I like that your AoE combo can now also apply your buff.
That's gonna feel smooth in dungeons~
Endwalker Warrior Looks Great
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10-19-2021, 08:26 AMItMe
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10-19-2021, 08:48 AMArthurATDayne
Despite the changes to weapon skill self-healing from damage done to static potency numbers, the Warrior to me is a damn fine tank with minimal identity or mechanical issues. Easy to figure out, relaxing to play and balls to wall exciting when you want it to be...
unlike a certain other tank that keeps getting gutted and changed because SquareEnix isn't confident or decisive about what they want it to be heh.
The only real negative I have against the Warrior is I don't like the Axes, maybe if I could glamour a Greatsword over the Axe. Then I'll be a Real Deal Warrior instead of Dark Knock-off Warrior -
10-19-2021, 05:40 PMNyneSwordzI also explained multiple times why it's mathematically insignificant to delay use of an onslaught charge from one raid buff window to the next as long as you don't cap.Quote:
Originally Posted by Absurdity
No one seems to want to address my point and keep parroting talking points.
Suppose you use all 3 charges in the first window. Then the next 2 min window u use 1 charge instead of dumping all 2, the next window u dump 2, saving 1 charge for when u need to gap close.
If you end up not needing it, you can dump all 3 charges in the last raid window and it would make zero difference to your dps. -
10-19-2021, 05:48 PMNyneSwordzI just did. See above. It's the reason why charges exist. The maximum amount of gap closers you can use in a fighting are determined by the total time of the fight divided by the cooldown of the gap closer plus the initial stock of charges you start the fight with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Videra
That's it.
Whether you dump max charges as soon as its available or roll a charge over makes no difference whatsoever to your dps or the the number of gap closers you can get off in a fight.
The only difference is whether the use of the gap closer falls within the raid buff window and for the ones that do not and are used for actually gap closing, whether that nets more dps than it would gad it fallen withing a buff window.
Are you enlightened now? -
10-19-2021, 05:56 PMNyneSwordz
Sometimes I wonder if people are talking about gap closers the way they are because of how stuns used to be with damage attached.
Or how plunge was single charge in heavensward and stormblood.
They aren't the same thing and the problem with stuns and plunge is no doubt why they introduced charges in shadowbringer.
Maybe it was an imperfect solution but devs again made changes to personal burst window (ir) as well increasing the number of charges for wars to 3.
It's not an issue as long as it's possible to delay use of one charge and keep rolling it over without over capping on max charges between raid buffs. -
10-19-2021, 07:26 PMDuskane
i just think gap closers should have no damage on it just as utility
and just give tanks some damage CD like spirits within -
10-19-2021, 07:37 PMMezzoforteOk so you ask for a specific single example. You get it immediately. Then you shift your goal posts. You were proven wrong. Shifting those posts is just bad form at that point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Videra
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10-19-2021, 10:30 PMwhiskeybravo
It's usually fairly obvious when you need to hold a charge or not, 1 or 2 walks of shame back to the boss should be enough
However, that discussion does not address the underlying concern that WAR had a perfectly suitable gap closer without having to rely on a stacking oGCD system like the other tanks. Practically no difference between current Onslaught and "holding a stack", effectively making any extra stacks simple bonus dps.
There would need to be a 2 or 3 fold increase in the frequency with which we need to gap close for this to be anything other than a braindead dps buff. -
10-20-2021, 12:41 AMItMeI'm happy about this to be honest.Quote:
Originally Posted by whiskeybravo
I much prefer to use my gap closer to close gaps than for more potency inside raid buffs.
It also just feels better to have a movement skill not just reduced to whatever it's potency is, and the fact that my dashes won't be treated like soulless oGCD damage buttons as often is a good change in my book. -
10-20-2021, 02:23 AMphantomr23Last I checked that is in fact still attempting to use every charge under raid buffs, though this ignores the fact that not every single raid buff window is created equal. Dumping an equal amount in every window "just in case" is still a loss over dumping more in heavier windows. Also, the main complaint is that putting a potency number on your gap closer feels bad when it's so meaningless, they could very much keep gap closers for their intended purpose without this weird "oops, you used your utility skill out of raid buffs, hope you feel bad about that" situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by NyneSwordz
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10-21-2021, 10:49 AMVideraOr, get this, I was saying they were a rarity in the first place. And I was wrong, so I accepted that fact. Thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mezzoforte
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10-25-2021, 01:37 PMMarxamI wouldn't say to give gap closers no damage, but rather, put a cost to it. Onslaught currently works that way. Sure it does damage but the cost of using it puts it squarely into the utility role. It's there when you need it and you use it only when you need to. The changes to onslaught is just a slippery slope for giving WAR a continuation-like combo every min where you want to have 3 onslaughts ready for that TA window and just weave it in between FC's. Call me old fashioned but I like to keep my ogcds free for using defensive cds. If you don't believe me, ask any GNB main if they use defensive cds during continuation and if they find it fun.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duskane
Everything else about WAR is good and Primal Rend as an optional gap closer is great, though Orogeny could have just been an aoe upgrade like PLD's Expacion but that animation is odd and the less I see of it the better. It's in the same tier as golf swing inner chaos. -
10-25-2021, 06:47 PMAluja89
Sure, if you think it was possible to make it even more braindead is great.
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10-25-2021, 07:48 PMDuskaneits hard to put a cost on something with how other 3 are madeQuote:
Originally Posted by Marxam
put it on oath gauge thats all it'll be used for,giving it a cartridge cost is just a detriment to GNB and making it cost MP or Blood for DRK would just add to design flaws of DRK
the cost worked for Onslaught but thats pretty much it
right now they are pretty much used up every 60 seconds unless there is a mechanic that says otherwise where we have to hold a charge,be much healthier design if it was just none damaging utility even if it was just one charge would be fine
granted I don't want gap closer to get role skilled.
it would be much better if we had some random damage OGCD like spirits within but flows a bit better with the kits each tanks have, example like Brutal swing CD shorten by 5 second each fell cleave ,Scourge (pretend its an OGCD) that adds a dot which ticks blood for DRK etc etc -
10-26-2021, 01:44 AMLyth
I'm not sure if I'm understanding the tooltip change correctly, but does IR now effectively give you 50% uptime on the stun/sleep/bind/heavy/knockback/draw-in negation effect? You might as well be wearing a Ribbon accessory at this point.
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10-26-2021, 02:02 AMTheOperator3712It does not. If you watch the GameSpot Trailers' run of the 81 dungeon, you can see during the last boss that all weaponskills consume a stack of the debuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyth
Timestamped links for reference, spoilers:
https://youtu.be/J4UN9rqibIo?t=1545
https://youtu.be/J4UN9rqibIo?t=1917
As you can see from that footage, IR is only the 3 stacks and can be maintained for a maximum of 4 GCDs(early primal rend) without incurring downtime. -
10-26-2021, 03:01 AMMagiusNecros
Looks like all weaponskills use up IR stacks. With the exception of Primal Rend, Onslaught and Upheaval/Orogeny if Onslaught is anything to go by.
This does confirm sadly that Infuriate's Chaos attacks would indeed use up a IR stack. So Infuriate will need to be separate from IR I think.
This is probably done so the immunity to most status isn't super broken. -
10-26-2021, 12:57 PMHalfgeeekYeah, I get that same vibe when playing DRK. Feels like WAR-lite, with more spammy attacks for "fast pace".. but WAR is like, fewer button presses, but each button does a lot more omph. Feels better to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArthurATDayne
EW WAR looks to go even more comfy. Bloodwhetting procs on AoE is just great, now 8s of invincibility in mass pulls! :D -
10-26-2021, 01:10 PMMarxamIt's still pretty good. KB immune every min and assuming you PR first giving you 4 gcds before IR is done. That's roughly 8-9 secs of KB immune on avg and you can still pre pop assuming it still stays at 30 secs duration. The other status effects are mostly useless since it rarely happens in raids with only one-off instances to be an issue. I'm only suspicious of that because a lot of the other "stack" skills are also 30 secs which makes me think there might be some tuning but hopefully it does stay at 30 secs. Otherwise its literally how you are playing WAR right now. Don't infuriate during IR and use up any IC/CC skills prior to IR.Quote:
Originally Posted by MagiusNecros
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10-27-2021, 02:44 AMArthurATDayneWhen Endwalker comes out The Blackest Night is going to look even more like an overrated skill and only copious amounts of Copium Consumption will make it feel better. Gee 1 Tankbuster Negated by TBN? Big Deal, Warrior can negate 10/20/30% of it AND Heal Through the damage if mitigation isn't perfectly timed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Halfgeeek
TBN mistimed? Abyssal Drain and 1/2/3 combo ain't gonna save you, better pray for big heals. Oh TBN bubble popped and taking a lot of damage, well you still got uh Rampart (which Warrior has) and Shadow Wall (which warrior has Better version of that hits back!), Don't worry there's still Dark Mind & Dark Missionary... Magic damage only, Fuck!
Oh Thank the Gods, TBN is ready, TBN after you taken huge damage to hopefully recover and low on HP, too bad, terrible self heals aren't going to save you, better pray for big heals NOW.
I like how with Warrior you can still make mistakes and recover easily, there's just so many fallback layered All Damage type mitigation choices and the self sustain mechanics are top notch.
https://preview.redd.it/st8q41pgdpr7...=webp&a4009f96
Level 82 Bloodwhetting 8s of 10% Reduced Damage Taken, 8s of 400 Potency Heal with Each Weaponskill Successfully Delivered, 30s 400 Potency Heal Shield, 4s of additional 10% Reduced Damage Taken. All on FREE no Resource Cost 25s CD
And Warrior Still has Thrill of Battle, Vengeance, Shake it Off 15% Max HP Bubble, Holmgang it can use for personal mitigation and an extra Heal Over Time Effect on Equilibrium 1200 Potency Instant Self Heal 60s CD. Not even counting the shared Tank Mitigation skills like Rampart, Reprisal, Arm's Length, Holy Shit.
The Warrior will continue being a True Layered Defense against All Damage Types, HP & DPS Resource Self Sustaining, Top Tier Tank.
At this time the only real thing that Dark Knockoff Warrior has that I'd personally consider an advantage Currently besides TBN is the ease that they can apply & maintain their 10% damage buff via Edge or Flood skills. Well in Endwalker, the Warrior can apply & maintain it via the 2 AOE Combo and not just the 1/2/3 or 1/2/4 single target combo. -
10-27-2021, 03:22 AMMagiusNecros
Edge and Flood costs 3000 MP. Warrior damage up buff costs one GCD combo but more or less never will fall off as it costs nothing.
It will be interesting to see how much a 400 potency heal gives Warriors on Nascent and Bloodwhetting since the heals will be on average the same for each GCD regardless of what it is. Might be a nerf from current Nascent given the HP restore on IR Cleaves are 10k or more and Inner Chaos heals are running close to 20k heals per hit. But on the same token every 25 seconds you are healing yourself and also getting 10%-20% mitigation on top of a damage shield. Crazy.
And when you get into AoE in big pulls you may as well be invincible for those 8 seconds in EW with lots of targets.
Unlike Warrior, Dark Knight can't come back from lots of damage and relies on a healer big time. A Warrior played right can sustain a whole lot of crap WITHOUT a healer and if it uses all it's oh shit heals can Holmgang and become the comeback king.
Which it's looking like only Warrior and Paladin will be capable of doing.
If you solo content in Bozja right now if things go south for a Dark Knight or Gunbreaker you're in for a bad time. Warrior or Paladin though has a lot of tools to afford mistakes and come back from it without assistance.
It's ridiculous in Bozja when as a DRK you really only have Souleater or Abyssal. Meanwhile Warrior can just go "oh I lost 30k health? No problem." And heals it right back up. And TBN can only prevent damage once every 15 seconds but after that you are screwed once the shield breaks with the lack of sustain options. And it costs MP. All those other TBN tank abilities the others have? What does it cost? Free. Just UGH.
Endwalker additions for all tanks with the exception of Dark Knight look very promising mitigation wise. -
10-27-2021, 06:47 AMArthurATDayne
Since Bloodwhetting lasts 8s, at 400 Potency Heal per Weapon Skill landed for entire duration, if you can squeeze in at least 3 Any Weapon Skills on just a single target that's a 1200 Potency Heal every 25s CD use, pretty much a Paladin's Clemency every 25s at least, 400 Potency Heal mini Bubble for 30s AND 10% 8s, 10% 4s All Damage Type Mitigation. For FREE.
Wow that's way better than a Clemency every 25s, Incredible.
Can't wait!
The work that went into Warrior/Paladin/Gunbreaker's Mitigation & Sustain are all welcomed and yeah, promising indeed.
Might even take Gunbreaker more seriously too, Heart of Stone upgraded to Heart of Corundum Yes Plz. Dark Knight... not so much. -
10-27-2021, 02:25 PMHalfgeeekYou speak truth!Quote:
Originally Posted by MagiusNecros
After being used to WAR in Bozja just man handling huge pulls without breaking a sweat, literally, HP goes from 100% -> 20% -> 100% with one Cyclone + NF heal, or against bosses, low HP after tank buster, to full HP with Infuriate Chaos crits, followed by Fell Cleaves and Equilibrium, I just can't do DRK, its just outright inferior.
The fact that WAR gives up nothing doing this, as it's basically part of the damage dealing abilities, while DRK gives up 3K MP, and if shield does not break within 7s, its wasted MP that could be big dmg. It just feels bad playing DRK after playing WAR 80.
PLD changes are awesome too, since they get self-heal from their magic nukes and since Req no longer requires 100% MP for the dmg buff, you don't have to save MP giving them more flexibility. Holy Shelltron is a better TBN to be frank, so much mitigation to reduce the dmg taken, then regen to heal up after. -
10-28-2021, 03:33 AMArthurATDayneAll Hail WAR & PLD, the Return of the Comeback Kings, from Bozja, anywhere in Eorzea & The First.Quote:
Originally Posted by MagiusNecros
GNB not looking shabby at all going into Endwalker, they getting way better sustain than DRK so maybe there's a little seat for GNB too. -
10-28-2021, 03:27 PMMarxamits 4 gcds at 2.38-2.36 recast, depending on your ping you may need more or less. Basically instead of fitting five gcds into IR windows you are fitting four into BW/NF windows. So the heal is actually 1600 during those 8 secs, assuming the potencies stay the same a launch. It was a good change imo and gives incentive to use defensive cds more optimally which all tanks should strive for. It also means that NF heals you and a target for 1600 each.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArthurATDayne