Suggestion [remove Aether Currents as a catch up mechanic]

I personally thought it was fun to explore the map and attune to aether currents. I'm looking forward to that in EW actually.

I also enjoyed the Aether Current hunt as I went through the MSQ. If anything, I think more games should consider adopting a similar model to unlock flying. The mix of exploration and questing requirements felt just right in my opinion and the exploration nodes were easy enough to find without hassle (save for that one in The Loch at the end of Stormblood x.x)

If I don't feel like getting AC then I just ask a friend to cart me around the area. Otherwise I just use the compass. Most of the time the currents are on path with whatever story is taking place in the zone, as are the side quest ones. Ultimately though this just kinda sounds like the "we need more catch up mechanics" stuff that has been going around lately. If you want to skip then skip. But please don't ask for the primary focus of the game (story and exploration) to be made worse because of it.

Personally I'd prefer it be 20 or so exploration ones only. Then you have the option of unlocking it whenever you like.

There's really nothing wrong with the system as it is. After you've done them in HW you know how they work. There is no reason for the final msq one to not the be final one you get for a zone. It's all extra exp and gil.

Aether current gathering should be a current expansion deal, imo. I'd like to see them unlocked via MSQ completion for old content in the future, as they currently work for ARR flying.

It's the primary thing discouraging me from making a second character, i don't want to deal with gathering all the currents again.

This expansion in particular, it took a while for me to work up the will to go and get them done. Especially tempest, who cares about tempest.

Anything to make doing the massive catch up MSQ grind more bearable.

To counter the exploration argument, if there is a need for such a massive QoL to encourage exploration, then the zone isn't interesting in the first place.

Compared to how it is in WoW, FFXIVs actually feels humane process

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Originally Posted by ZedxKayn

Anything to make doing the massive catch up MSQ grind more bearable.

To counter the exploration argument, if there is a need for such a massive QoL to encourage exploration, then the zone isn't interesting in the first place.

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Tbh, a lot of people think it's some massive grind... when it really isn't.

Had this happen with an FC mate and working through the GC ranks AFTER they were capped with seals at one of the earlier ones. Gave them a link to the hunt logs "please do those" and helped them by funneling gear to turn into seals through a couple of instances while also using my level 80 to blow up others... and in like an hour or two they were already at 2nd Lt with the hunts unlocked (which is what we were after). I then got to go help track down and encourage them to murder their first B rank =D

Part of the problem is that the players that have been traumatized by WoW are expecting massive grinds for key system unlocks... when the reality is the only real massive grind in FFXIV are the relic weapons. Just use Google for a guide to the aetherpoints, and you'll have it in like an afternoon for an entire expansion, if not several. Flight points are easy enough to get, especially if you are doing all the blue quests in an area.

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Originally Posted by Almagnus1

Tbh, a lot of people think it's some massive grind... when it really isn't.

Part of the problem is that the players that have been traumatized by WoW are expecting massive grinds for key system unlocks... when the reality is the only real massive grind in FFXIV are the relic weapons. Just use Google for a guide to the aetherpoints, and you'll have it in like an afternoon for an entire expansion, if not several. Flight points are easy enough to get, especially if you are doing all the blue quests in an area.

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yeah, I dont get where the "massive grind" mindset comes from in FFXIV. Like, have you actually played anything else?
WoW is a job, plain and simple, you miss a day, you are behind. you are expected to grind for everything...period.

in FFXIV all they want you to do.. is play lol

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

yeah, I dont get where the "massive grind" mindset comes from in FFXIV. Like, have you actually played anything else?
WoW is a job, plain and simple, you miss a day, you are behind. you are expected to grind for everything...period.

in FFXIV all they want you to do.. is play lol

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have YOU ever played anything else? how is 200hrs+ of cutscenes to reach endgame NOT a massive grind?

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Originally Posted by ZedxKayn

have YOU ever played anything else? how is 200hrs+ of cutscenes to reach endgame NOT a massive grind?

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You could see 200+ hours of story content as a good thing or a bad thing tbh, depending on your point of view.

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Originally Posted by ZedxKayn

have YOU ever played anything else? how is 200hrs+ of cutscenes to reach endgame NOT a massive grind?

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I have: WoW, LOTRO, and ESO, all for years. Compared to those when each expansion was current content, ie TBC's original release, very little in FFXIV is an actual grind. I remember doing the dailies in TBC to get the drake mount and unlock flying; it was a nightmare. Getting Aether Currents in this game is MUUUUUCH easier. A similar thing can be said about the soul crystals/shards/whatever they are that require exploration in ESO; there are more of them per zone, many of which aren't anywhere near a quest path. You've got to go way out of your way to get them all and there's no device like an Aether Compass to help you find them.

Yes, the cutscenes in FFXIV are daunting when returning after years of being gone or just starting out now. I've been there, experienced that. If someone is primarily interested in getting to end game ASAP, there's the option to skip most, if not all, of them. Sitting through all 200 hours is personal choice, just like grinding anything else with significant requirements in an MMO.

All in all, while Aether Currents are an inconvenience, they're minor compared to many other things in different MMOs out there these days. The above posters are right, if you snag AC while doing the MSQ chain, you should get most of them by the time you're out of the zone. If not, a quick internet search and a few short side quests should net the rest.

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Originally Posted by ZedxKayn

have YOU ever played anything else? how is 200hrs+ of cutscenes to reach endgame NOT a massive grind?

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Then don't watch them all?
The majority can be skipped...and no, cutscenes are not a grind.

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Originally Posted by ZedxKayn

have YOU ever played anything else? how is 200hrs+ of cutscenes to reach endgame NOT a massive grind?

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I have actually, quite a few other things to be honest. This is a, and this may be a shock to you, a heavily story based mmo. so, they tell a story, while its recommended you watch, you are not forced to in anything except MSQ castrum and Praetorium. thats it, no where else are you forced to watch them.

so, if you find those grindy, thats kind of your own personal choice there friend....

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Originally Posted by ZedxKayn

have YOU ever played anything else? how is 200hrs+ of cutscenes to reach endgame NOT a massive grind?

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I don’t mean this in any negative tone in my post i am simply saying is all..

Grinding in mmos is where you kill monsters simply for the sake of obtaining exp from them. Back in the old days of mmos (did it a couple times) sometimes you would run in to a situation where you can not at all progress and get more quests or any more content until you reached a certain level. The only way you could obtain thoes levels were to just kill mobs, and keep killing till you leveled up enough to get your next quest... it was called grinding cause you had to “put your nose to the grindstone” and “work” killing sometimes hours and hours on end. I think i recall talking to someone who claimed to have done nothing but kill random packs of mobs for a couple days.. THAT is grinding lol.

I hardly watch all cut scenes some are unnecessary and relatively predictable so skimming text quickly and jumping out is something i do often.. should look in to how to skim read effective.. it helps kick up the pace..

That said i am not for or against the idea of removing the currents , if it happens it happens if not.. well it doesn’t. I already explore all over the place (sometimes getting myself in trouble lol) so it does not bother me too much.

Just gonna throw my two cents in here but I do agree that aether currents should probably be removed. They weren't/aren't fun, and not every player has the foresight to do them in tandem with MSQ progression. More importantly, unlike other major barriers like MSQ and leveling, they will always be a barrier to new players because they aren't covered by story skips on the mogstation.

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Originally Posted by AusarViled

As title suggests, the aether currents where added with heavensward as a way to slow down the player to force them to quest at slower pace to allow SE to make more content. This is fine while the content is new, but the moment the expansion ends it is simply a barrier to entry.

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Say what? This is crazed conspiracy theory nonsense. They aren't there to slow you down. They're there as part of world building.

As long as you're picking up aether currents as you do the MSQ, it's not adding significant amounts of time (The Lochs would be an exception - the aether current placement is terrible compared to what little MSQ takes place there). It adds maybe 2 hours to the amount of time needed to complete an expansion's main MSQ. Let's say I pad that to 10 hours for all expansions combined - that's still only a 5 % increase to the amount of time it takes to complete the MSQ to 5.55.

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Originally Posted by AusarViled

As a new payer to FF14, with nearly 45K hours in video games [50% of that is in MMOs], I have rarely seen a game that implements such a mechanic as to purposefully CRIPPLE the player. ARR is already a long and boring slog. Few players already survive the horrible ARR, Even I, a player of WoW who is used to rep grinding found ARR and currents tedious to where I almost quit.

- You are at a moment where many WoW players are moving to your game, you should Capitalize on this momentum by increasing accessibility not decreasing it.

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How ironic you bring up WoW when Pathfinder was far more intrusive and crippling to players than the Aether Current system is. Pathfinder was one of the bigger reasons I quit WoW.

I've got zero problem with the Aether Current system here because for the most part it's well planned out to flow with MSQ progression (again, The Lochs is a big exception).

There is no Aether Current system in ARR. Why are you implying it's part of what made ARR so tedious to you?

Sorry, I just can't agree with you that it is a problem. But if it makes you feel better, YoshiP already announced they're going to review the Aether Current system after Endwalker launches to see if improvements can be made to it in some of the older zones (again, hopefully The Lochs).

I actually had fun exploring and looking for the currents on the map. I didn't mind the sidequests either. I remember feeling excited when I checked a quest and saw it had a current to offer me.

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Originally Posted by SeverianLyonesse

Just gonna throw my two cents in here but I do agree that aether currents should probably be removed. They weren't/aren't fun, and not every player has the foresight to do them in tandem with MSQ progression. More importantly, unlike other major barriers like MSQ and leveling, they will always be a barrier to new players because they aren't covered by story skips on the mogstation.

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perhaps you prefer the system in WoW?

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Originally Posted by ZedxKayn

have YOU ever played anything else? how is 200hrs+ of cutscenes to reach endgame NOT a massive grind?

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Ummm... 200 hours + of cutscenes is what most of us play this game for. And most of us reach this 'endgame' you mention when we hit level 15, or thereabouts, and unlock the glamour system.

If you don't care for cutscenes, this game is always going to be a disappointment. The story is the point of FFXIV

I personally don't see the need for aether currents at all to be honest. The MSQ is more than capable of exploring all the zones. If we unlocked flying by default after completing the x.0 story I wouldn't exactly complain.

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

perhaps you prefer the system in WoW?

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While I personally liked Pathfinder in WoW (cause of the account wide trade off for flying afterwards) you still a gated by when THEY say you can fly (usually at least a year after launch). Here, you play the game, get the currents, and have flying (usually when done with zone story) but it's already there for the hunts, fates, and btribe quests.

I prefer our system over wow's as well.

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Originally Posted by Seera1024

I haven't found any huge reason to have flying on the maps once the MSQ takes you away from them.

I have them on my main and I've got an alt that's only gotten a few of them and I've not been terribly inconvenienced by not having flying unlocked on those maps. And my alt has completed all currently released MSQ and is waiting for Endwalker to release.

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Mostly it's useful if you're a crafter/gatherer and want to be able to gather materials for crafting gear and such (witness zipping around to gather things to make Exarchic gear for your alt jobs or whatever), or if you run treasure maps with any sort of regularity. Having flight for those is useful (in the case of the maps) or even necessary (in the case of gathering, as some gathering nodes cannot be reached without flight).

Just think, you only have to do them all once. Unless you have a bunch of alts.

Unlocking flying could be much MUCH worse if one looks at... ehem; another example of it.

The only field aether current I really hate going for is one in the Lochs that requires going halfway across the zone, through the crypts, across another plateau, and then jumping across a wall to reach it. That one can go straight to the lowest of the nine hells.

I don't mind the current system (as has been mentioned before, there are much worse alternatives), but I wouldn't object to seeing the field aether currents reduced or removed for past expansions. The quest currents work well enough as a broken bridge to keep people from going to the wrong parts of zones too early where that's important (the Sea of Clouds, Azys Lla, the Fringes, the Peaks, Ahm Areng, and Kholusia).

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Originally Posted by AusarViled

the aether currents where added with heavensward as a way to slow down the player to force them to quest at slower pace

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HOW is that even possible with portals everywhere?
It takes more time TO TALK WITH NPC and read dialogue/watch some non voiced cutscene then actually travelling or even doing combat in quest .

#limit flying. with portals everywehre it is joke lol.

Another option is to make friends with someone that has a 2 person mount. Find them a list of where all the exploration currents are. Get flown to all of them. Done in nothing flat.

Me I actually LIKE hunting down the aether currents and really would not like to see it changed. Its one of the things I look forward to when questing in a new zone. Keeping my eyes open for the currents as I quest through and then going back to find the ones I missed has become a game in itself for me. Can I do this zone without missing any?

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

The mechanic is just fine the way it is. I don't support their removal or making them any easier than they are already.

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I agree with LaylaTsarra 100%; as a relatively new player myself, I found my experience with collecting Aether Currents to be a pleasant addition to the entire questing/exploration process and haven't had literally any issues with it at all during the entire time I've spent leveling and making my way to current content.

If anything, I actually really like how it's been implemented:
- The environments are absolutely gorgeous, so have an additional excuse to explore is all kinds of awesome
- Collecting them is SUPER easy via using the Compass while playing through the story
- It's incredibly satisfying hitting that point where you know you're wrapping up an area and get that unlock notification, which subsequently leads to Flying which is all kinds of awesome

So yeah, not only do I hope that it stays the way it is, I hope it continues the way it is.

I too came from WoW and found that system incredibly dis-satisfying in contrast, considering how initially it was just a purchase, then given, THEN required jumping through all kinds of hoops, then more hoops, then wound up just being given whenever the Devs got tired of yanking the players around.

Aether Currents are awesome and I hope they stay as they are.

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Originally Posted by SeverianLyonesse

Just gonna throw my two cents in here but I do agree that aether currents should probably be removed. They weren't/aren't fun, and not every player has the foresight to do them in tandem with MSQ progression. More importantly, unlike other major barriers like MSQ and leveling, they will always be a barrier to new players because they aren't covered by story skips on the mogstation.

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They actually are included in story skips.

And I don't think they're much of a chore anyway. I'd sooner see them removed from sidequests than the overworld.

- regarding path finding in WoW, it’s not intrusive. Mounts in WoW are much faster then the mounts in FF14. Here the mounts in new areas are almost same speed as sprinting, which makes them virtually useless. This psychological harms the player every time, because the moment you gain a mount speed increase, your gone from zone in ff14 and back to snails pace.

Likewise, paths are always in useful spots, in FF14, they never are. What is the point of a porter when it’s 20 feet from the crystal that I can teleport too? In FF14 they are always a hinderance as they are not where I need them.

By the time you unlock flight through in the region, it’s over, if the side quests where unlocked the moment one entered the maps, and the msq one was very early into the map, then it would be useful. This system punishes you for trying, and punishes you if you don’t. The result is burn out.

- mounts / flight cost a lot in WoW… not true. Even in cata you could go to goldshire inn, and role play for like a day and get enough gold to fly, it really was a not issue. Once you unlocked, it would last you for the entire expansion, not 1 hour while your getting burdened psychologically by moving at -300%. [feels]

Flight in WoW, was also rewarding. I greatly prefer the divide of land/ flight mounts, and find it weird and awkward how it is in FF14. The larger mounts make you feel like your moving at -1000% speed. [eg: Behumut].


TLDR

No WoW did not burden you the player more, it felt a lot less annoying to deal with.

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Originally Posted by AusarViled

This psychological harms the player every time

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Could you be any more overdramatic about this?

Sure it's a bit disappointing and frustrating to be back down to the slow speed, but calling it "psychological harm" both overplays the severity of it and underplays the severity of actual psychological harm.

Slow mounts are tedium, not suffering.

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Originally Posted by AusarViled

- regarding path finding in WoW, it’s not intrusive. Mounts in WoW are much faster then the mounts in FF14. Here the mounts in new areas are almost same speed as sprinting, which makes them virtually useless. This psychological harms the player every time, because the moment you gain a mount speed increase, your gone from zone in ff14 and back to snails pace.

Likewise, paths are always in useful spots, in FF14, they never are. What is the point of a porter when it’s 20 feet from the crystal that I can teleport too? In FF14 they are always a hinderance as they are not where I need them.

By the time you unlock flight through in the region, it’s over, if the side quests where unlocked the moment one entered the maps, and the msq one was very early into the map, then it would be useful. This system punishes you for trying, and punishes you if you don’t. The result is burn out.

- mounts / flight cost a lot in WoW… not true. Even in cata you could go to goldshire inn, and role play for like a day and get enough gold to fly, it really was a not issue. Once you unlocked, it would last you for the entire expansion, not 1 hour while your getting burdened psychologically by moving at -300%. [feels]

Flight in WoW, was also rewarding. I greatly prefer the divide of land/ flight mounts, and find it weird and awkward how it is in FF14. The larger mounts make you feel like your moving at -1000% speed. [eg: Behumut].


TLDR

No WoW did not burden you the player more, it felt a lot less annoying to deal with.

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um... pathfinding in WoW was "not...intrusive"?

Pathfinder 1... (first of two) BfA
10 reps to revered.
100 world quests
Fully explore 6 zones
complete 100 world quests
complete a war campaign
fully complete zone questline

PathFinder part 2 (BfA)
3 more revered reps
fully explore 2 zones

they expected an average player to complete in 4 to 5 weeks.
(reality was since you were also trying to increase your overall power, usually took longer)

I am not really sure how you think that was easier and "better" than FFxiv.

I wonder if you even played WoW based on what you wrote. as for "roleplaying in Goldshire" thats a laugh and a half. not everyone wants to make their gold erping in an online game.

as for lasting an "entire expansion" thats false. Pathfinder 2 was NEVER released until about 1/2 of the way through the expansion. half the time you never completed the zone questline until you were max level. in BfA pathfinder 1 was available on release, it was added in patch 8.01 (july 2018) and pathfinder 2 in patch 8.2 (june 2019).

in FFxiv, you can fly in the zone with the AC all unlocked. technically you can unlock them all day 1 if you no lifed it.

not sure what WoW you played, but certainly wasnt the same one I spent over a decade part of.

I don't really see much point in an adjustment. When they first came out in HW and they were way off the beaten path, I understood the feedback about that. But they almost universally follow the path the MSQ takes you on now with just one or two small deviations and a handful of blue quests. It also doesn't cripple you to move around a zone on foot. The paths are clearly laid out and take very little time to traverse on a mount and then there are multiple port spots for zones. It's all very convenient.

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Originally Posted by AusarViled

- regarding path finding in WoW, it’s not intrusive. Mounts in WoW are much faster then the mounts in FF14. Here the mounts in new areas are almost same speed as sprinting, which makes them virtually useless. This psychological harms the player every time, because the moment you gain a mount speed increase, your gone from zone in ff14 and back to snails pace.

Likewise, paths are always in useful spots, in FF14, they never are. What is the point of a porter when it’s 20 feet from the crystal that I can teleport too? In FF14 they are always a hinderance as they are not where I need them.

By the time you unlock flight through in the region, it’s over, if the side quests where unlocked the moment one entered the maps, and the msq one was very early into the map, then it would be useful. This system punishes you for trying, and punishes you if you don’t. The result is burn out.

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Having unlocked everything as it came out... it's not that big of an issue, especially if you can take time to learn to use the aether compass. Be thankful the flight point unlocks aren't at the end of massive quest chains like they were in Heavensward.

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Originally Posted by AusarViled

- mounts / flight cost a lot in WoW… not true. Even in cata you could go to goldshire inn, and role play for like a day and get enough gold to fly, it really was a not issue. Once you unlocked, it would last you for the entire expansion, not 1 hour while your getting burdened psychologically by moving at -300%. [feels]

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Again, it's not this massive grind, you're just mad because you can't ERP your way to a mount.

It takes FAR less time for me to complete the MSQ in a zone and (assuming we're not looking at a zone we come back to later on), do the quests for the flight points and find the aether currents.

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Originally Posted by AusarViled

Flight in WoW, was also rewarding. I greatly prefer the divide of land/ flight mounts, and find it weird and awkward how it is in FF14. The larger mounts make you feel like your moving at -1000% speed. [eg: Behumut].

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In WoW, you've got to grind for EVERYTHING. There's a lot of design decisions for WoW that should... **gasp** STAY IN WOW.

Don't advocate for bringing WoW to FFXIV as WoW is so thoroughly screwed up that we've gotten a huge population surge because the current state of WoW is objectively a bad game ran by an even worse company. Very few of the retail design decisions should be brought into FFXIV because most of those systems are basically crimes against humanity.

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Originally Posted by AusarViled

TLDR

No WoW did not burden you the player more, it felt a lot less annoying to deal with.

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If that's true, why did the WoW subscriber count crater?

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

perhaps you prefer the system in WoW?

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Seems like a false equivalence. I've never played WoW. But from what little I know about it, yeah they open up flight to everyone after a certain period of time and don't require weird search-and-find questing or limit new player mobility through swathes of content as much as FF (again, I could be wrong, never played it).

Not sure why you would presume I play or prefer WoW, though. Some of us come from having played no MMOs at all and are just trying to make the game more accessible for our other non-MMO playing friends who shouldn't need to wade through nine years of content to play with us.

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Originally Posted by SeverianLyonesse

Seems like a false equivalence. I've never played WoW. But from what little I know about it, yeah they open up flight to everyone after a certain period of time and don't require weird search-and-find questing or limit new player mobility through swathes of content as much as FF (again, I could be wrong, never played it).

Not sure why you would presume I play or prefer WoW, though. Some of us come from having played no MMOs at all and are just trying to make the game more accessible for our other non-MMO playing friends who shouldn't need to wade through nine years of content to play with us.

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my apologies, I assumed you had some mmo experience, and WoW is a common one for many to have tried

they open up flight to everyone, sure... at max level.. after a huge grind. and thats for everyone... new.. old.. returned... everyone.

I only suggested WoW as well because it is a comparable mmo where you have to do something to gain flight. there however, its a LOT different than here. here is a breeze.


however, I doubt my words will have any effect since you and your friends would just prefer to be max level and not go through 9 years of content to get there. completely understandable in a way I guess.

OH they are? Nevermind then. We coo.

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Originally Posted by AusarViled

Flight in WoW, was also rewarding. I greatly prefer the divide of land/ flight mounts, and find it weird and awkward how it is in FF14. The larger mounts make you feel like your moving at -1000% speed. [eg: Behumut].

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We used to have terrestrial and flying mounts. You can still see the divide in the descriptions. But the devs listened to feedback about how this was silly and limiting when we had to swap from our favorite mounts to fly so they made everything able to fly.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

We used to have terrestrial and flying mounts. You can still see the divide in the descriptions. But the devs listened to feedback about how this was silly and limiting when we had to swap from our favorite mounts to fly so they made everything able to fly.

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And the kicker with flight speed: It's always at max, and never drops like land speed does. You need to unlock that to being faster.

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

however, I doubt my words will have any effect since you and your friends would just prefer to be max level and not go through 9 years of content to get there. completely understandable in a way I guess.

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Lol. I *did* wade through nine years of content. It was mostly enjoyable--for me. But I also recognize that several of my friends simply do not have the patience to push past as much mandatory content as FF XIV has just to enjoy playing the game with me.

I don't think it is controversial at all to observe that, unlike other MMOs, FF is unusual in how much it requires players to grind through story just to unlock content. And I don't think it's unreasonable that some players don't want to have to play for 200-300 hours just to be able to participate at the current tier.