Request for Better Dev Communication Regarding Job Balancing and Adjustments

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Originally Posted by Chasingstars

The best you can do is submit your feedback to the devs in a polite manner. Then they will silently look at the feedback given, consult their peers about it, and brainstorm what to do with that information and whether its actually worthwhile.

At this point in time the devs do read and care. The more barbed the discussions get, the less they are likely to listen. Simple as.

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I don't know how many times this has to be proven false. They outright claim ignorance of seeing no feedback on HIGHLY discussed topics both on the official forums and outside of the forums. See: DRK. They deliberately dodge questions by saying "Just play ultimate lol" when asked about Healers spamming 1 button to do damage. Tone policing serves literally no purpose. Especially when it's been extremely tame in the vast vast vast majority of discussion. I think most game designers can only dream they had the amicable feedback that our community gives the FFXIV team as a whole.

I just want to know why they're removing 1 button from samurai because of "button bloat" but ninja got 3 new buttons this expac. I'm on controller and I can't even fit bloodbath+second wind on my bars now. Though I'm hoping the controller changes that didn't get shown off at the LL will mitigate this.

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Originally Posted by SeaJae

I don't know how many times this has to be proven false. They outright claim ignorance of seeing no feedback on HIGHLY discussed topics both on the official forums and outside of the forums. See: DRK. They deliberately dodge questions by saying "Just play ultimate lol" when asked about Healers spamming 1 button to do damage. Tone policing serves literally no purpose, especially when it's been extremely tame in the vast vast vast majority of discussion.

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Thats right, we must show them how angry we are.

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Originally Posted by SeaJae

I don't know how many times this has to be proven false. They outright claim ignorance of seeing no feedback on HIGHLY discussed topics both on the official forums and outside of the forums. See: DRK. They deliberately dodge questions by saying "Just play ultimate lol" when asked about Healers spamming 1 button to do damage. Tone policing serves literally no purpose, especially when it's been extremely tame in the vast vast vast majority of discussion.

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The road to thinking antagonizing the devs is just the same road as wow players asking a dev to go get hit by a bus when it came to a shaman feedback thread. Not very constructive.

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Originally Posted by Whalaqee

The road to thinking antagonizing the devs is just the same road as wow players asking a dev to go get hit by a bus when it came to a shaman feedback thread. Not very constructive.

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yet unlike that, you have hundreds of civilized post containing feedbacks and offer suggestions to fix issues, but all of that ignored cause they are not dps related so its fine? so you think it was ok to ignore such issues?

ignoring those issues for years, telling the communities we ignore feedback and u think it will be ok and civil if u simply said 'we dont care what you said, suffer a full expansion with the bugs ignored' but in a nice tone will tone down the rage?

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Originally Posted by CrimsonGunner

yet unlike that, you have hundreds of civilized post containing feedbacks and offer suggestions to fix issues, but all of that ignored cause they are not dps related so its fine? so you think it was ok to ignore such issues?

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I am simply saying that its not an excuse to behave in such a manner. Its a quick road to burning bridges and severing communication. I seen this happen in the wow forums.

Going to be serious here. The thing about giving out criticism is to not go to either extreme. We cant sugercoat our feedback or else the devs wont take us seriously but we also cant blurt out obscenities or harass them for changes because that toxic negativity will overshadow the genuine concerns being made. It helps nobody.

Just cut the bs, be flat out stern with the problems you have and get like minded individuals to help spread the word around, especially on official media outlets for FFXIV such as their twitter.

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Originally Posted by Whalaqee

The road to thinking antagonizing the devs is just the same road as wow players asking a dev to go get hit by a bus when it came to a shaman feedback thread. Not very constructive.

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No where did I advocate for antagonizing the devs. My post simply said that that when it comes to many issues, it is clear they aren't looking hard enough at feedback given, even in their own backyard of the official forums. And, that tone policing an extremely amicable avenue of feedback being given, especially here, only serves to stifle criticism. Also, I believe that road you pulled out of an extreme outlier is named the "Slippery Slope Fallacy Blvd."

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Originally Posted by Whalaqee

I am simply saying that its not an excuse to behave in such a manner. Its a quick road to burning bridges and severing communication. I seen this happen in the wow forums.

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i am quite mad at them too and i am not going to encourage such crazy actions but im not surprised at how thing is slowly turning.
any burned bridge is direct results of the devs way of ignoring the players.
hrotager haircuts....., healers issues left ignored....., drk LD that only now being address and it still questionable how....., doing changes no one asked for( mug,TA and kaiten).

any resentment is right now a direct results of ignored feedback and that is on the devs and mods not addressing issues.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Going to be serious here. The thing about giving out criticism is to not go to either extreme. We cant sugercoat our feedback or else the devs wont take us seriously but we also cant blurt out obscenities or harass them for changes because that toxic negativity will overshadow the genuine concerns being made. It helps nobody.

Just cut the bs, be flat out stern with the problems you have and get like minded individuals to help spread the word around, especially on official media outlets for FFXIV such as their twitter.

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This post here is the proper way to go about sending feedback. It is fine to state what a problem is, lacing it in sugar or venom however ruins the feedback.

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Originally Posted by Chasingstars

The best you can do is submit your feedback to the devs in a polite manner. Then they will silently look at the feedback given, consult their peers about it, and brainstorm what to do with that information and whether its actually worthwhile.

At this point in time the devs do read and care. The more barbed the discussions get, the less they are likely to listen. Simple as.

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We've been doing it my guy

For over 2 years healers have been giving feedback and complaints about their design and look where we are...

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Originally Posted by Whalaqee

This post here is the proper way to go about sending feedback. It is fine to state what a problem is, lacing it in sugar or venom however ruins the feedback.

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see previous post, tell me where healers got their issues addressed, did hrotager and vierra no longer need fantasia to change hair? did smn got more egi-glam, and the races new haircuts are the same quality haircuts for the other races?

nope but giving a 5 min explanation about 2b leggings and how it effects your behind is legit instead of answering about feedbacks.

Competition and player retation isn't a priority for them anymore, they don't lose anything by ignoring players at this point.

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Originally Posted by CrimsonGunner

see previous post, tell me where healers got their issues addressed, did hrotager and vierra no longer need fantasia to change hair? did smn got more egi-glam, and the races new haircuts are the same quality haircuts for the other races?

nope but giving a 5 min explanation about 2b leggings and how it effects your behind is legit instead of answering about feedbacks.

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Here are some sample examples:

I think the new hairstyles for hrothgar look bad because the ears are now strangely missing. Please try to find a way to incorporate the ears and make it more aesthetically pleasing. (Normal feedback)
While I don't like the new hairstyles for hrothgar, I am sure it was very hard for them to get it to work and they probably didn't have much time. (Sugarcoated-laced feedback)
The devs clearly don't listen to us, those hairstyles are atrocious, how could they incompetntly think this was a good idea? (Venom-laced feedback)

I pick the first version, normal feedback. I acknowledge the devs might not read it, that they might read it but dismiss, or even read it and try to find a solution. I did my due diligence and gave them feedback using the in-game support desk and leaving a suggestion.

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Originally Posted by Whalaqee

Here are some sample examples:

I think the new hairstyles for hrothgar look bad because the ears are now strangely missing. Please try to find a way to incorporate the ears and make it more aesthetically pleasing. (Normal feedback)
While I don't like the new hairstyles for hrothgar, I am sure it was very hard for them to get it to work and they probably didn't have much time. (Sugarcoated-laced feedback)
The devs clearly don't listen to us, those hairstyles are atrocious, how could they incompetntly think this was a good idea? (Venom-laced feedback)

I pick the first version, normal feedback. I acknowledge the devs might not read it, that they might read it but dismiss, or even read it and try to find a solution. I did my due diligence and gave them feedback using the in-game support desk and leaving a suggestion.

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and they told you "it was ignored and forgotten" and now that issue will continue the entire expansion and will never be address enjoy.

if this game was a free mmo, it might be tolerable but we pay money for it, it might have been ok if it was a small indi company with little employees and this is the only game in their income but its not and you should have huge teams handling the game especially teams in charge of modeling and you have way way way better haircuts that fit models that came out to other races throughout the year and the haircuts they release is already in the game existing for everyone but those races only to come out implemented without their ears for.....reasons.

not excusable, ppl rage cause they promised those haircuts an expansion ago meaning 4 years left ignored and was requested and those haircuts actually got released after those races came out.....
as i said every civil way was said and ignored and that is how they show the answer for the posts that were civil so(those haircuts are 4 years in development).... they reap what they sowed.

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Originally Posted by CrimsonGunner

and they told you "it was ignored and forgotten" and now that issue will continue the entire expansion and will never be address enjoy.

if this game was a free mmo, it might be tolerable but we pay money for it, it might have been ok if it was a small indi company with little employees and this is the only game in their income but its not and you should have huge teams handling the game especially teams in charge of modeling and you have way way way better haircuts that fit models that came out to other races throughout the year and the haircuts they release is already in the game existing for everyone but those races only to come out implemented without their ears for.....reasons , not excusable.

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Indeed, its not excusable that the races now lack ears with these hairstyles. I am saying you just submit your feedback in a civil manner and be done.

We can run round and round in circles if you would like on this topic, but it is simply a waste of time and energy to expend.

Have a wonderful rest of your day ♥

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Originally Posted by Whalaqee

Indeed, its not excusable that the races now lack ears with these hairstyles. I am saying you just submit your feedback in a civil manner and be done.

We can run round and round in circles if you would like on this topic, but it is simply a waste of time and energy to expend.

Have a wonderful rest of your day ♥

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yep agree to disagree, and be done.
same to you.

I don’t understand how some people don’t understand we have been respectful, we have been straightforward. For Six.Years. Nothing has been done in regards to healers, in fact they have gotten worse each expansion. The devs have essentially ignored us for 6 years, but then we finally get some acknowledgement by Yoshi P and….we are told if we want engaging gameplay for healers to just go play Ultimate. The lead dev just basically told healers who are asking for more engagement to f off. And you expect people to just swallow that crap and smile and pretend like they’re still listening and open to feedback? Please.

Live letters used to contain more thorough discussions about job changes. They weren't exhaustive; you only have so much time to go through things. But they used to contain more transparency with respect to balancing changes.

Then Stormblood came, and with it Healing Lilies.

We told them what a horrible idea lilies were. There were threads breaking down their effects, how they'd (not) effect gameplay, how they encouraged playing WHM in an unskilled and backward way, a whole treasure trove of feedback.

What we got in return was "nah just wait until 4.0 drops and try it out, you'll see what it's really like" followed by "we are no longer announcing changes ahead of time because players get mad over nothing".

It took an ENTIRE EXPANSION of them telling the players they were crazy for disliking the obviously asstastic lilies, and I'm still not convinced they actually understand what was terrible about them. They don't play healers. They don't care about the role outside it being girlfriend RP mode. They not only ignore feedback on the role, but they dismiss it whenever they're forced to face it. The reason they don't communicate too much about job balance changes is because they know healers are going to get pissed every time they change something, and cannot bring themselves to understand that the healers get pissed because they have a poor grasp of how healers play, not because healers are just kuh-raaaaaazy and get mad about everything.

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Originally Posted by CrimsonGunner

where was that when healers gave their feedbacks and got ignored in every possible way or did they read feedback and the answer they gave healers is whm who suffer from mp issues have thin air, his core mp management skill, nerfed and never adjust his high mp cost due to that change cause that makes it "better"?

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Imagine indirectly nerfing cure 3 by nerfing thin air because you added a oGCD to effectively replace cure 3 spam but it's a trash tier skill so you have to buff it later and then you increase the range of cure 3 thinking that it would somehow increase the viability of it.

Thinking Emoji.