Why Alphinaud and Alisaie are so well treated despite being just kids

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Originally Posted by HisShadowX

They were 16 years old when the game begins during ARR. As time has passed, they are older. Sprirtually, we know on the First, they are much older now than they look.

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I agree with you

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Originally Posted by Kenarashi

I mean, they are 16 years of age, who in their right minds would accept them in any military organization. I mean nero and sid garland are grown-ups like most of the member's scions of seven dawn. Of course, Louisoix Leveilleur was an all-powerful mage but what have they accomplished that nearly all people call them not by name but also you could say title, we withness many times people referring to Alisaie as a mistress.
Anyone could enlighten me on this?
Thanks,

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aren't they technically like in their mid-20s now. like, 16 in arr and then hw, sb, shb, ew... yeah like literally 25 because of their time on the first.
like alphie's entire hw plot is him being absurdly young and ruining everything by abusing both wealth and his connections and how naive he was. additionally he doesn't actually make any major decisions as everything the scions do is put to a vote anyway and as there are more adults than not, typically what the adults would vote for ends up happening either way.

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Originally Posted by Denji

aren't they technically like in their mid-20s now. like, 16 in arr and then hw, sb, shb, ew... yeah like literally 25 because of their time on the first.

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There is no defined timeline for the expansions. The devs have stated that they are deliberately not progressing time or having the characters age up, even though logically more than a year has passed by now.

Until they say otherwise, the twins are permanently 16; mentally 17 from a year spent in the First.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Until they say otherwise, the twins are permanently 16; mentally 17 from a year spent in the First.

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Sometimes I wish the real world would work like that. Maybe not 16, but darn, I'd love to stick at 22 physical age but know what I do now so many decades later.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

There is no defined timeline for the expansions. The devs have stated that they are deliberately not progressing time or having the characters age up, even though logically more than a year has passed by now.

Until they say otherwise, the twins are permanently 16; mentally 17 from a year spent in the First.

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alright so if the expansions all took place in a year they're still at the very least 22 at this point.

They're essentially JRPG protags? So uhm.. yeah?
That's just how it works.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

They're not kids in the context of the setting. They are educated adults who have a status that isn't freely given to just anyone, being Archons of Sharlayan. They made some mistakes early on but everyone does and that was part of their character development.

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They're not actually Archons. That's a separate achievement from Studium graduate.

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Originally Posted by Kenarashi

I mean, they are 16 years of age, who in their right minds would accept them in any military organization. I mean nero and sid garland are grown-ups like most of the member's scions of seven dawn. Of course, Louisoix Leveilleur was an all-powerful mage but what have they accomplished that nearly all people call them not by name but also you could say title, we withness many times people referring to Alisaie as a mistress.
Anyone could enlighten me on this?
Thanks,

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I did not read all the answers to this, but...
Maybe, it's because they came from a powerful family and have tons of money to invest in their endeavours and ideas? Even Minfilia would accept such finances helpers in early stages of the story. Or, maybe Alphi is just a freaking good manipulative kid :D

Alphinaud grows wiser as the story goes on making him a better leader and with good strategies.

I can accept the idea that everyone listens to them cause mommy pays the scions bills. Like a bunch of leeches living off a celebrity by saying how awesome and special they are.

Alphinaud and Allisae are the Kardashians of Eorzea.

While it happens mostly off camera, Alph is often said to have excellent negotiating skills on top of being incredibly book smart. He is as much a scholar and tactician as Cid is an engineer.

He's probably a lot like the nerds in Big Bang Theory, or Ender from Ender's Game.

Yes, if they do TLC/polish the story to make that a little clearer, but it is what it is.

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Even if you are rich and powerful you must know that you have to be of a certain age to join organizations or military service.

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Having joined and served with a volunteer medical unit starting at age TWELVE, you are sadly mistaken.

16 years old is not a "kid" either. Not by many nations standards.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

Having joined and served with a volunteer medical unit starting at age TWELVE, you are sadly mistaken.

16 years old is not a "kid" either. Not by many nations standards.

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People are going to argue that there's a difference between volunteering and enlisting, though. There's plenty of volunteer programs for kids these days, but they're not involved in combat in any way.

They never really joined any official military organisation. Alphi made his own, he's not gonna fire himself from it. They've also proven their capabilities in combat so no one is going to say no at this point anymore.

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Originally Posted by HollowedDoll

They're essentially JRPG protags? So uhm.. yeah?
That's just how it works.

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Yeah, kid/teen protagonists are hugely common, especially in jrpgs. I mean in ff7 Yuffie is 17 adn has been doing her thing for who knows how long (I'm sure people know but I don't), Persona 4 and 5 have famous kid detectives, etc.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

While it happens mostly off camera, Alph is often said to have excellent negotiating skills on top of being incredibly book smart. He is as much a scholar and tactician as Cid is an engineer.

He's probably a lot like the nerds in Big Bang Theory, or Ender from Ender's Game.

Yes, if they do TLC/polish the story to make that a little clearer, but it is what it is.

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The thing about Ender was that he rarely made mistakes, if any at all. He won every battle decisively. Alphinaud made some serious errors that almost got the sultana killed.

What I wanna know is why people keep listening to these dumb little twerps. It's one thing for them to make mistakes. It's another thing for all the adults around them to just go "Yeah sure I will follow you/let you do that". Like the first thing they do when they venture out in Garlemald is fail to bridge cultures and improve diplomatic relations and yet they're the first ones to volunteer to go speak with Quistis. And the other scions/adults just LET them. Y'shtola even mentions it sounds like a bad idea. But for no reason at all they just let them do it.

So unrealistic.

/drives away in flying car.

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Originally Posted by MeeDeggiThePunisher

So unrealistic.

/drives away in flying car.

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or a flying young behemoth (so much weight for so much flight!)

The wonders of red bull! (in this case, red behemoth). :D

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Originally Posted by kpxmanifesto

The thing about Ender was that he rarely made mistakes, if any at all. He won every battle decisively. Alphinaud made some serious errors that almost got the sultana killed.

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You're not wrong, at all. I'm in the "WTF why is Alph leading a new free company!?" camp as opposed to literally any other scion (WoL included)...but I think this is the kind of character (Ender-esque) the devs were attempting to emulate.

And why would you assume 16 is not considered adult in eorzea?

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Originally Posted by hagare

that's just like, your opinion man.
Nite

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I mean, do you truly mean that? Or are you going to take that back too? Lmao.

Why have they been given the treatment they have?

They're the mechanisms to push the story along since our characters don't have that capacity. It's clear that they're the most important of the Scions, particularly Alphinaud, and the MSQ wouldn't progress without them taking an "active narrator" role.

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Originally Posted by Necrotica

I can accept the idea that everyone listens to them cause mommy pays the scions bills. Like a bunch of leeches living off a celebrity by saying how awesome and special they are.

Alphinaud and Allisae are the Kardashians of Eorzea.

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did Kim or Khloe get a Master's Degree from an Ivy League school?

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

did Kim or Khloe get a Master's Degree from an Ivy League school?

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Have any of the Kardashians ever actually done anything of real value?

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Originally Posted by Kenarashi

I mean, they are 16 years of age, who in their right minds would accept them in any military organization.

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If you go back to the Age of Sail, the British navy took in children under 15 because they needed as many hands as they could get to crew the ships. If a young person showed up, they wouldn't turn them down. A boy could become a midshipman by age 10, could be commanding people by the time they were 13/14. Not uncommon in the time period. And that's just the British navy, not even talking about the Continental Army or the militias which also had lots of members who we would consider to be minors today.

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Originally Posted by MoofiaBossVal

If you go back to the Age of Sail, the British navy took in children under 15 because they needed as many hands as they could get to crew the ships. If a young person showed up, they wouldn't turn them down. A boy could become a midshipman by age 10, could be commanding people by the time they were 13/14. Not uncommon in the time period. And that's just the British navy, not even talking about the Continental Army or the militias which also had lots of members who we would consider to be minors today.

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Yeah, this rings true. During times of war, a nation would take any help they can get, even if that means arming children or older folks. Ukraine has a volunteer army of children and elders too.

Yeah, it's called read a history book. Plenty of aristocrats and even kings and popes were crowned or took over the family business at 16. Sometimes at 14 or even 12. Same goes for soldiers, just look at today. The people fighting and dying in some desert country arn't 30 year olds you see in movies but kids fresh out of highschool and historically 18 is late to the game. Also, these aren't two 16 year olds with no life experience being thrust into primal battles and solving Eorzea's problems but two collage graduates who studied at the Studium in Old Sharlyan. I don't know if they got their archon marks yet but I do recall Alisaie saying Alphinaud was a protégée and renown for challenging and debating just about everyone and wrote his equivalent to a P.H.D thesis on Old Sharlyans non-interventionism. And were then brought over and watched their Grandfather work before the calamity.

Also, they're from an uber wealthy family and rich. So them being called by title is expected. You've never heard the title "young lord or young lady or young master?".

I mean, this is a Japanese game. They tend to have teen protagonists. By the time you're 20, you're considered an ancient being in Japan :P.

Joan of Arc led armies when she was 18. Alphi and Ali had the benefit on their grandfather's influence as well as high recommendations from Sharlayan (Alphi was even idolized).

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Originally Posted by KurohNeko

Same goes for soldiers, just look at today. The people fighting and dying in some desert country arn't 30 year olds you see in movies but kids fresh out of highschool

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Not sure where you pulled that statistic from, but the average age of US soldiers deployed to the middle east was around 33.4.

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Originally Posted by Worldofwarcraft

I mean, this is a Japanese game. They tend to have teen protagonists. By the time you're 20, you're considered an ancient being in Japan :P.

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Cid is 33, F'lhaminn is 37, both are portrayed as if they were in their early to mid 50's. I recall even Thancred is referred to as an old man a few times, and surely doesn't help everyone has white hair (why DOES everyone have white/grey hair?!)

Alphinaud and Alisaie are adult. In Sharlayan law you are adult after graduading. You can read that in Eorzea Encyclopedia, where there is specific statement in Alhinaud description.

Literal children of a man worshipped as a saint on the mainland. They can get away with a lot. Also this probably belongs in the lore chat

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Originally Posted by kpxmanifesto

People are going to argue that there's a difference between volunteering and enlisting, though. There's plenty of volunteer programs for kids these days, but they're not involved in combat in any way.

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It is and was still dangerous. On a number of occasions, one of which was me and another ambulance officer being caught in the middle of a sudden riot, and being pulled to safety by a team of police officers who knew that all the crowds would see was the uniform and not the medical insignia.

Argue all they like, if things go south you're just as dead. You still serve. You still perform your duty. You are still considered a responsible person to even be allowed to WEAR the uniform and be seen in public. That responsibility accrues to all you do and say when in uniform and when on duty.

You also accept that with that volunteer work comes possible dangers, to you and to your team.

Age does not equal or determine ones's ability to accept adult responsibility and behaviour.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

It is and was still dangerous. On a number of occasions, one of which was me and another ambulance officer being caught in the middle of a sudden riot, and being pulled to safety by a team of police officers who knew that all the crowds would see was the uniform and not the medical insignia.

Argue all they like, if things go south you're just as dead. You still serve. You still perform your duty. You are still considered a responsible person to even be allowed to WEAR the uniform and be seen in public. That responsibility accrues to all you do and say when in uniform and when on duty.

You also accept that with that volunteer work comes possible dangers, to you and to your team.

Age does not equal or determine ones's ability to accept adult responsibility and behaviour.

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There's danger in all walks of life, man. Doesn't make it any more special just because you were twelve at the time. Anyway, the veracity of your story is dubious at best, no offense meant. This is a public internet forum and people literally post any story they want.

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Originally Posted by Gaido

Alphinaud and Alisaie are adult. In Sharlayan law you are adult after graduading. You can read that in Eorzea Encyclopedia, where there is specific statement in Alhinaud description.

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I'm going to have to come back to this because I'm not at home right now and can't check the lorebook quote, but are you taking that from something ambiguously phrased that doesn't outright say "graduating makes you an adult"?

The reference I do have on hand is the Tales From the Calamity, which contradicts that and indicates they are considered adults because of their age.

https://www.finalfantasyxiv.com/anni.../memoir_5.html

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Recent graduates of the Studium, the twins were now sixteen summers old─old enough to be considered of age in Sharlayan society.

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It not contradicts. It can be just correlation. When you are 16 summers old, you are old enough to be considered of age in Sharlayan society, but it is the same time as you are supposed to graduate.

But one is sure and it's fact: Lavelieur twins are adult.

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Originally Posted by Allegor

Cid is 33, F'lhaminn is 37, both are portrayed as if they were in their early to mid 50's. I recall even Thancred is referred to as an old man a few times, and surely doesn't help everyone has white hair (why DOES everyone have white/grey hair?!)

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Cid has been dealing with Nero his whole life. That would give anyone white hair.

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Originally Posted by Gaido

It not contradicts. It can be just correlation. When you are 16 summers old, you are old enough to be considered of age in Sharlayan society, but it is the same time as you are supposed to graduate.

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Not at all. It is the age at which specifically Alphinaud (and Alisaie) graduated, but it is also said in multiple places that they were the youngest to ever be accepted into the Studium, therefore likely also its youngest graduates.

Now that I have book in hand, all it says is "graduating at sixteen, the Sharlayan age of adulthood". It does not connect the two facts, and rings more of the writer finding places to insert lore details where they can.

My understanding is that the Studium is more university than school – teaching older teens and adults. I don't recall seeing any child students there in the game.

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Originally Posted by Kenarashi

I mean, they are 16 years of age, who in their right minds would accept them in any military organization. I mean nero and sid garland are grown-ups like most of the member's scions of seven dawn. Of course, Louisoix Leveilleur was an all-powerful mage but what have they accomplished that nearly all people call them not by name but also you could say title, we withness many times people referring to Alisaie as a mistress.
Anyone could enlighten me on this?
Thanks,

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Extremely rich family that basically runs a city-state. Yeah, they are going to be listened to. Wealth and power does some crazy stuff.