage shows that there is something the player wants out of the content even if it's not everything the player wants.

Trying to use Hrothgar as a comparison point doesn't really work because racial choice has different motivations and incentives compared to housing. (As a side note, I can't recall seeing anyone say "I'm not playing Hrothgar because it lacks this". I do see them saying "I play Hrothgar but it lacks this that I would like you to add".)

I'm not trying to say that usage metrics are all they rely on but it is something that every game develop relies on heavily since they lack other ways of collecting information.

So let's take housing specifically. Why would someone get an apartment if they aren't interested in housing?

Cheapest access to a Chocobo Stable unless they're part of a FC with a FC house and Chocobo Stable placed. There is no other way to change a chocobo's color and training helps increase a chocobo's rank faster.

Easy access to a marketboard or Delivery Moogle without having to go through a crowded city and probably cheapest when it comes to teleport cost as well.

Lots of gil and nothing to spend it on, might as well waste half a million on an apartment.

Beyond that, I can't think of any reason for someone with no interest in housing to get an apartment. Perhaps others can think of more reasons.

Now why would someone who is interested in housing not get an apartment if an apartment is all that is available?

Because they're not actually interested in housing and only want access to intercross gardening or a workshop.

Because they're not actually interested in housing and only want the prestige factor of owning something others can't get.

The first is something I would love to see SE address by making those things available outside of house ownership. That would lower demand for houses, improving the supply of larger spaces for those with a genuine interest in housing.

The second should never be encouraged or indulged. That's part of what leads to toxicity in gaming.

Please. If you're genuinely interested in housing and aren't lucky enough to win a lottery, at least get an apartment to use. It's a small way to satisfy your interest in housing and demonstrates your interest while waiting to get a house. And keep entering into those lotteries.

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Originally Posted by GeminiReed

Consider the following: Hrothgar is one of the least played races. Is it because bestial races are unpopular or does it have more to do with male only, super limited selection of head gear, having to pay RL money to change the mane? The developers' contempt for the race as seen by the joke hairstyles?

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I would argue that the fact that Viera and Hrothgar were races that were added into the game, in protest by the producers to begin with. that consideration is moot. They're punishment races. nothing more. they'll never be given the same attention to detail that other races are, because we pushed a button with the devs and producers when we were told not to.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

What other means do they have to rely on to figure out what players are interested in?

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Actually asking people what they think. There are whole product management disciplines and practices built around doing that.

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Because they're not actually interested in housing and only want access to intercross gardening or a workshop.

Because they're not actually interested in housing and only want the prestige factor of owning something others can't get.

The first is something I would love to see SE address by making those things available outside of house ownership. That would lower demand for houses, improving the supply of larger spaces for those with a genuine interest in housing.

The second should never be encouraged or indulged. That's part of what leads to toxicity in gaming.

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Hard agree on those.

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Please. If you're genuinely interested in housing and aren't lucky enough to win a lottery, at least get an apartment to use. It's a small way to satisfy your interest in housing and demonstrates your interest while waiting to get a house. And keep entering into those lotteries.

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If somebody has an interest is in decoration I strongly suggest experimenting with an apartment or FC chambers first. I know spending 500k (or 300k) can be daunting but better to burn that to find out how cumbersome XIV's housing UI is than the 4mil a small will set you back.

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Originally Posted by GeminiReed

Actually asking people what they think. There are whole product management disciplines and practices built around doing that.

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There have been studies that show asking people what they think in surveys frequently yield results that contradict what they choose to in practice when given options.

It's still a way to gather information but it's not a more reliable one.

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Originally Posted by GeminiReed

If somebody has an interest is in decoration I strongly suggest experimenting with an apartment or FC chambers first. I know spending 500k (or 300k) can be daunting but better to burn that to find out how cumbersome XIV's housing UI is than the 4mil a small will set you back.

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I'd add that the price tag for an apartment or FC room might feel daunting but really shouldn't be.

Asking other players about ways to make gil if you're struggling can yield some simple but effective ideas that make use of things you probably have but are overlooking like retainer ventures and GC seals.

Apartments are okay, but they are very much lacking.

Honestly, if they would give an option to expand their size (Apartment->Small -> Medium -> Large interiors) for a gil cost, I suspect they would serve as adequate replacement for houses for the majority. Can come up with a different solution for folks who want gardening and such.

That said, I disagree with the notion that apartments running out are only a Balmung problem. It's a problem with the system at large. Do not forget that the same argument was used for houses for a long time "Houses running out are only a Balmung problem!" We tried to warn you all, but nobody on other servers really cared. Now we're warning you again: It's a larger issue and if the game keeps getting large you all are gonna feel it too eventually.

Dear OP, we know apartments are a thing. And they are a very good thing too, they give everyone somewhere to store indoor furnishings where they won't have to worry about the timer or being kicked from our FC and losing everything. They also give us very limited opportunities to decorate. They are a great subsitute for, or addition to, a FC room. But that's all they are, a nice little extra. If you are into housing and decorating they're never going to satisfy in their present form.

There are a lot of things they don't give us:

Outdoor furnishing placement
Indoor space equal or greater than a small house
Full access to all gardening features
Sharing accomodationg with friends or FC
etc. etc.

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Originally Posted by Arzalis

That said, I disagree with the notion that apartments running out are only a Balmung problem. It's a problem with the system at large. Do not forget that the same argument was used for houses for a long time "Houses running out are only a Balmung problem!" We tried to warn you all, but nobody on other servers really cared. Now we're warning you again: It's a larger issue and if the game keeps getting large you all are gonna feel it too eventually.

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Even if you want to believe other worlds are having the same problem with apartments, the truth is they aren't. I've never had a problem helping people find apartments on any world other than Balmung. Most of the time, I find them in the very first apartment building I check even if the player is asking for an apartment in a specific housing district.

But you're correct in saying that's a problem with the greater system design rather than one created by Balmung players. When you have a limited quantity system, it's foolish to think that the demand will be the same on every world when worlds have wildly varying populations and communities form around interest in different content types.

I just want to announce there are still some apartments available in Balmung. They are just VERY hidden making them hard to find because of how little is left.

Not that this is anything to be excited about but thought I'd just announce that. I just got an apt for my last two alts a couple days ago.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

I have enough gil to buy 3 houses, there is no reason why I should be settling for an apartment.

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we have an Entitled Ernie. I have enough gil to buy almost 6 large plots, why should I have to settle for my medium...you take what you can get.If houses were easy they would be far less special and the carrot on the stick would be gone.

don't want or need one have my own house.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

This comes up often and yet no matter how much we try to explain what it's like to grow them, people still complain about the price.

Current lowest prices on the Crystal Data Center:
Thavnairian Onion - 138k (Brynhildr)
Thavnairian Onion seed - 125k (Goblin and Malboro)

Those aren't crack prices. The crack prices were back when BLU first came out and everyone was using BLU to level up their chocobos fast so they were going for 750k-1 million each. Do a typical 2 hour map party and you'll walk away with enough gil to buy 2-4 onions at the current normal market prices depending on dungeon RNG.

As someone who's grown the onions for personal/FC use on occasion in the past, I highly recommend just buying them off the MB. They're really not worth growing unless you're going to do it long term for profit. It doesn't that take long to earn the gil and you don't need them that frequently unless you're going out of your way to hard grind your chocobo XP.

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To be frank, I'd rather waste time trying to garden it myself than scrounge up a bunch of people because every FC I've been in before ended up never doing anything (hence why I formed my own FC to get the house I couldn't win at this stupid lottery). Absolutely no reason to gate this function to one's ability to procure a house. You might see it as "not worth doing", but some of us like these kinds of challenges more than taking down the latest savage raid. Not to mention, the money I do have, I was saving for a house. Now that I got one as a solo+alt FC, it's moot and I'm working on it now. But one shouldn't have to go through all that and I continue to assert the system as-is is stupid refuse to back down from that position because I finally got through the gate.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Also, since you're saying you just hit max rank and can't go farther without the onions, are you aware you can get 2 as quest rewards? The first quest is Landing a Stable Job in Ishgard (the Jeweled Crozier area) (quick and easy, takes less than 5 minutes). The second quest is A Hunter's True Nature in Tailfeather, which is the middle of a side story quest chain that starts with I Wanna Be the Hunter (get from Loupard). Expect an hour to get all the involved quests completed.

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And one would still need to find 8 more onions.

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Originally Posted by ijuakos_xqwzts

To be frank, I'd rather waste time trying to garden it myself than scrounge up a bunch of people because every FC I've been in before ended up never doing anything (hence why I formed my own FC to get the house I couldn't win at this stupid lottery). Absolutely no reason to gate this function to one's ability to procure a house. You might see it as "not worth doing", but some of us like these kinds of challenges more than taking down the latest savage raid. Not to mention, the money I do have, I was saving for a house. Now that I got one as a solo+alt FC, it's moot and I'm working on it now. But one shouldn't have to go through all that and I continue to assert the system as-is is stupid refuse to back down from that position because I finally got through the gate.

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There's a lot of decisions that SE made regarding the housing system that make little sense. It is what it is until SE decides to make changes.

Since you're now able to grow the onions yourself, it would be interesting if you would post here to share your experience of growing them and your opinions about the process once you finally have them.

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Originally Posted by ijuakos_xqwzts

And one would still need to find 8 more onions.

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Yet that is still 2 more ranks for your chocobo to get while you're working on getting the onions for the other 8.

I think the main issue here is that many people want a garden and a workshop.
I think a way around this would be to add a new type of apartment that have a mini (in doors?) garden and add a mini workshop that has most of the recipe's but not all of them.

Or add those things to the island sanctuary. Sadly they already said the gardening will be different there. With other crops.

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Originally Posted by george357

don't want or need one have my own house.

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Lollipops.

Cavities on a stick.

Garbage is a thing, yes.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

There's a lot of decisions that SE made regarding the housing system that make little sense. It is what it is until SE decides to make changes.

Since you're now able to grow the onions yourself, it would be interesting if you would post here to share your experience of growing them and your opinions about the process once you finally have them.


Yet that is still 2 more ranks for your chocobo to get while you're working on getting the onions for the other 8.

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As person who has ran 17 gardens at one time (many alts in fc mates houses) Growing onions is a pain in the butt there is many crossbreeds to get a seed yes.. But also it was a relaxing time watering and replanting each garden(fertilizers needs to be up 30mins take off time is useless) at the start of the day it was fun way to help my fc as well as grow multi things such as vegi minnions/stuffed..carrrots to feed chocobos in stables as well all the items needed to color you bird...

So from personal experice for my self gardening was fun as well as running the work shop and running air ships..then learning submarines when they came out..all options i dont have one cause i dont have a growing pot that can cross breed seeds or awork shop I can use my new fc is just getting started on submains long road to hoe

I've been pushing the limits of my apartments. I need a house.

Tiny House With Back Yard The only yard I can hope to get without hopping to a new data center
Spring Moon Ryokan A Hingan style version of the house and backyard layout
Luxury Loft Fully equipped with amenities

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Originally Posted by Nuggets

If houses were easy they would be far less special and the carrot on the stick would be gone.

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Well, that's the thing with that. Houses shouldn't be prestige content. And quite a stupid form of prestige content at this time, considering the only thing stopping you from getting it after you get the gil isn't difficulty, or skill. It's RNG. Time, and RNG. What's so special about winning a lottery besides laughing at people who didn't? We have the Gold Saucer for that.
Houses are a form of content. Everyone should have access to that content. Imagine if something like an Ultimate was locked behind a lottery, the barrier to entry being something like level and item level. You could be the best player in the world, and if someone so chose, they could enter the lottery and win the chance to try that raid instead of you. They could decide to not even try the raid if they wanted. Wouldn't that make everyone mad? Houses are the only piece of full content that are locked by RNG like this. Apartments are a slice of it, but not a full substitution for it. There are things owning a house offers that apartments, FC chambers, and being a part of an FC with a house don't offer. I've already replied to this thread with a list of features I could think of off the top of my head. Regardless, content should not be locked behind RNG.
I'm going to have an apartment because it's all I can get. But I believe that if I've put in the work to get the gil, I should be able to use my gil on a house. That doesn't make me entitled; that makes me someone who wants to be able to participate properly in house-related content. If you want a house just to look better than other people, you are missing the point. There's other content for that.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

I have enough gil to buy 3 houses, there is no reason why I should be settling for an apartment.

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Agreed. I have enough gil to personally buy 6 larges or 15 mediums at full price. I lost my house due to IRL emergency when a family member passed away. Really wish I could get another now. They don't even have auto-demo on.

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Originally Posted by Pablomaldito

I've been pushing the limits of my apartments. I need a house.

Tiny House With Back Yard The only yard I can hope to get without hopping to a new data center
Spring Moon Ryokan A Hingan style version of the house and backyard layout
Luxury Loft Fully equipped with amenities

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Like you I tried the:
- cyberpunk apartment with a view on a modern city
- classical library / office
- some kind of mysterious and evil place
- a classic oriental mood house

If I could have more than one little apartment to be able to have a dedicated room for experimentation and let the other ones as they are :)