More Content, Less Narrative

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Originally Posted by Shironeko_Narunyan

Yes, I do. Mogstation isn't P2W. It's either "pay for cosmetics" or "pay to lose out".

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Items that can be purchased for real currency that provide an advantage in the game (i.e. job & story skips which allow for players to skip content otherwise unavoidable, also known as "the grind") is considered P2W. Just making that clear.

Cosmetics are not, the boosts definitely are. It's no different from purchasing packs in mobile games that give you extra items that allow you to progress faster than F2P players. Saying this as a whale.

Whether or not you view people using them as losing out is kind of irrelevant at the end of the day. People have the same right to play the game however they like as you do and shouldn't be put down or be viewed as less than for that. I love the story in FF but absolutely don't blame anyone who play MMOs for other reasons for picking the option that works best for them. At the end of the day, what does it actually affect yours or anyone's life what someone else does with their time?

i like it just the way it is. thats one of the things i have always liked about the final fantasy games is it being story driven. there is plenty of content to do outside of the story if thats what you want.

I'm fairly certain that the OP is the one who wants open world pvp. Mostly so if they ever got their knickers in a twist they could be allowed to get some form of revenge. Which again isn't the main focus of the game and tends to be a minority.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

I'm fairly certain that the OP is the one who wants open world pvp. Mostly so if they ever got their knickers in a twist they could be allowed to get some form of revenge. Which again isn't the main focus of the game and tends to be a minority.

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People already do that in the form of reports, and trying to get others permabanned.

Yeah, let's do less narrative. That definitely won't torpedo the game or anything.

No, this isn't wow.

"Less story for Final Fantasy game plz!"

??? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

Using EW as an example, its more watching cutscenes than playing. I am fine with a story, its nice even but when that gets in the way of gameplay then it chaffs something fierce. Going forward, instead of epic narratives that require dozens of hours of cutscenes why don't they give us simple stories with alot more gameplay and less just watching/reading.

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The first part of a new expansion ffxiv is always the meatiest. I agree that EW being a tad much with cutscenes but we were warned that it would be for very obvious reasons. Recall that post-expansion, we get our stories in small doses, typically being able to complete those msqs in an hour or so. As such, I don't expect future releases to be this heavy, unless it's to tie major events like EW did. With that said, I would very much like to either have both or if not possible, rather retain more narrative when new expansion hits, because I trust the predictable nature of ffxiv to release gameplay content evenly after is done.

https://www.liveabout.com/thmb/N4BmG...00378ab743.jpg

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

People already do that in the form of reports, and trying to get others permabanned.

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https://i.pinimg.com/564x/07/55/24/0...1eff45d730.jpg

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

Items that can be purchased for real currency that provide an advantage in the game (i.e. job & story skips which allow for players to skip content otherwise unavoidable, also known as "the grind") is considered P2W. Just making that clear.

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P2W has to do with power. There's no power benefit you get from the level/MSQ boost. In addition, it only gets you to level 80.

There's a reason people call this game an RPGMMO instead of an MMORPG.

Hint: The story is everything.

I rather have both. Im all in for main scenario quest story lines

Controversial opinion here; More Content, same amount of Narrative

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Originally Posted by EnigmaticDodo

Controversial opinion here; More Content, same amount of Narrative

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Other controversial opinion here; Hi uh, so Im still not finished with beast tribes, relics, Bozja/Eureka, leveling my jobs, getting best gear for all my jobs, getting wanted glams, furnishing my perfect apartment, FATE grinds, card collecting, mount farms etc I think this game already has enough content for an MMO that strives to not waste your time but I still want to be able to get all or at least most of these things off my checklist sometime in the reasonable future. I only play this game for a couple of hours and part of the reason why I enjoy FFXIV is because not only are the "retention" content all optional but that I can still get to my wanted goals for satisfying my completionist self.

Although I'm all for more content regardless, just think its silly to think that you have literally nothing to do in FFXIV's endgame. Unless everybody already completed everything I listed here which I say congrats, remember how the devs said they designed this game NOT to have you play it 24/7 seven days a week? Yeah its because its ok to get your fill and play other games. MMO addiction isnt a good thing.

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Originally Posted by Imoye

P2W has to do with power. There's no power benefit you get from the level/MSQ boost. In addition, it only gets you to level 80.

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A level boost 80 character is getting the crap covered end of a stick when compared to character who went 1 to 80

Why are people so aggressive when one suggest to improve the game in ways that would massive benefit. More raid content (normal, savage, and ultimate) would be a boon and have more replay value than watching an hour long block of cutscenes. Having more difficulties with more varied gear would be a boon more so than an hour long block of cutscenes. Having PvP be a viable option to gear up, and have a great amount of rewards would be a boon greater than an hour long block of cutscenes. Having a 24 man on launch, or the relic available would be better than a narrative most do once.

Because the raid content would suffer without that story to underpin it, as I explained. If they don't care about the story, then what do the developers have to inspire the raid content to be more than a skeleton in a white room?

The story helps increase our excitement to fight these bosses and to continue playing the game. When there is a new patch or expansion, we are excited for the next chapter in the story. When we unlock these bosses, we are excited to fight them because we have all of the context and reason behind why we are fighting them and why the boss is so cool.

No. Hard NO.

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Originally Posted by sharknado

New World wanted to be survival PvP MMO and players quickly told the devs they don't want PvP so it was made completely optional...

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Well, i can't speak for other people, but i can say that starting a game, walking out of a city and getting gangraped by a group of overpowered open world PvP enthusiasts hasn't ever been enjoyable to me, especially since they can stay on your ass for hours on end if you have a specific place where you need to accomplish something, so you're stuck.

So, as long as it's not open world PvP, who cares? Still a niche, so i don't know how much worth PvP would have in any form. PvP should stay in games that focus exclusively on PvP where it belongs.

Telling FF14 to stop doing iconic narrative is like telling French people to demolish their iconic Eiffel Tower. This would do more harm than good.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

pvp should be the center piece going forward.

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https://c.tenor.com/xIVna3QzuUIAAAAC...w-about-no.gif

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

Why are people so aggressive when one suggest to improve the game in ways that would massive benefit. More raid content (normal, savage, and ultimate) would be a boon and have more replay value than watching an hour long block of cutscenes. Having more difficulties with more varied gear would be a boon more so than an hour long block of cutscenes. Having PvP be a viable option to gear up, and have a great amount of rewards would be a boon greater than an hour long block of cutscenes. Having a 24 man on launch, or the relic available would be better than a narrative most do once.

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how is it "aggressive" to say that what got the game here is not what is being suggested. most people have just rejected something which for the game and the direction, is rather ridiculous. pvp centric? thats laughable, pvp in FFxiv is an afterthought, this is about as far as you can get from a pvp centric game and still have pvp in it. if people want pvp, there are other games built around it, with open world pvp in mind, that do it a thousand times better, so could always go play those games.

a majority of people are not here for the pvp.
a majority are not likely here for the raids
a lot of people in end game are likely more interested in a good glam than "varied gear"

the narrative is what the game is known for, in fact most of the Final Fantasy series is. changing that massively is like Ford deciding it could make more money making tricycles for children... it wouldnt work.

PvP is not the only things I have discussed in this thread, yet that seems to be all the majority are responding to. Please respond to the whole, not one facet.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

PvP is not the only things I have discussed in this thread, yet that seems to be all the majority are responding to. Please respond to the whole, not one facet.

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Personally I feel we have plenty of content. The beginning of an expansion is always light. Once we get into further patches, things will ramp up. By the end of ShB, I found it bothersome that I needed to do all three of the 24-man dungeons each week, plus E12! And imagine if I did Savage and Ultimates as well!

PvP is horrible and should just be taken out all together. The only time I did it, I had to be incentivized to do it with Garo. And open world PvP? Whoever invented that should die in a fire. Nothing like going on a fun little mining trip and getting ganked by someone that I probably made angry or just wants to get their lulz on or thinks they can secure the market of a resource! Plus the resources they'd have to put in to make it work in this game...there's a reason why there's a different skill set for PvP than open world. And before you say "they can toggle it on or off," that's yet another system that needs to be put in the game that will take time away from stuff that's actually fun.

The 24-man raids were made to be gear catch-ups. There's no reason to have them come in at the same time as a new 8-man raid. And because the 24-man raids were specifically designed to be easy so that a few people can be dumb and you'll be fine, there's not really a reason to put gear comparable to the 8-mans in it.

You know what I'd like? I'd like them to give us back three dungeons a patch. But I accept that's not possible so that they can fine tune stuff like raids, stuff like Bozja and Eureka, and more stuff just like that! And the only reason I want that is so we can have variety in Expert roulette!

I don't want my story being downgraded because people want the dev team to add everything and two kitchen sinks into each patch. I need my story to keep me happy, let me think about how it's going, and all that. The quests are really engaging, especially the ones added in EW that are giving us a lot of info about the world!

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Originally Posted by Violyre

Personally I feel we have plenty of content. The beginning of an expansion is always light.

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From my perspective, it's not light. I need to farm minions from each dungeon (with a 2% drop chance), level every class to 90, farm 7538 fates for the mount and wings, farm 1,000 S ranks and 2,000 A ranks for the mount, 99 of 2 extreme trials, keep doing savage, get all the new triple triad cards and do the remaining role quests and side quests that I didn't already finish.

It's not very light for me, so it depends on if you are interested in all of these things or not.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

From my perspective, it's not light. I need to farm minions from each dungeon (with a 2% drop chance), level every class to 90 for a mount, farm 7538 fates for the mount and wings, farm 1,000 S ranks and 2,000 A ranks for the mount, 99 of 2 extreme trials, keep doing savage, get all the new triple triad cards and do the remaining role quests and side quests that I didn't already finish.

It's not very light for me, so it depends on if you are interested in all of these things or not.

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Very true! Everyone enjoys different content. While I'm not likely to work towards some of the endgame oriented stuff or the hunt stuff, if that's you, go for it. Even PvP. I may not like it, but some people do so go wild. How much content is available is based on what you personally want.

I was mostly just addressing the primary comments of the original poster.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

Because the raid content would suffer without that story to underpin it, as I explained. If they don't care about the story, then what do the developers have to inspire the raid content to be more than a skeleton in a white room?

The story helps increase our excitement to fight these bosses and to continue playing the game. When there is a new patch or expansion, we are excited for the next chapter in the story. When we unlock these bosses, we are excited to fight them because we have all of the context and reason behind why we are fighting them and why the boss is so cool.

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MFW "raid content would suffer without that story to underpin it"

Yeah, which is why Asphodelos had such a great story that wasn't in any way rushed and low quality right?

This game's problem is that ONLY the MSQ matters, as we get into ShB and EW.

That's why even side stories are now becoming trash, Nier raid story sucks, Asphodelos raid story sucks. Eden story was so bland and sparse that some floors had like maybe 10 seconds of dialogue before you unlocked it. Bozja was the only side content that had a decent story last expansion that was fleshed out, meaty, and engaging. But then they decided not to continue with it this expansion ROFL.

Not to mention there's basically no story for Ishgardian Restoration, no story for Heaven-on High, etc., so like LMAO we never even had proper worldbuilding for half the side content in this game. We don't even have job stories now. Literally don't have lore for like half of our abilities on jobs now. Remember when Astrologian had a lore for every single card?

MFW "x content would suffer without that story to underpin it"

MFW people don't notice that we're getting LESS story for side content too!

I love the lore in this game but people are seriously deluded if they think they actually care that much about worldbuilding for side content nowadays. A team focused on worldbuilding would not have put out whatever garbage the Nier raid was.

Remember when job quests actually fleshed out significant parts of the lore and world? Like Monk quests giving you a history lesson on Sil'dih? Yeah role quests in EW are just for players to "uwu we stan Aymeric! XD" now. Barely any lore, barely any character development (other than the Fordola arc), barely any worldbuilding.

Let's not labor under the delusion that the story is great outside the MSQ in ShB and EW. If you are actually a lore/worldbuilding nerd you would have noticed that this entire game is starting to cater towards the true casuals - the people who literally only do the MSQ and nothing else. We're focusing on fan service (like 80% of the Scions) over meaningful character development and meaningful worldbuilding that makes the world feel alive. Think of how much lore there was in ARR in every nook and cranny of each zone, each quest, and each piece of side content, and compare that to ShB/EW.

Right now the Asphodelos raid is literally basically a raid without context, a skeleton in a white room. The story underpinning it is so uninteresting, so badly fleshed out it would've been better if they just released it without a story.

I'll actually buy the argument that "the raid content would suffer without that story to underpin it" if raids actually have story equal to the level of Bozja's storyline lmao.

This entire game is being dumbed and stripped down, whether it's story, raids, PvP, glamours, crafting/gathering, ... all for the purpose of creating what is genuinely an awesome MSQ experience, but that thing literally only lasts for days out of 2.5 years of an expansion life cycle.

If people disagree can anyone even explain who the hell Hesperos is in more than 200 words, other than the fact that he is the master of Asphodelos and for some reason went insane/delusional? Even Twintania had more lore than Hesperos. That Bellular vid also seriously pissed me off, literally squeezing out lore by looking at the choice of Greek words to try to justify that Asphodelos' lore is deep. That's how desperate we are for finding meaningful worldbuilding these days. But let's also not delude ourselves into thinking that FF14's 8-man raids ever had great worldbuilding outside of Bahamut. Coils are literally the ONLY raid series which had any semblance of a story and worldbuilding. Omega raid series was literally a fan service fiesta. I honestly don't even know how anyone can say "the raid content would suffer without that story to underpin it" seriously with a straight face when Omega exists.

I honestly hate that there are so many new players who think whatever worldbuilding we have is deep these days when it has just been on a decline in everything outside of the MSQ.

Rant over.

The problem isn't necessarily the amount of story content, but the lack of gameplay content. Rather, engaging gameplay content. Even collectibles, and glamour options are getting more sparse as time goes on.

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Originally Posted by Skiros

That's why even side stories are now becoming trash, Nier raid story sucks, Asphodelos raid story sucks. Eden story was so bland and sparse that some floors had like maybe 10 seconds of dialogue before you unlocked it. Bozja was the only side content that had a decent story last expansion that was fleshed out, meaty, and engaging. But then they decided not to continue with it this expansion ROFL.

Not to mention there's basically no story for Ishgardian Restoration

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Nier was a good story, it just didn't fit well with FFXIV lore and it was intentionally weird so that only Nier fans were likely to connect with it and the end ruined it by giving you a chore to do every week. Asphodelos remains to be seen but I am interested to see what comes next. I thought that Eden's was great. The Firmament has lots of story because it unlocks loads and loads of sidequest chains that continue previous sidequests you did in the past, where people you previously met are now being homed. There are also the stories of Charlemend and Ehll Tou.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

Nier was a good story, it just didn't fit well with FFXIV lore and it was intentionally weird so that only Nier fans were likely to connect with it and the end ruined it by giving you a chore to do every week. Asphodelos remains to be seen but I am interested to see what comes next. I thought that Eden's was great. The Firmament has lots of story because it unlocks loads and loads of sidequest chains that continue previous sidequests you did in the past, where people you previously met are now being homed. There are also the stories of Charlemend and Ehll Tou.

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You lost me at "Nier was a good story". It was bad even if you played Drakengard and Nier. I guess the subpar worldbuilding and story quality doesn't matter since fans will just lap it up like dogs anyways.

As long as the content is self contained and not canon or just a like Sidecontent, there is no problem if it has less narrative HOH and PotD had minimal impact on lore and unless you dug in the story was minimal.

Same with Eureka, minimal story unless you really wanted more but content, i know a lot of ppl will go "boohoo QQ eureka bad" but i still had my fun.

Bozja WAS a lot more connected, but all the cool stuff happened in documents and now that we know the empire is fully fallen we know we will never get to really see it. Gabranth was build up in Bozja and fully resolved in Documents ... was he not? I guess they were "rushed" and had to cancel a 3rd zone or something seeing we also skipped the 2nd to last Relic step. Then again how can one be rushed if you add Bozja so late into ShB.

Tl:dr: as long as its side content I don't mind if its a bit thin on lore/text/story if its fun to play, MSQ you just gotta keep story focused though

Shocked this wasn't a Skiros thread.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

Then why not just make it a movie instead of a game if story is the only thing that matters?

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Why play a story focused game then complain there's too much story?

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Originally Posted by Voidedge_Ragna

As long as the content is self contained and not canon or just a like Sidecontent, there is no problem if it has less narrative HOH and PotD had minimal impact on lore and unless you dug in the story was minimal.

Same with Eureka, minimal story unless you really wanted more but content, i know a lot of ppl will go "boohoo QQ eureka bad" but i still had my fun.

Bozja WAS a lot more connected, but all the cool stuff happened in documents and now that we know the empire is fully fallen we know we will never get to really see it. Gabranth was build up in Bozja and fully resolved in Documents ... was he not? I guess they were "rushed" and had to cancel a 3rd zone or something seeing we also skipped the 2nd to last Relic step. Then again how can one be rushed if you add Bozja so late into ShB.

Tl:dr: as long as its side content I don't mind if its a bit thin on lore/text/story if its fun to play, MSQ you just gotta keep story focused though

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That's not my point. My point is that FF14 is too barebones for anything other than the MSQ. And that includes the story. People praise this game for immersing the world in the story but it's ironic that even Lost Ark incorporated its deep dungeon (Shadespire) better in the story/world than FF14 did with PotD and HoH.

This game lacks content for EVERYONE once you're done with the MSQ, including people who are invested in the narrative.

I honestly do not comprehend how anyone thinks the story for the raids are fleshed out. I'm sick of waiting for three tiers until the story even gets mildly interesting. Omega and Eden were both only interesting in the last tier. Omega in particular was egregiously bad since two-thirds of the story was fanservice. And it seems that Pandemonium will be the same, where we have to wait until the last tier before we get any story of substance.

If I were to design the story for Eden, I would've revealed Gaia's identity in the first tier. The reason why SE put it all the way in the third tier is because they can't think of anything to do with her identity being a former Ancient/Ascian. We literally did not get any insight as to her struggles with her identity etc. It's bad world building and bad character development.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

I didn't feel like it was that bad. Beats running out to collect 20 more bear asses. At least I could have lunch while watching.

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I haven't collected bear asses in so long I've forgotten what it was like. *nostalgic sigh* Those sure were the days...

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Originally Posted by Shironeko_Narunyan

Yes, I do. Mogstation isn't P2W. It's either "pay for cosmetics" or "pay to lose out".

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Speaking of cosmetics; you look great with that new hair do. It's too bad we didn't cross paths while you were on Atomos, I was looking forward to it. I hope you find a happy new home on Sophia!

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Originally Posted by YukikoKurosawa

Shocked this wasn't a Skiros thread.

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He's turned it into one though.

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Originally Posted by Skiros

I honestly do not comprehend how anyone thinks the story for the raids are fleshed out. I'm sick of waiting for three tiers until the story even gets mildly interesting. Omega and Eden were both only interesting in the last tier.

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It does usually take the three tiers for it to get that interesting, but what we couldn't have had without the MSQ is T1-13, O10, E6, E7, E10, E11 and E12S. Without Crystal Tower we wouldn't have E9. Without the FF franchise stories that created these things, we wouldn't have any of the omega or eden fights. The decision to merge ifrit and garuda is an idea that could only have come about because of the story needing it. Hurricanes happen when heat combines with wind. Heat evaporates water and wind allows it to condensate and produce clouds.

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Originally Posted by Poporito_Popoto

He's turned it into one though.

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He does that...tried accusing me of posting about him because I mentioned Lost Ark.

That boy aint all there...

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

It does usually take the three tiers for it to get that interesting, but what we couldn't have had without the MSQ is T1-13, O10, E6, E7, E10, E11 and E12S. Without Crystal Tower we wouldn't have E9. Without the FF franchise stories that created these things, we wouldn't have any of the omega or eden fights. The decision to merge ifrit and garuda is an idea that could only have come about because of the story needing it. Hurricanes happen when heat combines with wind. Heat evaporates water and wind allows it to condensate and produce clouds.

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A lot of story decisions are made ex-post. Someone comes up with an idea or something cool that they want to put in the raid and they design the story around that. Even the MSQ is designed that way partially.

I don't know how you can really accuse Panda of only having fanservice or no substance yet.

We got more background on Lahabrea and more character work with Erich then is at all normal for a first tier story. Shit. Gaia wasn't even conscious till the second tier of Eden, let alone getting any development.

Frankly the only raid stories I would call straight up bad is Nier, because it makes zero effort to be coherent with XIV's world and maybe Alexander for just not having much charisma or intrigue at all. Everything else ranges from fine to actually fantastic (Coils)