Bring Cleric stance back

maybe they could actually have 2 healers that are DPS focused and 2 that are not (like og SCH Vs WHM) and bring back DoTs so SCH can have 6 again?

Cleric Stance as it used to be, nah, it was clunky, and the SB version was even worse, but as far as I know, many people liked the Lost Seraph Strike spell from Bozja, so the potential for something like that is there /shrug

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Originally Posted by IDontPetLalas

i don't see how kardia is at all like the cleric stance concept, however Lost seraph Strike is very much much what i had been thinking about, without realizing it.

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See below on why.

I'll admit, I also adored Lost Seraph Strike even aside from the Cleric Stance buff it gave you, because until then I had not realized that I really wanted a gap closer on a healer. (That might be another aspect as to why I'm maining sage this tier instead of my traditional WHM... Icarus is SO GOOD.)

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Originally Posted by Shibi

Yes, not stance dancing, but I do agree it has a touch of "situational" around it, and it's rather handy to switch it around in a mid level PUG as needed. Moreso with a front-positional RPR in the party. There are times when he needs it more than the tank.

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Yeah, I think that's it. It's not really stance-dancing, but it's something you weave in situationally to switch around an aspect of your healing, which is why it gives me a tiny bit of cleric stance nostalgia.

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Originally Posted by technole

OP must be trolling or something.

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I thought so too; but I think its more that OP heard about Cleric Stance, but never actually saw it in play.
Forum join date is quite recent (even though that often doesn't mean much.)

I want the Heansward Cleric Stance back; stance dancing made healing interesting.

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Originally Posted by Lubu_Mykono

maybe they could actually have 2 healers that are DPS focused and 2 that are not (like og SCH Vs WHM) and bring back DoTs so SCH can have 6 again?

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Watch the non-DPS focused healers fall out of favour pretty quickly. Wasn't SCH super favoured back then?

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Originally Posted by Allegor

Cleric Stance as it used to be, nah, it was clunky, and the SB version was even worse, but as far as I know, many people liked the Lost Seraph Strike spell from Bozja, so the potential for something like that is there /shrug

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Imo the reason I like Lost Seraph Strike is because it also acts as a gap closer, something that Sage now has without damaging the enemy.
It was fun but not sure how would you balance that outside of bozja

I wouldn't mind it tbh, if we had more DPS things to mess with and adds a little more depth to the boring gameplay that is healer.
What we really need is more DPS spells instead of Heal spells that serves the same purpose as the other 3 we have.
Most spells is just Heal potency up with a new animation. It's kinda overkill.

Please... no.

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Originally Posted by Allegor

and the SB version was even worse,

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I definitely agree with you.
Cleric Stance even took a hiatus for an expansion after Stormblood, it had a little makeover for some extra effects and returned anew in Endwalker as Astrodyne.

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Originally Posted by Allegor

Cleric Stance as it used to be, nah, it was clunky, and the SB version was even worse, but as far as I know, many people liked the Lost Seraph Strike spell from Bozja, so the potential for something like that is there /shrug

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IDK if i'd call the SB version worse. At that point, all it was was a dps cooldown for healers.

I wouldn't say I want it back, since as has been noted, it'd be redundant at present, but I did have a soft spot for it when we had it, if only for my "Cleric's Dance" Macros that swapped my hotbars when I used them to fit my new stats. Though I was a Scholar at the time, so in a pinch I could drop a... The Aetherflow one that used to heal percentile damage. Helped me keep peace of mind when something went wrong.

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Originally Posted by ChazNatlo

I wouldn't say I want it back, since as has been noted, it'd be redundant at present, but I did have a soft spot for it when we had it, if only for my "Cleric's Dance" Macros that swapped my hotbars when I used them to fit my new stats. Though I was a Scholar at the time, so in a pinch I could drop a... The Aetherflow one that used to heal percentile damage. Helped me keep peace of mind when something went wrong.

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It was Lustrate. They made it scale with stats instead after ARR, though.

no thanks, healers don't dps as is. let's not make it more annoying for those that actually do.

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Originally Posted by ErryK

no thanks, healers don't dps as is. let's not make it more annoying for those that actually do.

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This is the right of it.

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Originally Posted by Kranel_San

Cleric stance would increase healers' heals while also decreasing their damage. It was the healing stance for healers. ( You can imagine how this went badly )
Same for tank stance.
Cleric stance got removed while tank stance changed to be what it is today.

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Wait, so you're asking for the re-addition of something of which your understanding is entirely backwards?

Cleric Stance swapped your Mind (curative) and Intelligence (offensive) stats, in practice unlocking your attacks and locking your heals for at least 5 seconds. This made it a risk to start attacking at all, as you'd be left unable to heal for 5 seconds, therefore greatly reducing woven damage the average player would do.

Cleric Stance did not, to any degree not already included in healer offensive potency increases, increase damage. Nor did it increase healing. It merely made sure that either the offensive or curative portions of your kit were locked out at any given time.

I miss cleric stance for when I solo duties and fates. Because didn't need to heal with my chocobo that heals me just as good.

Honestly tho. Cleric Stance dancing was fun!! Miss it atleast it gave us healer to think about consequenses

No thanks I would rather not have this or tank stances come back. I've been with this game since Day 1 and while I used those abilities effectively it was out of necessity and not because I enjoyed them. They were needlessly cumbersome and awkward to use during encounters and sometimes they wouldn't respond when you tried to disable/enable them.

This game has scaled Healer dps to work with other stats and not Int so it's a pointless ability in the current state of the game.

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

Those who tried with clerics often faltered and ended up healing with int spec rather than mind mdd add king for unsustainable pulls. While I did enjoy this depth of gameplay, many couldn’t handle it

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Oh common man, what depth? I'm a healer since 2.0 and I think you're making it sound grander than it actually is.

cleric stance was a lot of fun but it was janky af and often wouldn't respond when i tried to click it off. i'd rather not revisit those times, as much fun as they were.

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

Oh common man, what depth? I'm a healer since 2.0 and I think you're making it sound grander than it actually is.

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A|B toggles to, in effect, grey out one half your buttons or the other is deep, yo.

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

Oh common man, what depth? I'm a healer since 2.0 and I think you're making it sound grander than it actually is.

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Toggle. Such depth. Many healings.

lol no. It can stay in the trash where it belongs.

Said as someone who happily did the dance back when it was necessary. The removal made healer DPS far more fluid and accessible. Bringing it back's not going to make our glarespam any more compelling.

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Originally Posted by RecoveryPotion

I wasn't around when this was implemented , what did cleric stance do?

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Two versions. If I get them wrong, I'm sure someone can correct me.

Version 1: Increased your damage while reducing your healing potency. Think current Essence of the Profane in Bozja/Save the Queen, except you could turn on and off at will. I think the toggle had a cooldown though, so if you activated it at the wrong time, you were useless for like 10 seconds or something. I may be wrong about that. I believe the way it used to work is that it would swap your Intelligence and Mind values or something like that. It was annoying imho.

Version 2: Increased damage dealt as a healer by 5% for 15 seconds.

Basically what they did is replace V1 with V2 and eventually just made it so you just deal damage as a healer in a range somewhere between no CS V2 and V2 which balances out.
If you ask me (and somewhat like BLM's old Enochian), it was just an annoying extra button you had to manage for the sake of needless complexity, but I guess it depends on each person. I personally don't miss it.

I wasn’t around back then (or I was but not playing this as my main game) but based on what I’ve read in this thread, how would this worth for sages who actually DPS to heal?

Bring Eye for an Eye back too! Remove sleep

No. Cleric stance was clunky with the global cooldown as it is. As a Sage, this would be the worst possible as we have to quickly go between shielding a tank and then trying to dps between shield breaks. That already takes two GCDs to shield a tank. With Cleric it would become 3 to shield them and 2 to even use one attack before having to use 3 again to shield the tank again.

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Originally Posted by Wolwosh

Bring Eye for an Eye back too! Remove sleep

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That thing is more RNG than doing a cactpot...

Version 2 cleric was pretty bad because you had to also had to select in your limited role actions. Or setup some macro like cast protect on the party pre-pull and then swap it out for cleric.

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Originally Posted by Wolwosh

Bring Eye for an Eye back too! Remove sleep

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No, sleep is needed for raids like Baldeson Arsenal. Certain mobs will enrage if they are not slept.

Also helps when soloing Eureka and needing to trek through higher level monsters to get to your quest.

E4E was too RNG

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Originally Posted by Rhysati

That already takes two GCDs to shield a tank.

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please look at the recast times again. it takes 2.5s to put up a shield because Eukrasia is a 1s, and Eukrasian spells are 1.5s. that is not 2 GCDs.

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Originally Posted by Kranel_San

I understand they removed it for balancing purposes, but I think it would be cool if healers can get the cleric stance back. However, for said balancing purposes. It would work similarly to BLU basic instinct where it only boosts the damage outside instances & Parties.
Same for tank stance. It can boost the tanks' damage outside instances & parties but once they join one the damage increase will be gone.

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I would support for bringing in a stance for Tanks and Healers that give them more DPS in Open-world content and solo duties in quests, because in those quests you are often expected to bring the damage but if you're levelling as a healer or tank they can get rather annoying as your damage output isn't quite on the same level as it would be if you were playing a DPS.

It should however be unusable inside anything that requires the Duty Finder, just being something that makes going through the MSQ smoother for Tanks and Healers.

The more I think about it, the more I realize just how similar old Cleric Stance is to the Doom status effect.

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Originally Posted by dapperfaffer

You can change to full site view with the icon that shows up on the bottom bar when on your phone if you scroll down. I think its called Full Site View.

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Yeah but it sucks on mobile and going back requires a cookie dump.

I would rather see Protect and Stone Skin come back over Cleric Stance

Am I the only who feels like if they did return Cleric Stance they’d just keep using it as an excuse to keep healer toolkits extremely simplistic? especially the dps side.

I can already imagine their responses lol, ‘we gave healers Cleric Stance so we can’t add any more abilities that aren’t oGCD heals to them because stress’. I mean, it’s not any different to what we have now, except we’d have a fairly unnecessary button to press every single time we switched healing and damage. Cleric Stance always felt like busywork to me, and never an actual decision. You either switched it on and dps’d until you ran out of Lustrate or Eos couldn’t handle healing alone (rare outside of savage) or you were just doing it wrong lol. To me it felt restrictive to healer gameplay because everything you ever done revolved around that maximising uptime on that single ability, which personally I don’t find very fun.

I’d rather they left Cleric Stance behind and focused on making healers actually engaging to play. We shouldn’t need something like Cleric Stance to make our jobs interesting in the first place, in theory you’d think the job design is what makes it fun. Unfortunately with healers, there’s just too little going on there though, which is compounded by poor encounter design (i.e minimal healing). I feel like the devs have more freedom to make engaging ‘dps toolkits’ for healers if we don’t have Cleric Stance.

Also in terms of playing with rather than as a healer, I genuinely think Cleric Stance would be more damaging than beneficial. You’d just keep run into healers refusing to turn it off under any circumstances, and if the party wipes well ‘shouldn’t have gotten hit’ (…by unavoidable damage lol). And on the other side of the spectrum you’d have a bunch of healers who would refuse to turn it on under any circumstances, even if the tank is taking literally no damage at all lol, which would cause issues with meeting dps requirements in content where they exist (because regardless of what devs say raid content absolutely does require healer dps). That’s not to even speak of how inherently counterintuitive it is for a healer to spend most of their time in a dps stance lol, particularly if you’re a newer healer (‘I signed up to play a healer but you want me to stay in this dps stance that severely reduces my healing the entire time?’)

For players who preferred that stance-dancing type of healing maybe they could design a new job someday revolving around maximising use of an ability that significantly reduces healing potency. Though frankly I think it’s going to be a long, long, long, long, long time before we ever see a new healer again, because healer balance is on a thin precipice right now and a fifth healer would tip it straight into the abyss (I mean, for one thing, it would cause an imbalance between pure and shield healers unless it was somehow both)