Undercutting

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Items you craft have your signature on them.

It's not a surefire way to find out who owns a retainer as people can relist others' items if they decide they don't need them or to try to control the market. But that's almost certainly how you were found out - the item signature.

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Oh duh, I should have realised that. Thank you!

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Originally Posted by Brian25

Yeah I have no idea how he did it, he must have seen me crafting a ton of them. But he messaged me something along the lines of "I know this may be weird but are you the jerk ruining the market?"

Even at 20k I was still nearly doubling my profit on each item, so it worked out in the end haha.

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... Except you can see the name of the crafter on every item they craft. It's, uh, kinda obvious, so I don't know why you're confused as to how this person found out. :P

EDIT: bah, beaten by another poster. oop.

Well, to add to this, I've repeatedly undercut someone by 1 gil just to tick them off if they've been undercutting me repeatedly. If they then decide to tank the market, I just move on to another item. /shrug

Yeah, if people continue to undercut me by a couple gil every couple minutes. I will just ruin the market for that item and make profit off something else. I don't have time to watch the market board for hours.

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Originally Posted by technole

As an end game crafter myself whom also undercuts and ensures fair value, undercutting subject comes up usually by first time crafters getting involved in savage drop day with crafted gear. They don't understand the market won't pay 3.5 million for a i580 chest, it's not even worth 25% of that in material costs. People who are in the club know how much material costs are and what a reasonable profit is, not something like 500%

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People pay that just fine and it should cost that much considering how much time, cost and effort it takes to reach that point as a omni gatherer / crafter plus the material expenses etc... Look at overmelding, it cost me like 15mil+ just for gathering. I don't remember how much it was for crafting and I didn't fully overmeld but it was about the same. There are those that just want to rule the MB and crash it on day 1, every time. Even though people are gladly paying millions for each piece of armor, they bring it down to 100k in a matter of hours. I don't understand their logic, maybe it's market bots gone wild, one-upping each other every few minutes? It happens every time and it's always the same people competing with each other. This is the perfect time to make everything overpriced because server hopping is problematic during peak-hours, but some people think a quick gil is a quick gil and nothing more. It's something we all learn to accept despite the real cost of gathering and crafting things should be much, much higher in reality. But as long as people are willing to sell at a cheap price, the market will always be against omni-gatherers and omni-crafters.

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Originally Posted by Eriane_Elis

People pay that just fine and it should cost that much considering how much time, cost and effort it takes to reach that point as a omni gatherer / crafter plus the material expenses etc... Look at overmelding, it cost me like 15mil+ just for gathering. I don't remember how much it was for crafting and I didn't fully overmeld but it was about the same. There are those that just want to rule the MB and crash it on day 1, every time. Even though people are gladly paying millions for each piece of armor, they bring it down to 100k in a matter of hours. I don't understand their logic, maybe it's market bots gone wild, one-upping each other every few minutes? It happens every time and it's always the same people competing with each other. This is the perfect time to make everything overpriced because server hopping is problematic during peak-hours, but some people think a quick gil is a quick gil and nothing more. It's something we all learn to accept despite the real cost of gathering and crafting things should be much, much higher in reality. But as long as people are willing to sell at a cheap price, the market will always be against omni-gatherers and omni-crafters.

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There's actually an economic term for this. It's known as "market correction." Google/your favorite search engine can cover the subject in depth.

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Originally Posted by Eriane_Elis

People pay that just fine and it should cost that much considering how much time, cost and effort it takes to reach that point as a omni gatherer / crafter plus the material expenses etc... Look at overmelding, it cost me like 15mil+ just for gathering. I don't remember how much it was for crafting and I didn't fully overmeld but it was about the same. There are those that just want to rule the MB and crash it on day 1, every time. Even though people are gladly paying millions for each piece of armor, they bring it down to 100k in a matter of hours. I don't understand their logic, maybe it's market bots gone wild, one-upping each other every few minutes? It happens every time and it's always the same people competing with each other. This is the perfect time to make everything overpriced because server hopping is problematic during peak-hours, but some people think a quick gil is a quick gil and nothing more. It's something we all learn to accept despite the real cost of gathering and crafting things should be much, much higher in reality. But as long as people are willing to sell at a cheap price, the market will always be against omni-gatherers and omni-crafters.

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How much time, cost and effort it took***
You can level all that stuff very fast with little effort now.

I undercut drastically sometimes simply because I felt like it. Some days I'm grumpy. Some days I'm feeling whimsical. Some days I just like round numbers. There's no rules against it, and I feel like I am just making items more accessible to more players. Somehow I'm still making money, so I have no reason to become more 'efficient'.

One time an angry competitor messaged me repeatedly and accused me of being a bot. They sent their FC mates to stalk me as well - 'trying to catch me in the act'. I reported them for harrassment and haven't heard from them since. People take the MB way too seriously. Last I checked, the Marketboard isn't the focus of the game.

Typically I don't undercut. I'll look at what the lowest price is, and list my item for exactly the same amount (or maybe I'll undercut a little to round out the price per item to a multiple of 5 just so the cost is cleaner)

If people are willing to buy at the listed price, there's no reason to undercut, or especially undercut dramatically. Just have a little patience, and yours will sell too... unless of course people crash the market, then even undercutting by only a little still won't have saved you.

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Originally Posted by LystAP

I undercut drastically sometimes simply because I felt like it. Some days I'm grumpy. Some days I'm feeling whimsical. Some days I just like round numbers. There's no rules against it, and I feel like I am just making items more accessible to more players. Somehow I'm still making money, so I have no reason to become more 'efficient'.

One time an angry competitor messaged me repeatedly and accused me of being a bot. They sent their FC mates to stalk me as well - 'trying to catch me in the act'. I reported them for harrassment and haven't heard from them since. People take the MB way too seriously. Last I checked, the Marketboard isn't the focus of the game.

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PVP in general tends to make people very emotional, sadly. It's why the devs had to take away chat from The Feast.

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Originally Posted by NegativeS

I recently read a thread where someone was denouncing people who undercut on the Market Board, which is something that took me by surprise. I figured that it was something that was normal in every MMO auction house-esque system, or at the very least that's the experience I got since it was prevalent in every MMO I've played up to this point... and in real-life...

But since I'm still relatively new and only just now getting the opportunity to participate in an early expansion economy, I just want to ask, because I've been absolutely vomiting materials onto the Market Board at undercut prices and smiling with greedy glee when they all sell before the person whom I have undercut.

Is this behaviour 'normal' or 'acceptable' in FFXIV?

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Depends. Undercutting by a few Gil is normal. Folks that drop the price by half are probably being bought out by folks like me that will turn around wait a few days then get 2x to 3x the price you listed for selling at the normal going rate.

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Originally Posted by Mirhd

... Except you can see the name of the crafter on every item they craft. It's, uh, kinda obvious, so I don't know why you're confused as to how this person found out. :P

EDIT: bah, beaten by another poster. oop.

Well, to add to this, I've repeatedly undercut someone by 1 gil just to tick them off if they've been undercutting me repeatedly. If they then decide to tank the market, I just move on to another item. /shrug

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Yeah, I've only relatively recently returned (late shadowbringers) after only hitting level 44 in ARR, so there are still a lot of nuances to this game that I am learning.

I'm a casual crafter/gatherer, so what I sell on the MB tends to be the small amounts of leftovers I have from gathering and crafting a few items for whatever reason. I'll typically price these leftovers at a "round" number near the current lowest listing, the idea being that I don't want to contribute towards an undercut-by-1-gil chain. I'll also update prices only once or twice a day. I figure, either:

- It's a seller's market, in which case my stack will sell without me having to have the absolute lowest price at all times.

- It's a buyer's market, in which case the price will drop without my help and I might as well save myself the trouble of following the drop each step of the way.

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Originally Posted by MilkieTea

undercutting by 1 gil is fine

tanking the market because you think itll sell ‘faster’ isn’t.

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Who made you the market czar? If someone wants to buy up everything they can worth over a million gil and sell it all for 1 gil a piece because it makes them happy? Great!

And if they want to undercut your prices, sell their item extremely quick and put more stuff up for sale in the now freed slots? Awesome!

Just because it isn't how /you/ want someone to play the game doesn't mean it's wrong. It's just wrong for /you/.

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Originally Posted by Rhysati

Who made you the market czar? If someone wants to buy up everything they can worth over a million gil and sell it all for 1 gil a piece because it makes them happy? Great!

And if they want to undercut your prices, sell their item extremely quick and put more stuff up for sale in the now freed slots? Awesome!

Just because it isn't how /you/ want someone to play the game doesn't mean it's wrong. It's just wrong for /you/.

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The problem with your logic is that by the time people area ready to buy the stacks of whatever you bought for 600gil to sell at 4000gil, the original seller will have already gathered another few stacks to sell at an abnormally low price. No one knows if they've been gathering non-stop the whole time or if they're just bots. People are free to do whatever they want in the market but it doesn't make it any more interesting if they screw it up for everyone. It's essentially market griefing and while not against the rules per-se unless they use bots to do it, it's still a pain in the arse to deal with. There are quite literally people fine making a 40k gil profit when they could be making 700k gil profit instead. But they chose to grief the market and keep griefing because for some reason in their mind, it's a reasonable price and they would feel guilty selling it anything higher. They don't realize that by doing this, they are upsetting people who are working their butt off to hand-craft or gather these things and consider the actual cost of everything involved up to that point. If they feel guilty for "overcharging" then they should also feel guilty for upsetting the market.

I don't care if people undercut as I make a lot of money from these people. Still, I don't understand the point of slashing the price of an item by +10% when an item has been selling pretty well at a certain price. Do the under cutters even check the sale history of an item?

When EW came out, materia was going for some pretty amazing prices except during weekend afternoons where prices would drop 80%... I had the choice to sell mine at similar prices or wait for the market to move up. I ended up buying about 60 lvl IX materia at 10-12k and resold them at 55k during the night in not even two hours.

As for overcharging, there is no such thing on the MB if the items are selling well. Market value is whatever people are ready to pay for an item at a given time.

It was really bad this patch, especially with crafted gear. I saw stuff drop to 1/100th of the original price in a matter of a couple days... and a lot of it was people undercutting by huge margins. Some of it I just didn't get, like good. Thavnairan Chai was selling for 8-9k a pop on my server for HQ and selling decently well. Next thing I know, some dude drops the price in half and it spiraled down from there.

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Originally Posted by Ryaz

It was really bad this patch, especially with crafted gear. I saw stuff drop to 1/100th of the original price in a matter of a couple days... and a lot of it was people undercutting by huge margins. Some of it I just didn't get, like good. Thavnairan Chai was selling for 8-9k a pop on my server for HQ and selling decently well. Next thing I know, some dude drops the price in half and it spiraled down from there.

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A lot of that has to do with the ease of access to crafting/gathering. Tomestone mats have also been very easy to get and sell. I can put a stack of 10 hides (usually amounting to around 150k) on the MB and it sells within a minute or so 9 times out of 10. The prices have dropped since day 1, sure, but they seem to be bottoming out a bit on my server, at least for now. A drop in prices was to be expected, and they will likely drop again soon.

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Originally Posted by Equitable_Remedy

I don't know where to begin with this.

Buyers want to buy at the lowest available price. If someone is willing to sell an item at a price lower than the price at which you are will to sell that same item, that someone does not have any obligation whatsoever to raise their price closer to yours. Either you lower your price, or you wait until the market clears all the sellers willing to sell for less than you.

Because, unlike the real world, your character doesn't need things like food, shelter, or clothing and doesn't want things like entertainment, sale prices are largely valuations of time (to farm a thing, craft a thing, roll for rare things, etc.). Different people value time and gil differently, which is why the clearing price for an item (say lvl 90 group maps) can vary significantly over time as different people with different values post.

That's called a market.

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The rest of the post exists.

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Originally Posted by Rhysati

Who made you the market czar? If someone wants to buy up everything they can worth over a million gil and sell it all for 1 gil a piece because it makes them happy? Great!

And if they want to undercut your prices, sell their item extremely quick and put more stuff up for sale in the now freed slots? Awesome!

Just because it isn't how /you/ want someone to play the game doesn't mean it's wrong. It's just wrong for /you/.

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as above.

Price things the way you want. You decide the value of your time, not others.

If someone thinks you've listed it too low, they're welcome to buy the item to relist for profit. That takes your low priced item off the mb and returns current prices to what they had been, usually before anyone other than the buyer has noticed.

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Originally Posted by GrizzlyTank

Only one way to get a definite end to undercutting. Buy orders.

AKA: Someone makes a request for an item for x amount of gil, and no one can sell below that amount until that buy order is fulfilled.
That way it would be significantly harder for someone to crash the value of items by grossly undercutting them.

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I list a buy order for 580 gear at 1 gil.

I didn't just crash your marketboard. I killed it. No one is going to sell to me for 1 gil because materials are more expensive but now they also can't sell to others because my buy order has to be filled first under your system.

The last thing you want to do is give buyers such absolute control over the market prices because they're looking to pay as little as possible just as sellers are trying to sell for as much as possible. That's why the free market exists - so a price point can be reached that both sides are willing to accept as reasonable.

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Originally Posted by Eriane_Elis

The problem with your logic is that by the time people area ready to buy the stacks of whatever you bought for 600gil to sell at 4000gil, the original seller will have already gathered another few stacks to sell at an abnormally low price. No one knows if they've been gathering non-stop the whole time or if they're just bots. People are free to do whatever they want in the market but it doesn't make it any more interesting if they screw it up for everyone. It's essentially market griefing and while not against the rules per-se unless they use bots to do it, it's still a pain in the arse to deal with. There are quite literally people fine making a 40k gil profit when they could be making 700k gil profit instead. But they chose to grief the market and keep griefing because for some reason in their mind, it's a reasonable price and they would feel guilty selling it anything higher. They don't realize that by doing this, they are upsetting people who are working their butt off to hand-craft or gather these things and consider the actual cost of everything involved up to that point. If they feel guilty for "overcharging" then they should also feel guilty for upsetting the market.

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If such prices are exceptionally low as you claim, bargain hunters will snatch up the items to relist long before the gatherer has their next stack ready to sell.

There is no griefing involved. They're selling at the price they find acceptable even if you don't like that price. You're always welcome to find other items they aren't selling and sell those instead.

I'd also love to see your realistic examples of items that players will happily pay 700k to buy when others are ready to sell at only 40k. The average player is not that rich and the player who is rich enough to afford that much probably got that way by doing their own farming instead of buying.

Let me make you angry. A while back, I wanted to get a Platinum Scarf of Slaying for an alt's transmog. I planned to be lazy and buy off the MB but they were going for 100k gil each, which was ridiculous considering I could buy the mats for about 1200 gil. I checked the sales history and sure enough, almost no one was buying them. There had been 2 sold in the last month and the sales history extended back 6 months to where the scarf had been selling fairly consistently at 10-15k before someone decided they wanted to jack up the price to 100k.

I'm now selling 10-15 Platinum Scarfs of Slaying at 10k gil each per week. I did play with the price at first to see what would work out best for profit by volume. Sales dropped off almost immediately when I tried posting them at 20k+. Dropping the price below 10k didn't increase the volume being sold so I settled at 10k.

Because I'm using an affordable price for the type of player most likely to buy (new players who have reached level 50 but don't even have access to tomestones yet), they're selling well compared to the dismal rate they were selling at prior to me "tanking" the market. I didn't tank it - I revived it. I'm not the only one selling them now. Other players have also been selling them at or slightly below my price in recent weeks. Compare that to the 1-2 per month being sold when I first went looking to buy one.

Greedy sellers are their own worst enemy because they kill their markets by listing at prices higher than players are willing (or frequently able) to pay. Profit is still profit. It adds up fast over time as you sell more.

Oh, I gladly undercut people, IF those people are selling things for ridiculous prices.

Like when the new Master recipes dropped, people were selling 1 serving of food for like 12k gil. Like no, I wont let you have that profit. I will undercut you to a more reasonable 3k-5k and flood that MB with the cheap food.
I am a c*nt ? HECK YEAH
When I did not had Gil and did not know how to make Gil in the game and was just leveling, I never could afford decent food from the MB. So if it means that some newb and or hardcore raider gets cheap food on your expanse, I will do it over and over again.

Isnt undercutting part of balancing the economy? If someone puts up a ton of stuff way low for the amount of effort to make/get it then you can buy out all their stuff and make a major profit. Then eventually the market stabilises behind a price right?

Sure it'd be nice if everything stayed at a million gill sale wise, but as patches continue and people jump into the market supply goes up and demand goes down, natural for prices to tank.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Price things the way you want. You decide the value of your time, not others.

If someone thinks you've listed it too low, they're welcome to buy the item to relist for profit. That takes your low priced item off the mb and returns current prices to what they had been, usually before anyone other than the buyer has noticed.


I list a buy order for 580 gear at 1 gil.

I didn't just crash your marketboard. I killed it. No one is going to sell to me for 1 gil because materials are more expensive but now they also can't sell to others because my buy order has to be filled first under your system.

The last thing you want to do is give buyers such absolute control over the market prices because they're looking to pay as little as possible just as sellers are trying to sell for as much as possible. That's why the free market exists - so a price point can be reached that both sides are willing to accept as reasonable.

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I've not seen a buy/sell system quite like the one Grizzly had mentioned, but I do like how it's handled in GW2. You can place a buy or sell order for whatever price you like, but no one is obligated or stuck just because someone low balled an item. You can still choose to sell at what price you like.

A visual:
https://i.imgur.com/bCPP8rI.jpg

So on that one, I guess if someone is feeling suuupuer charitable, they could actually sell that armor to the person requesting to buy it at 35 gold. Or they could insta-sell it to the top buy-request. OR list it at what they feel like and wait for someone to come along to buy it.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

I list a buy order for 580 gear at 1 gil.

I didn't just crash your marketboard. I killed it. No one is going to sell to me for 1 gil because materials are more expensive but now they also can't sell to others because my buy order has to be filled first under your system.

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Yeah you don't understand how it works at all.

Buy orders are not required to be filled. They're an option. No one would fill a stupidly low priced buy order, just like no one will buy a wind crystal priced at 999,999,999 gil.

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Originally Posted by Sclair0

Isnt undercutting part of balancing the economy? If someone puts up a ton of stuff way low for the amount of effort to make/get it then you can buy out all their stuff and make a major profit. Then eventually the market stabilises behind a price right?

Sure it'd be nice if everything stayed at a million gill sale wise, but as patches continue and people jump into the market supply goes up and demand goes down, natural for prices to tank.

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Yes, but a surprising amount of people don't actually want a free market. They want SE to control it for them so they can have 500~800% markup guaranteed. They just try to find more sympathetic ways to phrase it than this.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Yeah you don't understand how it works at all.

Buy orders are not required to be filled. They're an option. No one would fill a stupidly low priced buy order, just like no one will buy a wind crystal priced at 999,999,999 gil.

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Please read what they are replying to.

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Originally Posted by GrizzlyTank

Only one way to get a definite end to undercutting. Buy orders.

AKA: Someone makes a request for an item for x amount of gil, and no one can sell below that amount until that buy order is fulfilled.
That way it would be significantly harder for someone to crash the value of items by grossly undercutting them.

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Originally Posted by MilkieTea

Please read what they are replying to.

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I read it just fine - it seems you don't understand either.

So, let me explain.

Crystals are selling for 100 gil each. There is a buy order for crystals for 80 gil each.

Mr. Undercutter wants to sell his crystals for 50 gil each. But when he goes to list, instead of creating a listing of crystals for sale at 50 gil each, the buy orders for 80 gil each are automatically filled.

Creating a buy order for 1 gil each does nothing. If there's only buy orders for 1 gil, then Mr. Undercutter's crystals would be listed for 50 gil. (So it basically works exactly as now).

Really, I didn't think so many people could misunderstand what "below" means.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

I read it just fine - it seems you don't understand either.

So, let me explain.

Crystals are selling for 100 gil each. There is a buy order for crystals for 80 gil each.

Mr. Undercutter wants to sell his crystals for 50 gil each. But when he goes to list, instead of creating a listing of crystals for sale at 50 gil each, the buy orders for 80 gil each are automatically filled.

Creating a buy order for 1 gil each does nothing. If there's only buy orders for 1 gil, than Mr. Undercutter's crystals would be listed for 50 gil.

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That's not what they're saying though. Reread it, carefully. The way they're phrasing things implies that the system is not opt in, but rather forced. I understand what you are saying.

If person "A" sells Crystals for 50 gil, let's call him Mr. Normal just because. If Mr. Normal puts up Crystals for 50 gil, he's golden. So far, he's not doing anything wrong if crystals are going for roughly 50 gil anyways. He's not affected by what comes next, since his were put up before.

Someone could, then, put up a buy order for 500 gil, and because no one can undercut him, someone could effectively control the market with one alt. The only effective way of doing such a system would make it so that the system is opt in, and not forced.

I don't like massive undercutters, but I also don't appreciate people effectively holding a market hostage to the highest bidder.

Put things up with whatever price makes you happy, The market will correct. If an item is high demand, someone will buy everything up cheap and re-list higher anyway.

Re: Buy orders and sell orders/How it works in GW2

Wind crystals are on sale:
1,000 at 75 gil
another 1,000 available at 100 gil
a final 5,000 at 500 gil

Bill makes a new sell order: 100 wind crystals at a price of 50 gil, currently making a new lowest price.

Ted puts in a buy order: 5,000 crystals at 50 gil.

Then, Don puts in a buy order: 5,000 wind crystals at a price of 200 gil.

What happens:

Bill’s 100 crystals sell first, at 50g each, to Ted.

Then Ted still has a remaining 4,900 crystals he wants to buy for 50g each but no one is selling at that price.

Don then gets all 1,000 at 75 gil, then 1,000 at 100 gil. He still needs 3,000 but no one is selling at 200 gil or less.

And then the market shows:

There are 5,000 available at 500 gil. (The current lowest “want to sell” ceiling)
There is a buy order that wants a further 3,000 crystals at 200 gil each. (The current highest “want to buy” floor)
Ted has to wait until Don gets all of his crystals, raise his buy price above 200 gil, or just buy the current available stock at 500 gil.

Current Wind Crystal Celing/Floor: 5,000@500g / 3,000@200g

Other random players who want to buy or sell quickly need to price somewhere between that ceiling/floor. Or match the current ceiling/floor as a kind of “buy/sell it now” option.

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The only way to tank this is to be able to put in a massive buy or sell order that no one can compete with, in which case you will lose lots of money buying stock at overpriced value or by selling too cheap. Or alternatively controlling the supply (which is impossible in this game; there aren’t limited notorious monster drops/resource nodes/etc that players can monopolize)

As long as they sell for outrageous prices, people will be riding that gravy train. And as soon as they get too cheap to be worth the time, people stop farming them.

but where and how does a item get it's value is there some sort of math involved because by the sounds of it anyone can just make a amount up that is the issue with player based economies anyone can just make something up. Though you hate being undercut but in a market it's fair game if you sold something for 100k and I sold it for 50k then customers would rather pay 50k then 100k realistically

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Price things the way you want. You decide the value of your time, not others.

If someone thinks you've listed it too low, they're welcome to buy the item to relist for profit. That takes your low priced item off the mb and returns current prices to what they had been, usually before anyone other than the buyer has noticed.


I list a buy order for 580 gear at 1 gil.

I didn't just crash your marketboard. I killed it. No one is going to sell to me for 1 gil because materials are more expensive but now they also can't sell to others because my buy order has to be filled first under your system.

The last thing you want to do is give buyers such absolute control over the market prices because they're looking to pay as little as possible just as sellers are trying to sell for as much as possible. That's why the free market exists - so a price point can be reached that both sides are willing to accept as reasonable.

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Re-read what i wrote... "Someone makes a request for an item for x amount of gil, and no one can sell below that amount until that buy order is fulfilled."

If someone makes a buy order at 1gil, then someone can still sell their item at whatever gil they want as long as it is at or above 1 gil.
At the same time someone else can set a higher buy order meaning that, that order has to be fulfilled before yours.

Edit: Just saw that there were multiple people that... Somehow had no idea of what i wrote. Risvertasashi and Skivvy you got it right. I was mainly talking about how GW2 does it, although there it goes both ways. For buyer you have to either make a buy order for whatever gil, or buy the item listed for lowest sell order. Aka if an item is sold for 80, 90, 100 you can either set a buy order for <80 gil or you have to purchase the item for 80 gil, can't buy the items for 90 or 100 untill the 80 item is sold.

Same for a seller, if someone want to sell an item and there are buy orders for 10, 20 and 30 gil. then the seller can set whatever price they want as long as it is above 30gil, or sell directly to the buy order for 30 gil, but can't sell directly to the 20 and 10 buy orders.

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Originally Posted by MilkieTea

I don't like massive undercutters, but I also don't appreciate people effectively holding a market hostage to the highest bidder.

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Looking at GW2, the market there isn't held at hostage at all, rather the prices are stabilized for it's supply and demand. More supply than demand and prices drop, demand than supply the prices rise. It's just that no single person can just say this 1000gil item is now worth 200g and have other people unknowingly assisting keeping the price grossly deflated.

I have no crafting skills. I do not care to craft. My character is a level 90 miner and level 90 botanist. I make most of my Gil by selling gathered materials to the market board. That having been said, I have NO PROBLEM with undercutting and selling for lower amounts. It benefits the crafters in my guild. Heck, it benefits ALL crafters. Eventually their prices go down as it becomes less costly for them to make items and competition spurs them to lower their prices. On occasion there will be gathered items that are in demand and you can make a few extra Gil for a while selling those items. But eventually the market corrects itself again and prices drop back down. Honestly, if people want to make good coin by selling on the market board, they should be prepared to put a little effort into understanding the economics of the system. I think some people expect to make a fortune with a single item. Time and time again, my experience with the market board has shown that this is not a "California style gold rush". It's more of a "slow and steady wins the day". In short, I think the market boards are working as intended.

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Originally Posted by MilkieTea

undercutting by 1 gil is fine

tanking the market because you think itll sell ‘faster’ isn’t.

if something is selling at 80k gil (and i mean selling, not sitting there), either price at 80k or 79,999. you make more money, the market doesn’t tank, everyone wins. people will ALMOST always buy the first one on the list anyways, regardless of if its insanely cheap or priced right at market value. you simply shoot yourself in the foot, as well as everyone else.

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You are missing out on an opportunity. If something is on the market for around 60k and there is one outlier at 30k, that is not tanking the market. That is your golden opportunity to buy the outlier and flip it to sell at the higher price.

All is fair but at the end of the day there are some fundamental truths. This is something people have been complaining about forever and in all likelihood they will continue complaining about it for decades to come.

I don't think it's necessary to take the discussions too seriously. Allusions to economy from a perspective of people in a world with scarcity and finite resources doesn't fit too well with a game where resources are theoretically infinite and non essential. In that sense throughput always plays a bigger role than anything else. Everything else is roleplaying economics.

Literally not a problem and does not need a solution.

If someone is willing to sell for 20% lower price, it's their right to do so. If you believe they're underpricing, simply buy it and resell for easy profit or wait for it to bought. If not, adjust your overpriced item.

Excess supply is pushing the price down towards equilibrium. Do not expect to sell your extremely easy to craft item for a ridiculously high price and you won't get mad about the economy working properly.

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Originally Posted by GrizzlyTank

Looking at GW2, the market there isn't held at hostage at all, rather the prices are stabilized for it's supply and demand. More supply than demand and prices drop, demand than supply the prices rise. It's just that no single person can just say this 1000gil item is now worth 200g and have other people unknowingly assisting keeping the price grossly deflated.

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Another good part of the GW2 system is you can purchase as few items as you want - just want 10 silver ingots but everyone lists stacks of 99 - no problem. Granted having such a system in FFXIV would take a massive amount of development time but it would solve the perceived problem.

All I know is if someone undercuts me on some random item that doesn't even sell often, I will go out of my way to find every retainer they have and forcibly drop their prices by 20-30% out of sheer spite. Made a killing on Deep-fried Okeanis doing that.

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Originally Posted by Eraden

I have no crafting skills. I do not care to craft. My character is a level 90 miner and level 90 botanist. I make most of my Gil by selling gathered materials to the market board. That having been said, I have NO PROBLEM with undercutting and selling for lower amounts. It benefits the crafters in my guild. Heck, it benefits ALL crafters. Eventually their prices go down as it becomes less costly for them to make items and competition spurs them to lower their prices. On occasion there will be gathered items that are in demand and you can make a few extra Gil for a while selling those items. But eventually the market corrects itself again and prices drop back down. Honestly, if people want to make good coin by selling on the market board, they should be prepared to put a little effort into understanding the economics of the system. I think some people expect to make a fortune with a single item. Time and time again, my experience with the market board has shown that this is not a "California style gold rush". It's more of a "slow and steady wins the day". In short, I think the market boards are working as intended.

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You're not wrong regarding a lot of things in this game, but whenever there is a new fancy-pants thing that people are impatient over, it costs a ton and can be extremely profitable to sell them. Especially materials for the newest glamour (usually locked in treasure hunts), the actual glamours themselves or the newest minions. Right now we're talking the "XX of Happiness" set.

At any rate, there are so many avenues to make money in this game that the market is entirely unnecessary for making cash long term. Essentially anything you do can net money- so if you've found a niche that works for you, work it!

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Originally Posted by BaconBits

All I know is if someone undercuts me on some random item that doesn't even sell often, I will go out of my way to find every retainer they have and forcibly drop their prices by 20-30% out of sheer spite. Made a killing on Deep-fried Okeanis doing that.

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That seems a bit... excessive. However, nothing is stopping them from buying your stuff and flipping it instead of reducing their price. A 20-30% profit isn't bad.

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Originally Posted by KitKatnip

That seems a bit... excessive. However, nothing is stopping them from buying your stuff and flipping it instead of reducing their price. A 20-30% profit isn't bad.

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It's not about winning, it's about sending a message.

That and for some reason instead of just buying the Okeanis and being done with it, they kept trying to undercut me instead. Unfortunately for them, I was on leave for almost a month and had nothing better to do. By the time my leave was up, the price of deep-fried okeanis had dropped by like 70-80%, and other people had joined in on the fun. I think I did that with 5 other items they were selling as well.

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Originally Posted by BaconBits

It's not about winning, it's about sending a message.

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Not really sure what the message is. For all we know they bought up your 80% off firesale and just sat on it to sell when prices rebounded.

Unless you've been monopolizing these 3-4 items for months, in which case I'd say they're selling other items and got to live in your head rent free.