Who wilst depart the mortal realm in 6.0?

why does Zenos have to be anyone at all? can't he just be a strong dude that likes to punch other strong dudes? he was a lot more fun when he was just that instead of Asahi's executioner in his mwahaha nihilistic 4d chess plan

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Originally Posted by lezard21

why does Zenos have to be anyone at all? can't he just be a strong dude that likes to punch other strong dudes? he was a lot more fun when he was just that instead of Asahi's executioner in his mwahaha nihilistic 4d chess plan

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I mean to be fair Zenos has never not been a somebody. He's the heir to the throne and even circumvented the garlean inability to manipulate aether by experimenting on his own body. The man has been around!

I always assumed Zenos is to Garlemald that the WoL is to Eorzea. The big stick you swing when you need to get things done. Looking to crush spirits with overwhelming force? Quell a rebellion that's been a thorn in your side? Get rid of someone who is considered unbeatable by their home turf? Dial 1-800-ZENOS and he'll get the job done! Varis may have been a bad parent that let his son be formed into an uncaring degenerate but, boy howdy does he know how to use him.

[after seeing the new trailer from the live letter]

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

yep, that glass panel where they show the WoL and all the scions but Alphinaud with him thanking them for everything has risen his risk in my book to 90%

mah boi is in danger, lmao

Given their penchant for being misleading in the trailers, I'm not very hasty to interpret anything as a death flag.

At this point they've pulled so many fake deaths that I can't buy any death tease, so that final shot means nothing.

Here's a wild card death that's absolutely possible.

Us, the Warrior of Light.

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Originally Posted by ElysiumDragon

Here's a wild card death that's absolutely possible.

Us, the Warrior of Light.

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I could genuinely see that happening as part of a necessary sacrifice to save the world...though we'd obviously end up being revived somehow.

It would still be interesting if not just to see how it affects everyone we know if we're gone long enough to convince them we aren't coming back.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I could genuinely see that happening as part of a necessary sacrifice to save the world...though we'd obviously end up being revived somehow.

It would still be interesting if not just to see how it affects everyone we know if we're gone long enough to convince them we aren't coming back.

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Perhaps it will end like it started...we're brought back somehow, but nobody remembers what The Warrior of Light looks like. They know of our personal accomplishments in Ishgard (we're still too attached to it) and Bozja (we were just another soldier), but nobody remembers us being a primal slayer, or the adventures. Until the ending cutscene after the credits, where we get a single line that can be said while walking past the Scions, awakening their memory of us, while we continue walking, with our head turned and our finger in front of our mouth, as if to say "Keep it a secret." Cue the FF main theme.

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Originally Posted by lezard21

yep, that glass panel where they show the WoL and all the scions but Alphinaud with him thanking them for everything has risen his risk in my book to 90%

mah boi is in danger, lmao

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I don't think it hints at his death. I think more like he is retiring from the Scions to take up a more important path. Maybe taking over for his father? Or at least some position within Sharlayan.

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Originally Posted by Delis

I don't think it hints at his death. I think more like he is retiring from the Scions to take up a more important path. Maybe taking over for his father? Or at least some position within Sharlayan.

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Definitely a possibility. But they did too many death fake-outs in ShB. If Six Point Zero is The End, the Final Days, and the finale to the last eleven years of story, an impactful death (or something that creates a major separation/extreme parting) would seem to be in order for a main character. Maybe all of the above? Imagine if one or more characters no longer recognize us or remember our time together.

I don't have any idea where people are getting this Alphinaud death stuff from. I didn't get even the slightest indication of that, it just seems like your standard "This is the final battle, guys!" pep talk in JRPGs. Nothing about death at all.

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Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

I don't have any idea where people are getting this Alphinaud death stuff from. I didn't get even the slightest indication of that, it just seems like your standard "This is the final battle, guys!" pep talk in JRPGs. Nothing about death at all.

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In most media, when somebody gives a speech like that in a trailer that feels like a farewell, they die. It's a common trope, so when it's seen it's automatically a death flag. This doesn't mean they'll die, but because it's a trope (and thus cliche), the expectation (like it or not) is there. Which is why it's nice when it's not followed. It could either be his death flag, or another fake out like SE loves to do during trailers.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

In most media, when somebody gives a speech like that in a trailer that feels like a farewell, they die. It's a common trope, so when it's seen it's automatically a death flag. This doesn't mean they'll die, but because it's a trope (and thus cliche), the expectation (like it or not) is there. Which is why it's nice when it's not followed. It could either be his death flag, or another fake out like SE loves to do during trailers.

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Ehh, I just don't agree with this. That wasn't a death speech. That was a "Speech on the eve of the final battle" speech. They're two different things.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

At this point they've pulled so many fake deaths that I can't buy any death tease, so that final shot means nothing.

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Yeah, it's pretty sad to say that I just straight up don't trust the writers when it comes to any deaths on the main characters. Y'shtola had a fake death in Stormblood and then again in Shadowbringers, Thancred had his fake death in Shadowbringers, G'raha Tia "died" but not really in Shadowbringers. I dunno, I don't expect them to actually pull the trigger at this point, and the most likely scenario is that we'll get a cutscene where Y'shtola does something dumb and gets her third fake death in a row. Hell, they could honestly have Zenos chop her head off and throw it at Tataru five minutes into the MSQ and I'll still be sitting there thinking "she's faking it".

Urianger.

I mean, maybe it's me but he still hasn't fully made up for sending Minfillia to her demise. Yes, it's to save the First and set in motion Shadowbringers, but seems he got off too easy. Felt like they handwaved his consequences by having Minfillia, now Word of the Mother, admit she'd pay that price gladly. He also almost turned the WoL into a sin-eater by going along with the Exarch's plan when that plan went belly up. Then in the Eden raid, he wanted to keep even more secrets regarding the changes after beating the first four battles. Feels like he might need to come to terms with the parts he has played. We'll need a new trust healer at some point. Perhaps Krile could fill that role as a healer trust NPC.

Thancred?
I recall someone posted his tweet about it being his last role. Either he retires or well...
Also noting that Fordola has been getting more screen time in the last two patches, and carries a sword/shield. I "think" she has a half resonant? She'd make a powerful ally and potential Trust to replace a tank slot since without Thancred we have WoL and Graha. One has to wonder if they do retire/kill off a Scion, will it mean they are gone from the Trust roster permanently?

Though maybe we won't see any of them getting killed off, possibly retired or "shelved for a few expansions." After all they did tout post 6.0 it's a new adventure, new (mostly) companions.

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Originally Posted by Tracewood

Urianger.

I mean, maybe it's me but he still hasn't fully made up for sending Minfillia to her demise. Yes, it's to save the First and set in motion Shadowbringers, but seems he got off too easy. Felt like they handwaved his consequences by having Minfillia, now Word of the Mother, admit she'd pay that price gladly. He also almost turned the WoL into a sin-eater by going along with the Exarch's plan when that plan went belly up. Then in the Eden raid, he wanted to keep even more secrets regarding the changes after beating the first four battles. Feels like he might need to come to terms with the parts he has played. We'll need a new trust healer at some point. Perhaps Krile could fill that role as a healer trust NPC.

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I love character drama and I think it would be a very interesting plot point if this expansions "Urianger Lie™" Ended up NOT panning out as he expected. Urianger keeping a secret usually turns out to be beneficial for a majority of the parties involved even if they don't know it and if the deal is sweet enough he's willing to push it. "One life for One world such was the bargain and you the coin." However, I think if he tried this again and it ended up blowing up in his face with tangible consequences to the rest of the scions watching that schism form would be really entertaining. What that plan doomed to fail is? I have no idea! But, it would still be fun to play through!

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I could genuinely see that happening as part of a necessary sacrifice to save the world...though we'd obviously end up being revived somehow.

It would still be interesting if not just to see how it affects everyone we know if we're gone long enough to convince them we aren't coming back.

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I believe this is actually the answer. We work like Midgardsomer. When the star faces a Calamity, Azem is summoned. The problem is we have failed every time. We were supposed to die before the 8th calamity but Graha saved us. The same thing happened during the 7th but Louisoux saved us and "Sent us forward in time by 5 years." I'm certain now we are pulling a Noctis.

I'd say the Lore from the end of the Dragonsong War up to the end of ShadowBringers has been to me, extremely un-interesting. I'd honestly not be the slightest bit off if a single or all of the supporting cast died at this point.. And I actually "hope" a few do, because I found their arcs to be obtuse (Thancred up there, Lyse also. Would MUCH rather see Rab leading Ala Mhigo). Seeing someone die in game to me would mean virtually nothing at this point, and I really hope the MSQ puts me on the edge of my seat again at some point in the future.

Ascians also became much less "cool" or interesting to me during the 5.post stuff. Just really looking forward to a new chapter honestly. Shake it up. Spin it around. etc.

Endwalker is basically the Infinity War / Endgame of FFXIV phase one.

Safety spoilers for MCU:

MCU killed off 2 original Avengers. It wouldn't be a stretch to kill off at least 1 scion.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

Zelda deaths single digits series wide

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Bravo on not watching Games of Thrones. I never did, either.

As for that assertion... nooooo Madame, no Madaaaaaaame!

In Link to the Past, Link's Uncle, the King, and the Priest at Sanctuary all die. They're revived through the Triforce at the very end, but they did die! That's body count for good guys, 3 already.

Ocarina of Time? -> Deku Tree dies from Ganondorf's curse. Soldier in the back alley between Ganondorf shooting Link in the face and going to Temple of Time. Dampe the gravekeeper dies(unspecified how). Count up to 6. There are other times in the game where characters disappear only to be seen later in spirtual form, such as Darunia when he goes to face Volvagia alone before you do the entire Fire Temple. Won't count them because they still have agency, but man, people be dying left and right, especially if you count those.

Oracle of Ages? -> Maku Tree gets ganked by moblins. Brought back, but still a death. Goron Elder crushed under a boulder. Brought back later, still died. King Zora dies from poison, same song third verse. All of Symmetry City... we'll say count is 9 + One City.

Link's Awakening? -> Dunno, do you count the end of the dream as the end of all Koholint Island? If so... that's a lotta death! 9 + 1 City + 1 Island-Sorta

Majora's Mask? Mikau... though you keep him as a mask, and he later gets to live again. Zelda is a lot like DBZ... huh. 10 + 1 City + 1 Island-Sorta

Twilight Princess? Queen Rutela, most likely killed by Zant. One of Ganondorf's sealers/executioners iirc... 12 + 1 City + 1 Island Sorta

Breath of the Wild? -> The four champions, albeit 100 years prior to playable events. 16 + 1 City + 1 Island-Sorta

And that's before we list all of the people Link himself has killed and is able to kill! (Most notably, the Thief in Majora's Mask, who you can kill with an arrow on your last Days cycle before you beat it... he doesn't appear again after the credits either way...).

Okay, I'll concede the point on everything except Link's Awakening! Link's Awakening is abstract and weird enough that you can reasonably say they aren't doing cheap 'deaths for tension's sake' storytelling, there's some strong creativity and writing there.

It's still kinda remarkably low, and note how many perfectly solid games just don't add to that counter.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

Okay, I'll concede the point on everything except Link's Awakening! Link's Awakening is abstract and weird enough that you can reasonably say they aren't doing cheap 'deaths for tension's sake' storytelling, there's some strong creativity and writing there.

It's still kinda remarkably low, and note how many perfectly solid games just don't add to that counter.

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A good adventure tale doesn't need many/doesn't need them to be bloody. For me Zelda's always held a place as a brain teaser with combat, and I love it for that. Combat's gotten better over the years, whereas the puzzles haven't always kept up...

Still waiting on Nabooru to give me that good thing she promised T_T!

The Legend of Zelda games are pretty good, but they're also seemingly designed for a younger audience first and foremost. Furthermore, there's usually black and white morality at play given that none of the characters have a whole lot of depth to them unless you really go digging for plot elements that aren't necessarily present in the games themselves. Final Fantasy games are generally targeted at a slightly older audience and range from being light hearted adventures to bleak and brutal journeys.

I think there's a balance to be struck when it comes to character deaths. The multiple fake deaths for certain characters are just as irritating to me as random mass death for the sake of mass death would be. It's reached the point where if I see a character die I assume that there's a pretty high chance that they'll return somehow. Which isn't a good thing and I raise an eyebrow whenever I see people get up in arms over trailer scenes where a character is implied to 'die' when fake outs have been actively embraced since the end of ARR.

I'm fairly certain that Zendaniel needs to impale at least one of your closest friends in order to make you take them seriously. Otherwise you know that we're just going to befriend them and redeem them. My money is on someone who has both a gap closer and a raise.

In one scene we see Fandaniel on the moon without his legs. Either it was some weird bug that the devs overlooked when making the trailer, or we was cut in half ala Teledji Adeleji probably by Zenos but that didn't kill him.

As for deaths, if this game is going to take inspiration from FF4 then I expect some fakeout deaths from the Scions only to be reunited with them later on.

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Originally Posted by myahele

In one scene we see Fandaniel on the moon without his legs. Either it was some weird bug that the devs overlooked when making the trailer, or we was cut in half ala Teledji Adeleji probably by Zenos but that didn't kill him.

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Uhhhhh

https://i.imgur.com/JK85t02.jpg

His legs are there unless it’s another part you’re talking about.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Perhaps it will end like it started...we're brought back somehow, but nobody remembers what The Warrior of Light looks like. They know of our personal accomplishments in Ishgard (we're still too attached to it) and Bozja (we were just another soldier), but nobody remembers us being a primal slayer, or the adventures. Until the ending cutscene after the credits, where we get a single line that can be said while walking past the Scions, awakening their memory of us, while we continue walking, with our head turned and our finger in front of our mouth, as if to say "Keep it a secret." Cue the FF main theme.

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On that note, it would also probably be after a time skip. I'd imagine the only one capable of reviving us would be Hydaelyn if no one can remember. That way we are "relieved of our burdens. After suffering enough."

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Originally Posted by Tsiron

Game of Thrones has really done a number on how people engage with fiction huh...

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Game of Bores is not the first fiction ever to kill main characters. If we gonna talk medieval mainstream fiction, Lord of the Rings did it first. If we gonna talk magic mainstream fiction, Harry Potter did it first.

Game of Bores wasn't even able to keep to it's premise. By the end of it everyone had plot armor and could do cartwheel teleportation behind enemy bosses.

Also, people should read/watch better fiction.

I feel like the WoL should have a death flag. And, if this was a single player game, I'd be almost certain of it. But since its a game that will certainly have more sequels/expacs with our characters as MC still, I don't know how they could pull it off. But I still get the feeling. So, I think possibly we may temporarily die. Like in a cutscene, then we play as our party members for a bit in instances, then the WoL gets rezzed.

That still counts as "departing the mortal realm", right? lol

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Originally Posted by Alleluia

I feel like the WoL should have a death flag. And, if this was a single player game, I'd be almost certain of it. But since its a game that will certainly have more sequels/expacs with our characters as MC still, I don't know how they could pull it off. But I still get the feeling. So, I think possibly we may temporarily die. Like in a cutscene, then we play as our party members for a bit in instances, then the WoL gets rezzed.

That still counts as "departing the mortal realm", right? lol

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..........

Maybe the seen in the launch trailer with the WoL slumped on the throne is our corpse, with Zenos watching over us waiting for us to come back to life.

Zenos very clearly does not want us to die before he's had his fun with us judging from his reaction to Fandaniel siccing Lunar Bahamut on us and so I'd be more inclined to think he'd actively take steps towards our preservation if he thinks it's warranted (And he already kind of did by killing Varis to ensure Black Rose would never be deployed) and won't actually fight us until he feels the circumstances are just right.

I'd assume something goes awry after the fight with Anima and he opts to simply leave us for the Scions to retrieve after some monologuing because we're not exactly in the shape to give him the fight of his life.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

Zenos very clearly does not want us to die before he's had his fun with us judging from his reaction to Fandaniel siccing Lunar Bahamut on us and so I'd be more inclined to think he'd actively take steps towards our preservation if he thinks it's warranted (And he already kind of did by killing Varis to ensure Black Rose would never be deployed) and won't actually fight us until he feels the circumstances are just right.

I'd assume something goes awry after the fight with Anima and he opts to simply leave us for the Scions to retrieve after some monologuing because we're not exactly in the shape to give him the fight of his life.

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yeah but if we had died (even temporarily) he would want to keep our body safe

or maybe some callback to FFIX

We are quite possibly literally going to Hell in the raids.
The real question is: "Who's coming BACK"?

I think that's simple enough. Whichever twin survives is going to job change to Reaper to bring back their undead sibling as a voidsent Avatar. The job is practically designed for a tag team.

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Originally Posted by Alleluia

I feel like the WoL should have a death flag. And, if this was a single player game, I'd be almost certain of it. But since its a game that will certainly have more sequels/expacs with our characters as MC still, I don't know how they could pull it off. But I still get the feeling. So, I think possibly we may temporarily die. Like in a cutscene, then we play as our party members for a bit in instances, then the WoL gets rezzed.

That still counts as "departing the mortal realm", right? lol

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I still think that's going to be how the game ends. Us dying after the final battle, ending cutscenes and credits playing. The cutscene after has us pulled out of the Lifestream somehow and back into the mortal realm, without the Blessing of Light and possibly without Ardbert's soul (since it could be removed and thrown back into the First's reincarnation cycle).

Hydaelyn and Zodiark both die, and we lose the echo.

Except the Echo has nothing to do with either of them, what the WoL will (most likely) lose is the Blessing of Light

The WoL dies, and then we play its avatar, summoned by Hydaelyn inhabitants.

Then the WoL's soul and the avatar rejoin later, maybe at the end of one of the raid.

... and 4193 other cheap tricks for ridiculous plot twists.

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Originally Posted by Jennah

We are quite possibly literally going to Hell in the raids.
The real question is: "Who's coming BACK"?

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Here's the hurdle to that: We already had that storyline, in the Palace of the Dead (I released a video about it yesterday).

So then you've got the question: do we allow overlap?
If so: who is the overlap?