Please release 6.0 savage 1 week earlier than previous expansions

Oh right, I forgot it's the end of the world for a lot of people if they cannot clear the first week.

the moon is falling

For all those downplaying week 1 clears, try it one tier it just hits differently when you clear it.

It's not about the week 1 clear. For many players that first week of a new raid in itself is just the best time to raid. There are no guides, jumping in blind to something completely new while everyone else is blind too is great fun. There's that new raid hype and excitement. It's a short lived window and nice to enjoy it.

Sure you can try to stay blind over the coming weeks, but it's just different. You're trying to avoid youtube and discords and chats incase of any spoilers. Unless you have a static that all agree on staying completely blind, you'll either be expected to study mechs, or several people will know the mechs and that affects the experience.

I see no harm in delaying the release until after new years anyway. We don't need a Savage release on Christmas week. There's no benefit.

One week of normal might not be enough time for them to gather the data they need to make important job adjustments before savage. The fights themselves may not even be fully tuned, finished and tested until just before they're released. There may also be people who weren't able to start Endwalker on launch (don't forget it launches the week of Thanksgiving in the US) or who haven't had time to level up and finish the story yet, let alone clear and farm four normal raids and two extreme trials for gear. A week can be very important to them. Savage isn't just for people who clear week one.

In fact, it might be the best time ever for new people to get into savage. Sure, hardcore prog groups might be disrupted but most people will have time off from work and studies and I hope they'll choose to use some of it to try savage for the first time. So please stop telling people their opinions don't matter - that's exactly the sort of thing that puts people off from raiding and makes them look at hardcore raiders like we're toxic scum who need to be chased away from the game. I want as many people as possible to try raiding and to enjoy it so that it gets more support in the future.

I don't think they have ever delayed a savage release due to holidays ever. I doubt they will start now. They don't even really pay attention to the community outside of Japan anyway.

Forum alts are not unheard of. Either way delaying it would not cause much issue to the raiders but sure it will negatively impact crafters in terms of profits but not like gil has much value in this game. I say this as a crafter I make a decent chunk of my profits during the week 1 rush without the rush I stand to make less that is true.

Still as a raider I rather a delay.

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Originally Posted by OneTrueMiqote

With the typical timeline, normal raids are released 2 weeks after the expansion, and the savage tier is released 2 weeks after normal raids. This means raid comes out December 21st and if you don't clear by Friday night then you're raiding for Christmas or risking not clearing week 1. Delaying savage by 1 week is also not a solution as it then collides with when JP players spend time with family. So either it is delayed even further, or released earlier. Between the 2 choices, I personally think 3 weeks after the expansion is enough time for the players who want to raid day 1 or week 1 to complete MSQ, while still giving enough time for the hardcore raiders to complete it before Christmas.

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You know you don't have to clear everything within the first week something comes out. Chill out and maybe for once ya'll wont complain about not having any content to do.

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Originally Posted by Awha

Forum alts are not unheard of. Either way delaying it would not cause much issue to the raiders but sure it will negatively impact crafters in terms of profits but not like gil has much value in this game. I say this as a crafter I make a decent chunk of my profits during the week 1 rush without the rush I stand to make less that is true.

Still as a raider I rather a delay.

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Honestly, for some crafters, it's less about the profitability of it, and really the opportunity to collaborate with other crafters to help reach a common goal of gearing a static so that they're able to progress a tier in a rapid period of time. Such things aren't expressly related to profits, but equally about sentimental value too. There's a lot of effort that goes into the endeavor, both leading up to, and during. Then for many afterward as well.

There's quite a significant amount of pressure that's exerted on folk that does this, which can make it quite the thrilling time and is not really otherwise something you can get going down on Expert Recipes. I remember several proposals popping here and there which I vehemently disapproved of, because having the set available beforehand negates the necessity of having people reliable enough to produce the gear within the first couple of hours. That is not to say the entire week isn't thrilling as it is, but it especially reigns true for the first few hours rush.

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Originally Posted by Kadhe

One week of normal might not be enough time for them to gather the data they need to make important job adjustments before savage. The fights themselves may not even be fully tuned, finished and tested until just before they're released. There may also be people who weren't able to start Endwalker on launch (don't forget it launches the week of Thanksgiving in the US) or who haven't had time to level up and finish the story yet, let alone clear and farm four normal raids and two extreme trials for gear. A week can be very important to them. Savage isn't just for people who clear week one.

In fact, it might be the best time ever for new people to get into savage. Sure, hardcore prog groups might be disrupted but most people will have time off from work and studies and I hope they'll choose to use some of it to try savage for the first time. So please stop telling people their opinions don't matter - that's exactly the sort of thing that puts people off from raiding and makes them look at hardcore raiders like we're toxic scum who need to be chased away from the game. I want as many people as possible to try raiding and to enjoy it so that it gets more support in the future.

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Savage is actually designed first and mechanics are peeled back or removed for the normal mode. There are no adjustments made to it based on any feedback. They simply hold it back two weeks to give players more team to complete the MSQ without feeling rushed.

As for fresh players getting into Savage. I'm sorry but they have literally the entire tier to work with since their goal isn't the challenge in and of itself but simply clearing at some point before the next tier. Meanwhile, the hardcore scene has been waiting over a year for any kind of content to their preference. So yeah, several of us are a little frustrated by once again getting shafted. Is it some world ending crisis? No. But it is annoying, and frankly, disrespectful from the dev team. They're purposely releasing it on The Christmas holidays because JP cares more about New Years. The far better solution so nobody is impacted would be delaying Savage until Jan 4th.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Savage is actually designed first and mechanics are peeled back or removed for the normal mode. There are no adjustments made to it based on any feedback. They simply hold it back two weeks to give players more team to complete the MSQ without feeling rushed.

As for fresh players getting into Savage. I'm sorry but they have literally the entire tier to work with since their goal isn't the challenge in and of itself but simply clearing at some point before the next tier. Meanwhile, the hardcore scene has been waiting over a year for any kind of content to their preference. So yeah, several of us are a little frustrated by once again getting shafted. Is it some world ending crisis? No. But it is annoying, and frankly, disrespectful from the dev team. They're purposely releasing it on The Christmas holidays because JP cares more about New Years. The far better solution so nobody is impacted would be delaying Savage until Jan 4th.

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Exactly! Despite me raising concerns about this, the Savage release date honestly doesn't affect me. I raid, but I'm not hardcore about it by any means.

But just because it doesn't affect me personally doesn't mean that I can't see how it affects people who are into this scene. This game caters to all other types of players; it would be nice of them to be considerate to the hardcore raiders as well. I 100% agree that Jan 4th would be the best release date for the next Savage tier.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Savage is actually designed first and mechanics are peeled back or removed for the normal mode. There are no adjustments made to it based on any feedback. They simply hold it back two weeks to give players more team to complete the MSQ without feeling rushed.

As for fresh players getting into Savage. I'm sorry but they have literally the entire tier to work with since their goal isn't the challenge in and of itself but simply clearing at some point before the next tier. Meanwhile, the hardcore scene has been waiting over a year for any kind of content to their preference. So yeah, several of us are a little frustrated by once again getting shafted. Is it some world ending crisis? No. But it is annoying, and frankly, disrespectful from the dev team. They're purposely releasing it on The Christmas holidays because JP cares more about New Years. The far better solution so nobody is impacted would be delaying Savage until Jan 4th.

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Hey, why are you saying that I am not doing savage for the challenge? I am a new raider and while it took me a while to get into raiding because most pf groups wanted 520 item level gear even for practice, I am still doing the content for the challenge. I don't like the echo, not only because it makes it easier but my real ranking is not affected by echo clears.

I can only guess why week 1 is important because I haven't played ffxiv long enough. Guides don't exist yet so clearing the raids then must be a lot more difficult thus making it a lot more exciting. And since getting stronger gear impacts your dps logs immensely, starting the book grind asap is a priority.

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Originally Posted by Sotaris

but why does it matter? If you worried about getting spoiled don't watch videos or read threads about it? I honestly will never understand this mindset.

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It's called gear, dunno if you realized that

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Originally Posted by Awha

Forum alts are not unheard of. Either way delaying it would not cause much issue to the raiders but sure it will negatively impact crafters in terms of profits but not like gil has much value in this game. I say this as a crafter I make a decent chunk of my profits during the week 1 rush without the rush I stand to make less that is true.

Still as a raider I rather a delay.

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Yeah OK, forum alts are sus when a certain individual (who is now banned) went around and looked up random forum users' logs and shamed them while bragging about clearing two ultimates, but when confronted was never able to provide their own logs and clears as evidence. V. A. .... If people want to debate "as someone who raids" and put down actual raiders' opinions they better have 99th percentile logs and on-patch Ultimate clears to back their concern trolling up.

Dec 21st sounds perfect. Just in time to separate the real hardcores.

Also can I just comment on the fact that literally no one in this thread has ever had a week 1 clear (other than OP and Luna) just going based off their public data? Just funny to me.

No matter when the raid is release there are always some players that would be inconvenienced.
SE has decided upon their schedule and there's little we can do about it.
You're free to complain of course, but it's better if you just try your best to adjust your schedule since it's still months away anyway.

I ask, what’s the rush?

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Originally Posted by Drakonic

Yeah OK, forum alts are sus when a certain individual (who is now banned) went around and looked up random forum users' logs and shamed them while bragging about clearing two ultimates, but when confronted was never able to provide their own logs and clears as evidence. V. A. .... If people want to debate "as someone who raids" and put down actual raiders' opinions they better have 99th percentile logs and on-patch Ultimate clears to back their concern trolling up.

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End of the day I am mean sure one can make a claim their opinion is invalid due to lack of personal experience but it is not like personal experience from the action is needed to make an argument against or for something. One can for gain personal experience through their own observations of a situation.

On either front personally I feel calling someone's opinion aa invalid is messed up but people are free to do what they please. I think it is proper to attack their arguments and nit their experience that is such a smooth brain tactic. :P

Not saying you are directly saying such a thing just how I feel about it.

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Originally Posted by Drakonic

It's called gear, dunno if you realized that

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I do, however potential missing out week 1 isn't a big deal (given you clear it before reset). You make it sound it's like life and death. I mean we not even getting ultimate this year.

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Originally Posted by Drakonic

Also can I just comment on the fact that literally no one in this thread has ever had a week 1 clear (other than OP and Luna) just going based off their public data? Just funny to me.

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Revel in the satisfaction you get knowing the toxic hardcore elitists are getting the finger from the devs once more.

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Originally Posted by Fland

No matter when the raid is release there are always some players that would be inconvenienced.
SE has decided upon their schedule and there's little we can do about it.
You're free to complain of course, but it's better if you just try your best to adjust your schedule since it's still months away anyway.

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Releasing it around xmas is more than just "some players" tbf. Can't exactly ask the family to celebrate Christmas another day so I can prog a tier.

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Originally Posted by ZedxKayn

Releasing it around xmas is more than just "some players" tbf. Can't exactly ask the family to celebrate Christmas another day so I can prog a tier.

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That just boils down to your own priorities.
Did they say a date for the release?

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Originally Posted by Roeshel

Hey, why are you saying that I am not doing savage for the challenge? I am a new raider and while it took me a while to get into raiding because most pf groups wanted 520 item level gear even for practice, I am still doing the content for the challenge. I don't like the echo, not only because it makes it easier but my real ranking is not affected by echo clears.

I can only guess why week 1 is important because I haven't played ffxiv long enough. Guides don't exist yet so clearing the raids then must be a lot more difficult thus making it a lot more exciting. And since getting stronger gear impacts your dps logs immensely, starting the book grind asap is a priority.

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"Challenge in and of itself."

This isn't to say you don't want to challenge yourself or improve as a player, however it isn't necessarily you're goal to tackle the content at its absolute peak. Week 1, and to a lesser extent, week 2, Savage is a unique experience for the reasons in your second paragraph. It's before any guides or videos have released, putting everyone on an evening playing field. And the fights are as difficult as they will possibly ever be without artificially gimping yourself. For example, E12S is impossible to clear without decent contribution from your healers and tanks. You simply won't come anywhere near the DPS check if everyone isn't playing at a reasonably high level. Even E11S required high healer DPS to beat his enrage. For healers, this is also arguably the most fun period of Savage because they actually have to focus on healing instead of being Glare bots.

At the end of the day, it isn't world ending but rather frustrating and disrespectful from the dev team. Hardcore players shouldn't have to choose between family stuff and raiding.

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Originally Posted by Sotaris

That just boils down to your own priorities.
Did they say a date for the release?

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Savage always releases one month following the expansion. Yoshida not only said they'll maintain the same schedule but specifically answered a Q&A asking whether Savage will release at the end of the year.

And it isn't just my priorities. If several people in your raid group can't make it, you either have to find another group, lose out on loot for the week or those players lose loot/pages due to everyone else clearing without them via subs. Basically, players are punished for wanting to raid week 1 because the dev team picked a stupid time to release Savage when delaying it until Jan 4th allows every region to enjoy the holidays.

A lot of people have time off during the holidays, so new content in that timeframe is actually ideal. This is only really an issue for people who travel during the holidays. So, week 1 competitive raiders who travel for Christmas; that's like what, 10 people? I don't see SE structuring their content release schedules specifically for you guys, sorry.

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Originally Posted by Drakonic

Also can I just comment on the fact that literally no one in this thread has ever had a week 1 clear (other than OP and Luna) just going based off their public data? Just funny to me.

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Uhh what difference does that make?

Week 1 clears are a team effort. Some people have teams that clear everything week 1, some people do not. That doesn't mean people who clear in subsequent weeks aren't raiding week 1, or day 1. They are, they simply don't clear everything in the first week.

So it literally doesn't matter.

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Originally Posted by Roeshel

Hey, why are you saying that I am not doing savage for the challenge? I am a new raider and while it took me a while to get into raiding because most pf groups wanted 520 item level gear even for practice, I am still doing the content for the challenge. I don't like the echo, not only because it makes it easier but my real ranking is not affected by echo clears.

I can only guess why week 1 is important because I haven't played ffxiv long enough. Guides don't exist yet so clearing the raids then must be a lot more difficult thus making it a lot more exciting. And since getting stronger gear impacts your dps logs immensely, starting the book grind asap is a priority.

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I wouldn't let it get to you. Some people have this really weird bias where everyone MUST try to clear everything *right away* or else they're bad and not serious and don't want challenge and blah de blah de blah.

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Originally Posted by Drakonic

Also can I just comment on the fact that literally no one in this thread has ever had a week 1 clear (other than OP and Luna) just going based off their public data? Just funny to me.

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<----- My name and world are right there, brother man.

I don't know whether finding a hardcore group next tier will be more difficult because there won't be enough of them around, or less difficult because the remaining ones will be desperate for members, but I'm not denying it's a big inconvenience for people who want to do hardcore prog.

That said, I think a release smack bang in the middle of the holidays will be good for the raiding scene overall, and frankly the long term growth and sustainability of our sub-community should be far more important to us than a week 1 adrenaline hit. Growing our numbers and making our preferred content more popular is how we stop getting the short end of the stick every time there's a development conflict.

Or, you know, we can keep telling less fervent raiders that their opinions don't matter. Personally I'd rather my identity as a "hardcore raider" doesn't end up meeting the same fate as the mentor crown and becoming synonymous with toxicity and exclusion, but hey, to each their own I guess.

Anyway, nobody has commented on one very positive development to have come out of this whole situation - this is the first time I can remember having a savage release date confirmed (if only with a nod and a wink) further than 2-4 weeks in advance. We've only ever had educated guesses before. Having previously worked in a job where booking time off with only a few weeks' notice wasn't guaranteed, I really hope this continues.

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Originally Posted by Sotaris

That just boils down to your own priorities.
Did they say a date for the release?

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It's always a month after launch. Normal tier is 2 weeks after launch, savage is 2 weeks after that.

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Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

Uhh what difference does that make?

Week 1 clears are a team effort. Some people have teams that clear everything week 1, some people do not. That doesn't mean people who clear in subsequent weeks aren't raiding week 1, or day 1. They are, they simply don't clear everything in the first week.

So it literally doesn't matter.

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Because it's ironic that a bunch of people are debating the merits, concerns, arguing for or against the relevance and importance of week 1 clears when none of them have ever engaged in it before. It's like watching a bunch of toddlers talk about quantum mechanics.

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Originally Posted by Kadhe

<----- My name and world are right there, brother man.

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Oops, missed you.

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Originally Posted by Drakonic

Because it's ironic that a bunch of people are debating the merits, concerns, arguing for or against the relevance and importance of week 1 clears when none of them have ever engaged in it before. It's like watching a bunch of toddlers talk about quantum mechanics.

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What about the people who want to experience the raids one a time when everyone is clueless.
Who want to clear as far as possible without watching a guide?
People who just use the PF to raid and clear the raids?

These players can only do that in week 1.
Because later you will always have someone who has seen a guide.
And the quality of the PF group's decrease by a lot when you not clear at least 3 fights in the first week.

You don't need to be a HC raider to have a reason to raid in week 1.

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Originally Posted by Curisu

What about the people who want to experience the raids one a time when everyone is clueless.
Who want to clear as far as possible without watching a guide?
People who just use the PF to raid and clear the raids?

These players can only do that in week 1.
Because later you will always have someone who has seen a guide.
And the quality of the PF group's decrease by a lot when you not clear at least 3 fights in the first week.

You don't need to be a HC raider to have a reason to raid in week 1.

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Ok, let me be generous and say that week 2 raiders have a say too. That only expands the number of people relevant to the conversation by like 1 or 2 lol. And if you clear beyond week 2 then it's pretty much irrelevant to you as you probably wouldn't actually have progressed far enough in week 1 to hit the 4th floor enrage gate.

I'm not for or against this though, it's just hilarious that it's mostly people that have nothing to do with the topic talking about it. Some don't even have Savage clears.

I support either releasing savage one week early or two weeks later (it's unlikely they would release it on New Years, since that's a very important holiday in Japan. I respect that but i hope christmas can get the same consideration).

Honestly arguments that boil down to "you shouldnt experience the game this way/you don't deserve to experience the game this way" are weak points on top of being unempathetic. Maybe be more understanding and open minded, when people over and over tell you that yes, week 1 prog is a unique experience for concrete reasons and not just the most hardcore competitions. It's just not realistic to blind prog after week 1 : strats are posted everywhere, keeping 8 people blind even week 2 is so rare, it's extremely unreliable. Strats knowledge is not something you can lose, and gear ramps difficulty down very fast for players looking for a challenge. This game's challenging content is so much about information, entirely clearable with tells and visual clues available inside duty, and being spoiled of the mechanics makes it a different game.

"You dont have a week 1 prog kill so your opinion isnt valid" is a weird point to make as well, people might be looking forward to doing their first week 1 attempt, and doesnt that dismiss almost everyone in this thread?

It goes without saying that a lot of players in ffxiv don't live with their family. And if they do, they dont want to have to chose between their favorite hobby and family time. It's a small inconvenience to delay savage by a few days after waiting a year between two tiers, but a huge relief for a lot of players. It takes 1 player out of 8 needing to take a vacation around the most celebrated holiday in the western hemisphere to break up and reform a group for the only week where the content is reliably proggable truely blind. I don't believe it's an unfair feedback to make.

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Originally Posted by OneTrueMiqote

With the typical timeline...

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I don't think we're on a typical timeline so I would not worry too much.

ill never put petty pixel content into priority over family wether i can see them whenever or not.
its just not right /sip

Amazing the amount of people completely missing the point.