FFXIV's story is threading on dangerous religious grounds

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Originally Posted by Conundrum

Troll-O-Meter=100%

Username also not accurate.

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Well, it's not plural, so maybe it is accurate.

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Originally Posted by Floortank

The Garleans particularly in ARR represent a criticism of militant intervention policies, especially American militarism.

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The Garleans are heavily influenced by the Romans in terms of their structure and conquests with a fantasy and technological twist, mixed with some Russian cultural influences. I can't say I see much inspiration taken from America where Garlemald is concerned.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

An unfinished mess?

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True but.......

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a7/05...5e88bf5383.gif

Well u probably should stay away from Shin Megami Tensei games.

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Originally Posted by Narigo1

Well u probably should stay away from Shin Megami Tensei games.

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Most games actually.
Especially Fight of Gods.

Oof, stay away from FMA then lol, the entire premise is ‘believe in yourself, not in someone else, don’t play God, God sucks massively, you are the master of your destiny.’

Conveniently serialized on Shounen GANGAN, which is a Square Enix IP :9

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Originally Posted by Theodric

The Garleans are heavily influenced by the Romans in terms of their structure and conquests with a fantasy and technological twist, mixed with some Russian cultural influences. I can't say I see much inspiration taken from America where Garlemald is concerned.

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The closest I can see is maybe where those same inspirations and comparisons could be made between the United States and Rome, but yeah I've seen Garlemald as Roman Russia for a while now personally.

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Originally Posted by Neuron

There is a god in this game called Lakshmi that we have to fight. And Lakshmi is one of the Hindu gods. Tell me how this type of storyline will not offend Hindu people. I, myself, am a Hindu person and I felt offended at that part of the storyline.

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I feel offended by this thread.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

An unfinished mess?

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A hot mess :)

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Originally Posted by Neuron

I will explain this plainly so people can understand: Basically the storyline of FFXIV is saying 'don't be religious'.

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No wonder I was enjoying this game so much o.o

...this game is 8 Years Old. (I guess 11 if you count 1.0)
I dont recall anywhere in those 8 years that any religion got angry or tried to cancel the game, or tried to force a change because they got offended by this "Dangerous Religious Ground" you claim the game is Treading on.
When its been on it for over 2920 Days

Ah i see its the OPs first experience with anything in the fantasy or fiction genre

Isn't that how religion works in real life anyway?

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Originally Posted by Neuron

The main story of this game is threading on dangerous religious grounds mainly because of when a specific groups of people (beast tribes) summon their gods and we go there, kill their gods and put those people in their place after they get brainwashed (tempered) by their respective dieties. This kind of story is very dangerous in religious countries and square enix will get in legal trouble if they continue this type of storyline. This game has now gained a lot of attention and popularity. Its no longer hidden by WoW and the storyline will get a lot of attention now all over the world.

Basically the story of FFXIV is saying that "Don't worship your gods or else we will kill your gods and then put you in your place. All the gods when summoned turns evil and brainwash (tempers) their people".

I was also shocked to see that when a particularly important NPC told me all the 12 gods of the civilized races of Eorzea like Rhalgr, Halone, etc can be summoned if we lavish them with crystals and gorge them with ether. And when summoned the gods will turn evil (just like the beast tribe gods) and will fully brainwash (temper) all their worshippers. This type of storyline may have worked 15-20 years ago but nowadays in this new generation people will not tolerate it.

I won't be surprise if the storyline gets censored in the coming days in majority of the countries.

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Every JRPG except Dragon Quest still ends with you killing god

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Originally Posted by Neuron

I will explain this plainly so people can understand: Basically the storyline of FFXIV is saying 'don't be religious'.

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Which is excellent advice

There seems to be a great many strange threads started by characters with a join date of Dec 2021 of late.

I am still wondering what legal trouble this person talking about lol Since there is no legal grounds.

The beast tribe summonings had many downsides to them...

Namely that the way they're summoned urges their summoners to forcefully spread faith in them, by and large the primals demand complete obedience (again probably due to the rites used), and on top of that, they drain aether. They're not the same as the primals constructed through the creation magicks of the ancients. I don't think the point is that religion is bad, per se. Ability to use magic in the setting is indicated in the game's lore books to correlate with a penchant for faith (thus why Garleans are predisposed to atheism by and large), and by the end of 6.0, your character is receiving prayer to help them persevere.

With that said, I also agree with Theodric; quite often formal religion is replaced by zealotry in ideologies that can be even worse.

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Originally Posted by Neuron

The main story of this game is threading on dangerous religious grounds mainly because of when a specific groups of people (beast tribes) summon their gods and we go there, kill their gods and put those people in their place after they get brainwashed (tempered) by their respective dieties. This kind of story is very dangerous in religious countries and square enix will get in legal trouble if they continue this type of storyline. This game has now gained a lot of attention and popularity. Its no longer hidden by WoW and the storyline will get a lot of attention now all over the world.

Basically the story of FFXIV is saying that "Don't worship your gods or else we will kill your gods and then put you in your place. All the gods when summoned turns evil and brainwash (tempers) their people".

I was also shocked to see that when a particularly important NPC told me all the 12 gods of the civilized races of Eorzea like Rhalgr, Halone, etc can be summoned if we lavish them with crystals and gorge them with ether. And when summoned the gods will turn evil (just like the beast tribe gods) and will fully brainwash (temper) all their worshippers. This type of storyline may have worked 15-20 years ago but nowadays in this new generation people will not tolerate it.

I won't be surprise if the storyline gets censored in the coming days in majority of the countries.

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I think you misunderstand the message of the game.

You arent killing gods in a sense, you kill false hopes made flesh. They are idols that those people summon, so that they solve their problems, instead of solving them themselves.

What the Warrior of Light does, is not killing their god, because they cant. What they kill is the urge to let deities work their lives out and reminding them, that their lifes are in THEIR hand and they should solve their problems by themselves.

Its not about believing in gods, its about wanting the easy way out, on general.

Endwalker deals with a different way of "easy way out",

which is nihilism.

Its not always the same.

At least thats what I think

Oh pleeaseee

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Originally Posted by Neuron

There is a god in this game called Lakshmi that we have to fight. And Lakshmi is one of the Hindu gods. Tell me how this type of storyline will not offend Hindu people. I, myself, am a Hindu person and I felt offended at that part of the storyline.

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If you are getting offended in an MMO, then you have a lot to think about.

Thank god this game is Japanese. If it were western, they might actually take this seriously and do something absolutely awful all in the name of not offending people who have no idea what they're even talking about to begin with. Judging by what you've said, you havent even read a bible-not even an abbreviated version. Which means you're being offended on behalf of cultures you're not even apart of. Wasn't 'latinX' bad enough for you people. I don't understand this. If none of us are saying we're offended by it then why do you, an outsider, get to?

Woke cultures habit of seeing 'problematic issues!!!!!!!!!' everywhere is truly and honestly problematic in itself, which time and time again these people fail to realize because at the time they're typing up all these triggers, buzzwords, and virtue signals, all they're thinking about is how morally correct they are and what a big heroic thought provoker they're proving themselves to be. They get lost in trying to feel some sense of power/leadership, having some sort of public sway. This thought is at the forefront of their minds, and this mindset they get is why they constantly end up talking over cultures and being worse than the oppressors that they're hallucinating up to imaginarily defeat anyway.

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Originally Posted by Batbrat

Thank god this game is Japanese. If it were western, they might actually take this seriously and do something absolutely awful all in the name of not offending people who have no idea what they're even talking about to begin with. Judging by what you've said, you havent even read a bible-not even an abbreviated version. Which means you're being offended on behalf of cultures you're not even apart of. Wasn't 'latinX' bad enough for you people. I don't understand this. If none of us are saying we're offended by it then why do you, an outsider, get to?

Woke cultures habit of seeing 'problematic issues!!!!!!!!!' everywhere is truly and honestly problematic in itself, which time and time again these people fail to realize because at the time they're typing up all these triggers, buzzwords, and virtue signals, all they're thinking about is how morally correct they are and what a big heroic thought provoker they're proving themselves to be. They get lost in trying to feel some sense of power/leadership, having some sort of public sway. This thought is at the forefront of their minds, and this mindset they get is why they constantly end up talking over cultures and being worse than the oppressors that they're hallucinating up to imaginarily defeat anyway.

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Surely there are a lot of people, you are describing.

But I think the feelings of the OP are genuine, they say in another post, that they are hindu and feel uncomfortable about Lakshmi, for example.

OP also, as far as I know, never claimed that they want to go on a witchhunt, they simply said they are worried, that FFXIV gets bad reputation, after getting so much exposure.

So basicly they are on your side, so please calm down^^

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Originally Posted by Neuron

The main story of this game is threading on dangerous religious grounds mainly because of when a specific groups of people (beast tribes) summon their gods and we go there, kill their gods and put those people in their place after they get brainwashed (tempered) by their respective dieties. This kind of story is very dangerous in religious countries and square enix will get in legal trouble if they continue this type of storyline. This game has now gained a lot of attention and popularity. Its no longer hidden by WoW and the storyline will get a lot of attention now all over the world.

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I am going to go out on a limb and guess you are a WoW fan.

played that game for a long time and are here to enlighten the weebs here to the evil of the game.

thats fine, thanks for the attempt.

I wonder what you thought of WoW's message? "you arent us, because you arent us, we can kill at will, invade, cause strife, destroy other peoples culture and invade if they even look at you because, well, you are evil, because you.. well, lets face it.. you are us..."


I would get a bit further into story to see what the message is, and really, its all about religious fanaticism. its not about them HAVING their own gods. seriously, its about the sects within the tribes and the VERSION of the god they summon.

cant wait if you progress further to see what new "revelations" you try and troll with

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Originally Posted by Jennah

I'm still floored that Vauthy's parentage was half-human, half-divine. And that his main form of worship was all his followers eating bread, which turned out to literally be divine flesh.
And yet nobody seemed to even notice the parallels, let alone get offended.

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This so much this i know this troll thread but come one if you gonna get mad over killing "gods" whyw as none upset at this. gon tell me i'll wait

first they declared war on ifrit, now they declare war on Christmas

OP is a known troll poster. One of their other threads was already deleted. They create a post, respond for the first page or so to rile up everyone, and then abandons it to create another. At this point they are clearly doing it to stir the pot and get the forum arguing.

That depends on how you interrupt the story.

Is your version of Lakshmi some psychotic lady that brainwashes you with snake oil to due her bidding? No? Then there's nothing really to discuss because it's not your Lakshmi but a name, and considering that I'm not bowing to everyone I meet named Jesus, I don't really see a problem with it.

It's easy to dismiss someone else's beliefs...but I am pretty sure if there was a Jesus guy, I would be pretty peeved.

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Originally Posted by Irzephyra

I think you misunderstand the message of the game.

You arent killing gods in a sense, you kill false hopes made flesh. They are idols that those people summon, so that they solve their problems, instead of solving them themselves.

What the Warrior of Light does, is not killing their god, because they cant. What they kill is the urge to let deities work their lives out and reminding them, that their lifes are in THEIR hand and they should solve their problems by themselves.

Its not about believing in gods, its about wanting the easy way out, on general.

Endwalker deals with a different way of "easy way out",

which is nihilism.

Its not always the same.

At least thats what I think

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The WoL has never solved their problems by themselves though. They’ve always had some deity or higher up entity aiding them. We also literally summon primals ourselves in both Eden and the end of EW to help us. So is it only a case of it’s only okay when the protagonists do it?

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

It's easy to dismiss someone else's beliefs...but I am pretty sure if there was a Jesus guy, I would be pretty peeved.

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Uh, Vauthry says hi.

Second, there's no dismissing of beliefs going on here. The OP, who is clearly trolling, is saying that killing the Primals is akin to a 'war on religion'. Neglecting the entire point of the story that it's not that the Primals are gods, its they are flawed constructs brought forth by warped faith given flesh. They are imperfect creations based on what the summoners believe their gods to be like, not the actual god in of itself. Tempering was an Ascian trick, also not applicable.

Then there's the fact it's a flipping video game, a JRPG at that. JRPG's have this little trope about "killing a god" that's gone on for well over thirty years.

People need to stop getting triggered and offended over nothing burgers.

To be honest many eastern, and even western, game developers have a poor grasp of theology and actual religious doctrine. So I do agree with OP to some extent. Also, religious free societies have been attempted...and have resulted in the deaths of millions. So please, get off thine high horse.

I liked Vauthry- I didn't see him that way... but to each their own

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

The WoL has never solved their problems by themselves though. They’ve always had some deity or higher up entity aiding them. We also literally summon primals ourselves in both Eden and the end of EW to help us. So is it only a case of it’s only okay when the protagonists do it?

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Thats true!

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

I liked Vauthry- I didn't see him that way... but to each their own

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Leader of his people and given a following that is outside of the cultural norm at the time.
Half human half "divine" (In this aspect, Sin Eater).
Feeds his following bread that is literally his "flesh".
He revives himself into a more Divine Form.

There's other examples I can use to draw the appropriate parallels but they are a bit more in the realm of "squint and you'll see it". These are just the biggest ones on the surface.

I can see the parallels, but it is squint enough far that I don't see it as an issue.

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Originally Posted by Neuron

There is a god in this game called Lakshmi that we have to fight. And Lakshmi is one of the Hindu gods. Tell me how this type of storyline will not offend Hindu people. I, myself, am a Hindu person and I felt offended at that part of the storyline.

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you cannot be serious right now...

You are just the worst kind of troll. Can this guy get freaking banned already please?

You are just the worst kind of troll. Can this guy get freaking banned already please?

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Originally Posted by Neuron

There is a god in this game called Lakshmi that we have to fight. And Lakshmi is one of the Hindu gods. Tell me how this type of storyline will not offend Hindu people. I, myself, am a Hindu person and I felt offended at that part of the storyline.

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You didn't fight Lakshmi, you fought a perversion of Lakshmi (because all primals who came about due to the summoning methods taught by the Ascians are perversions of the object of faith, which will be revealed to be intentional later on). Note that the group of Ananta that sent you to slay the primal also worships Sri Lakshmi, and explicitly calls the primal an abomination and nothing like the Lakshmi they worship if you select the dialogue option that tells them that choosing to send you to deal with the problems means they've signed the primal's death warrant.

In the post Shadowbringers story

you even find a cure for tempering which is explicitly shown not to do anything about the recipients' religious belief. The first group you cure are Kobolds who worship Titan and were tempered when they summoned him. The cure leaves them still worshippers of Titan, but freed of the More Than Mind Control that tempering inflicts. And as you continue, more groups get freed from their tempering.

and as additional evidence to this, do the Amaal'ja daily quests. The Brotherhood of Ash is a group of Amaal'ja who are not tempered, and find the summoned version of their god Ifrit to be an... abomination.