in from the cold is so stupid

Personally, I disliked every perspective of the quest.

Gameplay wise, it's badly done. Bunch of unnecessary running from one end of the instance and back because sequence breaking is bad. And the combat there has the complexity of a level 4 Gladiator.

In terms of story, all it does is remove all impact from The Tower of Babil and the Zodiark trial because Fandaniel just casually straight up tells you Anima is made from Varis' corpse and that the Zodiark trial is coming.

People say that as narrative point it tries to establish how much more powerful the WoL is compared to regular people, a difference that's basically a commonly known fact...

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Originally Posted by Thaigare

Its was easy pre-nerf, now I cant even imagine how much of a joke it is...It fit into the story well and was a really really nice and welcome addition to changing things up!

It just seems like carebares just need to be handheld through everything now a days :(

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I'll just paraphrase all comment like this: "git gud". Just say what you truly want to say, you pansy.

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Originally Posted by Bopsheezi

I hated it not because it was hard, I didn't think it was, but because it was unfun.

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This is mostly true for any complaint about something in a game where the devs feels some need to take away from the games original gameplay to shove some unfun, ill-fitting bogus just because they're out of ideas on how to get a player to sweat and think they might fail, since they already used all the one-shots and other boring old gimmicks they could. I imagine it's to willfully create the kind of comment i quoted above yours. Ugh...

I can see the points with people who dislike it. I loved it both narratively and gameplay wise. I am a very big stealth fan, though, so this was right up my alley.

They tried to shake things up in XV in a similar manner sometimes in gameplay but I think it worked a lot better here.

I slogged through it maybe 10 times on normal before beating it, not a very fun experience. I wasn't a fan of the role playing solo duties in shadowbringers or the stealth sections in endwalker, and this combined the worst parts of both into one duty.
Also, having a quick time event at the end of a cutscene that forces you to redo the whole duty is a mistake in my opinion. You can complete the whole thing flawlessly but if you don't mash hard enough or if the game bugs out and opens a chat window you just have to redo the whole duty again.

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Originally Posted by Conundrum

INB4 the conga line of of people telling you how easy it was and how they did it blindfolded using only one toe to control their character.


oops...too late

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What, do you think everyone secretly wiped and they are all just fronting? Lol.

The stupid part is the imaginary barriers. The premise is you are sneaking around the ruined city, except you are not. You are following the dotted lines that directs you the wrong way. They are not the edge of the instance, just a fake maze. Not really a maze either, just a longer route when they could have just used the actual city structures and the wilderness beyond. IIRC the instructions say to stick to the shadows, but there didn't seems to be any mechanic involving shadows. It would have been more interesting if you had to sneak through the actual terrain.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

I slogged through it maybe 10 times on normal before beating it, not a very fun experience. I wasn't a fan of the role playing solo duties in shadowbringers or the stealth sections in endwalker, and this combined the worst parts of both into one duty.
Also, having a quick time event at the end of a cutscene that forces you to redo the whole duty is a mistake in my opinion. You can complete the whole thing flawlessly but if you don't mash hard enough or if the game bugs out and opens a chat window you just have to redo the whole duty again.

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Jrpg mantra: you will learn to be better at the content you're doing not because you want to be better, but because the devs have struck the fear of TWO to FIVE minutes cutscenes on repeat if you die again.

*kh1 ptsd intensifies*

Better mission than their dungeons. Tells a lot

I'm all for trying out new stuff with the solo duty design, I feel like that's a great place to go outside the box. This one hasnt hit the mark imo. Gameplay was pretty shallow with how limited your actions were (which makes sense from a story point of view of course). Sectioning off areas felt too arbitrary. It would have been better if it placed you in a specially designed map for this, like some sort of tunnel out of the city. The duty was unique but what it tried didnt make the landing which is unfortunate, especially since I think the "this is thancred" duty stuck the landing perfectly.

Just because it's mmorpg doesn't mean solo questing should always be easy. I absolutely love this quest, it set the tone of despair just right for me.

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Originally Posted by Thaigare

Its was easy pre-nerf, now I cant even imagine how much of a joke it is...It fit into the story well and was a really really nice and welcome addition to changing things up!

It just seems like carebares just need to be handheld through everything now a days :(

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I just did it again on one of my alts. It wasn't really nerfed. All they did was make it a little easier to find fuel and medkits. Otherwise it felt very much the same as it did the first time around. You still have to find the correct damaged armor before you're allowed to collect fuel or pick up the key. You're still going to need a few medkits if you get sloppy and end up in combat.

I can understand why some players don't enjoy it (seriously there's no need to call anyone a carebear, that's just you being a jerk for the sake of being a jerk) but I still think it was one of the best quests of the expansion and certainly the only RP duty they've ever done that I've enjoyed. It does well demonstrating just how powerful the WoL is compared to ordinary "people" and in creating a sense of desperation as you race the timer.

Fine to me. Nobody in my FC struggled with it lol

I actually liked it and had no issues with it ( before the nerf ).
And I ran around like a headless chicken for a while I didn't expect to have to go and scavenge so far from the main objective and I still had plenty of time left.

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Originally Posted by Conundrum

INB4 the conga line of of people telling you how easy it was and how they did it blindfolded using only one toe to control their character.


oops...too late

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But it's okay for people to whine about how hard it is?

Casual here. Cleared it on my first try before nerf and with fear of disconnect.

The suspense! Already figured out what to do after fighting the first mob on early access. Cleared on first try. Avoid them unless its the objective.

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Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard

People say that as narrative point it tries to establish how much more powerful the WoL is compared to regular people, a difference that's basically a commonly known fact...

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I can see how the instance was supposed to put this into perspective, but then I think they completely dropped the ball once you're done and catch up with Zenos. So you just spent that whole time struggling to fight against regular garlean soldiers and then you're able to just throw a knife and it immediately destroys Zenos' avatar? Then you knock Zenos over like it's no big deal? But not only that...the whole thing is never mentioned again. So I was left feeling like ok what was the point in all that except to get me at the edge of my seat but then say psyche that's it!

ETA: And apparently Fandaniel can teleport you away whenever he feels like it but we never see it happen again.

The only thing I disliked about the trial was that you had 0 natural hp regen. Even npcs we took control in previous duties had natural hp regen. I was fine with everything else about it pre-nerf. I like the curve balls they throw us from time to time.

As someone who got 4 characters through Endwalker, I have a tip that worked for me!

Using Waymarks to mark where the magitek reaper and fuel is helps a TON. If you find the fuel first (out of order for example), just mark with a waymarker. It'll even show up in your mini compass and actual map. This way you don't have to waste time trying to do all this backtracking. It'll be easier for you to carry the fuel to the reaper if you mark where the location is.

Hope this helps anyone getting other characters through Endwalker :D

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Originally Posted by SomeRandomHuman

The only thing I disliked about the trial was that you had 0 natural hp regen. Even npcs we took control in previous duties had natural hp regen. I was fine with everything else about it pre-nerf. I like the curve balls they throw us from time to time.

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You're not supposed to have HP Regen. You're playing a Garlean without the usual Eorzean benefits. There's also a Regen buff you can pick up that's nearby the path you need to take anyway.

I enjoyed it because while it was definitely a bit more difficult than your regular quests, it was meant to be. It was designed to show you how strong the WoL is and just why the Garleans fear him and the other Eorzeans due to their ability to manipulate aether which the Garleeans lack They have to rely on technology for all of that. It worked really well in that regard and created a sense of desperation.

"This road is clearly open and would help me escape but there's an invisible boundary that I can't cross through. I guess I'll die."

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Originally Posted by SomeRandomHuman

The only thing I disliked about the trial was that you had 0 natural hp regen. Even npcs we took control in previous duties had natural hp regen. I was fine with everything else about it pre-nerf. I like the curve balls they throw us from time to time.

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I'd like you to mention who else had natural regeneration. I dont remember seeing anyone in the story with that.

Stupid how? We talking about the forced body swap thing? Cause that was a bit...not great. Though I do like how it shows just how alien we are to Garleans. They don't auto-heal, they can't use magic, and just to fight on equal terms with non-Garleans they need power armor.

i was surprised they even nerfed this duty. it felt trivial at normal difficulty, i can't imagine what people were doing that they couldn't beat it on easy or very easy

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Originally Posted by SomeRandomHuman

The only thing I disliked about the trial was that you had 0 natural hp regen. Even npcs we took control in previous duties had natural hp regen. I was fine with everything else about it pre-nerf. I like the curve balls they throw us from time to time.

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It can be that the body you control in this duty is already dead. And it is the first time that you control a garlean body. And Garleans cannot use magic. So maybe they have no natural HP regen and must use Magitec and/or potions.


Cheers

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Originally Posted by Mika_Zahard

I'd like you to mention who else had natural regeneration. I dont remember seeing anyone in the story with that.

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In battle your HP and MP have natural regen effects. They're not all that much but it's still there.

By natural regeneration I'm talking about characters getting small ticks of it. Every npc we played as(y'shtola, hien, gra'ha).

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Originally Posted by ovIm

I really don't get the hate for this bit of the scenario. Its wonderfully fitting for the theme of Endwalker, overcoming dread and impossible odds.

Imho, if you struggled a bit with finding your way, and combat something you actively tried to avoid, then the mission did everything right. I kinda feel like that it what its supposed to do, make us uneasy and go out of our comfort zone. Its one of the better setpieces of the entire expansion if you ask me, because its not straightforward.

To use someone elses words:
Think, and find your way in the darkness.

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I also think it was one of the best moments in EW. And you were supposed to rush and be frantic. Compared to a lot of rather shallow solo instances this one did everything right.

What was nerfed about it? And if that's true, why? Don't you get the 'very easy' option when you fail?

Juts fail it then pick Easy Mode.

There. Your problem is solved.

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

What was nerfed about it? And if that's true, why? Don't you get the 'very easy' option when you fail?

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They nerfed the "Easy" and "Very Easy" options.

https://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...f85cd6938df386


* These adjustments are only applicable when choosing the Easy or Very Easy difficulties after failing the duty.

The effects of the Indomitable Spirit status effect have been increased.
The initial number of uses of the duty action has been increased.
To more easily locate certain items required to progress in this duty, the amount of fuel-concealing wreckage in the area has been increased.



Cheers

it was one of my favourite duties in ew, shows the world from someoe who isn't incredibly powerful and it was just overall fun

Personally, i really liked that Quest. That Power Balance is how i wish how the enviroment would be in the overworld of the Game, and even more so in Dungeons. The WoL has more than enough Plotarmor already, at least let the World remind him that in the end, he is JUST a Adventurer.

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Originally Posted by OhNooo

I can see how the instance was supposed to put this into perspective, but then I think they completely dropped the ball once you're done and catch up with Zenos. So you just spent that whole time struggling to fight against regular garlean soldiers and then you're able to just throw a knife and it immediately destroys Zenos' avatar? Then you knock Zenos over like it's no big deal? But not only that...the whole thing is never mentioned again. So I was left feeling like ok what was the point in all that except to get me at the edge of my seat but then say psyche that's it!

ETA: And apparently Fandaniel can teleport you away whenever he feels like it but we never see it happen again.

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The whole thing was garbage story telling from top to bottom. And it could have been amazing if done right. I still find it mind blowing how people just give the entire setup a free pass. Let alone the ending of it

Fandaniel is a sundered ascian, and yet he can freely teleport us away and disable us in the blink of an eye. No narrative buildup as to how he could accomplish this, it just "happens". After seeing our character disabled in that chair from the launch trailer, I was left wondering how they would do it. But they couldnt even go the cheap route of having Fandaniel find some Allagan tech that lets him disable a target. Or use a Garlean to betray us, which would have totally been in character. And been so much more satisfying to see from a storytelling perspective as we were trying to help them.

Instead he just yeets us, and they never bother to say how to the player. Leaving this enormous plot hole in the process. Why didnt Emet Selch, Lahabrea, or Elidibus just teleport us into a damn lava pit and kill us if it was this easy? Or any of the disposable rank and file sundered Ascians? The reason was simple, before this, the target had to be disabled or be willing to be teleported. None of which happened to us. Instead we were teleported away and then disabled with no explanation as to how he did any of it. And then uses the body swap tech.....*slow clap*.....well done amazing top tier writing

I expect this kind of writing from dollar store novels. But it just gets a free pass because 14's writers cant screw up. I liked the majority of the expansion, dont get me wrong. But this entire section was garbage

Y'all need to learn sneaking at Eureka or Deep Dungeon :)

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Originally Posted by Elodie_Einsbern

The whole thing was garbage story telling from top to bottom. And it could have been amazing if done right. I still find it mind blowing how people just give the entire setup a free pass. Let alone the ending of it

Fandaniel is a sundered ascian, and yet he can freely teleport us away and disable us in the blink of an eye. No narrative buildup as to how he could accomplish this, it just "happens". After seeing our character disabled in that chair from the launch trailer, I was left wondering how they would do it. But they couldnt even go the cheap route of having Fandaniel find some Allagan tech that lets him disable a target. Or use a Garlean to betray us, which would have totally been in character. And been so much more satisfying to see from a storytelling perspective as we were trying to help them.

Instead he just yeets us, and they never bother to say how to the player. Leaving this enormous plot hole in the process. Why didnt Emet Selch, Lahabrea, or Elidibus just teleport us into a damn lava pit and kill us if it was this easy? Or any of the disposable rank and file sundered Ascians? The reason was simple, before this, the target had to be disabled or be willing to be teleported. None of which happened to us. Instead we were teleported away and then disabled with no explanation as to how he did any of it. And then uses the body swap tech.....*slow clap*.....well done amazing top tier writing

I expect this kind of writing from dollar store novels. But it just gets a free pass because 14's writers cant screw up. I liked the majority of the expansion, dont get me wrong. But this entire section was garbage

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More like, someone hasn't been paying enoughattention to the Story and starts throwing random claims.

Fandaniel isn't just some random sundered Ascian. His previous Life as Amon not only introduced him as a scientific Genius, he also pulled off a similar stunt in the Crystal Tower with Phlegethon (last Boss in Labyrinth of the Ancients) where he completely wiped his memory and made him a Guarddog for all eternity. Alongside that, he even STRAIGHT UP TELLS you that he picked uo Aulus mal Asina's research Data (second Boss of Ala Mhigo, the guy who yeets out your Soul with Demi Magic) and perfected it.

If that doesn't cover for it, i don't know what will.

It's almost like people like different things and find some content difficult that other people find easy. Not every one has the same skill set. My self I did not like the scenario, I don't like playing as a npc, I want to play my character. I just do not find it fun at all. I don't think things like this should be removed and I think they did a good job nerfing the easier modes of it. I would rather have a option of watching it as a cut scene than playing thru it.

I feel for you OP, this scenario really upset me at the time, by the end of it I so pissed I skipped the cut scenes at the end and really just gave up on the story after that. It was just so frustrating.

It's well-established that this particular quest is divisive, but for the most part I'd argue it accomplished exactly what it intended to do. The objective of the solo duty is to force a perspective-flip on the player, make them feel weak, helpless, frustrated, desperate, and so on; it's supposed to be a very real struggle, forcing you to adapt to a tough situation without the advantages and tools you normally have.

The one catch is... quite frankly, many simply didn't get it. The moment they lose their power fantasy, nothing else matters except they're being denied the power trip they've grown accustomed to.

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That being said, it could be argued the ending and follow-through for the solo duty were lacking.

Zenos doesn't manage to cause any damage, but at the same time the last-minute save does feel earned (surprisingly few people notice that the ending crawl actually has the player speeding up, almost as if they were about to stand back up). Still, him actually managing to hurt others (possibly killing off a named NPC or two, if not necessarily a member of the Scions) instead of being intercepted at the last second would have made him a much more hated foe. Even then, at the time I felt they did a great job of re-establishing how big a threat Zenos was.

... which brings me to the follow through, in that they don't really do anything with Zenos afterwards. He does have some appearances afterwards, but they definitely could have made him into a much more dangerous threat (if not necessarily the most interesting character) if he showed up and caused some damage. I suppose it was contrary to what they wanted to do with the character in end, but Zenos is a character which really needed a (good) reason to be despised.

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Originally Posted by Anhra

More like, someone hasn't been paying enoughattention to the Story and starts throwing random claims.

Fandaniel isn't just some random sundered Ascian. His previous Life as Amon not only introduced him as a scientific Genius, he also pulled off a similar stunt in the Crystal Tower with Phlegethon (last Boss in Labyrinth of the Ancients) where he completely wiped his memory and made him a Guarddog for all eternity. Alongside that, he even STRAIGHT UP TELLS you that he picked uo Aulus mal Asina's research Data (second Boss of Ala Mhigo, the guy who yeets out your Soul with Demi Magic) and perfected it.

If that doesn't cover for it, i don't know what will.

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That doesn't explain why Lahabrea didn't just teleport us into the sun. It makes sense for Fandaniel to have this power and still fail to kill us because he doesn't actually want to win, he's just doing all this to annoy us so we'll kill Zodiark for him. But other more powerful Ascians actually wanted us dead and this makes them look pretty dumb in retrospect.

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Originally Posted by Elodie_Einsbern

I expect this kind of writing from dollar store novels. But it just gets a free pass because 14's writers cant screw up. I liked the majority of the expansion, dont get me wrong. But this entire section was garbage

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Unfortunately, there are a lot of FFXIV players that give everything story-related a free pass for unknown reasons. I've seen the same arguements in context of the ridiculous quest in Labyrinthos where you have to run around and talk to EIGHT random NPCs. Whenever someone rightfully points out how stupid it is, these very same people say "it's not that bad"; "I think it's OK"; "actually, I kind of enjoyed it"; "everything shouldn't be easy" etc.

I will never understand people giving bad design a free pass. "In from the Cold" is just a ridiculous quest. Even if you give it a pass lore-wise; technically it's just an extremely tedious and poorly designed quest seemingly made to waste players' time.

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Originally Posted by Anhra

More like, someone hasn't been paying enoughattention to the Story and starts throwing random claims.

Fandaniel isn't just some random sundered Ascian. His previous Life as Amon not only introduced him as a scientific Genius, he also pulled off a similar stunt in the Crystal Tower with Phlegethon (last Boss in Labyrinth of the Ancients) where he completely wiped his memory and made him a Guarddog for all eternity. Alongside that, he even STRAIGHT UP TELLS you that he picked uo Aulus mal Asina's research Data (second Boss of Ala Mhigo, the guy who yeets out your Soul with Demi Magic) and perfected it.

If that doesn't cover for it, i don't know what will.

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Maybe you should learn to read yourself. Considering I said and know what he used to swap our soul to another body.

"And then uses the body swap tech.....*slow clap*.....well done amazing top tier writing"

Pretty easy to read

Now explain how he teleported and disabled us in the blink of an eye, succeeded where all other Ascians failed? You know, the meat of my post that you completely ignored

Oh that's right.....you cant because it was never explained. It just happened. And hand wave all you like about Fandaniel, he is a Sundered Ascian. Emit Selch was leagues ahead of what Fandaniel could ever hope to be in regards to mastery of magics and power. And thats what he used, magic to teleport us away, not science. Good writing would have had build up to how through cunning and knowledge Fandaniel could accomplish what brute strength hadn't been able too.

That didn't happen, no where even close

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Originally Posted by Imoye

Unfortunately, there are a lot of FFXIV players that give everything story-related a free pass for unknown reasons. I've seen the same arguements in context of the ridiculous quest in Labyrinthos where you have to run around and talk to EIGHT random NPCs. Whenever someone rightfully points out how stupid it is, these very same people say "it's not that bad"; "I think it's OK"; "actually, I kind of enjoyed it"; "everything shouldn't be easy" etc.

I will never understand people giving bad design a free pass. "In from the Cold" is just a ridiculous quest. Even if you give it a pass lore-wise; technically it's just an extremely tedious and poorly designed quest seemingly made to waste players' time.

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Its not that at all. Some people genuinely enjoy those story moments because they knew what the designers were going for and appreciated how it was presented. Its obvious some people dont like it, but I personally didnt think the quest was bad at all. It was great for what it did in terms of story telling.