They are catering ultimates to casuals like they did with Elden Ring.

some people just dont like to be happy I guess.

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Originally Posted by Darthgummibear

How to tell everyone you've never played elden ring without saying you've never played elden ring.

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How to tell people you don't play video games anymore without saying you don't play video games anymore.

Not to you Angry I'm just adding to your qoute as I agree.. but I yeah. I stated my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

You're describing a warp point, not a checkpoint.

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They're effectively the same thing in the particular situation I described. The only difference being if it was a warp point you would actually have to do something, like walk into it, click it.

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Originally Posted by Nethereal

They're effectively the same thing in the particular situation I described. The only difference being if it was a warp point you would actually have to do something, like walk into it, click it.

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A warp point moves you from A to B as you move through a dungeon. A checkpoint saves your progress at a certain stage so you don't have to start over if you fail. They are not the same thing.

Intial fight>thoridan>Estinien no check point between thoridan and Esty. No one should be saying how difficult a fight is until after they have cleared it themselves.

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Originally Posted by kizumiayamame

This patch is the biggest slap in the face in all of ffxiv. Ultimate raids are supposed to be the highest expression of skill in this game. They're the best designed fights in any mmorpg, and they're the one thing this game had on WoW. And what does sqenix do? Put in a checkpoint like I'm playing new super mario bros with my baby cousins. They purposefully delayed this. Multiple times. E8S was supposed to be bis for this ultimate, except it wasn't. They said that they had to delay content because of covid, and they prioritized other things. That's fine. But then E12S came and went, and still no ultimate. Then we were told Endwalker was on the way, and there were bigger fish to fry. If any of you are unaware, here's a handy little chart:


https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...96/unknown.png

Mark my words, this is the move that will kill their game

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In case you didn't catch the memo, this is, in fact, a game made for casuals.

until this fight is cleared, its too early to judge if the checkpoint is neccessary

https://i.imgur.com/OmR7M40.jpg

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

... nono wait.. I have to hear how this relates to elden ring somehow?

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Because people say that elden ring is the easiest out of all the souls game.

I’m waiting to see the fight in its entirety to make a judgement call on how we feel about it.

Gonna be a while tho we just saw p1 enrage last night

Far be it for me to say, but why not exercise a shred of common sense and elect to withhold trying to pass judgment until you either see the entire fight yourself or clear it yourself?

Fitting copypasta for the thread...

"can't believe SE introduced checkpoints in the ultimate, they ruined the experience for me. Anyway, time to finally push my clear in p1s, been stuck in enrage for months, wish me luck!"

Checkpoints are generally good unless they overdo them..

I had hoped they'd add them to raid finder a long time ago. Can't remember the specifics of a thread from back then but there was an idea that would allow people who had made it past a certain point start a practice party from that point as long as everyone in the party had made it that far.

So you'd queue like duty incomplete> practice> phase 3. And the system would start the fight there.

It was also said that in such a system loot would be removed on victory unless you cleared the full fight in a single run...

Would have made the raid finder a much better tool for practice purposes. Without making the content easier. Be a use you'd still have to clear the whole thing in a single run to get rewards and loot.

And would have saved players hundreds of hours. There was nothing worse than queueing duty Completion phase 3. And finding hundreds of people who'd never entered the instance before also quieing duty completion when they should have been queuing practice phase 1.

And now those same people complain content is innaccessible because noone uses raid finder anymore..

It needed checkpoints a long time ago.

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Originally Posted by kizumiayamame

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...96/unknown.png

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Am I the only one who's bothered by the lines not being in a 90° angle? :(

Elden ring is catered to casuals? LMAO ok chum.

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Originally Posted by kizumiayamame

Mark my words, this is the move that will kill their game

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haha no

99% of the player base are casuals that doesn't care about ultimates

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Originally Posted by Lily_Skye

haha no

99% of the player base are casuals that doesn't care about ultimates

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And the ones who do will buy a carry.

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Originally Posted by hagare

Because people say that elden ring is the easiest out of all the souls game.

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Considering I've only played one souls-ish game and then elden ring.. perhaps I don't have the right perspective..

But hasn't Elden ring been one of the most popular Souls games yet?


So.. by broadening the playerbase and removing some of the most frustrating things about it (checkpoints far between, hardwall boss fights that must be passed or no progression is made) they have created their most successful game to date that is enjoyed by more people... but possibly annoyed purists.....



and.. this is a... bad.. thing?


I will never understand people who need others to enjoy the game the way they do or it invalidates THEMSELVES.

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Originally Posted by KuroTenshi

Except 20 minute fights with no checkpoints aren't making the fight more complicated and intricate, they're making the fight more tedious. That's it.

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It's a bit more complicated than that, the longer a fight goes on the more difficult it is to keep up.
It's not just about tedium it does make them easier, I am not saying it's a good or bad thing but I think it's a bit silly to argue that it doesn't add complexity to it when you have to juggle more things in each pull if you start from the beginning.
Ofc if you had to do phase 1 every pull in P4S it'd make that fight more complex too, especially without a reset like most do.

I don't think it's comparable to running back to the boss in Souls games for example, that's more a matter of tedium but if you could skip phase 1 in a boss fight then yes it'd be less complex.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Considering I've only played one souls-ish game and then elden ring.. perhaps I don't have the right perspective..

But hasn't Elden ring been one of the most popular Souls games yet?


So.. by broadening the playerbase and removing some of the most frustrating things about it (checkpoints far between, hardwall boss fights that must be passed or no progression is made) they have created their most successful game to date that is enjoyed by more people... but possibly annoyed purists.....



and.. this is a... bad.. thing?


I will never understand people who need others to enjoy the game the way they do or it invalidates THEMSELVES.

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The Souls games have become more and more popular with time, altho I'd say with Elden Ring the huge burst of it had more to do with the George RR Martin marketing machine and the open world ( I rly don't like open world games, but memes about them being overdone aside they do sell A LOT ).
Elden Ring has some of the most unfair and bullshit boss design in the entire series, it also has the most bullshit overtuned weapons and tools for the player in the series.
Most people seem to cheese the game and don't realize how bad the boss design actually is.

I loved the game still but the worst part was the bosses on a mechanical level, it's a huge step down from the other Souls games and it felt like the game was designed around people making themselves overpowered and basically cheesing them instead of a more fair 1vs1 duel like in past games.
I do think it caters more to '' casuals '' so to speak because they can just google/ youtube what the most op broken thing is and insta win and it basically just ignores the poor design of the bosses, but if you actually care about the bosses more for the type of challenge you got in past games it's not the same at all.

I do like that there was less running back to bosses tho, altho weirdly enough there were some exceptions to that for some reason.

Is that a bait?....

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

It's a bit more complicated than that, the longer a fight goes on the more difficult it is to keep up.
It's not just about tedium it does make them easier, I am not saying it's a good or bad thing but I think it's a bit silly to argue that it doesn't add complexity to it when you have to juggle more things in each pull if you start from the beginning.
Ofc if you had to do phase 1 every pull in P4S it'd make that fight more complex too, especially without a reset like most do.

I don't think it's comparable to running back to the boss in Souls games for example, that's more a matter of tedium but if you could skip phase 1 in a boss fight then yes it'd be less complex.



The Souls games have become more and more popular with time, altho I'd say with Elden Ring the huge burst of it had more to do with the George RR Martin marketing machine and the open world ( I rly don't like open world games, but memes about them being overdone aside they do sell A LOT ).
Elden Ring has some of the most unfair and bullshit boss design in the entire series, it also has the most bullshit overtuned weapons and tools for the player in the series.
Most people seem to cheese the game and don't realize how bad the boss design actually is.

I loved the game still but the worst part was the bosses on a mechanical level, it's a huge step down from the other Souls games and it felt like the game was designed around people making themselves overpowered and basically cheesing them instead of a more fair 1vs1 duel like in past games.
I do think it caters more to '' casuals '' so to speak because they can just google/ youtube what the most op broken thing is and insta win and it basically just ignores the poor design of the bosses, but if you actually care about the bosses more for the type of challenge you got in past games it's not the same at all.

I do like that there was less running back to bosses tho, altho weirdly enough there were some exceptions to that for some reason.

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Ngl Moonveil being a hop, skip and a jump away from Limgrave in one of Caelid's earliest caves is hilarious to me.

What isn't hilarious is running into Little Timmy and his password summoned phantoms all spamming the Moonveil ash of war like a bunch of discount Vergils. No style, no finesse, no pizzazz. Just makes invasions dull lmao.

Elden Ring is as easy or as hard as you want it to be. If you want the hardcore experience don't over level like crazy and don't go pick up the best gear/skills/spells a Youtube video tells you to get to be OP early. I've beaten all the Soulsborne games+Sekiro and I had a lot of difficulty getting through Elden Ring because I chose a very under tuned pure melee strength build. And for the record, every Soulsborne game has had a very OP af build/weapon that could carry you through the game. Even Sekiro has ways to completely trivialize fights. Did you know you can get a lot of bosses in Sekiro to not even do anything if you just throw fireworks at them between every few hits? And let's not forget you can completely trivialize the father of them all, Demon's Souls, by going with a Royal build. Even the infamous Nameless King can be completely trivialized with a crossbow. Want to stunlock 100% of bosses in Bloodborne? Run to the DLC and get the Whirligig and hold L2. Want an I win button in DS2? Pick up a rapier. Want one in DS3? Sellsword Twinblades. Did you know you can just stand and tank every hit in Four Kings with 0 effort with a full Havel set in DS1? And the bulk of DS1 can be trivialized with certain spells or big 2H weapons. Let's not act like these games are only for hardcore gamers.

As for DSU, like...did you step foot in DSU? I was in there all night and the check point didn't make it any easier. This is my third ultimate and it's definitely going to take a bit to clear this. Definitely going to take longer than Orphan of Kos, Sister Friede, Sword Saint Isshin, Fume Knight, etc.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

... nono wait.. I have to hear how this relates to elden ring somehow?

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ER added checkpoints outside of bosses so you don't have to run from the bonfire, as well as a free choice of a wide variety of summons usable in near every boss fight.

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Originally Posted by GrizzlyTank

ER added checkpoints outside of bosses so you don't have to run from the bonfire, as well as a free choice of a wide variety of summons usable in near every boss fight.

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And yet people have done some really silly runs with "weak" weapons. Bubble only, one dudes using the baby skull item only, etc.

The game let's you do w/e you want.

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Originally Posted by GrizzlyTank

ER added checkpoints outside of bosses so you don't have to run from the bonfire, as well as a free choice of a wide variety of summons usable in near every boss fight.

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I see people bring up the removal of the jog back to the boss room, but it's a bit silly. Most souls games you could just run passed the enemies, so it was just tedious and not actually difficult. I'm glad they removed it lol it added nothing having it

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Originally Posted by BaconBits

Ngl Moonveil being a hop, skip and a jump away from Limgrave in one of Caelid's earliest caves is hilarious to me.

What isn't hilarious is running into Little Timmy and his password summoned phantoms all spamming the Moonveil ash of war like a bunch of discount Vergils. No style, no finesse, no pizzazz. Just makes invasions dull lmao.

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But how would your opponent know you have rivers of blood if you dont spam the weapon art. They have to know!

I’ve been watching Xeno and his group prog it, and this fight does not look easy at all. PF will be struggling with it for a very long time.

Not an Ultimate Raider here but someone looking to get into doing DSR and maybe the others someday. Mostly stuff like anxiety and a terrible, terrible timetable stopping me from doing ultimates.

Frankly. I don't see the bad part about adding Checkpoints to a fight that we know is extremely long and tedious. It does have a sense of false difficulty, due to the difficulty, player stamina, etc. It's not something that you can compare to savage, as many folks have made clear... And I don't really know if my opinion is valid or takes into consideration the experience of Ultimate raiders and the like. But... I'm not against the idea of Checkpoints in long, arduous fights. But it has to be done right in my opinion.

Honestly checkpoints are a welcome addition due to how tedious the previous ultimates were. Maybe they should just give the option to toggle the checkpoint or not, so masochists can have their tediousness fix.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

But how would your opponent know you have rivers of blood if you dont spam the weapon art. They have to know!

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Sometimes I just choose violence and whip out the double seppuku Naginatas.

One check point after the first phase!?? OMG much simplification, such ease. Why, people must be clearing it left and right. /mockrage

Don't know why allowed myself to be baited into this stupidity... yet here I am. -_-

I see nothing wrong with checkpoints, i could never understand this obsession of some people with overturned difficulty's in games anyway. If it goes by me they could reduce the HP of all Raid Bosses in this game by 50%. Seriously whats so fun about running around some Bosses ass for over 20 minutes wiping for some stupid reason and than do it all over again for some shity loot? Sure it maybe fun for some people, but from my viewpoint its just a waste of lifetime.

Ultimate's always have been a Piece of content that take a lot of time to develop and was only be played by like 5% of the whole player base. So i guess its not a bad idea to make it a bit more attractive for the majority of the players.

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Originally Posted by Garnix

Is that a bait?....

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See that up there? That's bait.

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Originally Posted by Missbone

I see nothing wrong with checkpoints, i could never understand this obsession of some people with overturned difficulty's in games anyway. If it goes by me they could reduce the HP of all Raid Bosses in this game by 50%. Seriously whats so fun about running around some Bosses ass for over 20 minutes wiping for some stupid reason and than do it all over again for some shity loot? Sure it maybe fun for some people, but from my viewpoint its just a waste of lifetime.

Ultimate's always have been a Piece of content that take a lot of time to develop and was only be played by like 5% of the whole player base. So i guess its not a bad idea to make it a bit more attractive for the majority of the players.

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There are people that would find the content you engage with an obsession, not fun and just a waste of lifetime. We are all staring at pixels anyway.

Every encounter in this game is a test of memory and nothing else. Memorize the patterns of attack and the safe zones, then execute your memorized rotation. Like all things, some people are better at memorization games than others.

Not gonna lie. I welcome those checkpoints. This won't decrease the difficulty in the least. It will simply make it so you don't have to slowly die inside as you continually repeat mechanic after mechanic you've already mastered while working your way to completion.

Will it enable you to complete the content more quickly? Probably, if you're already up to the task, but that's not the same thing as lowering the difficulty. Some of us have lives. We want to complete our challenging content as quickly and efficiently as possible so we can go back to doing literally anything else. The addition of a checkpoint will certainly increase efficiency.

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Originally Posted by Missbone

I see nothing wrong with checkpoints, i could never understand this obsession of some people with overturned difficulty's in games anyway. If it goes by me they could reduce the HP of all Raid Bosses in this game by 50%. Seriously whats so fun about running around some Bosses ass for over 20 minutes wiping for some stupid reason and than do it all over again for some shity loot? Sure it maybe fun for some people, but from my viewpoint its just a waste of lifetime.

Ultimate's always have been a Piece of content that take a lot of time to develop and was only be played by like 5% of the whole player base. So i guess its not a bad idea to make it a bit more attractive for the majority of the players.

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Maybe the NA player base. JP player base has much higher participation.

Oh no a checkpoint! *eyeroll*

Also I don't think anyones even cleared the fight yet so there's that. But ya totally casual.

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Originally Posted by Lunalepsy

If you want a challenge, you can play either Ragnarok Online or FFXI.

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FFXI isn't even challenging, its just grindy.

We only saw one checkpoint in the entire fight (Which is weird because it's also placed at the beginning, leading me to believe there's something there people haven't figure out).
Relax.

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Originally Posted by FatalFatalis

We only saw one checkpoint in the entire fight (Which is weird because it's also placed at the beginning, leading me to believe there's something there people haven't figure out).
Relax.

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Probably because that part feels more like introduction. The real fight begins with King Thordan who is slapping parties about alllll over that arena much like I imagine he was when extreme was new.

Here I am just wishing the scene with Hersy played out as it does in the fricken Ultimate with you holding off three members of the Heavens' Ward when he swoops in to save you. Stunning little scene there much approval from me! Even better watching others attempt to heal him. Well done messing with the heart Square well done.