We need more GMs in the forums.

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Originally Posted by Shibi

Did we ever work out if MPK and Titanmen are the same person?

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No. Why would you ever think that.

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Originally Posted by NegativeS

I mean, I agree, but I'm sure Titanmen and his 20 alts are flocking here as I type to denounce you. /s

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As long as people keep posting in that Thavnair thread, I don't think TitanMen will bother posting anything new, heh.

The sheer arrogance of demanding stricter rules and enforcment over what people can and can't say is something I will never understaned. It clearly comes from a position of believing it will be opposing views that will get punitive measures, not ones own.

These forums are moderated, the moderators just don't make posts, they are here though. I can't have been the only person who looked on in amazment as last months thread about a female only discord spent most of the week losing pages faster than it was gaining them.

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Originally Posted by SaberMaxwell

Careful. I know a person who got perma'd for that very three letter word.

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The forums uses a 3 strike policy so if that person got perma'd if was on their final. Though I've heard cases of people getting banned twice while already being banned because another mod looked at the offending post, which suggests they don't really communicate with each other on infractions.

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Originally Posted by Rinhi

they should show some more presence, though, and should actually read some of the threads where they remove posts
losing multiple pages of discussion despite it being a civil one is weird, seeing many posts where others are subtly or not so subtly insulting another, homo- or transphobic or racist posts not getting deleted is even more weird

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At most a single GM(who's the head GM) will say something if the fuss is big enough and the last time that happened was when people brought up making a procedure to appeal bans.

As for posts deleted, keep in mind we all have the ability to delete our own posts, but it's safe to assume a mod nuked half a thread and it's probably because of mass reports.

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Originally Posted by van_arn

The gms do watch these forums. I’ve gotten spanked (for good reason in hindsight) before.

They just don’t fly off the handle at everything and anything.

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I got a suspension for calling out someone on their BS and stating that nobody cares about their legend status(give you one guess who I'm referring to here). Though, I did say flying firetruck(without the fire) when I said nobody it. Something like "nobody gives a flying ....." and got suspended for it. Yet, them calling people trash and insulting everyone left, right, and center. And trolling to no ends, goes unpunished. Makes you wonder who the mods are sometimes.

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Originally Posted by Batbrat

How do you threaten someone here? What's he going to do, glare at his screen?
Too many of you follow him around being outraged at his outrage. Just ignore him if you hate his takes.

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hey, it's the first time since the FC stuff I've interacted with him, so cut me some slack :P

character/social assassination comes to mind, if a whole FC spreads nasty rumours about you and stuff, you can bet even some your friends would distance themselves somewhat or completely, especially on the very social server that is balmung
there's quite a few google docs made by victims of exactly that, usually over misunderstandings, difference in opinions or other arbitrary reasons[/QUOTE]

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Originally Posted by Batbrat

And it may not be favorable that he's the one bringing it up, but he isnt wrong to ask where the GM presence is. There have been quite a few risky posts lately, even with blatant full letter Fbomb cursing. So yes, it's normal to wonder when they're going to step in more. Even if his reasons for asking are purely selfish, the question in itself still stands and is still valid. Too many people respond to everything with emotional backstories-I'm sorry about whatever little FC that had some little problem...it's irrelevant to this question so. It's not hard to look at things objectively even if you dislike someone, idk why so many struggle with that. A broken clock is right twice a day-whether you like it or not, the worst person you know sometimes makes a great point.

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hell, I completely agree with it, as you could see with my edit, so no argument from me there! but I couldn't just let it stand that it's an innocent poster talking about it, is all
like, MPK's threads have really good points sometimes, as do Titanmen threads

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Originally Posted by Batbrat

If he's a troll, then he's a successful one because look at how many responses he gets. He posts for attention and people show right up to give it to him, right on time. Just like that roe and that lala who post bait threads too. If people are angry at trolls for trolling then they're angry at the wrong targets. Ah right, speaking of platters; ff14forums_txt although that ones harmless aaand there was a person who had an entire kiwi thread about them too. So it does happen. but not enough to be worried about.

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of course he's a good troll, I'd never argue otherwise, he know that that overly virtuous gimmick works people into a shoot or even get people to agree with him at times (usually when it's toned a bit down)
it was a bit funny seeing some old troll threads being bumped where he was the OP, in response to the "I'm getting bullied" thread, while at the same time he was agreeing with the person (Titanmen) that was actually making fun of him and bumping those threads
like, that exchange solidified (for me) that he was a troll, because there's no way someone can be that oblivious when multiple people pointed it out that the guy he's agreeing with is actively trolling him, completely ignoring their posts

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Originally Posted by Batbrat

Everyone expects 4chan to be lawless, just as they expect Twitter to be offended and Reddit to make everything into 47 memes. Official forums shouldnt be lawless because it looks bad to potential future customers. 'well potential future customers should get thicker skin!!' and someone should run a business with that exact mindset and then come back to me so I can assist them with their EDD forms.

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all 3 places are various kinds of hugboxes, from what little I've seen of them and I completely agree with you on this, too, though some thicker skin for some terminally online people would be helpful, tbh

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Originally Posted by Batbrat

Ah right, speaking of platters; ff14forums_txt although that ones harmless aaand there was a person who had an entire kiwi thread about them too. So it does happen. but not enough to be worried about.

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first time I'm hearing about the kiwi thread, I assume it was about the balance drama a while ago?
but also, notice how he's completely ignoring my posts asking for proof? because he never provides any for his various claims when trolling and gullible people fall for it because why would someone lie about that? (and yes I know, he doesn't have to, yadda yadda, but it'd only solidify his position and argument and weaken mine, yet there's nothing, just like when he was "harassed by people from here")
I just don't like people that lie about these things

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Originally Posted by Quintessa

The forums uses a 3 strike policy so if that person got perma'd if was on their final. Though I've heard cases of people getting banned twice while already being banned because another mod looked at the offending post, which suggests they don't really communicate with each other on infractions.

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only 3 strikes? jesus christ, considering the inane and miniscule things some people got banned for (i.e. making jokes)

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Originally Posted by Quintessa

As for posts deleted, keep in mind we all have the ability to delete our own posts, but it's safe to assume a mod nuked half a thread and it's probably because of mass reports.

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oh no, it was definitely mod nukes, everyone involved in the discussions was completely dumbfounded why it was completely removed, though the 3 times that I've seen it, 2 of them were discussions about community experiences, so I "get" why it was removed since you gotta keep up a good image, after all
can't talk about your bad experiences on here, either, it seems, which sucks for the people that have bad experiences

not to mention that it's really, really bad that mass reports can get utilized like that

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Originally Posted by Avatre

I got a suspension for calling out someone on their BS and stating that nobody cares about their legend status(give you one guess who I'm referring to here). Though, I did say flying firetruck(without the fire) when I said nobody it. Something like "nobody gives a flying ....." and got suspended for it. Yet, them calling people trash and insulting everyone left, right, and center. And trolling to no ends, goes unpunished. Makes you wonder who the mods are sometimes.

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that, too, as I've said multiple times before, you see plenty of people insult and degrade others and get no repercussions, most of the time not even subtle and they've gotten for sure reported by multiple people as well - and then you see people seemingly randomly getting banned and hit by the hammer for things like saying frick, shoot or other legit non-issues
it's really, really weird moderation here at times

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Originally Posted by Shibi

Did we ever work out if MPK and Titanmen are the same person?

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As MPK and Titanmen alt, i can say for certain they are different people.

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

There are several twitters that mock this place, someone was LITERALLY BEING A RACIST toward African Americans today, and the post is STILL UP.

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No one cares about Twitter, Twitter is a meme in and of itself.

On the second point, I see extreme amounts of racism towards '' white people '' constantly online ( to the point I've blocked terms like that altogether on Twitter because my entire timeline was just constant racism if I allowed it amongst others too yes '' black people '' included ).
It's for some absurd reason socially acceptable on the internet and very popularized amongst big Streamers and e-celebs ( tho granted there has been a little pushback as of late at least. ).
Racism is bad it doesn't matter who it's directed towards and I've seen racist statements towards '' white people '' on this forum too ( and been banned for calling it out because I let an f-bomb out which they reported me for... ).

I am assuming that you mean '' black people '' too and not actually just African Americans.
If you see someone being racist report them, don't respond to them if you get mad they might report you and get you banned...
But lets not pretend like this is something that's just about this specific group, this isn't an American politics forum and it isn't an American game.

I don't see too many issues with the forums. Sure there are some troll posts, but those are easy to ignore. Can anybody link some examples of toxicity in these forums? I'm honestly pretty skeptical about it.

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Originally Posted by Quintessa

The forums uses a 3 strike policy so if that person got perma'd if was on their final. Though I've heard cases of people getting banned twice while already being banned because another mod looked at the offending post, which suggests they don't really communicate with each other on infractions.


At most a single GM(who's the head GM) will say something if the fuss is big enough and the last time that happened was when people brought up making a procedure to appeal bans.

As for posts deleted, keep in mind we all have the ability to delete our own posts, but it's safe to assume a mod nuked half a thread and it's probably because of mass reports.

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Two strike, actually, and until recently there was no punishment decay. And yes, there were two infractions, though they were two years apart and the one that got them perma'd was that three letter word despite an apology and multiple appeals.

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

I have never seen this games forums so toxic in all of my life. It has become so apparently toxic, if you even mention this place outside of the forums, people will laugh and eyeroll anyone who participates here. That isn't good.
What is supposed to be a place of constructive criticism and feedback has become a place that reminds me of the real world we live in. Fiercely divided, ruined by trolls, and negative people who don't care about anybody else.

For a long time I have loved to participate here, but I find my blood boiling so much at some of the posts, replies, and comments here, that I have had to actually force myself to stay logged off on my mobile devices, and only on my home computer. That way I can only browse, and not be in a perpetual state of anger, and disappointment. I have to actually force myself to have self control, so that I don't live to regret how I react to some of the vile things that happen here.

This place should be a place that reflects the community in a good light, so that we are heard by devs when we feel we need to voice our wishes and concerns for FFXIV as a whole. Not a place where people get laughed at, mocked, and harassed just because they share a different point of view, or happen to be the victim of an online hate mob for a day.

There are several twitters that mock this place, and take the most awful posts for people to look at and laugh. There's even threads where people on other forums talk about who to bash, doxx, and brigade here. They are actively targeting people that some do not agree with, and creating issues. We need more involvement from the people that run these forums. This forum has lost its way. I am deeply concerned about how people are affected by the lack of oversight here. With that said, I don't want the place to be locked down to the point where we cannot relax, and talk freely. We just need way more middle ground, because it's become obvious that things are way to lax here. People get away with way too much negativity and hate that shouldn't be tolerated. I watched as someone was LITERALLY BEING A RACIST toward African Americans today, and the post is STILL UP. This is just one tiny sliver of the discourse we have gone on. These kinds of things happen everyday, and I don't think the staff that SE has allotted for the forums can keep up. It is plainly obvious. Please do something.

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You know there was a huge purge back in 2.0, right? A lot of ppl got banned/expelled from the forums.

I've been on these forums since 2014 (despite what my join date says, its actually wrong). And I personally have felt these forums have gotten progressively more toxic over the years. I think people are getting more and more comfortable of what they can and cannot get away with.

The things that really trigger me on here though is all the passive aggressiveness. I'm sure some is sarcasm but tone in text is really difficult to discern. There are trolls but there have always been trolls and always will be trolls. There is however something that makes me cringe far more than the trolls though and that's all the attempts' people make to fish for likes as if it's reddit karma. I hate going into threads and just seeing the word "okay Karen" tossed around all the time derailing conversation and discussion. I don't like going into threads and seeing the same "This is bait" meme copy and repasted 100 times and multiple people hitting like on each one. I don't like going into threads and seeing people called Titan Man every single time the topic doesn't make sense. There are other people trolling than just Titan Man you know. Honestly this list could keep going on and on but I'm not really trying to complain. I'm just basically stating that the community here, the replies to posts are sometimes just as toxic or meaningless or inflammatory as half the OPs of said threads. It's like people go into these threads with the sole intention of trying to find whatever method they can to call OPs out or bash them or something. Just wish we could have some more positivity and politeness around here and ignore problematic threads instead of keeping them on the front page for months to try and get a few thumbs up by insulting each other.

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Originally Posted by SaberMaxwell

Two strike, actually, and until recently there was no punishment decay.

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Is the punishment decay applicable to the forums or is it merely tied to in-game punishments?

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Is the punishment decay applicable to the forums or is it merely tied to in-game punishments?

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I kind of assumed (hoped) it was both, but it might just be in-game.

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Originally Posted by Rinhi

it was a bit funny seeing some old troll threads being bumped where he was the OP, in response to the "I'm getting bullied" thread, while at the same time he was agreeing with the person (Titanmen) that was actually making fun of him and bumping those threads
like, that exchange solidified (for me) that he was a troll, because there's no way someone can be that oblivious when multiple people pointed it out that the guy he's agreeing with is actively trolling him, completely ignoring their posts

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Lmao I remember that!

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Originally Posted by SaberMaxwell

Two strike

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definitely not two strikes, as I'm still posting :P
(both strikes were a joke tbh)

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Originally Posted by Remish

I don't like going into threads and seeing people called Titan Man every single time the topic doesn't make sense. There are other people trolling than just Titan Man you know. Honestly this list could keep going on and on but I'm not really trying to complain.

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Nah, I like it. It gives me an ego!

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

Snip

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So what makes you the arbiter of what’s toxic, trolling and harassment? You yourself are extremely controversial with implementing your real world views, buzzwords and ideologies. Some people may even find you to be more y to icicle than those you find yourself disagreeing with.

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

So what makes you the arbiter of what’s toxic, trolling and harassment? You yourself are extremely controversial with implementing your real world views, buzzwords and ideologies. Some people may even find you to be more y to icicle than those you find yourself disagreeing with.

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Be more toxic* omg sry. Autocorrect

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Originally Posted by Rinhi

definitely not two strikes, as I'm still posting :P
(both strikes were a joke tbh)

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Interesting. Well I can confirm without a doubt my friend was gone in two strikes and all appeals were flat out rejected so maybe they've changed their policies :shrug:

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Originally Posted by Rinhi

definitely not two strikes, as I'm still posting :P
(both strikes were a joke tbh)

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Yeah, I'd say it just depends on how severe the forum mods see an infraction. This is just another reason why I censor words even in quotes on here, and don't curse at all in-game either.

The problem really just becomes consistency. For the same word in the same tone as the poster I quoted, my friend got perma'd despite it only having been their second infraction, with their first having been two years prior to that. Yet equivalent and far worse stuff goes unpunished on the forums all the time.

It's pretty whatever about my friends case though, they've made their peace with it and live vicariously through me here now. Just one of those things yknow? Lol

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Originally Posted by SaberMaxwell

The problem really just becomes consistency.

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yeah that's my issue with the moderation, too, as I've mentioned plenty of times
you see/hear people getting hit for harmless comments that don't insult anybody and are meant in jest - banned for 7-14 days
troll threads by known trolls that have nothing to do with FF? unpunished and allowed to stay
comment in a thread that it's likely that it's getting mass reported and brigaded by an FC as everyone but one persons comments are getting deleted from the argument? banned for 7-14 days
defend yourself against someone clearly having a meltdown that's accusing you of stalking and harassing because your forum name is similar to the name of the ex of the person having the melty? banned because you told them they need help, not even joking, meanwhile the accuser wasn't hit despite namecalling the banned person, too
people making racist, homo/transphobic or mean spirited comments and jokes? not banned
people subtly but most of the time, not so subtly insulting others? not banned
people straight up insulting others? nothing, nada

I know I'm a broken record abt this stuff but it's honestly baffling, getting banned almost 2 months after I've made a joke at no one's expense in a troll thread is kind of fricked up, kaoru nagisa also got banned for a several month old comment that also wasn't insulting or anything

Maybe it depends on how many bother to report a person also? Some people have multiple accounts that they can easily use to report people in those threads.

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

I have never seen this games forums so toxic in all of my life.

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FFXIV's official forums are VERY tame compared to the official forums of many other games I played. I have regularly seen truly horrendous stuff elsewhere that I literally cannot repeat here because that would get me a very swift ban.

Does this mean I think this place is all sunshine and roses? No, it's not. There's a noticeable amount of toxicity here for sure. On some days it's really really bad. But there's enough good here that I keep coming back. Some of you peeps have very interesting and funny things to say.

Yeah no, I like being able to voice opinions you disagree with. Trans people dont belong in womens bathrooms. Thats my opinion and it never fails to start dox attempts, cancel sprees and reports. Go back to twitter if you want a heavily moderated hellhole where only your line of thinking is echod back to you and all over the place endlessly.

So tired of the massive amounts of cringe players on my male viera race dude.

Compared to other forums this place isn’t bad. You get trolls and shock jocks baiting for replies and attention and I’d agree they need to go. I’d like to not just have a little more moderation but I’d love for them to pop into threads and reply.

But as the saying goes, be careful what you wish for. We could get fully active moderation, which could go skynet on us.

And what would mods do about twitter? Anyone can screenshot and share lol

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

I watched as someone was LITERALLY BEING A RACIST toward African Americans today, and the post is STILL UP. This is just one tiny sliver of the discourse we have gone on. These kinds of things happen everyday, and I don't think the staff that SE has allotted for the forums can keep up. It is plainly obvious. Please do something.

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They're probably way too understaffed to do anything :(

You never know if there is GM's on the forum, they could be posting with their game accounts and not their GM account.

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

I have never seen this games forums so toxic in all of my life. It has become so apparently toxic, if you even mention this place outside of the forums, people will laugh and eyeroll anyone who participates here. That isn't good.
What is supposed to be a place of constructive criticism and feedback has become a place that reminds me of the real world we live in. Fiercely divided, ruined by trolls, and negative people who don't care about anybody else.

For a long time I have loved to participate here, but I find my blood boiling so much at some of the posts, replies, and comments here, that I have had to actually force myself to stay logged off on my mobile devices, and only on my home computer. That way I can only browse, and not be in a perpetual state of anger, and disappointment. I have to actually force myself to have self control, so that I don't live to regret how I react to some of the vile things that happen here.

This place should be a place that reflects the community in a good light, so that we are heard by devs when we feel we need to voice our wishes and concerns for FFXIV as a whole. Not a place where people get laughed at, mocked, and harassed just because they share a different point of view, or happen to be the victim of an online hate mob for a day.

There are several twitters that mock this place, and take the most awful posts for people to look at and laugh. There's even threads where people on other forums talk about who to bash, doxx, and brigade here. They are actively targeting people that some do not agree with, and creating issues. We need more involvement from the people that run these forums. This forum has lost its way. I am deeply concerned about how people are affected by the lack of oversight here. With that said, I don't want the place to be locked down to the point where we cannot relax, and talk freely. We just need way more middle ground, because it's become obvious that things are way to lax here. People get away with way too much negativity and hate that shouldn't be tolerated. I watched as someone was LITERALLY BEING A RACIST toward African Americans today, and the post is STILL UP. This is just one tiny sliver of the discourse we have gone on. These kinds of things happen everyday, and I don't think the staff that SE has allotted for the forums can keep up. It is plainly obvious. Please do something.

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They are here and if you overstep, they will do something about it, and I notice that you don't like peoples replies, if anything, mostly due to that they may have pointed at the ToS to help out for stuff not happening again... and that get put in jail really takes something in a wrong direction to end up there to begin with.

The OP is spot-on.
The only people who like the forum are the same dozen-or-so people who immediately shoot down every opinion that isn't liked by them and thus the echo chamber continues.

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Originally Posted by hynaku

You never know if there is GM's on the forum, they could be posting with their game accounts and not their GM account.

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There's at least one former GM who engages with the community on the Balance.

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

We need more GMs

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You have made 3 threads complaining about people bullying you, perhaps it's time to just leave then. This is Poe's law at work, idk if you are someone creating bait threads or genuinely this stupid.

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

The OP is spot-on.
The only people who like the forum are the same dozen-or-so people who immediately shoot down every opinion that isn't liked by them and thus the echo chamber continues.

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This is true. For you too even. The forums have people that frequent a lot so you notice the same names constantly. those people have certain beliefs and visions. Doesn’t mean they are an echo chamber. The echo chamber only starts when you don’t allow those who think differently than you to have a voice.

You and I see things very differently, yet, here we both are

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Originally Posted by MementoKoishi

You have made 3 threads complaining about people bullying you, perhaps it's time to just leave then. This is Poe's law at work, idk if you are someone creating bait threads or genuinely this stupid.

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He has but most of them are necro'd by Titanman who has singled Damian out. If you look at the date of most of the threads, they were made well over a year ago.

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Originally Posted by icemage

There's at least one former GM who engages with the community on the Balance.

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Feels like someone I wish I could meet. But I don't interact with the Balance discord outside of recruiting and occasional questions. For the most part, it's about as toxic as here if not worse at times.