Delaying all Savage tiers by 2 weeks

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Originally Posted by JanVanding

Wiffs of absolute arrogance your post does.

On a New Normal Tier, what do we typically get, remember this game is not aimed at content cannibals and no lifers, but people that work most of the time in real jobs and can spare a few hours a day tops, except on days off work where they midcore it.

-They drop a new crafter set that first must be crafted and Pentamelded

-They drop a story dungeon

-They drop the Normal Raid 4 series for that tier

-They turn on new nodes/extra materials and Recipes

-They drop the Savage

All of which you'll do, especially the story content as that's typically the gate to get in that you progress the MSQ before you get access.

So let's say the average player works 40 hours a week. ..
They get 6-7 hours tops per day to play

So they'd have to:

-Log in immediately on server up
-go straight into MSQ, clear it, clear the dungeon, skip every cut scene
-Go straight away after to gather the stuff they need to make the new crafter set, pray to RNGesus it pentamelds easily
-straight from there to new normal tier, clear it quickly
-gather nodes in between, craft raid food/tinctures


Well damn they gotta go to work now and are out of time!! They might get to raid the day after, but if you're a reset day static tough, you don't get to go play today unless you PTOed every patch day which in adults world, no boss will allow it.

Yes, it's harder content, yes it requires dedication and preparation and practice

But just because you have all the hours in the world clearly does not mean everyone else does and it's time for you to get some perspective that even the world first raiders themselves have been asking for this

14 days, two weeks, a fortnight. Not much of an ask is it? You're acting like it's getting delayed 3 months like the third tier of Eden was...sheesh.

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well your under no obligation to do the MSQ straight away, that can wait until your done with the raid, but aside from that you make a good point.

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Originally Posted by JanVanding

Wiffs of absolute arrogance your post does.

On a New Normal Tier, what do we typically get, remember this game is not aimed at content cannibals and no lifers, but people that work most of the time in real jobs and can spare a few hours a day tops, except on days off work where they midcore it.

-They drop a new crafter set that first must be crafted and Pentamelded

-They drop a story dungeon

-They drop the Normal Raid 4 series for that tier

-They turn on new nodes/extra materials and Recipes

-They drop the Savage

All of which you'll do, especially the story content as that's typically the gate to get in that you progress the MSQ before you get access.

So let's say the average player works 40 hours a week. ..
They get 6-7 hours tops per day to play

So they'd have to:

-Log in immediately on server up
-go straight into MSQ, clear it, clear the dungeon, skip every cut scene
-Go straight away after to gather the stuff they need to make the new crafter set, pray to RNGesus it pentamelds easily
-straight from there to new normal tier, clear it quickly
-gather nodes in between, craft raid food/tinctures


Well damn they gotta go to work now and are out of time!! They might get to raid the day after, but if you're a reset day static tough, you don't get to go play today unless you PTOed every patch day which in adults world, no boss will allow it.

Yes, it's harder content, yes it requires dedication and preparation and practice

But just because you have all the hours in the world clearly does not mean everyone else does and it's time for you to get some perspective that even the world first raiders themselves have been asking for this

14 days, two weeks, a fortnight. Not much of an ask is it? You're acting like it's getting delayed 3 months like the third tier of Eden was...sheesh.

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I am confused, so how does this help people?
Most people that are going to world first are typically going to take time off work to raid all week and essentially no life the game.
So we are wanting to delay raid to appease the smallest percent of players which are the world first racers?

More than likely, if you are a world first racer you will do MSQ later, you will likely have some one crafting this gear and pentamelding it for you ahead of time, as well as food / pots.
If you don't have these things, you likely are not world first raiding, or at least you are not going to be good at world first raiding.

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Originally Posted by Akava

Another fix would be just talking with your static and starting savage a day later but people seem to get angry with that idea.

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Because it often means someone in your static is going to wind up disappointed. Case in point, my group is more raid focused but several people, myself included, do enjoy the story. Nonetheless, most of us will prioritize raiding over it while a couple members prefer to do the normals and watch everything. Which means no matter what decision we make, someone's upset.

My whole argument is they delay everything to avoid players feeling rushed. Back when the Firmament released, they specifically mentioned moving it to the .01 patch so crafters wouldn't have to choice between story and focusing on crafting. Why can't that same courtesy be given to raiders?

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Because it often means someone in your static is going to wind up disappointed. Case in point, my group is more raid focused but several people, myself included, do enjoy the story. Nonetheless, most of us will prioritize raiding over it while a couple members prefer to do the normals and watch everything. Which means no matter what decision we make, someone's upset.

My whole argument is they delay everything to avoid players feeling rushed. Back when the Firmament released, they specifically mentioned moving it to the .01 patch so crafters wouldn't have to choice between story and focusing on crafting. Why can't that same courtesy be given to raiders?

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Summed up my thoughts exactly. Feeling like you have to choose or be rushed or you'll miss a day of Prog is not a good choice to be placed in.

I must have missed out on that Live Letter. Anyone got a link to the source stream? Which Live Letter was this?

if we get crafted gear same patch as normal and delay savage by two weeks yeah be great

crafting is hella crazy week one and be nice for a little bit more time to be organised.

I am not against a delay but..unless your racing for World first. Whats the big freakin hurry?? Lol

What i find really wrong is 1 tome per savage raid cleared, if you aren't lucky and don't loot, you are gearing 1 character in 2 months, imagine wanting to gear a 2nd character / job for raiding... It's really demotivating on that front.

I'd prefer it if savage raiders didn't have time to unlock materials and recipes, gather and craft before the raid and had to buy the gear off the market board. I'd also prefer if casuals who don't pentameld didn't have 2 weeks to get free normal raid gear before crafted gear comes out. Profits were terrible this time.

So I vote for things to be as they were before. Release normal, savage and anything related to crafting at the same time.

I have no strong feelings either way on this issue! Either release schedule is fine with me! Internet rage!

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Originally Posted by Akava

I think any problems a delay would fix could also be fixed in a way that doesn't force others without those same problems to have to wait to do the content they're most excited about.

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If they delay all the Savage fights, you aren't losing any content. The time between two Savage tiers will be exactly the same. You won't be waiting any longer than usual in the long run and it's not even a delay really. You can pretend Normal is getting released 2 weeks earlier if it helps you sleep better.

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Originally Posted by Akava

I think it's a terrible idea and I hate it.

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Have you considered that world first raiders also love story and would like to enjoy the story and actually read it without having skip cut scenes so they can get into savage?

I'm not sure about other regions but I know quite a few NA and EU raiders have been pretty vocal about liking the 2 week delay the first tier gets as it allows them to actually enjoy the raid story and not skip cut scenes.

There is no downside to delaying the content. You're still getting it. I fail to see why a delay would be any issue for tiers 2 and 3 when its been standard for 1 since HW. ( Not sure about ARR since I started playing in 2.2 )

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Originally Posted by Akava

I think it's a terrible idea and I hate it.

Thanks for coming to my TED talk.

Edit: There seems to be a misunderstanding. Yoshi said in a previous live letter that they were considering delaying the release of Savages by 2 weeks after normal. This is instead of only the first Savage of an expansion being delayed and the second and third tier coming out the same day as Normal.

This has nothing to do with COVID.

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I’d be perfectly fine with a 1 week delay between the normal mode releases for release #2 and #3.

I enjoy the story for the raids. And being as I work 11-hour days throughout the week, I don’t have time on Tuesdays to do the story and enjoy it before it’s time to raid. The same can be said for people I raid with currently and have raided with in the past. I think it’s a fair compromise because not all raiders raid just to raid. Some enjoy the story itself. And it really doesn’t hurt anything to put a week gap between the two.

The lack of a delay and the lack of being able to enjoy the story for last tier is why I stopped caring about it in general. Even with NG+ being an option (not that it really is until the last tier releases), I still am for a delay between normal and Savage releases.

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Originally Posted by Akava

Another fix would be just talking with your static and starting savage a day later but people seem to get angry with that idea.

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Probably because the static’s goal is a Week 1 or early Week 2 clear. The normal raid stories tend to have a lot of dialogue, cutscenes, and setup; and it eats into progression time. Not all Week 1/Week 2 groups do the insane hours every day—some clear with 4-6 hours a night raiding. But that’s still eating into raid time.

Starting early isn't always an option since statics can include people that have school or jobs that prevent them from starting early. Taking time off isn’t a guarantee—especially when the patch releases are guesstimates until a couple weeks before release. A lot of places of employment require a minimum amount of time in advance for requests off. There’s an easy solution the developers already use at the start of an expansion—with the exact reasoning of allowing players to catch up and enjoy the story before Savage begins. Why is it so difficult to implement it for the second and third tiers?

The developers could just put a week delay between the two; or allow players to enter Savage without clearing the normals first. Either works for me, but even if they chose a delay, it’s not that big of a deal. You won’t lose anything.

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Originally Posted by Akava

I think it's a terrible idea and I hate it.

Thanks for coming to my TED talk.

Edit: There seems to be a misunderstanding. Yoshi said in a previous live letter that they were considering delaying the release of Savages by 2 weeks after normal. This is instead of only the first Savage of an expansion being delayed and the second and third tier coming out the same day as Normal.

This has nothing to do with COVID.

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riot hire this man

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

If they delay all the Savage fights, you aren't losing any content. The time between two Savage tiers will be exactly the same. You won't be waiting any longer than usual in the long run and it's not even a delay really. You can pretend Normal is getting released 2 weeks earlier if it helps you sleep better.

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They're also forgetting that Ultimate Dragonsong War is dropping next and a lot of people will be occupied with progging/farming that

So it's not like they're going to be starved of content.

Don't mind the extra 1 week delay. I was already telling myself how nice it would be to get 1 extra week this time.
Not so much that I can't get the crafted gear out in time but that it felt a little bad to /toss the crafted gear so quickly after making them.

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

I am not against a delay but..unless your racing for World first. Whats the big freakin hurry?? Lol

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Being geared faster means you can start optimizing, parsing or speedrunning, which several players aiming to clear early do. Savage is also at its most challenging in the early weeks due to less gear. Case in point, it takes near perfect play to beat P4S's door boss whereas several weeks of tome gear significantly reduces that difficulty.

A lot of players also like to frontload their raiding so they can take breaks to play other games, especially with Ultimate on the horizon. Furthermore, it often takes less time if you prog hard initially than over a span of weeks. My current group took about 45 hours spaced over two weeks whereas my previous, casual group, took 80+ over five weeks (six but that was more due to Christmas).

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Originally Posted by Reinha

I'd prefer it if savage raiders didn't have time to unlock materials and recipes, gather and craft before the raid and had to buy the gear off the market board. I'd also prefer if casuals who don't pentameld didn't have 2 weeks to get free normal raid gear before crafted gear comes out. Profits were terrible this time.

So I vote for things to be as they were before. Release normal, savage and anything related to crafting at the same time.

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This has very little to due with Savage being delayed two weeks and more with how absurdly easy crafting has become. There simply are too many crafters, too many bots and recipes are too easy for profits to ever be significant like they were in Heavensward or Stormblood. Even in Shadowbringers, prices tanked considerably fast.

Aww mmo speed running. The speed running with the lowest difficulty and skill needed for entry.