More downgrades...(Pandaemonium Savage spoilers)

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Originally Posted by BaconBits

The fact it took only 3 minutes for someone to try and shame you because of your disappointment in the music is actually kind of wild lmao.

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People will defend this game to their last breath, even if it means getting dirty.

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Originally Posted by kpxmanifesto

People will defend this game to their last breath, even if it means getting dirty.

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"Man it kinda sucks that this raid tier only got 2 songs."

"Oh so you don't care that Soken was suffering from cancer?"

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/rClNZLXSKA8/maxresdefault.jpg

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Originally Posted by kpxmanifesto

People will defend this game to their last breath, even if it means getting dirty.

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They even used "Soken had cancer you know". Trying to imply that OP is some kind of monster.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

So just found out that the p2 of P4s doesnt even have a new theme... its the same theme. We're only getting 2 new songs in this raid tier as opposed to Eden's what, 3-4? Along with no voice acting. How many more downgrades at this rate jesus...

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I mean, its not like EW totally happened during a global pandemic and Japan itself completely locked down for months forcing them to transition their entire development team to a work from home.....Oh and Soken had cancer and was composing songs while in the hospital......Forgive me if I'm a little more lenient than usual towards the overall product of EW, especially given the massive scale of the story being the epic end of an 8 year arc.

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Originally Posted by BaconBits

"Man it kinda sucks that this raid tier only got 2 songs."

"Oh so you don't care that Soken was suffering from cancer?"

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Originally Posted by Driavna

They even used "Soken had cancer you know". Trying to imply that OP is some kind of monster.

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Yeah, it's a textbook example of gaslighting.

Soundtrack in general was quite unimaginative and mediocre this expansion - except for the 1st dark ambient'ish "rendition" of Ultima Thule theme, I really liked it. Too bad they just had to change it to the generic InSpIrAtIoNaL normie soft-rock. Hehe.

Especially in comparison with recently released SMT V . . .

Actually, I'm probably wrong but it seems there are two composers this time around, and Soken wasn't even listed in the credits:

https://i.imgur.com/D8XSWNH.png

I probably somehow didn't see him.

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Originally Posted by kpxmanifesto

Yeah, it's a textbook example of gaslighting.

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It's rather emotionally manipulative, but it isn't gaslighting. Gaslighting involves making someone question their own perception of reality.

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Originally Posted by CyanTea

Soundtrack in general was quite unimaginative and mediocre this expansion - except for the 1st dark ambient'ish "rendition" of Ultima Thule theme, I really liked it. Too bad they just had to change it to the generic InSpIrAtIoNaL normie soft-rock.

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That muffled instrumental Ultima Thule theme was perfect for the area. I was told, although I haven't had chance to check for myself yet, that if you New Game+ any of the Shadowbringer story it will reset the Ultima Thule area music.

Edit: Yeah it works, if you're gathering or FATE grinding there, start a Shadowbringers NG+ up and the music will reset.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

I mean, its not like EW totally happened during a global pandemic and Japan itself completely locked down for months forcing them to transition their entire development team to a work from home.....Oh and Soken had cancer and was composing songs while in the hospital......Forgive me if I'm a little more lenient than usual towards the overall product of EW, especially given the massive scale of the story being the epic end of an 8 year arc.

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They took a 6-7 month delay to account for any problems and were working at 90% efficiency before said delay. Soken having cancer is very unfortunate and i’m happy he got better, but to constantly use it to block any criticism is incredibly wrong and manipulative. They have other composers, he isn’t the only one. Considering how long we waited for this expansion there’s really no excuse.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

They took a 6-7 month delay to account for any problems and were working at 90% efficiency before said delay. Soken having cancer is very unfortunate and i’m happy he got better, but to constantly use it to block any criticism is incredibly wrong and manipulative. They have other composers, he isn’t the only one. Considering how long we waited for this expansion there’s really no excuse.

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The delay was QA/bug testing and other stuff. You're not developing or adding new content in 7 months.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

The delay was QA/bug testing and other stuff. You're not developing or adding new content in 7 months.

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I believe the official statement was it was for the expansion period. Irregardless my other points still stand. Using soken as a scapegoat is horrible when someone even has the credits posted above of the other composers.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

It's rather emotionally manipulative, but it isn't gaslighting. Gaslighting involves making someone question their own perception of reality.

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It certainly comes off that way though. Like he was trying to make OP feel like a POS, but in reality OP is not.

Thank you to everyone defending me lol. I wish i could say i didn’t expect the retaliation but…i’d be lying sadly.

Alot of EW is...meh.

Uematsu is still around. They have no excuse.

I mean Soken literally said he was composing on his hospital bed because he is bored and stuff if he isnt. The raid story isnt voiced, no new song, etc etc

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Originally Posted by Xuled

most commonly found in male viera, catboys and male au'ra who turn out to be the biggest predators in this game ALWAYS.

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Oh, I wonder what you could mean by this.

Wow. What a bunch of entitled adolescent people in here. Let's not forget Covid-19 pushed back development on top of them also working on FFXVI which is also now pushed back 6 months. Creative Business Unit 3 is working on both games.

Regardless, complaining about 2 friggin new songs for savage raid is beyond me. If I had to say, that's really petty.

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Originally Posted by EtherRose

Wow. What a bunch of entitled adolescent people in here. Let's not forget Covid-19 pushed back development on top of them also working on FFXVI which is also now pushed back 6 months. Creative Business Unit 3 is working on both games.

Regardless, complaining about 2 friggin new songs for savage raid is beyond me. If I had to say, that's really petty.

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They should’ve hired more people if 16 was in the plans then. Don’t see how it’s petty really when it’s piled on top of all the other things we’re missing. Like i stated before, the push back if development was then resolved with the 6-7 month delay they took, of which beforehand they were working at 90% efficiency.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

They should’ve hired more people if 16 was in the plans then. Don’t see how it’s petty really when it’s piled on top of all the other things we’re missing. Like i stated before, the push back if development was then resolved with the 6-7 month delay they took, of which beforehand they were working at 90% efficiency.

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You mean all the miniscule things that don't really matter but people like you make it out bigger than what it really is? You take something that is completely mundane and act like it's the end of the world over it. The same threads pop up over and over from people like you - "Omg they didn't do this or Omg they didn't add the exact same things from the other expansion or this current thread".... wHAt a DOwNgrAde. Move on now.

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Originally Posted by EtherRose

You mean all the miniscule things that don't really matter but people like you make it out bigger than what it really is? You take something that is completely mundane and act like it's the end of the world over it. The same threads pop up over and over from people like you - "Omg they didn't do this or Omg they didn't add the exact same things from the other expansion or this current thread".... wHAt a DOwNgrAde. Move on now.

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"miniscule things" add up. Move along.

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Originally Posted by EtherRose

You mean all the miniscule things that don't really matter but people like you make it out bigger than what it really is? You take something that is completely mundane and act like it's the end of the world over it. The same threads pop up over and over from people like you - "Omg they didn't do this or Omg they didn't add the exact same things from the other expansion or this current thread".... wHAt a DOwNgrAde. Move on now.

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People like me? You mean people that are paying a sub right? I’m allowed to voice my criticisms and yes, i’m going to bring up that in the expansion succeeding the one which broke record sales is the one that is seeing the most downgrades on early patch releases alone. At least i’m not the one using someone’s health and a global pandemic as constant excuses for it. It clearly matters if multiple people keep bringing it up, at that point it’s clearly an issue. I’m sorry that i don’t blindly eat up every little thing the devs give out. I voice my concerns with the game that i pay for. All of these things pile onto each other and that’s when it becomes a major issue.

It's honestly baffling this game doesn't have voiced boss fights still after six plus years of savage. E8, 11, 12, all had it, then what, they stopped caring to hire voice actors? What even happened?

I know some will probably complain at this but, it's just another raid fight do you really need a "new theme" just for Savage? Can't you enjoy the fight with the music as it is?

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Originally Posted by Garruss

I know some will probably complain at this but, it's just another raid fight do you really need a "new theme" just for Savage? Can't you enjoy the fight with the music as it is?

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It's the same equivalent as if they played, I don't know, the 1.0 Battle Music during the Shinryu fight? I don't paint myself as a musical genius but I think there's a certain layer of excitement that gets added when a song drastically shifts into something new coupled together with something you've never seen before, like whiplash on your ears or something. Savage is supposed to be exciting. Like, maybe an extra lyric or two? You don't even really need an entire new song.

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Originally Posted by EtherRose

You mean all the miniscule things that don't really matter but people like you make it out bigger than what it really is? You take something that is completely mundane and act like it's the end of the world over it. The same threads pop up over and over from people like you - "Omg they didn't do this or Omg they didn't add the exact same things from the other expansion or this current thread".... wHAt a DOwNgrAde. Move on now.

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I'm really starting to get the impression that a lot of people who give this type of reply to any sort of criticism are just happy to take anything the devs present to them no matter what package it's presented in. I feel like because Yoshi P saved the game since 1.0, it's like now a lot of players are willing to accept anything because the devs have their full support and trust. Even if you are disappointed about something, you can't even voice your opinion because you're seen as ungrateful and just whining. This type of blind support for anything and everything really puts me off.

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Originally Posted by EtherRose

??

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Looks like someone's furious that their favorite game is getting criticized.

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Originally Posted by EtherRose

You mean all the miniscule things that don't really matter but people like you make it out bigger than what it really is? You take something that is completely mundane and act like it's the end of the world over it. The same threads pop up over and over from people like you - "Omg they didn't do this or Omg they didn't add the exact same things from the other expansion or this current thread".... wHAt a DOwNgrAde. Move on now.

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Originally Posted by EtherRose

Wow. What a bunch of entitled adolescent people in here. Let's not forget Covid-19 pushed back development on top of them also working on FFXVI which is also now pushed back 6 months. Creative Business Unit 3 is working on both games.

Regardless, complaining about 2 friggin new songs for savage raid is beyond me. If I had to say, that's really petty.

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It's not pettiness nor entitlement to offer criticism or feedback. Both of which is exactly why these forums exist for in the first place. I don't know why people come onto the forums acting like nobody is allowed to voice negative feedback over anything without condescending them for it.

Nobody has forgotten about Covid-19. It has impacted everyone's lives. It's probably impossible to forget about Covid-19. However, life still goes on and eventually we get to a point where Covid-19 is used as a cop out to do bare minimum or less. Many of us are put into situations in our daily lives where our employers force us to pretend things are back to normal and suck it up. After having been exposed to that sort of environment, we grow tired of double standards businesses put on us. Lastly, and more recently. It's further harder to be sympathetic for a business that would like to publicly and openly endorse NFTs. As paying customers, I don't think there is anything wrong or selfish about trying to ask; and start a customer demand for two songs for final fights. SE won't know their customers want it unless we make noise about it. Afterall, the game is at an all-time record high despite all the challenges it has endured. I don't think asking for a few things here and there form a successful growing game is demanding much.

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Originally Posted by Remish

...Nobody has forgotten about Covid-19. It has impacted everyone's lives. It's probably impossible to forget about Covid-19. However, life still goes on and eventually we get to a point where Covid-19 is used as a cop out to do bare minimum or less. Many of us are put into situations in our daily lives where our employers force us to pretend things are back to normal and suck it up. After having been exposed to that sort of environment, we grow tired of double standards businesses put on us. Lastly, and more recently. It's further harder to be sympathetic for a business that would like to publicly and openly endorse NFTs. As paying customers, I don't think there is anything wrong or selfish about trying to ask; and start a customer demand for two songs for final fights. SE won't know their customers want it unless we make noise about it. Afterall, the game is at an all-time record high despite all the challenges it has endured. I don't think asking for a few things here and there form a successful growing game is demanding much.

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Well said. And with all the comparisons to other games' devs being made and an almost sort of bragging being done about how our devs are better and actually listen to the player base etc..I find it ironic when people give this type of reply, calling people who give criticisms entitled - making it seem like oh they just can't be happy no matter what, the devs are doing their best just be happy with what you get! And I think that type of attitude isn't going to encourage healthy discussion or help anything get better.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

So just found out that the p2 of P4s doesnt even have a new theme... its the same theme. We're only getting 2 new songs in this raid tier as opposed to Eden's what, 3-4? Along with no voice acting. How many more downgrades at this rate jesus...

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Funny enough we got actually 3 themes, the Pandaemonium hub, 1-3 and 4.

But voice acting is so erratic i wasn't really expecting at all despite the teaser of the raid with an actual voice. Maybe they will put in 2nd and 3rd tier, who knows.

Although I will say the part 2 of p4s could have even used a slight change of the song, maybe even more macabre but overall 1-3 worked fine with Ancient Shackles imo.

One thing to keep in mind is the game has already the most unique music of any mmo. Guineas record actually.

Just because this one tier might be slacking does mean the entire expansion will so before passing judgment it helps to wait til we have the entire picture.

While yes we can't blame covid on every thing but at the same time it's important to remember it's surging like crazy at the moment and many companies are lacking man power. While it might have faults in some areas it's by MO means the worse. The main focus was providing an excellent story wrap up and on that side they surpassed expectations largely by most.

Like sure would more music and unique armors be great. Heck yeah, but it's not as if the game lacks tons of unique variations.

The raid tier is pretty fun and overall an the extremes were pretty on par for starter ones.

If your biggest issue is the game doesn't 100% your expectations it's fine to voice your opinion, but most of these problems are only issues other mmos wish they had. Like I'd likely still be playing wow if my biggest problem with the game was reused assets and the lack of a song.

I think at this point they deliver pretty much exactly what you expect and while it may not check all the boxes every single time it does so with enough consistency that the game is still and overall positive experience, and if it's no longer good enough then perhaps it's time to move on.

Compared to all the previous expansions before EW

A Realm Reborn = Holds the most number of content which is understandable because they needed to keep players busy while they had to fix their mistakes and everything was experimental, their raid The Coils of Bahamut felt like an actual raid, had Voice Acting albeit only near the end and they even had a CG cutscene that explains everything after Louisoux teleported everyone and was left to fight Bahamut on his own. Coils felt like a proper raid.

Heavensward = They really started to up their musical scores and the battle arena's were good and interesting when fighting Bismarck for the 1st time was great, Sophia tilting the arena, Zurvan breaking free thus making the arena smaller was all good. Alexander raids also felt like a proper Raid which they should've kept that formula where in normal raids you all rampage through Alexander and you get to see the spectacle and magnitude of a Primal, there is a literal city inside it and that was great and in Savage it takes you straight to the boss which was great. The Soundtracks in Alexander Raids were absolute bangers.

Stormblood = Trials were amazing in this one, the QTE when you need to clash against Susan's sword, the riding on Shinryu and then running on his tail to his back while dodging lazers were phenomenal this fight is one of the fights that they need to bring back doing mad stunts and not just have a 1 Square or Circle arena like what we have nowadays. Sadly Stormblood was the beginning of the Mini-Trial formula disguised as Raids where you just fight bosses that they could've just been Trials at this point, when I started doing it for the 1st time I was at first okay with it because I considered the story of the Omega Raids a "Tournament Arc" kind of story, the soundtracks were good and Omega's Theme was an absolute banger.

Shadowbringers = They did an amazing job with the music in the Trials but what bothered me the most is the absolute huge lack of voice acting in the important side content the Weapon story line and Bozja, the cutscenes production value was much better than the rest when it came to side content but they have been dulled down due to no voice acting, the actions and body language characters made fell really short without the voice acting, examples being: Valens’ chanting "Burn out the Bad!", Valens’ hysterical laughter when the Ala Mhigan wife pleaded him to let her and her daughter go after the passing husband agreed to take the experiment and many other examples, similar example is within the Raids when Gaia and Ryne laugh, it looks... weird that you can clearly see they are laughing but it's just body language. The Eden raids were pretty good but I could see the degradation of raid fights and arenas and it made me realize that this is the formula they gonna stick to because it is quicker and easier for them to make them and I feared that any future content made will degrade further and I was right, it has in EW.

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Originally Posted by EverQuest

One thing to keep in mind is the game has already the most unique music of any mmo. Guineas record actually.

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See I feel like they heard about this during ARR and then used it as an excuse to be extremely lazy with their soundtracks from then on.

I don't really understand this hang up of "true raids". As far as I'm aware, there's no defined format for a "raid", just a carry over of what another specific MMO typically does for their "raids" which is ultimately just the case of two different games using the same term for different things.

There's nothing enjoyable about having to burn down trash mobs before you start a fight, especially not if you're repeating that fight over and over, which you sometimes need to do for even normal raids when you don't get the loot you need.

In fact the most boring raid in the game so far, which I loathe queuing into via the roulette, is that one Alex raid which is just a room full of trash mob spawns one after the other.
I couldn't tell you which one that is because most of the Alex raids just blur into each other as one amorphous goblin orgy. The big finishers are great, but the 1-3s are all very dull and repetitive.

Omega did it well, it had the perfect balance between some story trash you fight solo and only one time, followed by the raid bosses themselves as the actual party instances.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

goblin orgy

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How dare you make me read this with my own eyes?

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Originally Posted by FrogDog

"miniscule things" add up. Move along.

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They are still miniscule things. Things that a very few complain about.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

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You know what I mean, I clearly explained it. Quit being dense. And it's not a major issue at all if the majority isn't up in pitch forks. Because again, you're complaining about something miniscule. Yes you can voice your criticism all you want but don't get your panties in a bunch when others criticize you.

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Originally Posted by OhNooo

I'm really starting to get the impression that a lot of people who give this type of reply to any sort of criticism are just happy to take anything the devs present to them no matter what package it's presented in. I feel like because Yoshi P saved the game since 1.0, it's like now a lot of players are willing to accept anything because the devs have their full support and trust. Even if you are disappointed about something, you can't even voice your opinion because you're seen as ungrateful and just whining. This type of blind support for anything and everything really puts me off.

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Wrong. If they added something to the game that is clearly broken/bugged or not working then no one would take that. We're talking about Music here. Music. One of the miniscule things. And who said you can't voice your opinion? Just because your opinion gets a little fire doesn't mean it's over.

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Originally Posted by kpxmanifesto

Looks like someone's furious that their favorite game is getting criticized.

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I criticize the game myself. Your point?

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Originally Posted by Remish

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The way the criticism was delivered in the end is what is petty. Not the criticism itself. "wHaT a DOwNgRade", Yea yea we've heard it many times now at this point it's satirical. And nobody is stopping anyone from voicing negative feedback, at all. I don't understand why people think that they can give negative feedback but not receive any in return. You think everyone would just agree with you?

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

I don't really understand this hang up of "true raids". As far as I'm aware, there's no defined format for a "raid", just a carry over of what another specific MMO typically does for their "raids" which is ultimately just the case of two different games using the same term for different things.

There's nothing enjoyable about having to burn down trash mobs before you start a fight, especially not if you're repeating that fight over and over, which you sometimes need to do for even normal raids when you don't get the loot you need.

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I think that's just because trash is boring in this game. We have very basic AoE rotations because we have very little need to be using AoE in the first place. We don't use Crowd Control (and we have very little CC) because we have no use for it. So as it stands now, yes, trash would be obnoxious in a raid. I personally hate every trash pull in 24-man raid.
Now if there was a fundamental redesign of AoE and fight encounter, it might be interesting.
At this point for players who have been around for some time, I'm sure any change would be welcome to shake up the formula. But this requires a lot of work from the devs, and I'm not sure they are interested to even shyly stray away from the comfort zone they have established in their patch cycle. Some like it, some find it boring. Both opinions are valid.

But the downscaling of little bits of content here and there is a fact. I'm not sure it applies to music which is the topic here, but less dungeons, less side quests, less gear sets... the only thing we have more and more is cutscenes, which is a finite value in a MMO.

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Originally Posted by EtherRose

They are still miniscule things. Things that a very few complain about.



You know what I mean, I clearly explained it. Quit being dense. And it's not a major issue at all if the majority isn't up in pitch forks. Because again, you're complaining about something miniscule. Yes you can voice your criticism all you want but don't get your panties in a bunch when others criticize you.



Wrong. If they added something to the game that is clearly broken/bugged or not working then no one would take that. We're talking about Music here. Music. One of the miniscule things. And who said you can't voice your opinion? Just because your opinion gets a little fire doesn't mean it's over.



I criticize the game myself. Your point?



The way the criticism was delivered in the end is what is petty. Not the criticism itself. "wHaT a DOwNgRade", Yea yea we've heard it many times now at this point it's satirical. And nobody is stopping anyone from voicing negative feedback, at all. I don't understand why people think that they can give negative feedback but not receive any in return. You think everyone would just agree with you?

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I’m fine with people disagreeing with me. It’s when they resort to disgusting tactics like emotional manipulation, using someone’s cancer or a global pandemic to try and prove a false point that is a problem. Just so happens so is insulting others and you’ve ticked all the boxes so i’ll just refrain from engaging with you.

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Originally Posted by EtherRose

You mean all the miniscule things that don't really matter but people like you make it out bigger than what it really is? You take something that is completely mundane and act like it's the end of the world over it. The same threads pop up over and over from people like you - "Omg they didn't do this or Omg they didn't add the exact same things from the other expansion or this current thread".... wHAt a DOwNgrAde. Move on now.

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Wow now the music is "miniscule and completely mundane" because someone complained that we have less music in the game? Dont you know Soken was in the hospital with cancer.

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Originally Posted by EtherRose

I criticize the game myself. Your point?

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C'mon man, it's not a riddle. You don't have to be petty and disrespectful to someone because they criticized FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Mansion

I think that's just because trash is boring in this game. We have very basic AoE rotations because we have very little need to be using AoE in the first place. We don't use Crowd Control (and we have very little CC) because we have no use for it. So as it stands now, yes, trash would be obnoxious in a raid. I personally hate every trash pull in 24-man raid.
Now if there was a fundamental redesign of AoE and fight encounter, it might be interesting.
At this point for players who have been around for some time, I'm sure any change would be welcome to shake up the formula. But this requires a lot of work from the devs, and I'm not sure they are interested to even shyly stray away from the comfort zone they have established in their patch cycle. Some like it, some find it boring. Both opinions are valid.

But the downscaling of little bits of content here and there is a fact. I'm not sure it applies to music which is the topic here, but less dungeons, less side quests, less gear sets... the only thing we have more and more is cutscenes, which is a finite value in a MMO.

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We have add phases in a lot of fights that involve more specific mechanics. Those pretty much take the place of trash mobs and I much prefer how they work. As part of the fight, and a predictable part at that, it allows you to work them into your rotation, which is useful for tanks and healers.

There's also the presence of "door bosses", giving you multiple phases to one fight. Againn much more preferable to pre-fight trash mobs, and yet some people still complain about them.