7.0 We need new caster and ranged dps balance the score

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Originally Posted by Sequora

Why would we see one more melee job before another caster or ranged DPS? Melee DPS is literally the most bloated category and we just got one.

Caster is next. Get over it

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Lumping all melee together, though, is a bit wrong too.

While not as strictly divided as casters and ranged physical, melee have traditionally been divided into support heavy (ninja and dragoon) and selfish (monk and samurai)

All that said, no one knows what they will add, assuming they even add more jobs at all. We all have to realize there will come a point where more jobs means so much extra work as to just not be feasible. I can't say I know where that sits right now on development, but when they stated that allocation of resources was the reason we don't have certain things in the game, at some point, new jobs will have to be reduced or stopped.

Since Meracydia is the Australia of Hydaelyn, we're getting a Boomerang ranged DPS in 7.0!

While I realize it was eventually axed and reworked into machinist, perhaps now is a good time to revive the old potential Musketeer class? Honestly you could probably just port the majority of the machinist weapons over to that class and then just design new machinist weapons to be more one-handed friendly, because right now they're one-handing carbines and rifles.

I can dream, but I've always been a sucker for muskets and other black powder firearms.

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Originally Posted by Ilyn

Thematically I think “Hunter” would be a cool job that could utilize scouting gear . . Maybe something in the lines of a duel wielder who has melee and ranged capabilities who can combo between 2 different style weapons. Curved Sword/ whip ?! My hot take lol

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So much this!! Throw in animals in some way and it would be my new main. I think Ranger or Pathfinder would be good names too.

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Originally Posted by wereotter

*Snip* and selfish (monk and samurai)

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Sad Monke noises, b-but.... Brotherhood and Manta.

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Originally Posted by AndieEldritch

Sad Monke noises, b-but.... Brotherhood and Manta.

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I didn't mean lacking support entirely ;) Brotherhood is great, though also selfish since the monk gets the buff and gets more chakra stacks out of it, but Mantra.... I rarely have needed this since no healing check is ever so tight as to require it.

It is handy, though, for newer healers struggling through harder-hitting dungeons.

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Originally Posted by wereotter

I didn't mean lacking support entirely ;) Brotherhood is great, though also selfish since the monk gets the buff and gets more chakra stacks out of it, but Mantra.... I rarely have needed this since no healing check is ever so tight as to require it.

It is handy, though, for newer healers struggling through harder-hitting dungeons.

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I know :d

We got a little at least ahah - and a party buff in exchange for chakra isn't selfish just an extra benefit for us :}

I just pop Manta when there's big group dmg anyway as a reflex.

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Originally Posted by wereotter

Lumping all melee together, though, is a bit wrong too.

While not as strictly divided as casters and ranged physical, melee have traditionally been divided into support heavy (ninja and dragoon) and selfish (monk and samurai)

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Except that\\\\\\\\\\'s more a distinction the community made. The devs clearly see them as "melee", nothing more nothing less.

With melee getting a fifth job. Caster and range are 2 jobs behind.
While we could have a 2 DPS extension for 7.0. it does make sense that at least one of the next job is a caster considering Y.P desire to have the same amount of job in every roles. And yes, range and caster are separated roles in the devs\\\\\\\\\\' mind.

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Originally Posted by wereotter

All that said, no one knows what they will add, assuming they even add more jobs at all. We all have to realize there will come a point where more jobs means so much extra work

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Except that new job are huge selling point. Adding a new extension with no jmnew jobs would be very poorly receive and probably affect sells in a very negative manner.

With SMN and MNK rework, very few job are now in line for a rework which down the line reduses workload. SMB got a pretty extensive and probably last major rework.
Unless they actually go for at least one major rework every extension, the new skills they add are probably not very time consulting.

If we take a good look at what EW brings to jobs that didn\\\\\\\\\\'t get an extensive rework (so all but 3) they actually didn\\\\\\\\\\'t get much.
Taking BLM for example, nearly nothing changed. Same goes for DRG, MCH and many others. That level of content update isn\\\\\\\\\\'t likely to cause too much burden even if we were to double the amount of jobs. Heck DRK litterally got a spell that was removed from HW ...

The real hurdle is to create a cohesive kit that players will enjoy for a new job. And this does not depend on the amount of job currently available. Once that done all you have to do is fill the gap in your design with 2-3 skills / traits once every 2 years. I wouldn\\\\\\\\\\'t say it only takes a few hours, but that\\\\\\\\\\'s hardly something that took them "a lot of time" compared to making 2 new jobs.

I mean they can be extremely Lazy about it, just looking at RDM,
70 - finisher
80 - finisher\\\\\\\\\\'s finisher
90 - finisher\\\\\\\\\\'s finisher\\\\\\\\\\'s finisher.

I doubt they\\\\\\\\\\'ll go for a 4th finisher but hey who knows, I tought they\\\\\\\\\\'d already stop there.
There are plenty of things to could do to make RDM better in my eyes. But what I enjoy might be wrongly recieved by other more casual players. In the end, the job is popular, probably the most popular caster... Why bother changing something that works. So you just rework a few of the clunky things, slap a new flashy spell (90 finisher) , update a few visual there and there and tadaa...

So I don\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t think there would ever be a point where adding a job would be too hard. The amount of job isn\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t an issue as unlike wow which attempts to reinvent the wheel every extension, ff14 doesn\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t change what works, and as time passes there are less clunky jobs so even less changes so less work.

Tbh their only next big hurdle will be the 5th healer... Pure healer? Shield healer? Both so we got AST issues all over again?

In all likelihood 7.0 will end up with two DPS. Whether they're both ranged on the other hand...

I mean, by the time 7.0 rolls around, we won't have had a new caster since 4.0's RDM, so it's definitely the next on the list. I look forward to our future Geomancer overlords, someone who can use Water magic and toss around Tornado and Quake because WHM is too cowardly to.

So assuming they keep the trend of 2 jobs per expansion, that leaves the question of the other slot. On the one hand, melee will have been the most recent DPS addition with RPR, and with a new caster all but assured to take the first slot, we'll have at least 4 jobs in every category except physical ranged. I would expect something like Corsair to be a natural fit, someone with dual pistols like Merlwyb. (Given the number of sword jobs we have across 3 roles, you'll forgive me for putting a distinction between handguns and MCH's carbines.)

On the other though, even ignoring the "5 melee vs 7 ranged" argument, NIN has its own category of gear, which RPR was specifically made to resolve for DRG despite the acknowledged "bloat" of melee jobs compared to each ranged category. By that metric, new melee to split Scouting gear would be in slightly more dire need... assuming they can figure out a job to use it. (Which would probably have to be a new invention of 14, given the dearth of classic "Scout-esque" jobs that don't overlap almost completely with ROG or NIN.)
If they did push a melee forward for 7.0 fresh off of RPR though, I wouldn't expect another until 10.0, except for maybe a limited job. (Which would make me sad for the chances of seeing a Spellblade, but I digress.)
Of course, given the problem is entirely with one job's gearing, it's possible they may resolve it some other way and move forward with another role.

Imo next expansion might be a scouting job and a caster job since they always add a melee job (tank counts as melee as well) and last caster was on StB while last physical ranged was on ShB

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Originally Posted by Sylvain

So I don\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t think there would ever be a point where adding a job would be too hard. The amount of job isn\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t an issue [...]

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Except Yoshi has acknowledged that, if the game continues for another 10 years, a day will come when they'll have stop making new jobs all together.

Honestly after we get 1 more scouting gear user, 1 more caster and 1 more physical ranged, I think it would be the perfect time to stop. Even if everyone loves new jobs theres already issues when balancing them and they are reaching their limit soon on how many jobs they can realistically add.

My guess would be that at one point some jobs share a weapon.
So you can use the DRK weapon for a melee job, a healer with sword an shield and a type of DPS caster who uses the WHM weapon

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Originally Posted by Curisu

My guess would be that at one point some jobs share a weapon.
So you can use the DRK weapon for a melee job, a healer with sword an shield and a type of DPS caster who uses the WHM weapon

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Not sure, considering how messy can be balance, allowing jobs to use several weapons each one with an specific set of skills on which everything must be balance seems a truckton of work that they will never, ever commit to, moreso when they acknowledged that a skill tree similar to WoW is a nightmare to balance, and that would be even worse.

Even on FF XI where you can use a "sub" job in the end was a real mess because certain sub jobs where infinitely better than others and enforced a meta of "if you are X job you can sub to 1-2-3, if you dare to go to 4, 6 or 7 you will be handicapped hard and probably youll have issues progressing, because people dont want dead weight in the party".

I can assure you they dont want the FFXI balance mess so they will play very very safe to avoid stepping on "dangerous tiles" so to speak

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Originally Posted by Curisu

My guess would be that at one point some jobs share a weapon.
So you can use the DRK weapon for a melee job, a healer with sword an shield and a type of DPS caster who uses the WHM weapon

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Considering SMN and SCH don't even share a weapon, I'm not sure the chances for this happening are good.
Especially because your job IS your weapon. You equip a weapon and that's the job you become. Tying multiple jobs to one weapon just sounds like a good way to mess with the backend.

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Originally Posted by Sylvain

Except that's more a distinction the community made. The devs clearly see them as "melee", nothing more nothing less.

With melee getting a fifth job. Caster and range are 2 jobs behind.
While we could have a 2 DPS extension for 7.0. it does make sense that at least one of the next job is a caster considering Y.P desire to have the same amount of job in every roles. And yes, range and caster are separated roles in the devs' mind.

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There will always be more melee than casters and ranged physical, even without that distinction. Look at the default of classic raid group composition. Two tanks, two healers, two melee, one caster, one ranged physical. Just based on the concept that for the 8-man party the ideal has often been to have two melee, you'd want more job options there to allow more diversity for the players of that role. The only time this has ever been even was a brief time in ARR when there were two melee and two casting DPS job, then ninja got added.

As far as more jobs, as stated Yoshida already confirmed there is a possibility in the future where the amount of work required to have more jobs will be too much. You have to factor in every time a new job is added it means every tier needs more weapons modeled, designed, and bug tested for clipping on every race with every move the job has. Not to mention that the more jobs you have, the more intricate the task becomes in creating balance between jobs in their role. They already struggle with this with the jobs they do have at times, so adding more jobs creates more opportunities for jobs within a role to fall behind. And the task of evaluating all those jobs every patch and determining what and how much to alter jobs is again, more time they have to spend. And eventually this might be more than they can/want to invest in the task.

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Originally Posted by Bhearil

Honestly after we get 1 more scouting gear user, 1 more caster and 1 more physical ranged, I think it would be the perfect time to stop. Even if everyone loves new jobs theres already issues when balancing them and they are reaching their limit soon on how many jobs they can realistically add.

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Not to mention maintaining them; i.e. several jobs that were basically ignored in ShB are getting ignored again in EW. Personally I'd be happy with just one (or no) new jobs in an expansion if it meant existing jobs getting more love (including new / updated low level abilities so they are such a bore to play in roulettes).

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Originally Posted by Acidblood

Not to mention maintaining them; i.e. several jobs that were basically ignored in ShB are getting ignored again in EW. Personally I'd be happy with just one (or no) new jobs in an expansion if it meant existing jobs getting more love (including new / updated low level abilities so they are such a bore to play in roulettes).

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Exactly, the more jobs they add the harder to focus on each one and it is better stop before reaching the breaking point. Honestly theres already a ton of jobs, and after those 3 I think it would be the perfect time to stop and start focusing on the existent jobs to give them more flavor instead

I can honestly see them adding some form of Class Specialization eventually.

SAM can finally be a Tank again etc. etc.

Given how many jobs we have at this point, I would not be surprised if they move to 1 per expansion moving forward.

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Originally Posted by Maxilor

I can honestly see them adding some form of Class Specialization eventually.

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What gives you this impression?
Have I missed something?

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Originally Posted by ItMe

What gives you this impression?
Have I missed something?

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I personally think it's a bit of a long shot, but I guess it would be one way to get around the problem of having to add more and more weapons.