The story is great, but it blatantly gets in the way of the rest of the game

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Originally Posted by Illmaeran

It's one thing to enjoy the content of the story and another to dislike the way the story's presented deeply enough to no longer enjoy the game.

Having the story presented in quests and cutscenes ties it to processes that the OP is finding unenjoyable; namely the massive number of quests needed to complete in order to make further content available. Having capital cities and access to Poetics gear locked behind MSQ progress was incredibly frustrating for me when I started replaying the game. Imagine starting Heavensward at two levels higher than that expansion's max level (62) and not being able to get lvl 60 Poetics gear because you couldn't get to Rhalgr's Reach, or being level 89 when just starting the final zone of 5.0 Shadowbringers and not having access to the full array of vendors in Eulmore. It's a similar situation; I love the game and story, but being held back due to prior design decisions can be extremely frustrating.

Not everything is for everyone. I enjoy cola drinks, but given the choice of having Coke or Pepsi, I'll choose Coke every time. In fact, I'll choose a different drink if Pepsi's the only cola option. I'm very happy that so many people are trying XIV after all these years; however, it's an old game with a lot of content designed with a story-first philosophy that's different from most MMOs. That's not going to be to everyone's taste and there's nothing wrong with that. Life's too short to spend time on something that's intended to be fun doing, even though doing it isn't fun enough to warrant the doing of it. If I were in the OP's shoes, I'd probably be having the same experience; this is a hell of a lot of game to get through to reach current content and play with friends.

Around Christmas 2018 I picked up WoW again to give BfA a try before Classic launched. Having not played since the initial Cata release, I had 7 years of content to get through. Going through all of that was a huge slog that was just barely enjoyable enough to keep me playing, but not fun enough that I wanted to keep playing it after catching up on what I missed. If I'd had friends waiting for me at endgame I'd probably have put it away out of frustration at how long it was taking and how much stuff was locked behind that massive wall of content.

Such is the risk and cost of starting a 10-year old MMO from scratch.

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This is pretty understandable, thank you for the response c:

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Originally Posted by DezereDawn

i'd recommend you maybe take a mild criticism of a large game that isn't perfect a little less personally, this garbage attitude you're presenting is a great way to drive off new players. might wanna drop it <3

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Frankly idc about that either lmfao It's the truth. If you don't like the story. Hit ESC. Slam it over and over. Run from point A to poitn B. But coming onto the threads of an established game and complaining about how you don't like ACTUAL CONTENT is going to garnish attitudes. <3 live with it

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Originally Posted by Tychonius

So, I've been playing this game for the last two weeks about. I've owned it for longer than that, but never really got into it until some friends told me they were really enjoying it so I resubscribed and gave it another shot.

For the most part I've been having a lot of fun, but I have run into a problem that really annoys me: The way the main quest gates access to the expansions makes your progress grind to a complete halt in an obnoxious way at several points of the game.

For example, the ARR storyline has 80 (!!!) quests in a row at the end of it that are all level 50. I understand that this made sense when these quests were released episodically with game updates when the max level was 50, but from the perspective of a new player it's absolutely ridiculous.

You can't make any real progress on any classes you have at 50 with those quests.

You can't use the quests to level other classes up to level 50 either, because they are too low level to do them.

The only thing you can do is just accept the fact that the game randomly completely stalls out your progress until you've completed the quest chain.

The same thing happens at level 60, 70 and 80 again.

This is honestly the only thing in this game for me so far that has stuck out as a genuinely negative experience.

I enjoy the story, but I also enjoy leveling up and exploring other aspects of the game. I want to get to the content my friends are playing. Suddenly the story goes from being something I was enjoying at my own pace to something that is blatantly getting in the way of me accessing the other content. It takes a lot of the fun out of of the story when you feel pressured to just grind through it to be allowed to access the rest of the game.

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So the only Questline I believe that is not required for to move on is Bahamut. Honestly I soloed that after I was done with Shadowbringers and man does it add certain elements to the story.

There's really no reason to level faster on the patch content, though. Even if each single quest gave you several million EXP, what would the point be? You're still gated by the MSQ, and you have to accept that the story is the main selling point of the game.
You can rush through the content or buy a skip, but there's no reason for you to be level 90 on level 50 content because you're gonna get scaled down anyways. Hell, sometimes the game forces you to get scaled up for certain content like PvP and Bozja.

If you really want to grind levels faster, your best options are the daily roulettes and some other content meant for leveling that you'll unlock as you go, but even if that halt in experience feels odd, you're really not missing much. Eventually you'll get the full kit, but the game will force you to be at the level you have to be for the content you're tackling, so there's really no point on worrying about it.

I don't care for most of XIV's story. I'm not a fan of how it presents itself, how many filler quests are shoved into it, how CSs are quite often "show a fist angrily being clenched", "pan over to MC, see her make an angry emote, then show 4 other Scions make the same emote in turn", it feels clunky and it's not my thing.

I would love if they added in more "jumping in points" to the content. If someone is interested in a specific fight/raid/whatever, let them do a few quests to unlock it, then they can be on their way. This is an MMO, and as we all should know, MMOs draw people with a lot of varied interests. Forcing people to suffer through hours and hours and hours of MSQ they may not be interested in at that moment isn't great. Giving people the option of where their time is spent is not a bad thing.

If someone is OK with jumping in mid-way to the story, I feel like that should be left up to the player if it's worth doing or not. The story may not make sense, but the story may not be their jam anyway. XI and GW2 are the two other MMOs I've spent most of my time in, and both of those games give you a decent amount of flexibility in how you unlock your content. You are able to do the story out of order there if you prefer, but in doing so it lets you focus on what you want. And you can always go back to the story when you're ready for it.

With NG+ constantly being expanded, I feel that makes an even stronger point for unshackling a lot of the content being behind full MSQ completion. Let people do what they enjoy in an MMO, and if they decide they do want to partake in the full story, they have the option right there in the form of NG+.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

how CSs are quite often "show a fist angrily being clenched"

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Yeah, it's a parody of itself at this point on some fronts. I've followed the story for years and enjoyed bits of it but especially in recent expansions it seems to have become especially predictable and 'safe'. A lot of what is said could be relayed in far fewer words and we certainly don't need to see characters repeat the same information to other characters that they've just told someone else. I think it was telling that the only combat in the latest batch of MSQ's was within the dungeon itself. Would the single player Final Fantasy single player games be as popular if you spent hours at a time not being able to fight anything? I don't think so.

I'm quite the opposite of the OP. I absolutely loved the story.

In fact, the story was what kept me pressing on with the game. I've admitted in other threads that I'm pretty dreadful at the actual gameplay element of the game and I struggled with this whilst playing through the MSQ. However, the quality of the story was such that the desire to 'see what happens next' meant that, despite getting my ass kicked 25 times by Zenos for example, I tried one more time and blundered my way through it. And I'm really glad I did as it was an incredible journey that I really did savor.

And much like the OP, I have friend who play the game too - at least one of whom I knew from another MMO I used to play and who encouraged me to play FFXIV. I didn't feel any particular rush to get to Endgame and, if anything, they enjoyed seeing me play through content that they'd already enjoyed playing through themselves.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

I would love if they added in more "jumping in points" to the content. If someone is interested in a specific fight/raid/whatever, let them do a few quests to unlock it, then they can be on their way. This is an MMO, and as we all should know, MMOs draw people with a lot of varied interests. Forcing people to suffer through hours and hours and hours of MSQ they may not be interested in at that moment isn't great. Giving people the option of where their time is spent is not a bad thing.

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I think skips are the best we're going to get. All told, they're actually a pretty good deal. In addition to not wanting to waste all the XP I'd lose due to being maxed before SB was over, I've got personal reasons for not wanting to play SB, so I got a skip. I never thought I'd hear myself say this, but I'm glad I did. With all the extra things you get with it; dungeon/raid unlocks, Gil, poetics gear, chocobo feathers, etc, $20-25 is a bargain. Considering I paid $50-60 each for 2.0 through 6.0; $50 for a skip to (through?) Shadowbringers with a level skip to max is actually pretty sweet.

Being one myself, it does take a "Special kind of crazy" to enjoy the MSQ slog. However, just because I enjoyed the grand scheme of it doesn't mean I didn't really struggle to get through certain portions of every expansion. The (original) end of ARR was tough and Stormblood in its entirety was a generally awful experience, that actually did cause me to stop playing part way through the 4.0 content. Certain latter portions of Heavensward and Shadowbringers were merely unpleasant and not horrible to get through. The only thing that got me through them was knowing I had to in order to continue doing things I enjoyed doing post-MSQ and to play with my FC mates.

Oh look the typical "this game just isn't for you" responses. Guess I can scratch that off my bingo card.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

I don't care for most of XIV's story. I'm not a fan of how it presents itself, how many filler quests are shoved into it, how CSs are quite often "show a fist angrily being clenched", "pan over to MC, see her make an angry emote, then show 4 other Scions make the same emote in turn", it feels clunky and it's not my thing.

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I concur. The MSQ scenes are starting to show their age and they're aging like a fine milk. I still remember that one scene at the end of a specific expansion between NPC 1 and NPC 2 not having seen each other in a long time and that absolutely stunning emote exchange.

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Originally Posted by Tychonius

So, I've been playing this game for the last two weeks about. I've owned it for longer than that, but never really got into it until some friends told me they were really enjoying it so I resubscribed and gave it another shot.

For the most part I've been having a lot of fun, but I have run into a problem that really annoys me: The way the main quest gates access to the expansions makes your progress grind to a complete halt in an obnoxious way at several points of the game.

For example, the ARR storyline has 80 (!!!) quests in a row at the end of it that are all level 50. I understand that this made sense when these quests were released episodically with game updates when the max level was 50, but from the perspective of a new player it's absolutely ridiculous.

You can't make any real progress on any classes you have at 50 with those quests.

You can't use the quests to level other classes up to level 50 either, because they are too low level to do them.

The only thing you can do is just accept the fact that the game randomly completely stalls out your progress until you've completed the quest chain.

The same thing happens at level 60, 70 and 80 again.

This is honestly the only thing in this game for me so far that has stuck out as a genuinely negative experience.

I enjoy the story, but I also enjoy leveling up and exploring other aspects of the game. I want to get to the content my friends are playing. Suddenly the story goes from being something I was enjoying at my own pace to something that is blatantly getting in the way of me accessing the other content. It takes a lot of the fun out of of the story when you feel pressured to just grind through it to be allowed to access the rest of the game.

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I'd say go play Phanatsy Star Online 2 New Genesis. Story is pretty non existent there

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Originally Posted by Cithaerias_pyropina

Oh look the typical "this game just isn't for you" responses. Guess I can scratch that off my bingo card.



I concur. The MSQ scenes are starting to show their age and they're aging like a fine milk. I still remember that one scene at the end of a specific expansion between NPC 1 and NPC 2 not having seen each other in a long time and that absolutely stunning emote exchange.

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Also how can you rag on those responses? It seems to be the truth. Also cutscenes have been better than ever in xiv so that a VERY odd take

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Originally Posted by WhiteWitch

You could do what I did when i first played through ARR. (that was before they shortened it)
watch youtube summaries of the story. or just buy a skip. but everything after arr is pretty good, i see no reason to complain..

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I'd normally suggest playing the game, but I don't fault anyone who wants the Cliffnotes version of ARR or simply wants to skip it completely. It's a bit of a drag compared to what comes after.

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Also how can you rag on those responses? It seems to be the truth. Also cutscenes have been better than ever in xiv so that a VERY odd take

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You truly think "if you don't like the MSQ, this game isn't for you?" is a valid reply?

Using myself as an example, I don't like XIV's story, but I've been around since ARR launch and beyond. I've also spent faaaar too much money on this game, which I think SE probably appreciates, but with that advice, I should have packed up 10 years ago and spent my money elsewhere.

MMOs have a lot of features, all designed to lure in different kinds of players. The MSQ is only a portion of what makes up this game. Now, for some people, hating the MSQ may be enough to make them go to another game, but for others, it's just a negative mark on a game they otherwise enjoy. It's going to vary by person as we all have different interests and expectations for a game. But to tell someone this game isn't for them solely because they dislike the story? That's just dumb.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

You truly think "if you don't like the MSQ, this game isn't for you?" is a valid reply?

Using myself as an example, I don't like XIV's story, but I've been around since ARR launch and beyond. I've also spent faaaar too much money on this game, which I think SE probably appreciates, but with that advice, I should have packed up 10 years ago and spent my money elsewhere.

MMOs have a lot of features, all designed to lure in different kinds of players. The MSQ is only a portion of what makes up this game. Now, for some people, hating the MSQ may be enough to make them go to another game, but for others, it's just a negative mark on a game they otherwise enjoy. It's going to vary by person as we all have different interests and expectations for a game. But to tell someone this game isn't for them solely because they dislike the story? That's just dumb.

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No I think if story based mmos aren't his thing this isn't the game for him. If he finds it so bad skip cutscenes or buy a skip. There already are solutions to his problem. If those aren't enough ther mmos are out there. Call it dumb if you'd like. I don't need you to agree. After all it's opinions at the end of the day.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

You truly think "if you don't like the MSQ, this game isn't for you?" is a valid reply?

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It is a valid reply, and it applies to every hobby in life. Don't enjoy something for one reason or another? Stop doing it, otherwise you're just wasting your time and making yourself frustrated for no reason. What isn't valid is expecting the foundations of something to change because you don't like it. We aren't talking QoL or class changes, etc, we're talking "tear out the skeleton of the game and put something else in." That is absurdly arrogant and delusional, and it always baffles me that people think this is a reasonable approach for the devs to take.

I used to bounce back and forth between WoW and FFXIV (Wow since 2004, FFXIV since HW) before I acknowledged during BFA (well before the crap show hit), after years of decisions I didn't agree with, "ok, this just isn't for me anymore" and left. Never looked back, and the newest expansion doesn't interest me in the least. It's ok to stop doing something if you no longer derive entertainment from it. Sunk cost fallacy can take a hike.

You hate the story (questionable since it's the focus, but fair enough) yet still find things you enjoy about it, and that outweighs what you don't like enough for you to continue playing. Genuinely, good for you. You're a minority, though, and no, the forums are not the bulk of the player population and are a poor indicator of anything; the bulk never visit forums (as with any game or other hobby). If this were not the case, the devs would focus less on story and more on other things... and they don't, yet continue to gain and maintain a stable sub base, which is telling enough.

Funny thing is... the devs acknowledge there are some people that don't care about what they care about, so gave people an option to skip the story on the online store. "But people shouldn't have to pay to skip!", you might say. Hard disagree. Again, the story (whether one likes it or not) is the foundation everything else is built on. They never wanted story skip to be a thing and encouraged people to play normally, so outside of that, if you want to skip, better pay up. Seems reasonable to me. I've also seen on these forums (and elsewhere) that many newer players regretted buying a story skip because they had no idea what was going on and as a result had no investment in anything. They realised exactly what they were missing upon doing New Game +, and wished they had simply played through normally the first go, rather than souring their original experience due to a missed placed desire to get to "the real game" (lol?), or what have you.

One final thing... If one is rushing to "the real game" (again... what. the entire story is "the real game") so one can play with ones' friends... I have to ask : why aren't ones' friends playing with them? Make an alt, go through the story with your newbie friend(s), and relive your first time through the game by proxy. I did that with my sister, and it was great. Her genuine excitement made me excited, and her various "Oh damn" moments, etc, were hilarious. If a supposed "friend" isn't willing to do the same, well... that's a poor friend, imo.

The MSQ gestapo is on the place I see.
Let's be honest here, the MSQ has really great moments yes, but it also has very boring and just bad written ones. It can be a gate for some people, and it is for all the players who couldn't make it to the end.
So yes, OP has a point. A point that forced, in the past SE to revamp ARR.
Why jumping on him like this then?

The new player experience in this game is made genuinely worse by the fact that you have to go through this bizarre hazing ritual of reenacting nine years of live service with all the waits between expansions through the story missions before you're allowed to actually play the game in its present state. Let's say you're getting into FF14 in 2022 and you're looking through the class list going "Huh, Sage looks cool!", but then it turns out you're actually several months of playing regularly away from being able to even touch the class. It's not a satisfying experience to basically be forced to play the game as it was years ago for hundreds of hours to be able to access things that may have been a selling point for you in the here and now.

If someone has played for years and has enjoyed the story at the pace at which it was being told I understand why they are fond of it. But why does a newer player need to be locked out of all expansion content until they have caught up on all of it? The newer player doesn't get several years to finish those missions at their leisure with long periods of time in between for exploring other aspects of the game. If they want to catch up they just have to sit down and power through them. It turns the story into an obnoxious gatekeeper stopping you from rolling the classes you find interesting, getting into difficult dungeons, joining high level activities or even just taking your time with the low level stuff if you don't want to be endlessly delayed instead of it being a fun aspect of the game you play when you feel like doing story missions.

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Originally Posted by Mirhd

It is a valid reply, and it applies to every hobby in life. Don't enjoy something for one reason or another? Stop doing it, otherwise you're just wasting your time and making yourself frustrated for no reason. What isn't valid is expecting the foundations of something to change because you don't like it. We aren't talking QoL or class changes, etc, we're talking "tear out the skeleton of the game and put something else in." That is absurdly arrogant and delusional, and it always baffles me that people think this is a reasonable approach for the devs to take.

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Telling people to leave the game if they think the main quest shouldn't insist on itself so hard is absolutely not valid. It's completely hypocritical and here is why:

You're not jumping on the devs for putting PvP arenas or raids in the game. You're not complaining that there are levels and gear and materia harvesting and an auction house and a retainer system and player housing and costuming.

There are tens of thousands of work hours being poured into creating parts of the game that have nothing to do with the story. That exist entirely to appeal to people who enjoy other aspects of the MMORPG genre.

Why is it that a player should be considered wrong for wanting to enjoy those parts of the game freely, but the devs are somehow not wrong for creating those parts of the game with the clear intent that someone would enjoy them?

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Originally Posted by Novae

The MSQ gestapo is on the place I see.

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Good grief, do you think before you type? It certainly doesn't seem like it. Gestapo? really? People talk about "shutting down criticism" (not even close to what's happening here, by the way), then the same people come out with this.

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Originally Posted by Tychonius

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I already acknowledged other parts of the game. Really, you didn't read what I typed at all, did you? I certainly doesn't seem like it.

I really do hope that the people here that are passionately defending the design are trolls. I suspect more are then people think, but some of course aren't

I see both sides of the argument really

I do think that FFXIV's decision, while certainly was an "I quit" moment for people, has been overall extremely beneficial to the game. I think shorter leveling times and lack of world building are the biggest cause of how 99% of mmorpgs have sharp population drop offs within months of releasing the game. Rift is the poster child for this. Everyone loved it at launch, 1mn sold. people loved the class system. The events were fun. But there was no hook to that game world and you were max level in 2 weeks. 3 months later the game was down to 1/3 of its initial population and it never recovered

I also think the 'slog' of ARR is greatly exaggerated now. There are a few stinker quests for sure, and the story doesnt always flow well. But its also where they start to really grow in their storytelling. From 2.3 on is pretty good.

The big issue, IMO of course, is that you go this whole time with no new skills, even when soloing. Later expansions get around this, but really the HW skills should not be locked behind class quests.

I do think that part of the reason for duty support is so they can remove the prior MSQ requirements. That way people dont have to worry about nobody queueing for stuff. Starting a new story arc gives them a good chance to do this.

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Originally Posted by Lecru

"Hello i'm new! I can't be bothered with actually questing or enjoying my time doing the 'On Content' quests, that when relevant was drip fed content to the masses. But I don't like this. So i'm gonna say how bad it is because I wasn't here for the content"

This about sum up what I just read?

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You guys can't stop jumping people for one second can you?
A new player no less. Jesus Christ.

FFXIV is a story-focused MMO. If you don't like that, then there are many other MMOs to play in the market. It's as simple as this.
Someone does not simply go walk into Runescape and say: "Hey, it's a player-driven game and that stands in the way of entertainment!" or to Destiny2 and say: "Hey, it's an FPS game and not tab target and that stands in the way of entertainment!".
In the same manner, one does not simply walk into a story-focused MMO and say the story is locking the content behind it. That's the whole point of the game. FFXIV without the story isn't really great. You can't come in and slam the story aside as if it's nothing. That's insulting.

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Originally Posted by Kranel_San

FFXIV is a story-focused MMO. If you don't like that, then there are many other MMOs to play in the market. It's as simple as this.
Someone does not simply go walk into Runescape and say: "Hey, it's a player-driven game and that stands in the way of entertainment!" or to Destiny2 and say: "Hey, it's an FPS game and not tab target and that stands in the way of entertainment!".
In the same manner, one does not simply walk into a story-focused MMO and say the story is locking the content behind it. That's the whole point of the game. FFXIV without the story isn't really great. You can't come in and slam the story aside as if it's nothing. That's insulting.

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Whats insulting is you didnt seem to read their post.

They want to do the story, but they want to do other things along with it

It is a valid concern and it does not really have an easy answer

There is no question that the expansions are going to be more impactful to people who have played through what was before, for most people.
The game could use some more content that these MSQ limbo players can do with their friends other than just the roulettes, for exp that they dont even need.

I'm a bit lost. Are we still talking about the 50/60/70/80 exp drought?

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Originally Posted by Broken_Wind

They want to do the story, but they want to do other things along with it

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Other things alongside the story, like what? XIV is already called a "theme park mmo" because it has a truckload of stuff to do besides the MSQ, but doing any of that will halt the MSQ progress.
Many things get unlocked way before 50, from the ocean fishing, to pvp, the gold saucer, deep dungeon...

Also, I don't entirely get this. On the other MMOs I've played, it's usually rush the story then immediately farm X content ad-nauseam, which is why I quit most of them. This is the only one where I can play as if I was playing any other RPG and have fun with it without my friends chewing my ear about how the game is not fun until you do the latest dungeon or raid released.
It's great that people want to experience high level gameplay, but there's already a story skip for that, the unending journey book and New Game+ just in case they want to experience the story at their own pace without missing on the newest content. I don't know what else they could do to give you something to do while you're doing the MSQ.

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Originally Posted by Eelanos

I'm a bit lost. Are we still talking about the 50/60/70/80 exp drought?



Other things alongside the story, like what? XIV is already called a "theme park mmo" because it has a truckload of stuff to do besides the MSQ, but doing any of that will halt the MSQ progress.
Many things get unlocked way before 50, from the ocean fishing, to pvp, the gold saucer, deep dungeon...

Also, I don't entirely get this. On the other MMOs I've played, it's usually rush the story then immediately farm X content ad-nauseam, which is why I quit most of them. This is the only one where I can play as if I was playing any other RPG and have fun with it without my friends chewing my ear about how the game is not fun until you do the latest dungeon or raid released.
It's great that people want to experience high level gameplay, but there's already a story skip for that, the unending journey book and New Game+ just in case they want to experience the story at their own pace without missing on the newest content. I don't know what else they could do to give you something to do while you're doing the MSQ.

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This is a fair counterpoint. There is a large chunk there, it doesnt help you get to endgame faster of course

And I do agree with your assessment on rush story > farm, but appreciate not everyone feels the same

Ultimately the issue is simply that the story gates all of the expansion content in this game, and that means if there is any part of the game you look forward to that isn't available from the start the story is now in your way.

I've been in the game for two weeks now and haven't been allowed to actually play the class that most interests me. I just don't see how that somehow makes for a better experience.

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Originally Posted by Tychonius

Ultimately the issue is simply that the story gates all of the expansion content in this game, and that means if there is any part of the game you look forward to that isn't available from the start the story is now in your way.

I've been in the game for two weeks now and haven't been allowed to actually play the class that most interests me. I just don't see how that somehow makes for a better experience.

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Fortunately there are only three classes gated by story. The rest are level gated. And the three story locked classes are at the very start of the first expansion. So they did listen to the feedback with that.

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Originally Posted by Tychonius

The new player experience in this game is made genuinely worse by the fact that you have to go through this bizarre hazing ritual of reenacting nine years of live service with all the waits between expansions through the story missions before you're allowed to actually play the game in its present state. Let's say you're getting into FF14 in 2022 and you're looking through the class list going "Huh, Sage looks cool!", but then it turns out you're actually several months of playing regularly away from being able to even touch the class. It's not a satisfying experience to basically be forced to play the game as it was years ago for hundreds of hours to be able to access things that may have been a selling point for you in the here and now.

If someone has played for years and has enjoyed the story at the pace at which it was being told I understand why they are fond of it. But why does a newer player need to be locked out of all expansion content until they have caught up on all of it? The newer player doesn't get several years to finish those missions at their leisure with long periods of time in between for exploring other aspects of the game. If they want to catch up they just have to sit down and power through them. It turns the story into an obnoxious gatekeeper stopping you from rolling the classes you find interesting, getting into difficult dungeons, joining high level activities or even just taking your time with the low level stuff if you don't want to be endlessly delayed instead of it being a fun aspect of the game you play when you feel like doing story missions.

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I completely agree - there's a literal mountain of stuff to get through for new players and I think at some point SE is going to have to address that. As someone who doesn't play for the story but didn't want to buy a story skip, here's how I got through the huge wall of post ARR quests: pretty much wore out my mouse skipping through the npc dialogue and the ESC button was my friend for cutscenes. I just set aside the time to plow through everything and finished in a day. You could also level another job if you need a break from clicking all those dialogue boxes and running from point A to B. there's also Palace of the Dead where you can try out new jobs and also get exp. There's the Gold Saucer for some fun on the side too.

Don't let anyone here make you feel bad or wrong for not liking the story. People enjoy the game in different ways; some people just like to do crafting/gathering and hate having to step foot in a dungeon or trial. Some people just like the challenge of Ultimate raids. Some people literally just play for the story and then unsubscribe until the next part of the story comes out. Enjoy the game the way you want!

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Originally Posted by Broken_Wind

Whats insulting is you didnt seem to read their post.

They want to do the story, but they want to do other things along with it

It is a valid concern and it does not really have an easy answer

There is no question that the expansions are going to be more impactful to people who have played through what was before, for most people.
The game could use some more content that these MSQ limbo players can do with their friends other than just the roulettes, for exp that they dont even need.

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skip when they play and watch it on youtube.

I didn't even know there is a story skip when I started, nor did I know the story would become such a bizarre obstacle to enjoying the rest of the game. I don't really want to skip the story either, I just don't want to have to feel like it's the one part of the game you absolutely have to get "out of the way" before you're free to engage with the content in any order and at any pace you want.

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Originally Posted by Broken_Wind

Fortunately there are only three classes gated by story. The rest are level gated. And the three story locked classes are at the very start of the first expansion. So they did listen to the feedback with that.

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Good to know I guess. Still, I wanted to play Astrologian and that's definitely a Heavensward class.

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Originally Posted by Tychonius

I didn't even know there is a story skip when I started, nor did I know the story would become such a bizarre obstacle to enjoying the rest of the game. I don't really want to skip the story either, I just don't want to have to feel like it's the one part of the game you absolutely have to get "out of the way" before you're free to engage with the content in any order and at any pace you want.

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well it is.
If you can't be bothered to watch it in game. Skip it and youtube it.
Or unending journey it at your own time.

OP, it's a fair point.

You play through the story and get a steady feel of progression in XP and new content unlocked, but then you are doing what is essentially filler quests at "cap". New content is unlocked, but most of it is just side stuff with no real bearing on the main story at hand, especially in ARR when you just want to get to Ishgard. I've played through ARR 3 times now, and yeah, the 2.x pre Ishgard bit just isn't fun.

I will say this: Once you get into Ishgard, the story, even the 3.x and 4.x end of expansion stuff feels MUCH better than ARR.

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Originally Posted by hagare

well it is.
If you can't be bothered to watch it in game. Skip it and youtube it.
Or unending journey it at your own time.

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The point isn't that I can't be bothered to watch it, the point is if I play five days a week and I like to PvP on one of them, raid on the next, RP on the third, craft on the fourth and do story the fifth then all the other activities I enjoy are held up by the story, so I have to do story five days a week if I ever want no restrictions on the rest of the stuff. I don't want to pay 25 bucks to be allowed to to access expansion content I already paid for without hundreds of hours of frontloaded story and then replay it with NG+ either.

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Originally Posted by Tychonius

The point isn't that I can't be bothered to watch it, the point is if I play five days a week and I like to PvP on one of them, raid on the next, RP on the third, craft on the fourth and do story the fifth then all the other activities I enjoy are held up by the story, so I have to do story five days a week if I ever want no restrictions on the rest of the stuff. I don't want to pay 25 bucks to be allowed to to access expansion content I already paid for without hundreds of hours of frontloaded story and then replay it with NG+ either.

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One thing that is unique with FFXIV is old raid content can be done 'synced' and provide a challenge. Not as difficult as it was back in the day, but still gives you a good raid experience

And with Party Finder its probably more feasible then you think. Especially if you already have a couple of friends.

This isnt for everyone granted, but it is an option once you get done with 2.0 which is probably about ~40 hours total if you read text and watch cutscenes, faster if you just skip skip skip

PvP is fully unlocked at lvl 30 as well, so thats already an option. And crafting is a long road too that has its own leveling system

To be clear, I'm not trying to invalidate your point but there is a middle ground that is perhaps better than you realize because FFXIV is different from other games

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Originally Posted by Broken_Wind

I do think that FFXIV's decision, while certainly was an "I quit" moment for people, has been overall extremely beneficial to the game. I think shorter leveling times and lack of world building are the biggest cause of how 99% of mmorpgs have sharp population drop offs within months of releasing the game. Rift is the poster child for this. Everyone loved it at launch, 1mn sold. people loved the class system. The events were fun. But there was no hook to that game world and you were max level in 2 weeks. 3 months later the game was down to 1/3 of its initial population and it never recovered

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I'm gonna bring up ESO for that. Granted there's already pre-existing lore, it's a good entry to the TES universe so new players can get interested, and it manages to rejoice lorebeards like Skyrim and Oblivion could never without forcing hundreds of hours of story and cutscenes down people's throats. In a way, similarly to ESO being helped with "The Elder Scrolls" being in the name, I think "Final Fantasy" being in the game's title helped, a lot.
It's truly great and enjoyable because people are able to enjoy all of that story and lore at their own pace without being gated from partaking in every other content the game has to offer. And a think a story heavy game like XIV would've heavily benefited from such a system.

Without a doubt I'd have given XIV's story a chance if I wasn't forced to do it to do what is relevant to my interest, namely harder content.

Frankly the story is hindered by the quests themselves. I love the plot and story of this game but holy hell does the thought of doing MSQ make my skin crawl. I was literally screaming during the second half of endwalker how bad it was with the pointless mindless chores. I was literally thinking "please god shake your head WoL I beg you to turn down this stupid pointless request."

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Originally Posted by Tychonius

The new player experience in this game is made genuinely worse by the fact that you have to go through this bizarre hazing ritual of reenacting nine years of live service with all the waits between expansions through the story missions before you're allowed to actually play the game in its present state.

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That is your problem. You're approaching the game with the wrong attitude and expectations.

All that prior story is part of the game in its present state.

This isn't WoW, where the previous expansions don't matter to the latest iteration of the dev team. Here what came before matters to the present. You need to stop viewing it as a separate piece of content. The game is one long journey.

If that's not your style, that's fine. It's not going to appeal to everyone. But don't expect the game to change just because you want to skip to get to what you think will be the good parts.

By the way, where are your "friends" in all of this? You know they could be joining you as you play through the MSQ. That's possible here between New Game+ and level sync in instanced content, no need to create a new character to play through the same content that you are.

If they want you to be playing with them in side content, one would think they'd be helping to make the entire experience more enjoyable for you by keeping you company instead of abandoning you to do it alone. Are you certain they're really your friends?

Unfortunately OP, seeing the story as something to get out of the way seems to be the issue. This isn't a game where the design encourages that. The story is the game and the journey is part of the experience. They have given the nod to those who want to skip, but they're not going to make it easy because that would undermine the design and experience they built the game around.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

That is your problem. You're approaching the game with the wrong attitude and expectations.

All that prior story is part of the game in its present state.

This isn't WoW, where the previous expansions don't matter to the latest iteration of the dev team. Here what came before matters to the present. You need to stop viewing it as a separate piece of content. The game is one long journey.

If that's not your style, that's fine. It's not going to appeal to everyone. But don't expect the game to change just because you want to skip to get to what you think will be the good parts.

By the way, where are your "friends" in all of this? You know they could be joining you as you play through the MSQ. That's possible here between New Game+ and level sync in instanced content, no need to create a new character to play through the same content that you are.

If they want you to be playing with them in side content, one would think they'd be helping to make the entire experience more enjoyable for you by keeping you company instead of abandoning you to do it alone. Are you certain they're really your friends?

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This basically, I mean do you play pokemon hurrying to get to the battle frontier or do you take your time getting to the gyms?

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Originally Posted by MagicalChase

Frankly the story is hindered by the quests themselves. I love the plot and story of this game but holy hell does the thought of doing MSQ make my skin crawl. I was literally screaming during the second half of endwalker how bad it was with the pointless mindless chores. I was literally thinking "please god shake your head WoL I beg you to turn down this stupid pointless request."

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It doesn't help when the quests are mostly go talk to x, walk with y, follow z. EW was the first expansion as well where I skipped every cutscene in an entire zone, because how can prepping supplies for people to go to the moon be interesting. At least the other expansions had more frequent interesting duties involved in questing.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

That is your problem. You're approaching the game with the wrong attitude and expectations.

All that prior story is part of the game in its present state.

This isn't WoW, where the previous expansions don't matter to the latest iteration of the dev team. Here what came before matters to the present. You need to stop viewing it as a separate piece of content. The game is one long journey.

If that's not your style, that's fine. It's not going to appeal to everyone. But don't expect the game to change just because you want to skip to get to what you think will be the good parts.

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This being said though, it as unfriendly to new players for the opposite reason of WoW, where there is a lot of stuff that players have to do to reach the end game content to play with other players. I actually do expect the game to change because if it is not new player friendly, new players are not going to join. They need to have a second starting point after EW in all honesty, which is why they need to move away from the scions ASAP so that new starting point can begin.

I think the biggest problem in the game right now is the 1-50 ARR experience is just not that much fun. Gameplay is bad (If you disagree, I challenge you to make a new char and play as rogue through the MSQ), the story is honestly a drag till after Titan and just when you think you are done, you get smacked with the 2.1-2.55 slog. There are legitimate complaints about the new player experience and honestly, SE needs to completely revamp the ARR experience.