Effects of ping/latency on animation lock and ability to perform rotations normally.

+4 shameless bump

This and a few other things he's said in these media tour interviews has me on board with something I've heard around here for awhile, which is that the devs really don't account for feedback outside of Japan very much.

Hopefully the question being asked so directly and with specific examples will at least put it on the radar for them.

+1 bump, pls

+1 bump, really hoping the devs acknowledge this one day.

xivalexander is pretty much our only option. I'm east coast and can double weave even while moving without clipping with it. If he doesn't even know what we're talking about after like 8 years I doubt it's ever gonna get fixed.

Daily bump squad :)

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Originally Posted by FrogDog

This and a few other things he's said in these media tour interviews has me on board with something I've heard around here for awhile, which is that the devs really don't account for feedback outside of Japan very much.

Hopefully the question being asked so directly and with specific examples will at least put it on the radar for them.

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Frankly, it feels to me that the North American side of the community engagement team has terribly dropped the ball on expressing a lot of the concerns here to the Japan team. Or maybe there just isn't enough time/weight given to communication from NA to Japan. I, however, really do feel more comfortable saying it's the former. YoshiP himself always seems open to taking feedback and at least considering what he's told, but it's basically crickets around here as far as any communication at all from the community engagement team. I mean, if we can't even tell that they're paying attention at all to the official forums, how confident can we be that they're taking commentary here and relaying it to Japan.

Off topic for this thread, but it feels like the Healer debate is in the same space. Clearly YoshiP has heard some of the discussion about healers not being happy but he seems to not really understand Why healers aren't happy. It shouldn't be on content creators in their bi annual interview time to try and explain things to him.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FrogDog

This and a few other things he's said in these media tour interviews has me on board with something I've heard around here for awhile, which is that the devs really don't account for feedback outside of Japan very much.

Hopefully the question being asked so directly and with specific examples will at least put it on the radar for them.

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Would it be better to post a similar thread to this one in japanese, in the JP part of the forums?

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Originally Posted by QooEr

Would it be better to post a similar thread to this one in japanese, in the JP part of the forums?

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Yes it would as matter of fact I would recommend it.

There have been several ping topic threads made in JP, they have all been similarly ignored. Still, more wouldn't hurt.

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Originally Posted by QooEr

Would it be better to post a similar thread to this one in japanese, in the JP part of the forums?

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the only way i could conceivably see this ever reaching the eyes of yoship is if someone is able to translate it into japanese, printed, and shipped/hand-delivered to the SE building

As a Brazilian playing on the US servers I feel this. My ping is about 240ms without a VPN, and 180ms with a VPN. It's terrible that even paying a VPN subscription I still have a very high ping.

I'm used to playing MMO's on US servers but most of them have a much better route. In WoW for example my average ping is 160ms on US servers.

So combine the horrible route and the game code issue and I'm ended up with a nearly unplayable experience with some jobs like MCH

I started playing this year and I'm loving the game, but this issue is very clear and I hope they can do something about it. I'm also from Brazil with 200+ latency, and even though this topic always brings Machinist to discussion, the clipping issues with high ping affects basically all classes. On Black Mage if you try things like Fire III > Enochian that will clip (Enochian changes in Endwalker will help that at least), on Red Mage 90% of the time it clips after using Displacement (even without any weaving), Dark Knight feels very slow single-weaving, and you need to use Salted Earth like mid GCD because before that it'll not even register the skill. Carve and Spit and the Dragoon jumps you also need to use early otherwise it can clip on single-weaving. The same for Bard, it feels much worse without double-weaving and late procs need to be dellayed to be used after the next GCD.

It's possible to double weave on a few skill combinations but you need to use them at the precise moment. I don't think the game is terrible with high ping, it's still fluid somehow, but after testing the noclippy plugin, it's a complete different world.

I think they should take a look at what noclippy and xivalexander do to see what happens with the game animation lock, and how they can implement a similar non-exploitable solution. Perhaps their internal test environment does not simulate this extra animation lock added by the latency, and could be the reason why they don't see the clipping issues.

+2, can't let this get buried.

I think we really need someone who has the opportunity to talk to him directly to explain very clearly the exact problems players have and i dont know if we will ever get that chance. I feel people who get interviews have things they view as a higher priority to ask him.

Buuuuuuuuuuuummmpp

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Originally Posted by grinkdaboy

the only way i could conceivably see this ever reaching the eyes of yoship is if someone is able to translate it into japanese, printed, and shipped/hand-delivered to the SE building

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Perhaps this will be the first thing I will do when my Japanese reaches a respectable level of understanding...

I'm not sure if terms like clipping and double weaving even have Japanese counterparts. I wouldn't be surprised if translating this question was a problem for the translator and not just Yoshi P not getting it. I wonder if anyone could do like a silent youtube video with pointers and the like showing the issue. Japanese forum is dead and doesn't get a lot of discussion.

My Japanese is good enough that I can play the game fully in Japanese and read the story. I've found mistakes in official works before, but I couldn't even think of how you'd say,
"the extra animation lock on spells is made worse than it needs to be on higher latency. There's an animation lock reset after the client receives data, this reset isn't necessary. double weaving ocd spells is hard due to this issue. and even single weaves are effected. Some jobs like Machinist suffer clear dps loss as they cannot cast fast enough."

:confused:
Also I don't understand the Machinist situation at all, I don't play that job.
Want to help but even in English it's hard to explain this issue.

i really hope this gets fixed cause having to use a plugin that is borderline on cheating to be able to play the job properly unless you live like next door to the data center is just bad game design

Bump, please look into this.

Anyone remember original Ninja?
I member.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

Anyone remember original Ninja?
I member.

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What? A job with 4 finishers (5 by HW), 2 regularly rotated DoTs, and far more fluid (at least for low-ping players) oGCD mudras? Barbarians, surely.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

and far more fluid (at least for low-ping players)

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Replace that with '' perfect ping at all times, but not rly cuz SE servers bad ''.

Throwing my voice in to support the OP.
It's also very noticeable when the NTT node decides to drop packets like they're sacks of popotoes.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

Replace that with '' perfect ping at all times, but not rly cuz SE servers bad ''.

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Or *cough* certain addons for handling the terrible server query-animation lock interactions, as to remove ping-based uptime costs, that *cough* should be baseline functionality anyways.

At any rate, for me it was still a smoother experience when the servers were across the US from me (with a VPN I needed anyways to keep packet loss from being horrendous) than when the servers moved to within 100 but the Mudras were slapped onto the GCD.

Created an account just to bump this. I got really sad watching that ping question and hearing that Yoshi P never heard of it. I've seen people complaining about this for years. This is just my contribution. Please fix this, I really like MCH, but it saddens me that I'll never be able to play my favorite job because of where I live.

This topic is extremely relevant, and I firmly believe that they could "fix it" or fundamentally change this design for a better one with almost no development resources. It seems to me that Yoshida could just go talk to the right guy and bam the next hotfix update would make everyone's gameplay better by 1000%. I know that Yoshida is overly cautions (specially with client calculated information) but there is not a single con to changing it. It just like in ARR you couldn't change jobs anywhere in the world (it has to be a settlement or a city) because he feared that could get abused (which time has proven that was not the case). Or when Yoshida was extremely reluctant to reset cds after a wipe because, well people will abuse it!. The latter was a major quality of life for the game and having the server not overwrite the client's own animation lock timing would be an even bigger change that would put this game into the next level of gameplay.

We don't know how their codebase works, so we shouldn't make any assumptions about what amount of development resources it would require to fix. A 3rd party tool can see all the client's data and hack at it however it wants with little regard for what might break, but best practices for programming are to hide data so that only the parts of the code that need it can see it. This helps to ensure that unrelated parts of the code can't break each other, but it could mean that fixing this is more complex that it seems.

If anyone is sending this feedback to the dev team, here are two hopefully simple solutions I think we would find acceptable:

1. Compensate for ping when handling animation lock times. Assume I use an action that the server says takes 700 ms, and assume it takes 200 ms for me to receive that message from the server. The current behavior is to wait 700 ms on top of the 200 ms I have already waited, so the action actually takes 900 ms. I have already waited 200 ms, so I should only need to wait another 500 ms to get the intended duration.

2. Change Hypercharge, Wildfire, Blood Weapon, and all similar actions to work like Bunshin. Give them a more lenient duration, and use buff stacks so they end after the desired number of actions.

I used to have terrible ping on top of having to connect to NA before the European server relocation, so I know how much this sucks. I still don't play any of the jobs I had latency problems with.

+1 for support

I play in Brazil with 160 ping. I can't play most jobs without feeling the lockup when I double weave. Please fix the animation lock on this game!

Bump, can't let this disappear.

Another reason to add to the list of why the game needs a new engine, badly.

I cant even mirage dive single weave without a clip any advice

I’m live on the Canadian east coast and my ping on avg is 95-100ms. The last couple weeks I’ve noticed a huge increase in input lag, making cast sliding and double weaving become almost impossible, even being interrupted mid cast. My internet connection has been rock solid and no changes from my ISP. I’m at the point where the game is becoming not enjoyable and will have to resort to a VPN client. It would be nice if SE would recognize this issue.

Try doing a tracert when you're experiencing these lag spikes and posting them here.

And yeah SE really likes to ignore these longstanding latency issues. >_< (I don't know if they understand what it feels like to game across a continent instead of an island)

Just bringing this back up to keep it in dev team's radar since I didn't see anything about ping acknowledgements in the preliminary patch notes for Endwalker. Didn't really expect anything but these problems don't go away by brushing them aside. First page posts are still very much relevant and the discussion should go on.

Bump because if only SE would find this stuff like they did the error 2002 bug

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Originally Posted by silentcall

I’m live on the Canadian east coast and my ping on avg is 95-100ms. The last couple weeks I’ve noticed a huge increase in input lag, making cast sliding and double weaving become almost impossible, even being interrupted mid cast. My internet connection has been rock solid and no changes from my ISP. I’m at the point where the game is becoming not enjoyable and will have to resort to a VPN client. It would be nice if SE would recognize this issue.

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The issue can't be on SE's side if a VPN fixes it.

It means that at some point, the nodes your ISP is using to connect to SE's servers are being lil shitters, and the issue has to be resolved between your ISP and the backbone nodes it connects to.

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Originally Posted by silentcall

I’m live on the Canadian east coast and my ping on avg is 95-100ms.

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Ah, I dream of a connection that good. I really do. I'd even be happier with a 200ms ping.

I've been playing at 280-320ms for 9 years. It goes beyond animation lock. A lot of telegraphs are too short, meaning by the time I see them they have almost gone off.

Bump prompted by hearing about a poor sap who's trying to play Machinist from Indonesia to EU