What has gotten into the community these days?

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Originally Posted by EaraGrace

I think OP is just trying to encourage everyone to look behind the screen and see the person, not minimize what others are feeling. Its something we can all forget, as I know I have.

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OP could have posted that in any of the multitudes of white knighting threads, instead they wanted attention to make their own post.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

OP could have posted that in any of the multitudes of white knighting threads, instead they wanted attention to make their own post.

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But its fine when we have countless of threads about the other side? About Toxic positivity or whats going on with the devs?

We will always have people posting their own little topic even when a similiar thread is still on the front page. On the lore forum alone there is a thread talking about the story of 6.1 and yet countless of other threads that are about story points from 6.1 are also there. All of them could have fit in that one thread but honestly who really cares? I guess all of these people also just want attention?

Edit:
And about the topic itself:

Both sides can be very extreme in their views and it seems right now the forum is in a very aggressive state. I can understand it somewhat. I myself have been very angry with SE quite a few times over the years and posted about this here. Still of course tried to stay as nice as possible even if sometimes it was much harsher than intended. There are still a few things that I dislike, including housing for example. So I get the anger. I also get that if you like all these things, that its annoying to read so many negative thoughts or even be seen as a white knight for writing your own opinions about a topic.

Thats why I agree with the OP in the regards that we all should try to remember that there is a human behind the screen. And trying to be at least a bit polite towards them does not mean that you cant still rage on about different topics without insulting the other posters at the same time.

I know that most of the posters that are angry right now like the game. They are angry because they want it to be better. Its a feeling I had countless of times over the years. Yet I also wonder how some can still be there when every expansion is seemingly the breaking point for them and yet even though it does not get better they still stay.

OP reminds me guy from : leave Britney alone. I'm serious!


https://pics.me.me/leave-britney-alone-21472497.png

Part of the issue is that negativity and cynicism is the default mindset of most people. We focus only on the bad and completely ignore the good. For example, this housing debacle is bad, true, but it's literally overshadowing everything good that came in 6.1 like a cool MSQ, an awesome Alliance Raid, a big step up in PvP, etc. All that is completely forgotten to focus on the bad. There is no moderation. It's just "it's all bad!"

I tend to take that moderate approach. There are things I'd like to see fixed. I accept that there are some things that are difficult to fix. I understand the devs do work hard and not everything can be perfect or finished quickly without needing a full engine overhaul I also really enjoy a ton of stuff in the game that is really fun and awesome.

And while there are valid criticisms, there are also plenty of people who are just nasty to others. Like the guy above me. He adds nothing to thread or discussion.

If the FFXIV subreddit is an echo chamber of "toxic" positivity, then the forums are an echo chamber of toxic negativity.

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Originally Posted by Wolfsbane706

If the FFXIV subreddit is an echo chamber of "toxic" positivity, then the forums are an echo chamber of toxic negativity.

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So when both sides point something out then it might stand to reason that the devs should look into it and see what the fuss is about, right?

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Originally Posted by Wolfsbane706

If the FFXIV subreddit is an echo chamber of "toxic" positivity, then the forums are an echo chamber of toxic negativity.

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Yep. There is literally no praising of what's actually good with the game. It's all "the game is terrible and the devs are lazy", which is such a bad take. The game isn't perfect, but you'd swear it's the worst game ever designed and that CBU3 are just sitting there smoking cigars and drinking sake while half-assing their way through development. Apparently people won't be happy unless the devs work 24 hours a day.

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Originally Posted by Ryaz

Yep. There is literally no praising of what's actually good with the game. It's all "the game is terrible and the devs are lazy", which is such a bad take. The game isn't perfect, but you'd swear it's the worst game ever designed and that CBU3 are just sitting there smoking cigars and drinking sake while half-assing their way through development. Apparently people won't be happy unless the devs work 24 hours a day.

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Its always these 2 extremes I see most loud with the community.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Its always these 2 extremes I see most loud with the community.

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Thats because extremists all scream the loudest. You can genuinely love the game, while realizing that not everything is perfect, have valid criticism and hope for fixes, without painting the devs as some cackling villains who don't care about the state of the game and are just trying to suction money from our wallets with minimal returns. Conversely, there are some things that need fixing that have been around for too long that the dev team should focus on, but I understand they need a balancing act of fixes and new content. What they did with old dungeons is amazing.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Its always these 2 extremes I see most loud with the community.

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People get frustrated because it feels like the developers aren't listening, housing has been a problem for a long time. Viera and Hroths have had issues with headgear and hairstyles for years. Living dead was terrible for years, White Mage had issues for years. A lot of these complaints aren't new, people just get louder and less polite when it seems like they're not being heard and their only option is to sit and wait for years to see if it will maybe be addressed.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I'd be more inclined to take the TC seriously if they hadn't been going around tagging several different threads as "whining" when people were voicing perfectly valid complaints/criticism.

With that in mind, this message comes across very differently to me.

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Yes.

Fluttering your eyelashes and going "can we pwease get awong? uwu" after slapping pass-agg tags everywhere is really something. Then there's that other thread where the OP feigns "concern" for the devs' well-being, then turns out to be unhinged harasser himself. I am always wary of someone who tries to present themselves as being nice and kind and morally pure.

A lot of the time it starts with people seeing criticism and responding in very passive agressive manners, I guess its contagious since im not really free of guilt either and im usually unconfronting.

Everyone in general should start being more self conscious about their passive agressive and sarcastic comments.

The FFXIV devs (and SE in general) are not my friends. They don't know me and they don't really care about me (and this goes doubly since I'm in NA and not JP).

They are a vendor and I am a customer. The only thing they care about is my money, otherwise they wouldn't vaporize my house if I choose to do what the developer says we should all do, and "take a break" for a while. Clearly, he meant "take a break from playing, but keep paying us". Which is what I have to do in order to keep something I earned in-game and spent countless hours and millions of gil on.

If there wasn't a constant threat of punishing me for taking a break, I would maybe be more sympathetic, but there is, so I'm not.

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Originally Posted by Ryaz

Thats because extremists all scream the loudest. You can genuinely love the game, while realizing that not everything is perfect, have valid criticism and hope for fixes, without painting the devs as some cackling villains who don't care about the state of the game and are just trying to suction money from our wallets with minimal returns. Conversely, there are some things that need fixing that have been around for too long that the dev team should focus on, but I understand they need a balancing act of fixes and new content. What they did with old dungeons is amazing.

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What did they do to old dungeons besides add a trust system type thing. And if you are referring the Main Story roulette dungeons that is something that is such a minor change that so few players are honestly going to care about. There was not really and issue with it before and it's not really any better than it was before in all honesty.

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Originally Posted by Feron

The FFXIV devs (and SE in general) are not my friends. They don't know me and they don't really care about me (and this goes doubly since I'm in NA and not JP).

They are a vendor and I am a customer. The only thing they care about is my money, otherwise they wouldn't vaporize my house if I choose to do what the developer says we should all do, and "take a break" for a while. Clearly, he meant "take a break from playing, but keep paying us". Which is what I have to do in order to keep something I earned in-game and spent countless hours and millions of gil on.

If there wasn't a constant threat of punishing me for taking a break, I would maybe be more sympathetic, but there is, so I'm not.

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Yeah, that is such counterintuitive logic and the players repeat it as if it were a bible verse. How ever he did say this before the demo system they said would never be put in the game was added.

They altered some of the dungeons like Toto-rak and Copperbell to make them better and made Castrum and Prae fun to play. While not the biggest thing, the fact that they revisit old content to make it better for players isn't something most MMO developers do.

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Originally Posted by Skyborne

Yes.

Fluttering your eyelashes and going "can we pwease get awong? uwu" after slapping pass-agg tags everywhere is really something. Then there's that other thread where the OP feigns "concern" for the devs' well-being, then turns out to be unhinged harasser himself. I am always wary of someone who tries to present themselves as being nice and kind and morally pure.

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Right? The sheer audacity of this person to be trying to lecture others on civility.

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Originally Posted by Ryaz

They altered some of the dungeons like Toto-rak and Copperbell to make them better and made Castrum and Prae fun to play. While not the biggest thing, the fact that they revisit old content to make it better for players isn't something most MMO developers do.

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From what I've seen, it's actually pretty standard for MMO's to go back and tweak the starter and/or levelling experience for newer players.

FFXI did it. WoW did it. ESO did it. GW2 did it. Lost Ark did it.

They're just the ones I played, but I think it's a safe bet that others followed a similar trajectory.

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Originally Posted by Feron

The only thing they care about is my money, otherwise they wouldn't vaporize my house if I choose to do what the developer says we should all do, and "take a break" for a while.

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Don't forget "respects your time". Thanks I'm homeless now Yoshi P!

I still enjoy the game so very much, but yeah, there are some things that SE should look at their game. Of course, there's a mob mentality of things in every community really, so I pretty much stay out of such things because such groups tend to force their views on others and shame them if they don't conform. At the end of the day, it's a game, and no game is ever perfect. The hate is indeed unwarranted, but that's how mobs work really. I don't hate the game, and I love playing it every single time, but at the same time, SE should look at the feedback seriously and try to fix them in the future. Of course, a lot of people here are pissed off because of what happened to their houses mostly which I don't blame since they spent countless hours to buy them just for the company to yank them out of their hands is such a dick move on their end.

As for Hrothgars, well, it is also bad, but I don't care much because I don't have a hrothgar character which I'll do once they fixed the race.

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Originally Posted by Feron

The FFXIV devs (and SE in general) are not my friends. They don't know me and they don't really care about me (and this goes doubly since I'm in NA and not JP).

They are a vendor and I am a customer. The only thing they care about is my money, otherwise they wouldn't vaporize my house if I choose to do what the developer says we should all do, and "take a break" for a while. Clearly, he meant "take a break from playing, but keep paying us". Which is what I have to do in order to keep something I earned in-game and spent countless hours and millions of gil on.

If there wasn't a constant threat of punishing me for taking a break, I would maybe be more sympathetic, but there is, so I'm not.

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Welcome to the real world. No company is ever your friend. Just admit that companies exist for one reason; to make money.

There is no reason for personal attacks, if you disagree with someone's opinion, tell them why!

I agree with the OP, criticism is fine, but the personal attacks and threats need to stop.

as far as personally: my reactions/posts/threads have grown sourer over the years of being beaten down and ignored in my main point of interface for the game (healer, more specifically scholar, with sage as a sad rebound), and my all-time favorite class across the series (blue mage) being made into the most insulting monkey's paw non-option that it drives me to simultaneous anger and depression just thinking of it and it's self-engineered waste of potential.

right now i'm stuck playing WAR and being bitter because there's little else letting me play the (very good) story that is even remotely interesting to me aesthetically.

Idk that Chief. If I started expressing my opinion here, I would make everyone sensitive and get insta banned. So no, you don't have the right to express opinion that isn't welcomed.

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Originally Posted by ZerefDragonslayer

Idk that Chief. If I started expressing my opinion here, I would make everyone sensitive and get insta banned. So no, you don't have the right to express opinion that isn't welcomed.

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It's all about how you express your opinion. If you are insulting others, then you are correct your opinions are not welcome here.

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Originally Posted by Kyu-Momo

The forums these days.... Hm.... I almost miss the troll post spam.... almost.

Let's see....

1) Taking a game so seriously that you insult other people over it
2) Being condescending, insulting, and/or overly aggressive to people who do not share your opinion or dare to be positive/negative

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Yikes. maybe the stress has gotten to people with all that's going on in the world, which, yeah understandable, but jiminy Christmas, everyone here needs to take a step back and relax.

Housing, glamour, job balancing, etc etc needs work, yes, but that doesn't excuse spewing vitriol at each other.
The people on this forum are not your enemies, they are fellow human beings who want to play this game and have fun, just like you do.

Please, try to be kind to each other.

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Lately i'm kind of trigger happy with the black list, if i see a troll topic or someone that pop in different topic being agressive and negative for the sake of it : look like someone i don't want to have any interaction with whatsoever.

And there are enough peoples that i disagree with not to add guys/gals that are unreasonnable and can't control themselves.

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Originally Posted by Laerune

It's all about how you express your opinion. If you are insulting others, then you are correct your opinions are not welcome here.

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Agreed.

It's also about knowing when to take a step back. I mean, I've had discussions here regarding how I don't find the game very easy with players who find the game too easy and had to 'stand down' when it became clear that said players don't see my point of view - discussion which could easily have turned sour. However, they didn't - because for my part at least, I won't push the point further than it needs to go.

It's really about having the insight to know when to stop a disagreement from becoming an argument.

Such is the way of the internet forums.

We're more connected to each other now that at any other point in human history but somewhere along the line we lost the humanity. Its partly due to how we can convince ourselves its fine to be an ass online because its not real people, its just a name on a screen and a little animated character.

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Originally Posted by AziraSyuren

The forums are pretty much a circleshirk of negativity at this point.

Not that it's unwarranted- quite the opposite, a string of awful decisions tends to do that to a game- but at this point it's like pissing into an ocean of piss.

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Yes. It is negativity because currently, there are many mistakes. These mistakes are bad. And so, people are coming to tell devs that these mistakes are bad. Because, if you send them a message saying that, they tell you to please come post it in the forum. And so, people are posting to the forum because they are told to post about it in the forum. And so, it's a lot of negative posts because a lot of people did not like what happened. And so, it's an ocean of piss because a lot of people are unhappy. And so, they came here to say that. Because they were guided to.

And now, they could choose not to say anything! But then, that would be counter-productive, because if something is wrong, the only way to fix it is to point out that it's wrong. And so, every one is pointing out that it is wrong to highlight the severity and hopefully get it fixed. So then, if people do not like to see negativity about their favorite video game at all, then perhaps they should not forum post as much when something is terribly wrong that will cause a flock of people specifically guided here to come here and say things that will subsequently make them unhappy to see. Because, they perceive people explaining the error as negativity that is somehow ruining their day. When they are not trying to ruin peoples day. They are trying to communicate in the fashion that they were instructed to do so. Many thanks!

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Originally Posted by Laerune

It's all about how you express your opinion. If you are insulting others, then you are correct your opinions are not welcome here.

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I have viewed your other posts and you practice what you preach. :) I think the forums and the game should be separated forcibly by EU, AU, and NA. Just like the Japanese are loath to deal with Westerners and their wokeness destroying their games all three regions have different cultures. Well the EU might be more submissive towards certain trends NA is not. As for the Aussies they are some of the biggest complainers and love complaining about Americans and often rant how they need their own stuff but when they got their own stuff they refuse to go there because I think secretly they just love complaining.

I think forcing people into their own servers or forums would help with harmony. As customers in America when a company screws us, we just do not go oh well we sue or complain as we have freedom of speech though certain political parties (Both the major ones) here wants to take that away.

The problem with Final Fantasy forums over the years often you have a mix of cultures that quite don't understand each other.

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Originally Posted by HisShadowX

I have viewed your other posts and you practice what you preach. :)

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That's not creepy at all. . .

I hate to say it but it feels like the WoW forums or at least more like them not saying WoW players are the problem as I myself was one up till stormblood or so when I stopped but it's that same entitled attitude I get there are issues heck I'm the first to say I hated the new hrothgar hair for example but I also wouldn't threaten anyone it's possible to say what is wrong without being a jerk to be fair I suspect it's due to this being the north American forums which means a ton of us from the states and if anyone is entitled we are..sadly

There are a ton of EU (and SA+Oceania) on the English forums actually.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

There are a ton of EU on the English forums actually.

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That's why it needs to be separated like in the game. Regions have different wants and needs and how to communicate as the cultures are very different. Forcing EU and AU players back on their own servers and in their own forums not only would we get better feedback per region, but it would help the housing crisis on NA Regions as it would force AU and EU players to go get houses on their own servers. Also, Square has spent a lot of money on the AU Datacenter that AU players whined about getting yet they refuse to move and go back to their own servers. A nice adjustment to force players into their own regions would help everyone out.

Everyone from the EU won't have to deal with NA Players who they feel are entitled customers and they can take every thing Square Enix gives them and won't have to see many people complaining and they can accept their lot in life as is their way.

Aussies/NZ Players might have a harder time because they need something to complain about and I am sure they will find something to complain about on their own servers.

The Japanese will most likely be happy to get the weebs off their servers.

Win/Win for everyone except the EU and AU players who want to come into NA Forums and Data Centers and tell people to accept their lot in life and being a consumer means nothing and to accept your lot in life as a good serf peasant.

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Originally Posted by HisShadowX

That's why it needs to be separated like in the game. Regions have different wants and needs and how to communicate as the cultures are very different. Forcing EU and AU players back on their own servers and in their own forums not only would we get better feedback per region, but it would help the housing crisis on NA Regions as it would force AU and EU players to go get houses on their own servers. Also, Square has spent a lot of money on the AU Datacenter that AU players whined about getting yet they refuse to move and go back to their own servers. A nice adjustment to force players into their own regions would help everyone out.

Everyone from the EU won't have to deal with NA Players who they feel are entitled customers and they can take every thing Square Enix gives them and won't have to see many people complaining and they can accept their lot in life as is their way.

Aussies/NZ Players might have a harder time because they need something to complain about and I am sure they will find something to complain about on their own servers.

The Japanese will most likely be happy to get the weebs off their servers.

Win/Win for everyone except the EU and AU players who want to come into NA Forums and Data Centers and tell people to accept their lot in life and being a consumer means nothing and to accept your lot in life as a good serf peasant.

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I don't know - seems to me that this would cause more trouble than it would solve in the long-term.

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Originally Posted by Kyu-Momo

The forums these days.... Hm.... I almost miss the troll post spam.... almost.

Let's see....

1) Taking a game so seriously that you insult other people over it
2) Being condescending, insulting, and/or overly aggressive to people who do not share your opinion or dare to be positive/negative
.

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You mean like those tags you put on Kazuya's Thread?

Me thinketh thou doth protest too much!

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Originally Posted by Xavier_Firbold

You mean like those tags you put on Kazuya's Thread?

Me thinketh thou doth protest too much!

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I agree. Kyu is a well-known basher and for them to suddenly stop striking and say "Let's talk about this. You're all being unreasonable." absolutely reeks. Even tried the "Be kind to each other" tag. I swear, this is probably just bait.

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

I don't know - seems to me that this would cause more trouble than it would solve in the long-term.

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The only problems it would cause is the EU and AU players who feel entitled to come on to other regions servers and forums and whine about people accepting their lot in life. They remind us time and time again how they are annoyed by everyone from the NA so now they can get their own walled garden. The problem is they love to come and find someone to whine about and its too boring and static on their own servers so they come over and then have the nerve to complain everyone on the NA is not the same peasant that they are.

They often beg for their own space or to get people removed for not being like them so why not give them the wall garden they whined for so long about getting.

Dear lord what's with the sudden NA/EU/AU hate lmao. Stop being xenophobic, accept that you live in America, on the internet, and that you have to mingle with other cultures and even other Americans. :P

They can't be kind to each other. This forum is filled with the type - "If you don't agree with me then you are against me".

This is what you get with an entire generation being raised with safe spaces and crying closets combined with having less consequences for their increasingly toxic nature. I also love the Mike Tyson quote: "Social media made you all way too comfortable for disrespecting people and not getting punched in the mouth for it."