Please Give Support For Solo Savage Raids

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Originally Posted by Maxilor

Create an entire new mode so a few players can solo an old savage fight for a glamour item.

vs

Those same players getting maybe 1 or 2 other players and doing it un-synced.

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Except you literally can't do alphascape v4 savage without at least 6 players. Maybe if y'all would stop quitting I wouldn't have to ask this

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Originally Posted by Xaphire

I can't imagine you even see much of M&F in O12S with 8 90s. You saw very few mechanics at level 80. And part 2 I imagine you'd kill it before Hello World 2. It's easy enough to learn patch and Hello World 1. You actually have to do the mechanics and if you're struggling with it, find some regulars, watch some videos or look at some pictures if necessary and knock it out. Keep trying, you'll get it.

You're either after the mount, or being a glamour hound that can't accept just getting the undyeable version of the same gear or wants the weapon. Keep working at it, you'll get it eventually.

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Sure as soon as I can get nonquitters

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Originally Posted by Vishas

Sure as soon as I can get nonquitters

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Sure - maybe get to level cap and get some more experience with the game's mechanics. I've done this fight in PF - several times - after some wipes and some explanation people would get it and it would get cleared. The common denominator in your issues is you. Either take more charge in directing things and recruiting, or again, as has been suggested, make friends with the better performers in your party finder groups and try to invite them to another night of attempts.

Try scheduling things, pop into a community discord and ask around if people would be willing to help you. There are a number of tools available to help you.

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Originally Posted by Vishas

Except you literally can't do alphascape v4 savage without at least 6 players. Maybe if y'all would stop quitting I wouldn't have to ask this

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I'm sorry you've had quitters but is it not more reasonable to expect you and people like you to keep trying with Party Finder than to expect YoshiP and the dev team to take development time away from new content to revamp a few old fights so they can be solo'd like they never were intended to be?

Just keep trying. You'll get the chest piece, and it will be all the more sweeter for the effort.

I mean, I guess it comes down to "do you want to be able to clear the fight" (in which case my earlier proposed idea about them making outdated dyeable savage gear available for large quantities of the normal raid tokens is irrelevant to what you want) or "do you want the glam from the fight" (in which case said idea is very relevant).

Because I can absolutely see an argument for making the outdated gear more easily obtainable for glamour purposes; it's not remotely relevant stats-wise any longer, so people generally only want it for glam. And since you can easily unsync the fights, it's not like there's any real prestige value in having the gear any longer to be cheapened by people having some other way to obtain it.

And adding the ability to trade (large amounts of) the normal raid tokens for that gear is presumably just a matter of adding another list of trade-in options to a vendor NPC; that's almost certainly an extremely minimal amount of development time that would need to be invested in that feature. Since one assumes the vendor trade-in lists are basically like... the equivalent of an array of some data structure (Item ID, list of currency or items to be traded in along with a quantity for each), you could most likely have an intern do that in a single day without having any schedule impact.

But I just can't see a solid argument for making entirely-new, solo-friendly versions of outdated savage fights; that's a massive amount of work for extremely marginal benefit, and work moreover that requires the combat designers to do... which means they're not working on other combat content design at the time, so directly impacts schedule for other content -- and most likely current content, or content about to be current with an upcoming patch.

Solution: Form a static on your own to do the content. If that doesn't work for you then either accept PF parties are your only option or don't get the items you want.

So warrior only raids? Most classes will never be able to do this anyways, so its not worth the dev effort.

I said the same thing a while ago, everything in this game should have a solo option, as FF14 is not a real MMO along the lines of WoW, no matter how hard you try to deny it.

Everybody is doing the MSQ (the selling factor of the game) for themselves and themselves only.
There is no real ‘open world’ that is the framework for every MMO. It’s small instances connected through loading screens, there is no valid reason or necessity to interact with anyone, as everyone is doing THEIR story anyway, half the people you see is in cutscenes, the other half is interacting with seemingly invisible things. It could even come as a NUISANCE to some people.

Dungeons and even trials that are necessary for progression can already be run with NPC bots, or a matchmaking of random people you’ll never see again, from a pool of half a dozen servers, which basically equals to bots.

There is no reason, at any point in the game, to specifically seek socialization with other players, for any reason that is non-superficial like 3 cat girls admiring each other’s tennis shoes, or doing some super edge “RP”. Because of this, there is NO natural accumulation of friends at ANY stage in the game.

But yet, after having played a single player game with glamoured “bots” around from start to end, they expect you to suddenly have 7 friends.

On the one hand, I want you and so many other people to have the ability to do this kind of content. On the other hand, this feels akin to shaking your fist at the universe and arguing it's not fair that you need other people to build a stone bridge across a canyon.

If I may, I'd like to suggest that you should strive not only to learn the content that you want to beat but also to teach it to those who are willing to learn it. You may find fewer quitters and more people committed to staying and helping. That's how--despite not being a raider--I got my Skyslipper for RP purposes, and I've never been happier.

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Originally Posted by Kandraxx

I said the same thing a while ago, everything in this game should have a solo option, as FF14 is not a real MMO along the lines of WoW, no matter how hard you try to deny it.

Everybody is doing the MSQ (the selling factor of the game) for themselves and themselves only.
There is no real ‘open world’ that is the framework for every MMO. It’s small instances connected through loading screens, there is no valid reason or necessity to interact with anyone, as everyone is doing THEIR story anyway, half the people you see is in cutscenes, the other half is interacting with seemingly invisible things. It could even come as a NUISANCE to some people.

Dungeons and even trials that are necessary for progression can already be run with NPC bots, or a matchmaking of random people you’ll never see again, from a pool of half a dozen servers, which basically equals to bots.

There is no reason, at any point in the game, to specifically seek socialization with other players, for any reason that is non-superficial like 3 cat girls admiring each other’s tennis shoes, or doing some super edge “RP”. Because of this, there is NO natural accumulation of friends at ANY stage in the game.

But yet, after having played a single player game with glamoured “bots” around from start to end, they expect you to suddenly have 7 friends.

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That being said even single player games sometimes have multiplayer aspects that aren't soloable.

Savage raids are just fine being content that can't be easily soloable either due to how much overleveled we aren't yet unsynced or due to mechanics.

They expect that by the time you're considering doing some of the hardest content in game that you'd have made some friends either via just randomly chatting with people or through an FC. That's not too much to ask of people.

I wouldn't say no to the suggestion some have had of adding another means to obtain the glamour items from savages from previous EP's to the game. Such as the aforementioned buy with tons more tomes from the normal mode.

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Originally Posted by Vishas

Except you literally can't do alphascape v4 savage without at least 6 players. Maybe if y'all would stop quitting I wouldn't have to ask this

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It's actually been 3-manned.

Well, the second phase at least. Not sure if they did the first one with 3.

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Originally Posted by AziraSyuren

It's actually been 3-manned.

Well, the second phase at least. Not sure if they did the first one with 3.

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I doubt the 1st phase was done with just 3 but I'm open to the possibility

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Originally Posted by AziraSyuren

It's actually been 3-manned.

Well, the second phase at least. Not sure if they did the first one with 3.

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Unless they were 3 WARs and the 3 other party members died to the Singularity attack I'd imagine it'd probably be difficult. But even then I could picture 2-3 WARs doing just fine. lol Their survivability is second to none.

I like to duo unsynched EX+ a lot, it's fun. I'd be happy if they just removed the raid locks that need minimum 3 players or you can't finish.

Heck, even the Manderville StB fight, I'd like the chains to be reduced rather than at-least 3 people will be chained, release them or they die - which for 2 players is an inescapable hard-doom.

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Originally Posted by CeruleanArc

On the one hand, I want you and so many other people to have the ability to do this kind of content. On the other hand, this feels akin to shaking your fist at the universe and arguing it's not fair that you need other people to build a stone bridge across a canyon.

If I may, I'd like to suggest that you should strive not only to learn the content that you want to beat but also to teach it to those who are willing to learn it. You may find fewer quitters and more people committed to staying and helping. That's how--despite not being a raider--I got my Skyslipper for RP purposes, and I've never been happier.

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I've managed to do that but it doesn't change the fact I had to deal with quitters

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Originally Posted by Seera1024

That being said even single player games sometimes have multiplayer aspects that aren't soloable.

Savage raids are just fine being content that can't be easily soloable either due to how much overleveled we aren't yet unsynced or due to mechanics.

They expect that by the time you're considering doing some of the hardest content in game that you'd have made some friends either via just randomly chatting with people or through an FC. That's not too much to ask of people.

I wouldn't say no to the suggestion some have had of adding another means to obtain the glamour items from savages from previous EP's to the game. Such as the aforementioned buy with tons more tomes from the normal mode.

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Now that I wouldn't mind either

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Originally Posted by Packetdancer

I mean, I guess it comes down to "do you want to be able to clear the fight" (in which case my earlier proposed idea about them making outdated dyeable savage gear available for large quantities of the normal raid tokens is irrelevant to what you want) or "do you want the glam from the fight" (in which case said idea is very relevant).

Because I can absolutely see an argument for making the outdated gear more easily obtainable for glamour purposes; it's not remotely relevant stats-wise any longer, so people generally only want it for glam. And since you can easily unsync the fights, it's not like there's any real prestige value in having the gear any longer to be cheapened by people having some other way to obtain it.

And adding the ability to trade (large amounts of) the normal raid tokens for that gear is presumably just a matter of adding another list of trade-in options to a vendor NPC; that's almost certainly an extremely minimal amount of development time that would need to be invested in that feature. Since one assumes the vendor trade-in lists are basically like... the equivalent of an array of some data structure (Item ID, list of currency or items to be traded in along with a quantity for each), you could most likely have an intern do that in a single day without having any schedule impact.

But I just can't see a solid argument for making entirely-new, solo-friendly versions of outdated savage fights; that's a massive amount of work for extremely marginal benefit, and work moreover that requires the combat designers to do... which means they're not working on other combat content design at the time, so directly impacts schedule for other content -- and most likely current content, or content about to be current with an upcoming patch.

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So long as the make the items more accessible I don't care how

You know O12S still has relevancy today, they added in 2021 the achievement for 8-man blue mages to do it sync'd and without echo. You can't do cheese things like 'goodbye world' to get past it, because the DPS wouldn't be there to clear, and you don't have unlimited raises. Revenge Blast is pretty good though.

Nonetheless there are probably a lot of pugs that still can't count, or do suppression correctly. That mechanic is back in savage today in P2S in a box form, so maybe you'll have better luck. But in terms of unsync'd, breaking tethers in set amount of time, one-by-one, and goodbye world can work.

Content will continually get easier and easier, especially as bluemage gets increased level cap. If it can’t be done now, perhaps next expansion.

I am a firm believer certain content should be for certain game modes or styles. So, part of getting this reward is being able to organize a group of friends, or learning the mechanics to such a degree that you can do it with fewer members.

In the same way, I think stuff like the masked carnivale should continue to be solo-only because that is the “test” to get the rewards.

Looking at OP's attitude, you have to wonder why he some ends up with so many quitters. :eyes:

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Originally Posted by Vishas

Yes how dare I want to be able to work to get an item, how childish

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You have 0 clears anywhere. What item do you want exactly?
Maybe theres a good reason your groups are disbanding ;)

ITT: person somehow wants to play a multiplayer game alone and decided to make it everyone's problem

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Originally Posted by Wolwosh

You have 0 clears anywhere. What item do you want exactly?
Maybe theres a good reason your groups are disbanding ;)

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Gonna assume it's the mount. Why else?

But what does 0 clears have to do with anything tbh? Everyone starts somewhere lol.

I swear people just want to push this game out of its mmo status so bad. If you want solo content that much then play a single player game. You just want free items without doing harder content, high-end items are rewarded for taking up a challenge and overcoming it with a party - not banging your head on a keyboard solo. Now, I do believe that the fact that you might contribute more to the party and not get any loot in the end is a problem and I wish the devs do something about it, but making savage a solo experience is harmful for the game as an mmo.

Savage is like the only way to show that you're actually good at the game and your skills are above average, so get good and stop blaming the game or other players for your personal problems.

Besides, we're already getting less this expansion so far, so dividing devs' attention from other content to make a specific solo experience for savage helps nobody.

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Originally Posted by Wolwosh

You have 0 clears anywhere. What item do you want exactly?
Maybe theres a good reason your groups are disbanding ;)

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They mentioned a chestpiece - didnt specfiy which one, but given that there are coffers now, it shouldnt really matter.

No I wouldnt like this. MMOs are supposed to be coop experiences and this game is solo enough as it is. Go make some friends or something. Thats not me trying to be harsh its just not that hard. But instead of putting a little effort or simply a PF up saying Fresh Learning unsync look to clear for glam/mount in PF you are asking the developers to invent an entire system andretroactively implement it into raids that will likely take them a lot of money and a long time to come up with because you want to be lazy.

If you want them to develop new and cool things you shouldn't be saddling them with a minor problem requiring a lot of engineering to solve for your personal convenience.

Can't handle quitters and wanting to do things right freacking now. Talk about impatience...

Why is everyone attacking OP? It's content from 2 expansions ago, you should be able to solo any difficulty from content that was released 4+ years ago. I swear some of you have diamond-coated skulls, you are so damn stubborn.

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Originally Posted by icrot

Why is everyone attacking OP? It's content from 2 expansions ago, you should be able to solo any difficulty from content that was released 4+ years ago. I swear some of you have diamond-coated skulls, you are so damn stubborn.

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You can 3 man it; and soon enough indeed someone will be able to solo it. The problem isn't people being stubborn, it's that OP doesn't want to put in the effort to get something that honestly isn't that hard to get. All they need to do is get a few friends and spend a little time figuring it out at max 90 for a cakewalk.

Moreover, this sets a really dumb/dangerous precedent. There are old trials that can't be solo'd just because you need 2 or more bodies to physically be in different places/separate mobs/etc. This is either asking devs to NOT use mechanics that require more than 1 body, or spend time making a solo version way after content is no longer relevant.

Either you will be restricting what devs can do and block potentially interesting mechanics, OR you are asking them to spend time to rework these fights to be solo-able.

Whichever you want to word it, this is asking to take away from development on other projects when the devs have been clear fight design is incredibly intense time wise.

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Originally Posted by icrot

Why is everyone attacking OP? It's content from 2 expansions ago, you should be able to solo any difficulty from content that was released 4+ years ago. I swear some of you have diamond-coated skulls, you are so damn stubborn.

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I dont think anyone is arguing with people being able to solo this - people are arguing about the devs spending time on going back to this content (that wasnt designed to be cleared by one person, but by 8 - so the mechanics reflect that) and changing it so that people can solo it easly. To me thats a waste of dev-time that is better spent on developing new content, specially since the content is already pretty easy to do unsych.

In addition to that I think they shouldnt be thinking "Can this be solo'd in 4 years?" while creating fights, since that would limit the mechanics that could go into the fight in the first place.

If fights turn out to be soloable - great! But if they dont there shouldnt be ressources wasted on going back and adjusting them.

...in this specific instance the fight is also still semi-relevant in form of the bluemage-achievement.

For many personal reasons "interacting" with people/observing how people interact with each other generally irritates me and gets me exhausted.
These days I can't even force myself to join any trial practice groups - although, mostly because there is none.

Heck, simply looking at Party Finder, overrun by degenerate totally-not-ERP advertisements, always makes me question why I still play this game. But I kind of digress. Heheh.

I think trivializing old raids/trials, like developers are doing - is a bad idea, however, it would be amazing if we could do all available "battle" content (including the current Savage raids) with either squadron members or trusts - with added features like micro-managing where everyone should stand, for example - like in RTS.
That's definitely not going to happen, though.

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Originally Posted by CyanTea

For many personal reasons "interacting" with people/observing how people interact with each other generally irritates me and gets me exhausted.
These days I can't even force myself to join any trial practice groups - although, mostly because there is none.

Heck, simply looking at Party Finder, overrun by degenerate totally-not-ERP advertisements, always makes me question why I still play this game. But I kind of digress. Heheh.

I think trivializing old raids/trials, like developers are doing - is a bad idea, however, it would be amazing if we could do all available "battle" content (including the current Savage raids) with either squadron members or trusts - with added features like micro-managing where everyone should stand, for example - like in RTS.
That's definitely not going to happen, though.

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I love how ERP manages to find its way into every discussion, even when the topic at hand has nothing to do with it.

I see no reason why old content can't become trust or squadron content. There is absolutely no good reason old content needs to be group. I am all for doing group activities but older content should be accessable to all. There has been some great advice in this thread, make friends or just be patient with people.

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Originally Posted by Snorky

I see no reason why old content can't become trust or squadron content. There is absolutely no good reason old content needs to be group. I am all for doing group activities but older content should be accessable to all. There has been some great advice in this thread, make friends or just be patient with people.

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Would you be willing to sacrfice new content in order for them to adjust old content and/or trust/squadron AI to make it possible to clear old Savage fights with NPCs? Because its not enough to let you queue into this content with NPCs, the NPCs need to be able to actually clear this content with you... which would require their AI to be adjusted... which is something someone needs to do (since we know that Trust AI is adjusted per dungeon) - if that is even possible for certain mechanics.

Any adjustment to old content requires work and work equals time, that might be better spent elsewhere (eg new content). Older content is already extremly accessible, as is most content in the game - there is only a small amount of things that you cant achieve solo or through DF.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

Would you be willing to sacrfice new content in order for them to adjust old content and/or trust/squadron AI to make it possible to clear old Savage fights with NPCs? Because its not enough to let you queue into this content with NPCs, the NPCs need to be able to actually clear this content with you... which would require their AI to be adjusted... which is something someone needs to do (since we know that Trust AI is adjusted per dungeon) - if that is even possible for certain mechanics.

Any adjustment to old content requires work and work equals time, that might be better spent elsewhere (eg new content). Older content is already extremly accessible, as is most content in the game - there is only a small amount of things that you cant achieve solo or through DF.

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As if the new content is anything super special to begin with outside of the feel punching moments during the story. Let's just be honest now. So yeah, I would personally rather them take a patch to focus on providing updates to old content (like GC ranks for example....) if we're not going to get drowned in new content outside of the story.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

Would you be willing to sacrfice new content in order for them to adjust old content and/or trust/squadron AI to make it possible to clear old Savage fights with NPCs? Because its not enough to let you queue into this content with NPCs, the NPCs need to be able to actually clear this content with you... which would require their AI to be adjusted... which is something someone needs to do (since we know that Trust AI is adjusted per dungeon) - if that is even possible for certain mechanics.

Any adjustment to old content requires work and work equals time, that might be better spent elsewhere (eg new content). Older content is already extremly accessible, as is most content in the game - there is only a small amount of things that you cant achieve solo or through DF.

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Why do you think it's either or? Why would new content suffer, they are years ahead with the stuff they work on read some of the live letters. Old content is also something that can move laterally. I don't think it's a case of either new content or old. But yes I would like them to work on trusts or squadrons. It's content, just because they work on that doesn't mean there is no new content. It's kind of a straw man to say that.

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Originally Posted by Snorky

Why do you think it's either or? Why would new content suffer, they are years ahead with the stuff they work on read some of the live letters. Old content is also something that can move laterally. I don't think it's a case of either new content or old. But yes I would like them to work on trusts or squadrons. It's content, just because they work on that doesn't mean there is no new content. It's kind of a straw man to say that.

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As a developer, I can tell you how these kinds of things work. You have a list of changes that need to be made to a system. These changes are bug reports, enhancements, new features, etc. You only have so many developers, and you only have so much time. This request would probably fall into enhancement since we do have an AI of sort already. The next thing we would do is look at the problem, and what the different solutions are, as well if this is something that can be done already. In this case, there are already perfectly viable solutions to the problem (PF, friends, etc.) that will take literally zero resources for me to spend on this enhancement request. Therefore, it's now a matter of "Do I work on something that is probably a small subset of what people will actually use, or do I work on something new that will get a lot more use"? People complained about Bozja, and Eureka, and PotD, etc., but I would be willing to bet that even now, they get more use than if time was spent to go work on trusts for old content. So yes, you would be giving up resources that could be spent on new and other things instead of working on something that can already be done with the tools implemented.

Don't give support to savage solo. This is practically the only party focused content in the game.

If you want to play a single player game, don't play an MMO.

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Originally Posted by Vishas

I'm sick and tired of having to rely on others to get items I can only get from savage raids.

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If having to group with people to get the top tier of collectibles is too much then MMO's aren't for you.

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Originally Posted by Snorky

Why do you think it's either or? Why would new content suffer, they are years ahead with the stuff they work on read some of the live letters. Old content is also something that can move laterally. I don't think it's a case of either new content or old. But yes I would like them to work on trusts or squadrons. It's content, just because they work on that doesn't mean there is no new content. It's kind of a straw man to say that.

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As they say, time is money. There simply isn’t enough personnel, budget or time to do everything. It is always always always an “either or” when it comes to game development. It’s the same reason Viera/Hrothgar don’t have hats.

They absolutely should, but it’s just not high enough on their priority list- they simply don’t have the man hours free to dedicate towards side stuff like this. Or rather, they don’t want to.