No more timers on Dungeons/Raids for new content please!

I personally would rather they get rid of the instanced content, and I sure there are a lot of others that feel the same way. I would prefer a world thats open and only use instances for bcnm, dynamis and real endgame content. This trend of dungeons being all instanced is getting old. All the current dungeon are way too short and at this point are getting boring (just like the NEW hamlets).

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Originally Posted by Maxthunder

I personally would rather they get rid of the instanced content, and I sure there are a lot of others that feel the same way. I would prefer a world thats open and only use instances for bcnm, dynamis and real endgame content. This trend of dungeons being all instanced is getting old. All the current dungeon are way too short and at this point are getting boring (just like the NEW hamlets).

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That's more because:

1) Speed runs burn people out
2) Speed runs annoy people who don't like playing the golden child jobs that are "required" by a good number of groups
3) Dungeon design is very uninspired between lack of bosses and the fact mobs inside are leashed (believe me, if you were forced to actually fight the trash mobs in any of the instances they wouldn't seem so short to you)
4) There's very few dungeons, even for a game with a lv50 cap

#3 is really the big one, with #4 as a close runner up. There's not enough dungeons to actually support the level climb. #1 and #2 are also factors behind boredom. Especially when you're going up against a 0.000000001% drop rate on anything worthwhile.

I mean, for example, AV would probably be played differently if it had a wing with just Garlean forces, and the timed objective would be finding the captive the Knights of Ishgard refer to in the "What Glitters Always Isn't Gold" quest. You zone in and have, say, 30 minutes to find the captive. If you take too long the captive is killed and you miss out on one boss. Have a total of five bosses. Include a trap of sorts that locks you in the room with the gold gas that does damage over time to you until you kill a boss in there. Then coincounter. Then a garlean officer of some sort. Then the guy that's there solely to execute the captive. And then Miser's mistress. Each with their own loot table to encourage the full clear.

Between trash fights and running around (specially if you're going for the timed objective, which would not be the end of the instance), AV could then take longer than the 20-25 minutes it currently takes for the speed run. Could even add zone drops from the trash mobs as a bit of a bonus.

Then it'd be a matter of balancing the mobs and of course, balancing the classes so that most if not all group comps can do the timed objective once they know the dungeon and get a little practice with it.

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I would prefer a world thats open and only use instances for bcnm, dynamis and real endgame content.

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In other words, two things that aren't part of this game and one thing that already is. Okay....

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Originally Posted by Duelle

2) Speed runs annoy people who don't like playing the golden child jobs that are "required" by a good number of groups.

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Cough *BLM* Cough

I think my ls got a lil annoyed at me cause I literally sold all my blm accessories, put my af in storage and weapon on a retainer and said no more blm for me. I dont think I would hate the job with the passion I do if I weren't forced to play it so much.

Thumbs up and bump.

Its the behest ones that annoy me.

Short enough that you can do one after doing the last one, but repeatedly talking to the NPC and being told to wait for the timer when its on 1 or even 0 minutes remaining is just annoying, especially when the time to accept is so short to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

I would not want to play a dungeon where you had to kill every single monster to get a reward.

Trash mobs are distractions, mooks designed to wear you down and slow you down. Any way you can avoid them, you're supposed to. If you want to kill them, just kill them outside on your own time. It's not like there aren't any ghosts anywhere else. Either that or take a few like-minded friends to farm the trash mobs. There's no thought or strategy in killing every weak grunt on the way to the back of the big boss's hideout.

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Unless the strategy in order to get a boss to appear is to wipe out x amount of 'trash mobs' in y area of the dungeon (and before people start, no it doesn't promote class/job stacking to do this.)

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Originally Posted by Valmonte

So far as i know, all drops in this game serve a purpose for crafting. take the ghosts in Darkhold for instance they drop alot of velveteen cloth, right now i could use all of that i can get. however Speed runs get in the way of killing every mob.

I'd much rather be rewarded For clearing a dungeon(All mobs defeated, All Chests Found=Cleared) than for blazing through it

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I just wanted to say....

These mobs don't exist outside of the dungeon?????<_>

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Originally Posted by Kafeen

Its the behest ones that annoy me.

Short enough that you can do one after doing the last one, but repeatedly talking to the NPC and being told to wait for the timer when its on 1 or even 0 minutes remaining is just annoying, especially when the time to accept is so short to begin with.

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Heh heh forgot about those. They really shouldn't have added a timer on that one.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Unless the strategy in order to get a boss to appear is to wipe out x amount of 'trash mobs' in y area of the dungeon (and before people start, no it doesn't promote class/job stacking to do this.)

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You can also remove the leash script on mobs inside dungeons. This way, instead of aggroing them and running until they return to their territory, they will follow you throughout the whole dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Um... you aren't making a lick of sense.

You don't get loot form trash mobs (other than the junk you don't want that the same monster would drop anywhere else). Therefore, you have no reason to wish to kill them in order to get loot they don't have.

/me scratches head at quoted post

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OK, I'll break it down.

1, I want to fight all the trash mobs just for the sake of fighting them

2, to get the darklight from the speed run chest I can't fight all the trash mobs

simple enough?

The timer I dont mind, but the speed running I sure do. Its just not enjoyable at all.

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Originally Posted by Volsung

The timer I dont mind, but the speed running I sure do. Its just not enjoyable at all.

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i feel exactly this way. i don't mind the timer, but i feel for a full clear there should be optional things you need to complete for the additional loot, but it just needs to be done within the 60 minute time limit. i'm not a fan of the speed runs even though i have all of them. i feel there needs to be more complexity to the dungeons.

i don't mind some of the dungeons having the 25 minute speed runs, but i don't like that they are all done that way.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

i don't mind some of the dungeons having the 25 minute speed runs, but i don't like that they are all done that way.

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Have to agree with that. Even though i see how speed run can be fun and challenging, it shouldnt be a requirement in every single instance. Could make some instances with different goals like clearing all mobs and such, so a player can enjoy different types of feelings instead of just rushing through every single instance.

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Originally Posted by VytasBismarck

Have to agree with that. Even though i see how speed run can be fun and challenging, it shouldnt be a requirement in every single instance. Could make some instances with different goals like clearing all mobs and such, so a player can enjoy different types of feelings instead of just rushing through every single instance.

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exactly. give us some dungeons where you have speed runs, some where there's additional passages and bosses that are not required for completion and gives additional loot, some with multiple paths you can take to complete(via toto rak type dungeons) and different bosses depending on the route, some that require all mobs cleared for full clear. i just don't want it to get boring because every dungeon is the exact same setup to completion.

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Originally Posted by Volsung

The timer I dont mind, but the speed running I sure do. Its just not enjoyable at all.

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Personally , this sums it all up. We want to enjoy the experiance, and even tho I can apreciate the attempt to add a "hard mode" soo to speak, its realy not hard its just fast and in a sense more like farming the dungeon for gear. With added dificulty increase drop rates even if just slightly then add gear that you can not get with lower dificulty setting. maybe that sounds too simple to me, but not sure why this wasnt the case to begin with.

Truthfully speaking tho, all dungeons eventually end up like Dark Hold. You will be able to take a group of half experiance and half new players through and get the speed run every time, just takes getting used to the strat for the speed run, once 4 or more people in your party have it down to a science (wich simply takes spaming the event/dungeon) then you have a dungeon you no longer do for fun, but more for farming.

I can understand as to why SE makes the drop rates soo low, but rather then get us hung up on the same content for months due to low drop rates, All they have to do is implament player based content like pvp , somthing in wich we as players provide the drive to continue doing said content and not simply what we can get out of it. Anytime Items or gear are used to provide the motivation for players to do events , its only a matter of time before that content is dried up and dev teams are forced to develope more. Nothing wrong with having alot of content, but for a beta game, where most of the devs are focusing on 2.0 , player based content should be the most obvious answer for keeping the subscribers at this point in time satisfied long enough to release the actuall game.

But , back on topic, timers are fine, they add a bit of a challange, however speed runs dont realy add dificulty just forces players to find ways to exploit the games faults. Wich kinda helps the dev teams pin point fault , sure, but ultimatly makes for a lously substitute for actual high dificulty content.

Speed runs should be an achievement thing only, maybe you could even have a top time listing in your achievements come 2.0 or something if the system could support something like that.

Speed runs are not restrictive, and you can use any job setup (that results in a balanced party for the encounters) to achieve them. That isn't the issue. The issue is that they only add to the chore of grinding dungeons without really adding extra challenge or enjoyment long term.

It can be fun to see how fast your group can do it, and so an achievement might be a nice way to show that accomplishment. But it gets old when you are racing the clock every time as you spam the dungeon over and over again.

It wouldn't be as big of a deal if we had more variety in endgame content, but even then I'd hope "time attack" would be limited to only a select few pieces of content rather than the norm. While more inventive chest pop conditions that didn't rely just on efficiency alone, could be used to introduce challenge on most things.

Personally though I'd rather they did away with "time attack" all together in dungeons, and instead let us get our DPS race on with HNM who had short rage timers.

I think alot of you guys are really over thinking my thread. The point is very simple. No more timers for new content because we seriously need a break from raids/dungeons/events in which everything runs on a stop watch.