Bug Report: Construct 7 mechanic is wrong

"A prime number (or a prime) is a natural number greater than 1 that is not a product of two smaller natural numbers."

Mind the greater than 1 part.

Maybe it's just the skill name that's a little weird, but that doesn't make it a bug at all. (In German, it's working as intended bc it literally tells you to go for a Prime Number.)

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

Going by what's usually touted as a prime number (divisible only by itself and 1), I feel like it should be; that or the commonly touted "rule" should be revised.
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1 isn't a prime number because its not considered to be a number at all. its considered to be "The Quantifier" or "The unit" around which all numbers or "integers" are based.

It's the same rule that means 1 is not a triangular number or a square number or any other type of number. Because 1 is "the unit".

Without 1 for example. 2, 3, 7, a million. All become unquantifiable.

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Originally Posted by Venandi

https://i.ibb.co/SfKgZWx/aegxzne.jpg

Oh my god, forty-twelve is not a number. This is the caliber of people thinking 1 is not indivisible.

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Guys, they outed themselves as a troll right here.

Math's boring. Can we go back arguing if November is Fall or Winter?

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Originally Posted by Venandi

Go pet your cat and snark me because you lost the debate.

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Guess we can add math to the list of things your mind just can't comprehend

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Originally Posted by Pepsi_Plunge

Math's boring. Can we go back arguing if November is Fall or Winter?

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With Endwalker we're gonna argue about how the Earth is flat probably, so a little patience on the way lol

Was going to say the note before the boss list prime numbers and 1 is not on it.

Ahh, FFXIV forums how somethings just never change.

Not a bug. Part of the definition of prime numbers that gets left out is that they need to be greater than 1. So 1 itself is not a prime number. When prime numbers were conceived, it wasn't really considered a number, since it's a building block of other numbers.

So according to OP, November is not fall and 1 is a prime number. Those are physics and math.
I wonder if OP's next threads will be something related to chemistry and biology.

Looking forward to your next alt science thread, OP!

Oh America... where we're bad at math, science, and don't understand other languages....

You're making us all look bad here.

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Originally Posted by Fland

I wonder if OP's next threads will be something related to chemistry and biology.

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"Dogs don't bark. They make dolphin noises instead. Zomg stop bullying me guys!"

-The next thread, probably.


...And now the mental image of a dog making dolphin noises is making me chuckle to myself. What have I done?

You cannot divide by Zero either. Try that and see if it throws an arithmetic exception. You should be able to complete the mechanic

"Crude Scrawling at X:10.5, Y:13.8: A wise artithmetican once said the primes were the most lonesome of numbers. To that I say bollocks! 2, 3, 5, 7, 11, 13, 17, 19, 23, 31 ... and so on to eternity. There are enough digits here to start a fellowship!"


It literally tells you in the dungeon which numbers count.

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Originally Posted by Ilenya

"Crude Scrawling at X:10.5, Y:13.8: A wise artithmetican once said the primes were the most lonesome of numbers. To that I say bollocks! 2, 3, 5, 7, 11, 13, 17, 19, 23, 31 ... and so on to eternity. There are enough digits here to start a fellowship!"


It literally tells you in the dungeon which numbers count.

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Unfortunately, it's hard enough to assume people would read what the boss is casting or what their HP says, let alone reading notes on the way.
Even as first timer you are discouraged to stop and reading things because hurr durr gotta pull.

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Originally Posted by Ceridwenae

It's not out of the realms of possibility that OP lives in the northernmost parts of Sweden and thus views a longer winter as beginning earlier that other places might expect to see. It's a legitimate cultural difference, likely based on a hyper-local experience. Keep using it against OP and it's more than ugly. So, don't.

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It's kind of you to be understanding... but also the OP is playing on a North American server, so unlikely that they're in Sweden. Also they use math rather than maths in their grammar, so more evidence they live in the US or Canada.

Also this user has a history of creating posts that are intentionally inflammatory, which puts a lot of people automatically on guard.

The number one (1) is not a prime number.
Prime number definition:
A positive integer greater than one is called a prime number if its only two positive divisors (factors) are one and itself
For example, 5 is Prime, as its two positive divisors are the number one (one) and the number five (itself)

To further define, the positive divisors (factors) must be two numbers that are not the same, or the result in case of the claim that the 'number one is prime' would be the number one being the singular and only positive divisor, which then invalidates it as a prime.

I wonder when winter is in Ridorana..

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Originally Posted by Fland

Unfortunately, it's hard enough to assume people would read what the boss is casting or what their HP says, let alone reading notes on the way.
Even as first timer you are discouraged to stop and reading things because hurr durr gotta pull.

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People not reading it is one thing, but with the fight teleporting you into it if you wait too long, you have no one to blame but yourself for not reading things in this instance.

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Originally Posted by Ceridwenae

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I'm living in northern part of Sweden and brought up the point you mentions now, got shit for so not gonna try convince people lmao.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

To be honest, every single explanation of this that I've tried to read only managed to confuse me further. You know, like looking up a definition of a word in the dictionary only to find the definition itself uses 5 more words you don't understand, repeat ad nauseam.

Guess that pretty much explains why I ended up hating math starting from around high school even though prior to that it was my favorite school subject.

All in all, it sure would have helped me out if my teachers had mentioned the whole "number greater than 1" clause when defining a prime number, rather than only stating "number divisible by itself and 1" which I think is how a lot of quick&dirty/introductory explanations of prime numbers go, and is what leaves people to think 1 is a prime. There probably have been many people in this very game who got screwed by this mechanic because they legitimately thought 1 was a prime due to being given an incomplete (or just old, apparently) definition of primes.

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"A prime number is divisible by itself and 1" is the simplified version of "A prime number is a whole number with exactly two integral divisors". 1 doesn't have two integral divisors so it can't be a prime number.
Kids at schools are given simplified information because few want to actually learn anything, those who want to learn more usually ask questions and nothing prevents them from acquiring further information which brings clarification.

You can't really blame your teachers for not understanding if they gave you the simplified definition, I asked questions when I wasn't understanding something even if it sounded idiotic to my classmates who always got lower marks than me.

Considering their post count is 69 I highly doubt they'll ever post again. Shame, I thought I could laugh at someone today, but it turned out it was just cringe.

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Originally Posted by Ceridwenae

You mean you got it for saying winter is in November?

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Yep. In November we usually already have snow on ground and cold temperatures.

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Originally Posted by Lanadra

I wonder when winter is in Ridorana..

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A week from now. Unfortunately, due to the time bubble, it will always be a week from now.

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Originally Posted by Sotaris

Yep. In November we usually already have snow on ground and cold temperatures.

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This was something brought up in the other thread. Where I grew up you could get snow on the ground as early in the year as late August, but the thing is that doesn't mean it's "technically" winter. Like I wouldn't see something was coming out "Winter of 2021" and think it would be released in August. Sure the seasons are funky based on what latitude you live in (and it doesn't help that the dates were based around the weather in Italy) but there's a generally accepted consensus as to what date each season starts with winter not technically starting until December 22 despite most areas of the world who get snow having already had it for weeks by that point.

So I get the perception from environment that you could look out your door and see there's snow and it's cold outside, must be winter. But when you look at global announcements, that same time of year in another part of the globe might still just be cool weather with no snow like you'd get in autumn. Heck even Square conceded this with the announcement that they realize that some people would percieve this as winter as opposed to fall because of local weather patterns.

This is a good troll thread. I missed these.

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1 isn't a prime number because its not considered to be a number at all. its considered to be "The Quantifier" or "The unit" around which all numbers or "integers" are based.

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Yeah... no math class I had in grade school ever tried to teach us that 1 wasn't a number. (And if anything, 0 was what got treated as a outlier or "base"; kind of like the point that separated positive and negative numbers because 0 itself technically wasn't positive or negative. Anyone remember those number lines...?)

Granted, like I said I never was in any particular advanced college-level math class, so that could be why.

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"A prime number is divisible by itself and 1" is the simplified version of "A prime number is a whole number with exactly two integral divisors". 1 doesn't have two integral divisors so it can't be a prime number.

Kids at schools are given simplified information because few want to actually learn anything, those who want to learn more usually ask questions and nothing prevents them from acquiring further information which brings clarification.

You can't really blame your teachers for not understanding if they gave you the simplified definition, I asked questions when I wasn't understanding something even if it sounded idiotic to my classmates who always got lower marks than me.

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To me, those are two entirely different statements. "A prime number is divisible by itself and 1" would indicate that literally every number is a prime number. The latter statement would not.

To me, I saw the number 1, saw that it is potentially divisible by itself (1) and 1 (and no other numbers), and thus concluded that it should be a prime number based on the whole "only divisible by itself and 1" thing that I was consistently taught in my math classes. I didn't "not understand" anything, therefore I had no questions to ask. I never had any reason to question that knowledge until many years later, in FF12 playing a low level challenge, when I learned that being level 1 actually protected you from being hit by Zalera's Prime Level Death (indicating that 1 actually was NOT a prime number).

I (and the rest of my classes) was fed information that misled and didn't paint the whole picture, simple as that. So yes, I will blame my instructors for this one. Your attempted "well, the kids don't care about this stuff anyway, so why should I bother trying to teach them effectively" defense doesn't fly with me, sorry.

If a "simplified" definition leads to misunderstandings like mine, maybe it shouldn't be used in an educational setting.

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Originally Posted by wereotter

This was something brought up in the other thread. Where I grew up you could get snow on the ground as early in the year as late August, but the thing is that doesn't mean it's "technically" winter. Like I wouldn't see something was coming out "Winter of 2021" and think it would be released in August. Sure the seasons are funky based on what latitude you live in (and it doesn't help that the dates were based around the weather in Italy) but there's a generally accepted consensus as to what date each season starts with winter not technically starting until December 22 despite most areas of the world who get snow having already had it for weeks by that point.

So I get the perception from environment that you could look out your door and see there's snow and it's cold outside, must be winter. But when you look at global announcements, that same time of year in another part of the globe might still just be cool weather with no snow like you'd get in autumn. Heck even Square conceded this with the announcement that they realize that some people would percieve this as winter as opposed to fall because of local weather patterns.

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Yeah I get that, when I was commenting in that thread I was talking from my experience. I don't think of November being fall when I wake up for like 5-15cm of snow. But it's impossible for SE market team to comply to all local "seasons". And the technical definition if you google it it starts around xmas, though Sweden think differently (see post from Ceridwenae)

You brought up an example late august, there been years where we had snow in midsummer week (though many years ago now, 5-10 years now), which is in uhh 2-3 weeks from this post i believe.

Why the hell are we talking about when seasons are in Sweden or Italy or whatever? Who cares?

This is a Japanese game, made by a Japanese company. If they make a global announcement regarding a seasonal release, it should be automatically assumed that they're talking about seasons in Japan, unless otherwise stated.

Do you think the Australians saw the "fall" announcement and then were saying "hurr durr, but fall is already almost over this year, durr"?

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

Why the hell are we talking about when seasons are in Sweden or Italy or whatever? Who cares?

This is a Japanese game, made by a Japanese company. If they make a global announcement regarding a seasonal release, it should be automatically assumed that they're talking about seasons in Japan, unless otherwise stated.

Do you think the Australians saw the "fall" announcement and then were saying "hurr durr, but fall is already almost over this year, durr"?

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Ignore them. The trolls in this forum are bringing up November and fall in every thread I make to divert the topic for no reason.

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Originally Posted by Fland

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Originally Posted by Ilenya

"Crude Scrawling at X:10.5, Y:13.8: A wise artithmetican once said the primes were the most lonesome of numbers. To that I say bollocks! 2, 3, 5, 7, 11, 13, 17, 19, 23, 31 ... and so on to eternity. There are enough digits here to start a fellowship!"


It literally tells you in the dungeon which numbers count.

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Unfortunately, it's hard enough to assume people would read what the boss is casting or what their HP says, let alone reading notes on the way.
Even as first timer you are discouraged to stop and reading things because hurr durr gotta pull.

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This is manly the reason why i like to run new raids on patch day, then you'll be grouped up with others who are either, enjoying the view, read notes along the way, talk to each other and be more relaxed in general. Whenever i see a note, i just have to read it! If i'm pressed for time, i'll make a screenshot of it and read it later.

This partitular note can be found when you jump down from the big cogwheel and make your way up to Construct 7. It's located on one of the broken robots there.

https://i.imgur.com/w56uPHX.jpg

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

I (and the rest of my classes) was fed information that misled and didn't paint the whole picture, simple as that. So yes, I will blame my instructors for this one. Your attempted "well, the kids don't care about this stuff anyway, so why should I bother trying to teach them effectively" defense doesn't fly with me, sorry.

If a "simplified" definition leads to misunderstandings like mine, maybe it shouldn't be used in an educational setting.

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In case there has been some misunderstanding, I am not a teacher at schools. I just recently graduated from high school.

You've been given an explanation of a more complicated rule because, as you've stated previously, the more complicated rule confuses you even more. When someone is explaining something and you don't get it, you should ask questions. I am 99% sure your instructors have told you that 1 is not a prime number. Yet you didn't ask why. Because you couldn't be bothered. So you never learned it up until the point you played FF12.

Don't pretend to be a victim of some bad educational system. Everyone is, but some of us learn things.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

Why the hell are we talking about when seasons are in Sweden or Italy or whatever? Who cares?

This is a Japanese game, made by a Japanese company. If they make a global announcement regarding a seasonal release, it should be automatically assumed that they're talking about seasons in Japan, unless otherwise stated.

Do you think the Australians saw the "fall" announcement and then were saying "hurr durr, but fall is already almost over this year, durr"?

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If you don't care why are you replying. I was replying to quoted comments. Take a chillpill Karen.

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You've been given an explanation of a more complicated rule because, as you've stated previously, the more complicated rule confuses you even more.

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Simply adding the clause "a prime number cannot be 1 / must also be greater than 1" would not have been confusing, and would have resolved the entire issue.

The stuff that is confusing to me is stuff like the "fundamental theorem of arithmetic", which is apparently something advanced enough such that I never heard about it in grade school and only heard about in this thread. I don't know why this "rule" exists, nor do I care. Regardless, since it never came up when I learned about prime numbers, it doesn't do much to combat the (apparently erroneous) idea that 1 might be a prime number.

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When someone is explaining something and you don't get it, you should ask questions.

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Again, there wasn't anything I "didn't get". To me back then, 1 being a prime number was just something that made sense, so there was no question to ask.

You can't ask a question you never had in the first place.

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Don't pretend to be a victim of some bad educational system.

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Don't tell me what I can't do.

Many people would agree the US education system sucks, anyway. Don't act like it's immune to criticism.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

Simply adding the clause "a prime number cannot be 1 / must also be greater than 1" would not have been confusing, and would have resolved the entire issue.

The stuff that is confusing to me is stuff like the "fundamental theorem of arithmetic", which is apparently something advanced enough such that I never heard about it in grade school and only heard about in this thread. I don't know why this "rule" exists, nor do I care. Regardless, since it never came up when I learned about prime numbers, it doesn't do much to combat the (apparently erroneous) idea that 1 might be a prime number.

Again, there wasn't anything I "didn't get". To me back then, 1 being a prime number was just something that made sense, so there was no question to ask.

You can't ask a question you never had in the first place.

Don't tell me what I can't do.

Many people would agree the US education system sucks, anyway. Don't act like it's immune to criticism.

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It does suck so no point acting like you are a victim when the reality is everyone is a product of their own inability or ability either by choice or otheriwise.

In short those that care about their education are often proactive and inquisitive by nature.

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It does suck so no point acting like you are a victim when the reality is everyone is a product of their own inability either by choice or otheriwise.

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There is a point though; it makes me feel better to know that something I was wrong about wasn't my own fault.

I'm not sure what point there is to your line of thinking, though. Just because "everyone" has been a "victim" of something (citation needed, btw), there's suddenly "no point" in bringing up its flaws?

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In short those that care about their education are often proactive and inquisitive by nature.

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Again (...), it's hard to be "inquisitive" over a matter that inspired no questions. Are you telling me that if something makes perfect sense to you, you would still question it? I'm quite skeptical, if so.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

There is a point though; it makes me feel better to know that something I was wrong about wasn't my own fault.

I'm not sure what point there is to your line of thinking, though. Just because "everyone" has been a "victim" of something (citation needed, btw), there's suddenly "no point" in bringing up its flaws?

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You said many would feel the US school system sucks and I am inclined to agree. It is flawed and it does have room to improve but the point is if people know something sucks generally complaining or acting like a victim is senseless behavior to me. It does not solve anything meaningful expect to make one feel better about themselves. Though the reality is if people know something sucks and are forced to partake in it they should make efforts to improve their situation in that moment not complain about it after the fact. Just screams playing the victim.

Also I said everyone is a product of their own ability to inability when it comes to education by choice or otherwise. The system is flawed but as an individual that is largely irrelevant we have to make due with what we got.

I say this as person who went to one of worst schools in NY. Got to make due.

OP, regardless of whether or not you think 1 should be a prime number or not, this isn't a bug.
This has been brought to the devs before and they said the content is working as intended and they've been clear they aren't changing it.

For better or worse the raid will remain the way it is.

Most mathematicians say (nowdays) that a primenumber is a number that can be only divided by two numbers that is 1 and itself. 1 can be only divided by 1 which leads to the fact that most mathematicians don't consider 1 as a prime anymore. Which is a good idea since the meaning of a prime is that it can only be divided by two numbers, 1 would be a irregularity in that matter which would undermine the meaning of prime numbers which is being only dividable through two numbers. So yes and no, many mathematicians considered 1 as a prime number. Most mathematicians nowdays consider 1 not as a prime number. And that is that.

To make it more clear again. 1 would be only dividable through 1. All other primes are dividable through two numbers which is one and itself. Cause of that definition 1 can't be a true prime since it's just dividable through a single number that is 1. It makes no sense to categorize numbers and then allow a irregular into it. That's why the view changed and 1 isn't considered as a primenumber anymore and that is also now shown in the game.

The one thing about old raids I still think ought to be changed are things like the stack markers on Xande in Syrcus (and other such examples like that, if there's any I've forgotten)

I do remember someone saying that Yoshi once called for a "unification" of sorts on the way enemy attack markers looked, such that things like stack mechanics would always be recognizable. And yet, they didn't go back to make that change to Xande's stack markers... meaning to this day, you still regularly see people running away with their markers and dying, probably largely due to them not even realizing it was a stack marker.