Feelings on Endwalker paladin

Paladin has all the utility making it extremely powerful for raid progs, what we don't know is the damage value defeating the other tanks. If Paladin DPS is on the lowest point, that's it, Paladin is brought in prog and War/Gnb are sent on the frontlines for clearing and pushed to the most picked.

Dark Knight, has taken over Paladins role as the permanent off tank with Warrior, and Paladin, TBN/Oblation chucking on team mates. Dark Knight, being with Gunbreaker, it will be even against each other, Gunbreaker can pass team mates and self, plus Heart of Corundum is a solid ability, Exog mind you.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

PLD now has is Skillspeed and Spellspeed being separate stats

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I don't believe that this matters at all. The only time that PLD cares about this is during Fight or Flight Windows, and you only ever use physical skill speed abilities during these windows anyways. Most PLD currently run 2.41 Skill Speed GCD so that they can fit 2 Goring Blades and a riot blade/4th atonement into the FoF window. Since all of your spell abilities occur outside of the FoF window, it doesn't matter if your your Spell Speed GCD is 2.5 sec. PLD will still use the two standard openers (FoF First or Requiescat First) for the vast majority of encounters. Putting any Spell Speed onto your gear will likely be a DPS loss, unless there is some crazy opener that I haven't heard about yet.

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Originally Posted by Tex_Mex

I don't believe that this matters at all. The only time that PLD cares about this is during Fight or Flight Windows, and you only ever use physical skill speed abilities during these windows anyways. Most PLD currently run 2.41 Skill Speed GCD so that they can fit 2 Goring Blades and a riot blade/4th atonement into the FoF window. Since all of your spell abilities occur outside of the FoF window, it doesn't matter if your your Spell Speed GCD is 2.5 sec. PLD will still use the two standard openers (FoF First or Requiescat First) for the vast majority of encounters. Putting any Spell Speed onto your gear will likely be a DPS loss, unless there is some crazy opener that I haven't heard about yet.

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.1 Skillspeed increase if 8 spell casts is going to cause a problem with pushing the GCD in FoF on Reqs opener.

Certain fights will call for a 16s FoF opener, making GCDs line up at the finish.

In value, 2.43 is the strongest, the DH/Crit ratios would overpower a FoF boosted Riot Blade, still RNG based to this day.

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Originally Posted by Tex_Mex

I don't believe that this matters at all. The only time that PLD cares about this is during Fight or Flight Windows, and you only ever use physical skill speed abilities during these windows anyways. Most PLD currently run 2.41 Skill Speed GCD so that they can fit 2 Goring Blades and a riot blade/4th atonement into the FoF window. Since all of your spell abilities occur outside of the FoF window, it doesn't matter if your your Spell Speed GCD is 2.5 sec. PLD will still use the two standard openers (FoF First or Requiescat First) for the vast majority of encounters. Putting any Spell Speed onto your gear will likely be a DPS loss, unless there is some crazy opener that I haven't heard about yet.

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The issue isnt fitting skills under buffs, it is PLD mechanically desynchronizing itself from the 60s cycle and either dropping gcds for realignment or having like a 63s rotation instead with more ideal sks values.

Additionally, PLD massively suffers with skillspeed on gear as their spells gain nothing out of it, not even dot power. This issue became more pronounced with the advent of the Confiteor combo being all spells and replacing an unbuffed Goring Blade combo.

DRK suffers from a similar issue when AOEing or using their ranged attack, as they are all spells and not affected by skillspeed, an issue affecting their core ressource ability "Blood Weapon" to receive full benefit using those, making it impossible to get all five hits in with the AOE combo.

Does it matter? Probably not, is it good design? Definitely not. That's why we are here to give feedback.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

The issue isnt fitting skills under buffs, it is PLD mechanically desynchronizing itself from the 60s cycle and either dropping gcds for realignment or having like a 63s rotation instead with more ideal sks values.

Additionally, PLD massively suffers with skillspeed on gear as their spells gain nothing out of it, not even dot power. This issue became more pronounced with the advent of the Confiteor combo being all spells and replacing an unbuffed Goring Blade combo.

DRK suffers from a similar issue when AOEing or using their ranged attack, as they are all spells and not affected by skillspeed, an issue affecting their core ressource ability "Blood Weapon" to receive full benefit using those, making it impossible to get all five hits in with the AOE combo.

Does it matter? Probably not, is it good design? Definitely not. That's why we are here to give feedback.

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Thank you for your reply! You are right. It is unnecessarily clunky, even if it is minor. (I removed a comment that did go here because I realized it didn't make any sense lol)

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

This + Holy Sheltron / Enh. Intervention = SS-Tier tank no matter how you slice it. How you get more hasnt changed but PLD gets to start big like the other tanks.

The final two issues PLD now has is Skillspeed and Spellspeed being separate stats and Atonement, Clemency, Holy Spirit and Holy Circle interrupting combo still. But that aside, PLD easily could be best overall tank, well contending with WAR and GNB.

DRK tho... yeeeah, this truly is the FF IV expansion.

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If it's any consolation to DRK and maybe some Con for PLD, the Holy Sheltron upgrade doesn't happen until 82 and the Healing Effects on Holy Spirit/Circle don't kick in until 84 so pre-80 PLD still only has Clemency GCD skill as HP Sustain that got also got nerfed to 1000 Potency and no longer benefits from Requiescat. PLD's real good stuff is all Backloaded 82-90.

DRK is still pretty badass 70-80, I'd say 30-80 is still pretty OK because at least DRK still has 1-2-3 Soul Eater Sustain and later Abyssal Drain but beyond 80 it starts to look less badass compared to PLD and looks more and more like ass... comparatively speaking.

Swords, swords and oh did i mention more swords?! It reminds me alot from fft

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Originally Posted by ArthurATDayne

If it's any consolation to DRK and maybe some Con for PLD, the Holy Sheltron upgrade doesn't happen until 82 and the Healing Effects on Holy Spirit/Circle don't kick in until 84 so pre-80 PLD still only has Clemency GCD skill as HP Sustain that got also got nerfed to 1000 Potency and no longer benefits from Requiescat. PLD's real good stuff is all Backloaded 82-90.

DRK is still pretty badass 70-80, I'd say 30-80 is still pretty OK because at least DRK still has 1-2-3 Soul Eater Sustain and later Abyssal Drain but beyond 80 it starts to look less badass compared to PLD and looks more and more like ass... comparatively speaking.

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No consolation needed, in fact I'm a bit miffed that all the PLD QoL hits so late, making it extremely top-heavy in job evolution while leaving the majority of the levelling and lower level raiding rather dire in my eyes. I avoid Lv70 and Lv80 PLD for this reason for a while now.

I suppose Requiescat now giving the instant casts straight at Lv68 rather than 78 is absolutely something worth having, as hardcasting spells actually locks you out of blocking and thus you could mistime your Sheltron, so that is overall a very good change. And the reduced MP cost gives a certain degree of flexibility over just having to resort to Shield Lob when on range.

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Originally Posted by Rayne6665

Swords, swords and oh did i mention more swords?! It reminds me alot from fft

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I mean, that's what Confiteor and the whole combo is actually paying tribute to.

Only got to run roulettes 2 times with PLD so far. <3 it by all standards. I don't have the issues with clemency that others do though. Clemency is for me to fix bad healers/help good healers. Cast time or not, no other tank can maintain that easily and keep DPS alive at lower levels, when your healer is holding down the floor. With the advent of Tank SGE/REP/REP being every single party this is more important then ever.

Passive healing from souleater = worthless in a good party, and even more worthless in a bad party. It won't keep you alive through a boss encounter, and you don't get the TBN as early as PLD gets Clemency.

Adding holy sheltron post 82. I feel like PLD is not just hands down the best all around tank for solo que. I have no idea how strong warrior is in the same scenarios though. I already solo'd A9S today at level 82, following the old mister happy guide, and well I never tried it before pre endwalker (wasn't on the anima step) holy sheltron just made it such a cake walk.

utility is fantastic, but I am testing some stuff right now and at 2.36 GCD executing 4 atonement rotations with 4 holy spirit +fiteor / swords leads to holding on to fight or flight for 2 excess seconds. looking at even more of a desynch with a 2.40 - 2.44 GCD. Might end up being better to drop 1 atonement now to ensure your buffs stay synched properly but only time will tell.

EDIT: yeah 3 atonements is better. 20 potency gain.

So I just started leveling from 80 now and I'm just like...what do I do with all this extra mp? Can anyone tell me?

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Originally Posted by FrogDog

So I just started leveling from 80 now and I'm just like...what do I do with all this extra mp? Can anyone tell me?

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I don't know if there's a special a reason for it, just emergency Clemencies or using Holy Spirit for odd ranged situations no longer messing with your Requiescat phase.

You can now use 5 holy spirit’s or 2 clemencies and a Holy Spirit outside your req window without messing up the flow of your rotation. Basically it just means PLD can play a bit looser with their MP in unusual circumstances without delaying their req window.

An example that comes immediately to mind is E6s where tanks had to go and stand in the corner for 10 seconds while they got blasted with fire. During that time you can now play with holy spirits without needing to be in your req phase and when you get back to the boss you’ll still have enough mp to continue your rotation as normal.

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Originally Posted by Bravely_Default

utility is fantastic, but I am testing some stuff right now and at 2.36 GCD executing 4 atonement rotations with 4 holy spirit +fiteor / swords leads to holding on to fight or flight for 2 excess seconds. looking at even more of a desynch with a 2.40 - 2.44 GCD. Might end up being better to drop 1 atonement now to ensure your buffs stay synched properly but only time will tell.

EDIT: yeah 3 atonements is better. 20 potency gain.

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It's stated 2.45 or 2.47 is optimal for Paladin currently, Balance tests. The crit/DH falls off too much using too much Skillspeed stats.

I didn't think myself that the Secondary stats would be cut down.

It also appears PLD was severely undertuned with kit changes. Seems warriors and gunbreakers are doing at the least 10%+ more damage than PLDs on the average.

Needs further testing but I really hope this gets fixed by savage if this is true because 10% is really high.

I absolutely love it.

I love the extra heals on my magic spells and the new holy sheltron. The difference is really noticeable to me.

I love that they prolongued the time window of Requiescat and gave it stacks.
It's a lot more dynamic, versatile and fun to use now.

I also really like the confietor combo. It's so satisfying to use (when that last big sword drops I always Feel that - literally battle Asmr).
I also really like how it changes up my rotation.

All in all, I never had as much fun with PLD as I'm having now. I really picked the right main, haha.

Things I like:

• I have saved several groups from wipes with all the extra clemency mana I have access to now. My rotation doesn't get destroyed if I have to send one off every once in a while.
• Being able to pop Requiescat early so that it fits into group Buff windows.
• The New Confeitor Combo is amazing.
• AoE DPS in Dungeons is ridiculous. Stuff dies REALLY fast.
• Holy Shelltron is so good it might be broken. Tank busters barely touch me.

Things that are alright, though strange:

• The rotation is a little bit funky now since it is actually optimal to drop 1 unbuffed atonement so that your CD's stay lined up on 60-61 seconds.
• Four Atonement rotation is dead now, since the timing for Blade of Faith makes it a DPS loss to use.
• Divine Veil healing is just average. Most of the time, the healing is inconsequential.

Things I don't care for:

• It does feel like my single target damage is undertuned. I can't be 100% certain, but I've already experienced some indicators that it may be lower than expected.
• Gap closers still do damage. I hate having to use utility skills for DPS increases instead of the utility they were meant for.

Save 1 charge for gap closing. That's what charges are for.

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Originally Posted by NyneSwordz

Save 1 charge for gap closing. That's what charges are for.

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Except you can’t, because they do damage so you need to fit both charges into raid buff windows. You can probably hold a charge for about 10 seconds and then can’t use them outside the burst window or they won’t be up again in time.

Other than the fact you couldn’t open with it I’d say old onslaught was the best design for gap closers. Outside of your burst window it was dps neutral because of the gauge cost and inside the burst window you could still use it for damage without feeling like you were losing its utility thanks to the short recast.

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

Except you can’t, because they do damage so you need to fit both charges into raid buff windows. You can probably hold a charge for about 10 seconds and then can’t use them outside the burst window or they won’t be up again in time.

Other than the fact you couldn’t open with it I’d say old onslaught was the best design for gap closers. Outside of your burst window it was dps neutral because of the gauge cost and inside the burst window you could still use it for damage without feeling like you were losing its utility thanks to the short recast.

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I doubt 150 potency will make or break if your DPS in grp is properly playing.

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

Except you can’t, because they do damage so you need to fit both charges into raid buff windows. You can probably hold a charge for about 10 seconds and then can’t use them outside the burst window or they won’t be up again in time.

Other than the fact you couldn’t open with it I’d say old onslaught was the best design for gap closers. Outside of your burst window it was dps neutral because of the gauge cost and inside the burst window you could still use it for damage without feeling like you were losing its utility thanks to the short recast.

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It's good to save 1 charge under any circumstances to keep GCD rolling and no delaying, you lose DPS burning all charges and no way returning uptime, or boss new position, that is the only reason to save the charge.