So what is the new "dungeon" thing we getting?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Novae

1-4 players, which means, no holy trinity needed, which means, healers being even more useless.
I'm not excited at all.

---

Healers, useless? Not at all. Warriors are still quite useful in dungeons.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

We weren't given a lot of details but I think they will be brand new dungeons entirely and that there will be 3 of them by the end of the expansion.

You can do them with 1-4 players like POTD and the difficulty is scalable. It seems a response to people's request for what wow has with mythic+.

Although it's possible it could just be "unreal" and altered versions of old dungeons, this would probably have been clarified if it was.

---

M+ is the worst thing in WoW introduced to date if people want that they should go back to WoW and not demand it in this game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Juun

M+ is the worst thing in WoW introduced to date if people want that they should go back to WoW and not demand it in this game.

---

THEY SAID THE THING! lol. What a horrible take.

Nothing wrong with a variety of content for different people - not everyone likes the same stuff and that’s fine.

I don’t think they will be M+ difficulty - not sure SE wants the potential resulting toxicity from M+ difficulty and be overwhelmed with reports from people. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thoosa

I don’t think they will be M+ difficulty - not sure SE wants the potential resulting toxicity from M+ difficulty and be overwhelmed with reports from people. :)

---

The only thing toxic about M+ was its surrounding systems (Great Vault, only be able to enter it through attunement items, etc.). There's nothing toxic about with having optional additional mechanics or finer shades of difficulty than just normal, extreme, savage, and ultimate.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Absimiliard

Healers, useless? Not at all. Warriors are still quite useful in dungeons.

---

Always the correct answer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Juun

M+ is the worst thing in WoW introduced to date if people want that they should go back to WoW and not demand it in this game.

---

WoW Refugees: WoW Sucks! WoW is Terrible! We Hate WoW!

Also WoW Refugees: Please make FFXIV more like WoW.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Conundrum

WoW Refugees: WoW Sucks! WoW is Terrible! We Hate WoW!

Also WoW Refugees: Please make FFXIV more like WoW.

---

WoW Refugees: "I dislike convoluted progression systems with forced grind loops that aren't intrinsically entertaining to me (and, as it happens, most players). I enjoy having plenty of options for different styles of content at decent polish and breadth of difficulty so that there's, as near as possible, something for everyone."
Also WoW Refugees: "I'd like to more options for different styles of content at decent polish and breadth of difficulty so that there's, as near as possible, something for everyone; certain WoW systems could be referenced as good examples of low-cost means of providing this if removed from their convoluted progression systems with forced grind loops that aren't intrinsically entertaining to me (and, as it happens, most players)."

The poster above: Whhaaaat? Oh, the hypocrisy!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

WoW Refugees: "I dislike convoluted progression systems with forced grind loops that aren't intrinsically entertaining to me (and, as it happens, most players). I enjoy having plenty of options for different styles of content at decent polish and breadth of difficulty so that there's, as near as possible, something for everyone."
Also WoW Refugees: "I'd like to more options for different styles of content at decent polish and breadth of difficulty so that there's, as near as possible, something for everyone; certain WoW systems could be referenced as good examples of low-cost means of providing this if removed from their convoluted progression systems with forced grind loops that aren't intrinsically entertaining to me (and, as it happens, most players)."

The poster above: Whhaaaat? Oh, the hypocrisy!!!

---

No, most of them want M+ and "MOAR RAIDS" at the expense of that "damned dirty casual" content. They aren't fooling people when they try dressing it up and pretending that isn't what they're pushing for, they want to make it more like WoW by making it an endgame raider epeen focused game.

If they want to play FFXIV as it is they are welcome...if they want to try to shove FFXIV fans out and make it into a WoW 2.0 they can take a long walk off of a short pier. It's obvious most want the latter.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LeonKeyh

A lot of people are linking the "Variable difficulty" with the number of players but I took that as a different aspect.

---

It's because they said exactly that in the Live Letter. If you're going off the slide or off an article, watch the Live Letter instead. They explain they are dungeons where the difficulty scales based on number of people.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

All we know so far is they're called Criterion dungeons, there are 3 mentioned so far, and the difficulty scales with the number of players.

I remember back in EQII where the adventure pack for the Splitpaw Saga had instances that would do this. It was quite enjoyable. Hopefully there's a story that goes along with it. And I'm curious what the rewards will be. I hope they don't punish anyone who goes in solo and just make the instance give the same regardless of number of players.

---

EQ1 had something similar. Adventures of Norrath (Dungeons of Norrath?). I think that also scaled with the party. But, Splitpaw is a great example. Content that gives players options and optional rewards (glam, titles, etc) seems like a good thing to me.

For the most part, SE gives us a multitude of ways to play this game. Another option isn't a bad thing. I loved playing HoH and PotD as a duo. However, there was no benefit of running as a duo in terms of content scaling. I've played other MMOs that scale content to the number of players (within reason, not current content raids). It makes the game more accessible to all.