It seems SE sees apartments as Housing

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Originally Posted by FuraMal

This is great. Quit arguing with, trolling and harassing players that leave feedback here.

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Hey pot. Did you know that out of the 9 posts you've made in these forums, 2 had something constructive to say and the rest were made to attack other posters?

Arguments are normal in a discussion forum because posters have differing opinions. This is not an echo chamber. If you're not open to listening to opposing points of view, you're going to have a bad time in forums.

You don't know what trolling or harassment is if you consider our posts those things.

Eraden is generally good with constructive discussion though obviously we don't always agree with our opinions, I just finally got fed up with the "woe is me, I can't live with a mere apartment so I have to go over the top with apartment hate" comments. If she had started with "apartments make me feel claustrophobic" instead of "apartments are bad", I wouldn't have had a problem. The first is constructive feedback, the second isn't. I still would have pointed out that small houses are no better when it comes to being small rooms so getting a small house doesn't really solve her problem.

Shibi is also very good with constructive discussion but occasionally tries to insert some slight sarcasm or humor to lighten things up when discussion starts going south. Try paying attention to all his posts instead of narrowing in on what you can use to get offended.

Now, we would love to hear your constructive feedback as well. Almost everyone here wants to see the housing system improved so everyone is able to enjoy owning a house.

Your thoughts on what is specifically wrong with the housing system and what you feel would improve it would be appreciated.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Hey pot. Did you know that out of the 9 posts you've made in these forums, 2 had something constructive to say and the rest were made to attack other posters?

Arguments are normal in a discussion forum because posters have differing opinions. This is not an echo chamber. If you're not open to listening to opposing points of view, you're going to have a bad time in forums.

You don't know what trolling or harassment is if you consider our posts those things.

Eraden is generally good with constructive discussion though obviously we don't always agree with our opinions, I just finally got fed up with the "woe is me, I can't live with a mere apartment so I have to go over the top with apartment hate" comments. If she had started with "apartments make me feel claustrophobic" instead of "apartments are bad", I wouldn't have had a problem. The first is constructive feedback, the second isn't. I still would have pointed out that small houses are no better when it comes to being small rooms so getting a small house doesn't really solve her problem.

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A few corrections here, Jojoya. You are right that I should have consistently used the word "worse" instead of that one instance of using the word "bad". However, it wasn't until you had started making assumptions about me and my gaming experience that I started to get angry. Yes, I do not care for the claustrophobic experience of tiny rooms. That means that for me, apartments are not suitable for housing because they can't be subdivided into rooms that all avoid that issue (3x3 or higher has a good feel to it). On top of that being in a single box also gives off a claustrophobic feel to me. There is no other room to go to but the one and that feels highly unnatural. Revamping the apartment system would go a long way to solving that issue. Even now you seem to be making assumptions about how I should feel about things like small houses. Even without subdivisions a small house still consists of 2 separate rooms, both of which I have experienced and I do not feel claustrophobic at all in a small house (I can wander from room to room). If they could do something like that with apartments, I would stay with an apartment and never look back. To be honest, I never considered the possibility that you were "trolling" me. I thought of it as more of a misunderstanding. I just wish you would stop making assumptions about me. Asking for clarification on the use of the word "bad" for example, would have prompted me to refine and correct my earlier statement. Instead you went on a series of personal attacks. Ones which I have yet to hear an apology from you for.

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Originally Posted by Eraden

A few corrections here, Jojoya. You are right that I should have consistently used the word "worse" instead of that one instance of using the word "bad". However, it wasn't until you had started making assumptions about me and my gaming experience that I started to get angry. Yes, I do not care for the claustrophobic experience of tiny rooms. That means that for me, apartments are not suitable for housing because they can't be subdivided into rooms that all avoid that issue (3x3 or higher has a good feel to it). On top of that being in a single box also gives off a claustrophobic feel to me. There is no other room to go to but the one and that feels highly unnatural. Revamping the apartment system would go a long way to solving that issue. Even now you seem to be making assumptions about how I should feel about things like small houses. Even without subdivisions a small house still consists of 2 separate rooms, both of which I have experienced and I do not feel claustrophobic at all in a small house (I can wander from room to room). If they could do something like that with apartments, I would stay with an apartment and never look back. To be honest, I never considered the possibility that you were "trolling" me. I thought of it as more of a misunderstanding. I just wish you would stop making assumptions about me. Asking for clarification on the use of the word "bad" for example, would have prompted me to refine and correct my earlier statement. Instead you went on a series of personal attacks. Ones which I have yet to hear an apology from you for.

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I'm sorry I made you angry but as I said I was getting frustrated.

I'm also sorry that you find apartments claustrophobic. I can understand that, camera angles and collision can drive me nuts on occasion but that happens to me in all houses, not just apartments so I don't see it as something specific to apartments.

On the other hand, shortly after you joined the forums you decided to attack me over a comment I made about wondering how the posters who had supported the lottery idea before SE implemented it now felt about the system. You had decided it was directed at you then you doubled down in anger after I pointed out it was never directed you. You kept arguing over how I had myself to blame because you decided I should have used different phrasing. I can't seem to remember you ever apologizing.

If you would not extend me the courtesy of an apology then, why should I be obligated to apologize to you now?

I just want discussion to be constructive when it comes to what is frustrating about the system and what we feel will improve it. Choice of words can be important in keeping discussion constructive.

Can we agree to try to stop attacking each other and focus discussion on the problems with the housing system? We're still going to have differences of opinion but at least for my part any disagreement won't be intended as a personal attack on you or anyone else. It's just going to be a disagreement.

Would someone mind passing the popcorn? I was enjoying the slight sarcasms and acerbities the last few days. We could use a chuckle because housing is frustrating to so many. One of my pet peeves is SE's consistant housing goodie drops for cheevos, seasonal quests and new shinies that can be crafted. Don't dangle those carrots in front of people SE if you cannot deliver the place to enjoy them.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

I'm sorry I made you angry but as I said I was getting frustrated.

I'm also sorry that you find apartments claustrophobic. I can understand that, camera angles and collision can drive me nuts on occasion but that happens to me in all houses, not just apartments so I don't see it as something specific to apartments.

On the other hand, shortly after you joined the forums you decided to attack me over a comment I made about wondering how the posters who had supported the lottery idea before SE implemented it now felt about the system. You had decided it was directed at you then you doubled down in anger after I pointed out it was never directed you. You kept arguing over how I had myself to blame because you decided I should have used different phrasing. I can't seem to remember you ever apologizing.

If you would not extend me the courtesy of an apology then, why should I be obligated to apologize to you now?

I just want discussion to be constructive when it comes to what is frustrating about the system and what we feel will improve it. Choice of words can be important in keeping discussion constructive.

Can we agree to try to stop attacking each other and focus discussion on the problems with the housing system? We're still going to have differences of opinion but at least for my part any disagreement won't be intended as a personal attack on you or anyone else. It's just going to be a disagreement.

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In defense of that earlier discussion, your ORIGINAL post was indeed vague enough to suggest that ALL proponents for the lottery were included. You DID make appropriate adjustments afterwards and I DO understand that the original statement was not meant to refer to all proponents for the Lottery. Still, that is a far cry different from implying that I was lying about my views on the living space within small houses. That IS a personal attack. However, I am willing to let bygones be bygones. There are bigger fish to fry here and our focus should be on getting SE to revamp the housing system and that would include both houses and apartments.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Hey pot. Did you know that out of the 9 posts you've made in these forums, 2 had something constructive to say and the rest were made to attack other posters?

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When you try to leave feedback in game, you're directed here. At least that was my case. People leave the feedback, then it's pounced on by folks that claim to agree but lecture the poster and try to cheapen their opinion.

About a year ago I started reading these forums. Just recently started posting because I think housing needs improvement, and also because in this community people (who post a LOT) are using passive aggression to talk down to people for leaving feedback.

^ ^ This post is a perfect example of passive aggression. Lecturing bordering on insulting followed with "we would love to hear your constructive feedback". I have no desire to meet your definition of "constructive feedback" given the tone of your posts.

If we all agree housing needs to be improved, stop jumping all over people that ask that it be improved.

I for one would love to hear constructive feedback from plenty of posters.

Alas, sometimes people think they're being constructive when they're just being reactionary. Which leads to roundabout arguments.

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Originally Posted by MilkieTea

I for one would love to hear constructive feedback from plenty of posters.

Alas, sometimes people think they're being constructive when they're just being reactionary. Which leads to roundabout arguments.

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Well said. So back to the OP -

We really don't know what SE sees as housing, because they don't communicate very well with this community. Housing forums has a sticky post from Yoshi...from 2014?!?

They acknowledged lack of supply a really long time ago and don't seem to care. Maybe they do care, but communicate poorly. Whichever.

This is an amazing game for a lot of reasons. Giving players access to a reasonable amount of personal space similar to other MMOs would make it even better.

Forgive the pessimism; I played EQ2 for some years. In my opinion the (instanced!) housing there is A+. Subjecting players to placard camping, then a slim-chance lottery to access more than a very small room is not acceptable.

In short if you think apartments lacks features... then it wont help you with a house any size either, you can really make anice looking apartment, and if struggling that you would struggleway more with a house... get an apartment, it will cover all your needs, get an open minded FC, if you need to do gardening now and then and borrow the garden plots for a while.

I had a friend that had no house and wanted to grow some stuff. I allowed them access to just the gardening section of my personal medium house for a while untill they were finished. Worked out well for them, they had a place to light and run around in and do their gardening without buying the space.