Retainer Level?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

Same here Zezlar. Gathering was my bread and butter. My poor Hiir is going to need some other way to make gil if the market is flooded by retainer gathered items.

Can my retainer run CC/AV please? That was a chore to me. In fact, any dungeon running that has to be done more than 20 times a week is classified as "chore"

---

how about wait and see what they can really do. I have the feeling they can't really gather that much HQ and that where the bread and butter is.

Bots are bad. :(

Wow, People are so negative. I have nothing against gathering. In fact I love it and one of my highest jobs was BOT. The point is here the Dev team is trying to appeal to as many people as possible. Not all of which like gathering. So while all the gatherers are out shopping trees and picking rocks, those people that would rather kill mobs and do quests can send their NPC out and do it for them. In the end it is your choice what you want to do. SE is just giving us as many choices as possible to make the game that much more enjoyable for everyone. Honestly I loved the Alpha gathering and hope not much changes about it. Keep up the great work SE you're on the right track(chocobo track, hint hint ;) ).

Here's a choice, buy my stuff! Always cheapest price! :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

Here's a choice, buy my stuff! Always cheapest price! :D

---

You know someone is going to undercut you by 1 gil >.>

I see what you all mean though, if RMT's or other gets tons of characters with tons of retainers then it will become a problem for sure. If they add say more features to this retainers chores such as tending your baby Chocobo's and stuff then you have to make a choice of getting a better Chocobo or just have them go gather some crappy NQ items over 2 hour period while you could of gathered 20 times more in 30minutes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

Bots are bad. :(

---

Really? because last time i check everyone before ffxiv final day people was using bots to get the most darksteel ore/logs. To make enough money to A: Be rich when 2.0 come B: Get every Relic. Seeing how there was not that many linkshell winning ifrit ex i would say people was getting rich.

So i don't see a issue on a retainer getting item for you when i bet they wont every get enough HQ to make you rich just on that. I'm sure they have a time limit and how much they can get before they go back home so i see pointless. SE would never make a system where people can get rich off remember they have to worry about RMT doing it also,.

So there really noting to worry about also you saying you sell them the cheapest mean you be making it worth on you and everyone right? How many time did people lose many because they undercut eachother so much to the point that you could sell the item for more on a NPC then on the AH? I myself made 10+mil selling item to NPC vs the market because guess what? people undercut so much you could buy everything on the market and sell it for profit to a npc lol.

I would rather the retainer be used to do something unique, rather than just do what players can do, but crappier. Maybe be able to send them out, and they will occasionally come back with a rare doodad to be used in a synth, or some consumable with a unique effect, or a pretty rock you can put on a table in your new house. Someone was talking about letting them take care of your chocobo, or have them take care of your house, or go fight in the Colosseum for amusement and advertising purposes (big logo on the back for cheap darksteel! best prices in town!). Something players cant do on their own.

If they go out and come back with 10 iron ore, the crafter will be disappointed because its not enough to be worthwhile, and they will still have to buy more, the gatherer will be disappointed because they could have just gone and gotten way more on their own, and the fighter wont care and will just sell them anyway.

I'd rather not have retainers getting involved in activities like gathering and crafting. I played Star Wars: The Old Republic while it was beta and again briefly after it was released via a trial version.

In that game you had companions who could obtain crew skills which could be used to gather and craft items, I was constantly sending these companions out to just get junk for me to sell, and the crafting and gathering of the game were really cheapened by the lack of any hands on approach that we have in FFXIV. I liked crafting and gathering in 1.0, and I loved it even more in ARR's alpha.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Celia

I'd rather not have retainers getting involved in activities like gathering and crafting. I played Star Wars: The Old Republic while it was beta and again briefly after it was released via a trial version.

In that game you had companions who could obtain crew skills which could be used to gather and craft items, I was constantly sending these companions out to just get junk for me to sell, and the crafting and gathering of the game were really cheapened by the lack of any hands on approach that we have in FFXIV. I liked crafting and gathering in 1.0, and I loved it even more in ARR's alpha.

---

SE is not dumb they would fix any issue i don't know why people so worry. SE is known to release something and it just not as good as you think it was. This Retainer system to get item i bet they just gather junk for the most part and very few good item. It be good for casual players to have small gil to get by but for rest of the player base they be doing the work themself and using the retainer to make junk cash to have when needed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zenaku

SE is not dumb they would fix any issue i don't know why people so worry. SE is known to release something and it just not as good as you think it was. This Retainer system to get item i bet they just gather junk for the most part and very few good item. It be good for casual players to have small gil to get by but for rest of the player base they be doing the work themself and using the retainer to make junk cash to have when needed.

---

I'm sure it depends on how well they gather, but when we're simply told "gathering" it leaves a lot of guess work and a lot up to the imagination in terms of how useful, good, or bad it will be. Better to discuss the way we feel it shouldn't work so that the developers get that feedback than to wait until they've put a lot of very hard work into an aspect of retainers that ends up being disagreeable because there wasn't any cautionary examples for the developers to be wary of.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Celia

I'm sure it depends on how well they gather, but when we're simply told "gathering" it leaves a lot of guess work and a lot up to the imagination in terms of how useful, good, or bad it will be. Better to discuss the way we feel it shouldn't work so that the developers get that feedback than to wait until they've put a lot of very hard work into an aspect of retainers that ends up being disagreeable because there wasn't any cautionary examples for the developers to be wary of.

---

will remember we can pick what we want to gather i have a feeling the NPC would just pick at random. So one night you could end up with nice item and then for 2 weeks it's just feathers and junk.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zenaku

will remember we can pick what we want to gather i have a feeling the NPC would just pick at random. So one night you could end up with nice item and then for 2 weeks it's just feathers and junk.

---

Sounds like scratchy card lotteries, first Gold Saucer and now that, I think Yoshi-P is trying to turn us into gamblers.;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Celia

Sounds like scratchy card lotteries, first Gold Saucer and now that, I think Yoshi-P is trying to turn us into gamblers.;)

---

Will that a fair system it make it so RMT can't use it to make loads of money. I think what SE trying to do with this Retainer system is allow casual players to make some money on the side just enough to keep them playing. Like i said on my other post us players who play longer we going to use it just so we have extra gil to buy food for our endgame runs and something else cheap we need for the day.

its better than just having a retainer stand idle all week in a market with an over priced water crystal for 9999999 gil.

I'm looking forward to see how this works. Also I'd rather SE change all retainers into moogles.

I take exception to your assertion that just because people botted in 1.0 it's ok to do it. I made a great deal of gil in 1.0 by gathering things myself and yes I had to contend with botters

It was my hope that they would crack down on bots not give everyone license to use them.

They should make retainers do something else besides bot gather.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zenaku

Will that a fair system it make it so RMT can't use it to make loads of money. I think what SE trying to do with this Retainer system is allow casual players to make some money on the side just enough to keep them playing. Like i said on my other post us players who play longer we going to use it just so we have extra gil to buy food for our endgame runs and something else cheap we need for the day.

---

But I mean how much gil are they likely to net from it? I mean feathers and junk, most raw materials in the game, sell for really low prices, seems like guildleves would be more worth their time. Like sure you can put a stack of Cock Feathers on the market for 100 gil per, but it doesn't mean people will buy it.

I think people are going overboard here. This is what my guess is they have in store for it:

A retainer can be sent to a certain area within a level range. As their level goes up they can gather in more higher places. For example, let's say they have 5 levels: Lv. 1 lets then gather from spawn points in level 1-10 areas, Lv. 2 is 11-20 areas, Lv. 3 is 21-30, and so forth up to Lv. 5. You can choose a few items you want them to specifically look for and as their level increases so does their chances of successfully finding that item. They'll pick up random junk along the way as well of course. Now the catch of this is while a retainer is out gathering their storage is inaccessible to the player and they cannot run a bazaar. The more dangerous/difficult the area you send them the longer they'll be away.

So overall it really evens out, you can have your retainer gather items for you but while they're off doing this you lose the rest of their functions. It's either set up shop and have access to your storage, or send them off foraging. Full/Part time gatherers will still have a job because after all, people will probably only send one retainer out at a time to gather and it's unlikely they'll come up with a big haul anyway. This might just be for potential areas where you've got nothing to sell and might want or need a specific item but nobody's selling it. Send your retainer off to go fetch it for you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LlenCoram

Oh... yay... SE really hates gathering don't they? From the videos they've shown, it's pretty clear the new gathering system wasn't designed for gatherers. Now gathering is "a chore" that you can get an NPC to do for you?

Way to keep telling us to do something else. Here's a shocker, some of us actually enjoy gathering. I'm really afraid of what you guys did to fishing...

---

Going to have to agree with you on this one. I LOVED 1.0's gathering system. Now it's just click on what you want and there you have it. That's lame and way too uninteresting. I understand you're trying to cater to casuals, but jesus.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

I take exception to your assertion that just because people botted in 1.0 it's ok to do it. I made a great deal of gil in 1.0 by gathering things myself and yes I had to contend with botters

It was my hope that they would crack down on bots not give everyone license to use them.

They should make retainers do something else besides bot gather.

---

I don't see a issue with a retainer farming items that you wont much any money one. Once again i guess you not reading or understand HQ are what sell a Retainer i bet you anything would farm random item the chance of you getting enough HQ to make profit in a month with a retainer would be low. So stop trying to mess thing up for casual players with this system they can make gil to pay for things they need. Hell it be a great system for myself i be farming HQ item while my npc farm w/e and make me junk gil to buy Food and other item i need for raid nights.

@Celia You could always sell it for a npc and remember there a limit how many leves you could do a night. Casual players would take any gil let's say the NPC bring a income of 50k a month that more then they would have to start with. Casual players only play what 2-4 hours 2-7 days a week?

I don't see the harm it this system making low amount of gil for everyone. I think SE just adding everything they could from other games to make every type of player happy. i could be wrong with all this but i'm sure SE make it good enough that it would mess anything up to the point that RMT can shit load of money off it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mihana

I think people are going overboard here. This is what my guess is they have in store for it:

A retainer can be sent to a certain area within a level range. As their level goes up they can gather in more higher places. For example, let's say they have 5 levels: Lv. 1 lets then gather from spawn points in level 1-10 areas, Lv. 2 is 11-20 areas, Lv. 3 is 21-30, and so forth up to Lv. 5. You can choose a few items you want them to specifically look for and as their level increases so does their chances of successfully finding that item. They'll pick up random junk along the way as well of course. Now the catch of this is while a retainer is out gathering their storage is inaccessible to the player and they cannot run a bazaar. The more dangerous/difficult the area you send them the longer they'll be away.

So overall it really evens out, you can have your retainer gather items for you but while they're off doing this you lose the rest of their functions. It's either set up shop and have access to your storage, or send them off foraging. Full/Part time gatherers will still have a job because after all, people will probably only send one retainer out at a time to gather and it's unlikely they'll come up with a big haul anyway. This might just be for potential areas where you've got nothing to sell and might want or need a specific item but nobody's selling it. Send your retainer off to go fetch it for you.

---

yep i forgot the part they be useless to they come back lol. So if you send both out to get item you can't sell anything for hours/days. Which end up even out so your right also i don't think you can pick the item i think they may just be random stuff that be more fair and they wont get much HQ.

Mihana whats to stop people from multipluing their retainers and mailing the goods to their main account to sell?

Retainer gathered items should be untradeable

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mihana

I think people are going overboard here. This is what my guess is they have in store for it:

A retainer can be sent to a certain area within a level range. As their level goes up they can gather in more higher places. For example, let's say they have 5 levels: Lv. 1 lets then gather from spawn points in level 1-10 areas, Lv. 2 is 11-20 areas, Lv. 3 is 21-30, and so forth up to Lv. 5. You can choose a few items you want them to specifically look for and as their level increases so does their chances of successfully finding that item. They'll pick up random junk along the way as well of course. Now the catch of this is while a retainer is out gathering their storage is inaccessible to the player and they cannot run a bazaar. The more dangerous/difficult the area you send them the longer they'll be away.

So overall it really evens out, you can have your retainer gather items for you but while they're off doing this you lose the rest of their functions. It's either set up shop and have access to your storage, or send them off foraging. Full/Part time gatherers will still have a job because after all, people will probably only send one retainer out at a time to gather and it's unlikely they'll come up with a big haul anyway. This might just be for potential areas where you've got nothing to sell and might want or need a specific item but nobody's selling it. Send your retainer off to go fetch it for you.

---

People are allowed to have two retainers though, and since the amount of items that retainers can have on their bazaar is being increased in ARR it's not quite as necessary as it was in 1.0 to have both retainers selling your items if you were a frequent Market Ward user. Now they can have one selling just as well in ARR as two did in 1.0 and one gathering items to be sold. It's not really a sacrifice provided that we still have our two retainers like we did in 1.0.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rukkirii

I have a small update regarding retainer levels to share with you. :cool:

Based on the feedback we collected in the past, the dev. team is looking to implement different features for your retainer as they level up. For example, we are looking into allowing retainers to perform chores, such as gathering.

As soon as we receive detailed information on leveling up your friendly caretakers and the tasks that they will be able to perform at certain levels, we will be sure to let you know!

---

Aw yeah, my kawaii waifus will now grind for me!

To the people saying that they will just come back with random garbage... what good does that do anybody? If you sent your retainer out for the night, and came back in the morning and all that had happened was you are now -5 inventory slots until you npc the trash, would you send them out again? Just gathering what people gather anyway runs into the problems of either it is pointless, or it is too good. Either way, people complain, hell even if they strike a good balance people will complain.

So why not try and make the system more interesting by having them do something players don't already do better.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rylock

To the people saying that they will just come back with random garbage... what good does that do anybody? If you sent your retainer out for the night, and came back in the morning and all that had happened was you are now -5 inventory slots until you npc the trash, would you send them out again? Just gathering what people gather anyway runs into the problems of either it is pointless, or it is too good. Either way, people complain, hell even if they strike a good balance people will complain.

So why not try and make the system more interesting by having them do something players don't already do better.

---

because it would help out RMT and the market would be full of stuff and everyone would undercut and not one would make any gil. It should be where it come with junk and sometime good stuff but not always that the point. The retainer getting item should just help you get enough gil to get you by not make you rich.

Personally when i see this, I don't think of my retainer going out into the open world to gather stuff from gathering points.
I think it would apply only to the garden you have outside of your house (stuff you grow yourself in your backyard).
Anything else imo would be kinda silly.

Wow, that's pretty cool! I have to laugh at any "easy mode" comment. Nothing about gathering was hard, it was rather time consuming however. If you liked gathering, you can still gather yourself to see much higher returns for any time invested. This seems like a nice alternative for people that don't like gathering but do like to craft.

I didn't see anyone arguing that retainers selling items while the player was offline was breaking anything, I mean, without an auction house wouldn't it be less "easy mode" (lol) for the player to have to sell the items themselves and be logged in with their bazaar open? I don't see why people are so afraid of change, and it is getting rather annoying to see people cherry picking which items seem to magically break the game/their immersion.

It's a game, have fun with it! Don't like a feature? Don't use the feature!

This reminds me of SWTOR in a way since you could always send crew mates to get stuff that would have been to time consuming compared to overall net worth. Now FFXIV gathering nodes are much more centralized and respawn at a faster rate but the system is still handy for those that need iron ore but don't feel like hoofing it out to La Noscea when they are waiting at the Garuda/Ifrit Node.

Also about the market being flooded maybe it was a balmung thing but all basic materials were always flooded. If anything even got below 20 pieces a price hike followed by a under cut flood would occur. So I doubt this will effect the economy anymore then people being there normal money grubbing selves. But sending out a retaining to gather might be counter intuitive if profit is your gain because if they are doing "chores" they might not be able to host AH spots for your stuff to sell.

The two comments above say exactly what worries me the most. "They can do this if you don't feel like it" or "it gets done if you're busy." I'm a gatherer, I like gathering, and I like supplying what I gather to other people. That's what makes an economy work. With this SE sanctioned botting, it turns gathering from an actual profession to "just some nuisance. Let the bot handle it."

I'm usually too busy gathering to ever bother with crafting. Therefore, my retainer should craft for me.

So far exactly what I predicted would happen is happening. All the people who've said they like this proposed system, or the new gathering system, are generally people who enjoy crafting or fighting far more than gathering, if at all. Unfortunately these are the people I feel the new gathering system is aimed at, instead of people who actually enjoy gathering. Please try to put yourself in our shoes. If tomorrow they released a brand new combat system - one where you run up to a mob, click it, and a dice roll decids whether you kill it or not - as a way to "streamline combat because who cares about that, crafting is far more important," the people who like combat the most in the game would be up in arms. It's a similar thing here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zenaku

because it would help out RMT and the market would be full of stuff and everyone would undercut and not one would make any gil. It should be where it come with junk and sometime good stuff but not always that the point. The retainer getting item should just help you get enough gil to get you by not make you rich.

---

That doesnt make any sense at all...

I think grinding endlessly in dungeons for darklight gear was a chore. If I can have my retainer do that for me then I am ok with this. If not, then I strongly object to having a "retainer bot" gathering for those who can't be bothered with it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

Mihana whats to stop people from multipluing their retainers and mailing the goods to their main account to sell?

Retainer gathered items should be untradeable

---

If i remember, a few months ago, N.Yoshida said retainers won't be connected to character but they will be connected to the account.

FFXIV 1.0 >> 2 retainers/character
FFXIV 2.0 >> maybe 1 or 2 retainers/account.

It will be necessary to wait for an official answer to confirm

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rukkirii

I have a small update regarding retainer levels to share with you. :cool:

Based on the feedback we collected in the past, the dev. team is looking to implement different features for your retainer as they level up. For example, we are looking into allowing retainers to perform chores, such as gathering.

As soon as we receive detailed information on leveling up your friendly caretakers and the tasks that they will be able to perform at certain levels, we will be sure to let you know!

---

I like the idea.

Put some restrictions on it, done.

Yoshi P and most of the dev team are MMO players themselves,
I would bet they know about the risks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rukkirii

I have a small update regarding retainer levels to share with you. :cool:

Based on the feedback we collected in the past, the dev. team is looking to implement different features for your retainer as they level up. For example, we are looking into allowing retainers to perform chores, such as gathering.

---

Er, okay, that'll please the botters and RMT in general, with this feature they wouldn't need to actually use their bots.

/shakeshead

Why do morons automatically jump to the worst conclusions:

"Retainers can gather for us? Oh no, that means gathering is doomed forever!! /FML"

Um...

1) I doubt their gathering will be so powerful as to make it worthwhile to rely on it for very much.
2) If you actually enjoy gathering... then, well, you know... GO AND GATHER YOURSELF AND DON'T USE RETAINER FOR IT.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pandemonium

Why do morons automatically jump to the worst conclusions:

"Retainers can gather for us? Oh no, that means gathering is doomed forever!! /FML"

Um...

1) I doubt their gathering will be so powerful as to make it worthwhile to rely on it for very much.
2) If you actually enjoy gathering... then, well, you know... GO AND GATHER YOURSELF AND DON'T USE RETAINER FOR IT.

---

Exactly. So much overreaction as usual in this forum.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LlenCoram

Oh... yay... SE really hates gathering don't they? From the videos they've shown, it's pretty clear the new gathering system wasn't designed for gatherers. Now gathering is "a chore" that you can get an NPC to do for you?

Way to keep telling us to do something else. Here's a shocker, some of us actually enjoy gathering. I'm really afraid of what you guys did to fishing...

---

Quit over reacting. This doesn't stop you from gathering does it? It will just provide you a bit of extra help and you could always you know just not ask your retainer to do it. I imagine retainers will be able to do other chores as well such as crafting and repairs maybe. This is not Square Enix saying gathering sucks go do something else.

I was sure I saw mentioned in Reinhart's thread something about retainer gathering and the inference that it was more shard related, as crafting was supposed to be more shard intensive in 2.0. I can't find the post now and it may have been rampant speculation anyway. However as someone who broke literally thousands of fish for shards, I can see this as an acceptable 'bot gathering activity' for a retainer as the impact on the economy is a minimal one and as shards are in themselves now an item that can be targeted via gathering.

I may be wrong and some people may have made their gil in 1.0 by breaking the level 1 fish in LL and reselling, but from my experience shards were passed from non crafting friends onto crafters more than ward selling. Regardless, there was already in place a method of obtaining shards at a very low cost per unit (as low as 1-2gil) so I don't see this as a massive impact on the economy. Like most people have posted on here, I wouldn't be supportive of a 'gather x number of y item' system for retainers even if it was limited to NQ only.

Gathering is only one possibility for a leveled skill however and I'm sure SE are thinking of multiple other options. Shopping for example was mentioned in Triary's post on this subject.

Again I'm sure SE has their own ideas on how to implement this but as an example you use a UI similar to the buy function used to be in the player bazaar. You chose an item, specify NQ or HQ, a volume required and a max unit price. The retainer then searches the wards at preprogrammed intervals, 1 hour 4 hours or whatever SE thinks reasonable and purchases items that match your criteria in the wards at that time.

Again this would be a basic thing and I'm sure your retainer wouldn't be able to search for materia melded items as the variability would be too annoying to program (I assume with my lack of knowledge), but this is another example of a basic task that could be entrusted to your retainer.

Another option would be at certain levels you could summon your retainer to you at aetheryte nodes to exchange gear items between your inventory and theirs, which I'm sure some people on gathering binges would find useful.

As was posted previously, for balance reasons if your retainer was assigned to any of these various tasks they would not be able to hold open a bazaar for you in the market wards as they would be moving elsewhere. This would also help the overcrowding issues people experienced in 1.0 where the Ul'dah wards were almost permanently full. Again this may be addressed in other ways already, but it would help create a faster turnover.

That is just my speculation on some of the possible features anyway. Perhaps people have other ideas on what features they might like to see? I haven't included the ability to summon them in combat like FFXI's Adventure Fellows as I personally believe that role will be fulfilled more by our chocobo's in 2.0 as they have tank, DD and healer options for being summoned in battle.

We have not received any details on what retainers will be gathering. The shard comment was made by a user.

I think bot seaching the wards is bad but if we could use our retainers to search the wards for prices while I am in the field that eould be nice.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Akira_Tenshi

Quit over reacting. This doesn't stop you from gathering does it? It will just provide you a bit of extra help and you could always you know just not ask your retainer to do it. I imagine retainers will be able to do other chores as well such as crafting and repairs maybe. This is not Square Enix saying gathering sucks go do something else.

---

It's not just the retainers being able to perform this "chore" of ours, it's everything we know of the new gathering mechanics. It's not a question of just choosing whether or not to use my retainer, it's that the entire system seems like it's being dumbed down and turned into an afterthought, something you don't want to do but have to do sometimes.

Again, I really hope I'm wrong, and when the beta hits and I finally get my hands on fishing, if it turns out to be the best thing ever you can be sure I'll be the first screaming from the (NDA approved) rooftops abput how good it is. For now, it really feels like they're turning gathering into an afterthought. This recent retainer thing is just another little piece of evidence for it.