How many times...

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

Yes, it signifies less knowledge about the game overall because you've experienced less content and situations. You couldn't claim to know how high end healing works if you've never played healer at a high level in endgame.



The amount of good advice and help you've received on these forums and outright ignored because "Noct is best" and your examples from tiny sample sizes in dungeons is baffling. If people were here to spew insults they wouldn't waste their time explaining things in detail.



That's because he's correct. If a RDM or SMN in your group was also griefing, why would that make it ok for you to grief? That's the definition of petty and only harms the rest of the group who don't deserve the slower run.
Healbots get comms because many players who don't main a healer don't know when the next raidwide will happen and feel safer when they have a full health bar. If you know the next raidwide is 25 seconds away and let HoT's handle it, players don't feel safe even though you're contributing far more to the team. A dps healer who uses no GCD heals can both out-dps and out-heal a healbot simultaneously (which happens frequently) and often receive no comms. Healing well is a thankless job.

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Overall your ignorance and ofc wanna defend your buddy do not surprise me to the fact you ofc no matter what I say your gonna make a reason to make it look bad. Any job can grief and sometimes its not out of spite but proper reason, Red tanks for example who wanna pull ahead of the tank and healer and tell them what to do like what these 2 machinist was pulling on ahead of the tank and wanna report tank claiming he is griefing and apparently they both was in a party(me the healer) ofc yes amma be on the tank side and that is not griefing because even before the tank I (healer)asked please stop pulling ahead of the tank and let them decide if they want to go slow or fast. I res co healers who help res/heal/buff shield/and regen team if they die because they are balancing themselves . DPS green bots deserves no res because if you pick up a dps green bot and they do not heal themselves and still begins to dps while other people are dead too, what is the point of resing them? That should not be nothing call griefing vs if a co healer was doing balance of everything and I didnt res em that is more of saying grief get it? Since you wanna bring up old stuff be petty yourself I will say it again like 500 times. I do not care about regens they may mathematically be better because I prefer barrier healing thank you. So I like noct, why does it bother you so much? why not say to se then get rid of sch too make all the healers be pure healers then?

Also the fact you said I got help or help(more than of insults and belittle for liking noct and not be a green dps bot who does everything in balance of heal/buff/res/regen/shield and dps lol. Did I ask you or anyone(your buddies on your side for your so called help/advise(which is insults and not advise/help). Did I made a post asking why are regens better than shields or something? Only post I ever ask for help was det vs piety sps vs dh on healer(Is help and advise that I appreciated from those people). Oh so nice that your so pro on one game woopty do, I cleared e1 and e5 and e6 so I have experience in it but choose at the end of the day, there are other ways to enjoy 14 other than just EX and Savage. I have clears on all hw and sb exes those had the best content in my eyes. Shadowbringers is like my less fav expansion, its decent but didnt appeal to me as much. if an expansion contains thing not too appealing to someone it makes sense people got a right to not do much in that expansion so it does not signify about expertise base on 1 expansion lmao

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Originally Posted by IceBlueNinja

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You seem to be getting a bit heated, I’d recommended taking a break from the forums for a day. Try doing something you enjoy that relaxes you, there’s really no need to get so worked up over some forums posts.

This place can be stressful at times, I get that. This is just advice I tend to follow myself. I remember the last time I got stressed in the forums was from self proclaimed trolls who were absolutely giddy at the fact that SCH got butchered in 5.0.

Instead of engaging with someone that’s stressing you out, it might be best to just not reply and move on with your life.

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Originally Posted by Ftail

You seem to be getting a bit heated, I’d recommended taking a break from the forums for a day. Try doing something you enjoy that relaxes you, there’s really no need to get so worked up over some forums posts.

This place can be stressful at times, I get that. This is just advice I tend to follow myself. I remember the last time I got stressed in the forums was from self proclaimed trolls who were absolutely giddy at the fact that SCH got butchered in 5.0.

Instead of engaging with someone that’s stressing you out, it might be best to just not reply and move on with your life.

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Agreed amma just enjoy playing the game I see fit, not worth my time with these trolls, let em say/think or assume what they want. Thanks and Happy gaming friend I will take your advice and hope to see ones like you in dc that just respect people play style. I do hope for you and all sch mains, sch gets a great rework too because I know the class has the potential to be awesome but SE butcher it bad like bard/darkknight/ast cards totally agree, Suppose its cause these 4 jobs was heavily used in sb.

I really can't stop myself from coming back to this trainwreck of a post over and over again to see it continue to burn.

healers are punished by the developers when they do their job well (your reward for the party being fully healed and not needing to heal a bit is! ...soulcrushing boredom!), and hated by other players if they do their job poorly (or rather "poorly", if a player doesn't want to admit their own failings in observing mechanics).

There's no real winning, and it's been shown time after time after liveletter after liveletter that healer input is wholesale ignored in lieu of people's complaints about "THEIR" healers, so any action that isnt them quietly standing around being an hp vendor for the REAL players will be stripped away until that is literally the only thing they can do at all, shown by WHM losing what few offensive tools it had, SCH losing it's core downtime activity (DoT management with GCDs, specifically enabled by their massive amount of OGCD heals to not sacrifice their hp vendor duties while actually contributing), and AST recieving a TRIPLE LOBOTOMY (lost it's cards and all associated lore/their class quests are ENTIRELY lies now, lost it's time-related magics and all associated lore/quests entirely lies now, and now lost half their healing kit in diurnal sect and all associated--you get the point).

The trend of healer kit simplification is never going to end as long as FFXIV continues their unique system where healers are almost superfluous. When the majority of damage is either negligible or one-hit kills, mitigation is king. People don't need heals if they are at 90% HP or dead. Rez is utility, not heals.

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Originally Posted by NYCLouisGamer

The trend of healer kit simplification is never going to end as long as FFXIV continues their unique system where healers are almost superfluous. When the majority of damage is either negligible or one-hit kills, mitigation is king. People don't need heals if they are at 90% HP or dead. Rez is utility, not heals.

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That's actually something I've never put into words that mitigation is king. I've noticed that tanks are the most overpowered role in the game. For harder content, you bring DPS because tanks hit enrage, and then you bring healers because the DPS are squish and can't mitigate good. But I've done 4 tank expert roulettes, and there are videos of 8 tank diamond weapon and 8 tank UCOB. It's really wild.

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Originally Posted by Irenia

That's actually something I've never put into words that mitigation is king. I've noticed that tanks are the most overpowered role in the game. For harder content, you bring DPS because tanks hit enrage, and then you bring healers because the DPS are squish and can't mitigate good. But I've done 4 tank expert roulettes, and there are videos of 8 tank diamond weapon and 8 tank UCOB. It's really wild.

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I saw that video lol it was quite something I should probably do the tank life, glad I lvled pld/gunbreaker just incase. Wonder if it be possible in savage things too XD. Pld is so op.

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Originally Posted by NobleWinter

I really can't stop myself from coming back to this trainwreck of a post over and over again to see it continue to burn.

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Great. You had to say something. Some of the posts in here were incredibly hard to read and I was so glad that it was over.... -sighs while grabbing popcorn-

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Originally Posted by Irenia

That's actually something I've never put into words that mitigation is king. I've noticed that tanks are the most overpowered role in the game. For harder content, you bring DPS because tanks hit enrage, and then you bring healers because the DPS are squish and can't mitigate good. But I've done 4 tank expert roulettes, and there are videos of 8 tank diamond weapon and 8 tank UCOB. It's really wild.

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It depends on your definition of "overpowered", but I would completely disagree with the premise.

The only real reason that a full group of healers may have trouble doing things like this is because they specifically designed a reused mechanism that helps to "ensure" that you have a tank, tank busters. If it weren't for tank busters, you'd likely see groups be 1 healer and 3 DPS which flies in the face of tanks being "overpowered". The real problem is that the mechanism that pushes for inclusion of DPS (enrage timers) are ultimately tuned too low. The reason why you see full tank clears is a combination of a reasonable amount of self sustain on top of mitigation, but more importantly skills that allow for tanks to swap aggro.

You're not seeing these clears because "tanks are overpowered", you're seeing them because they have tools that allow them to control the enemies and work together well as a team. The power is in the synergy rather than the role/jobs itself. But, better tuned enrage timers would create a DPS requirement which would preclude these tools from being used to get around the intended group make up in content.

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Originally Posted by LeonKeyh

Great. You had to say something. Some of the posts in here were incredibly hard to read and I was so glad that it was over.... -sighs while grabbing popcorn-



It depends on your definition of "overpowered", but I would completely disagree with the premise.

The only real reason that a full group of healers may have trouble doing things like this is because they specifically designed a reused mechanism that helps to "ensure" that you have a tank, tank busters. If it weren't for tank busters, you'd likely see groups be 1 healer and 3 DPS which flies in the face of tanks being "overpowered". The real problem is that the mechanism that pushes for inclusion of DPS (enrage timers) are ultimately tuned too low. The reason why you see full tank clears is a combination of a reasonable amount of self sustain on top of mitigation, but more importantly skills that allow for tanks to swap aggro.

You're not seeing these clears because "tanks are overpowered", you're seeing them because they have tools that allow them to control the enemies and work together well as a team. The power is in the synergy rather than the role/jobs itself. But, better tuned enrage timers would create a DPS requirement which would preclude these tools from being used to get around the intended group make up in content.

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Yeah, you've got it. I just think it's interesting that all roles can DPS to a certain extent, can heal to a certain extent. But when it comes to tanking no DPS or healer can handle even a single tankbuster. Well, except for BLU, but it can only do that because it has the freedom to not limit itself to certain types of skills.

As for enrages, it can't be too tight - this may mean content designed for an average to goo party can be done with only great tanks. You could also make tank and healer dps trash tier, but that would bring to the forefront that these are tests to pass, not fights to overcome.

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Originally Posted by Irenia

That's actually something I've never put into words that mitigation is king. I've noticed that tanks are the most overpowered role in the game. For harder content, you bring DPS because tanks hit enrage, and then you bring healers because the DPS are squish and can't mitigate good. But I've done 4 tank expert roulettes, and there are videos of 8 tank diamond weapon and 8 tank UCOB. It's really wild.

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One thing that's always bothered me is if a tank doesn't use a cooldown for a tank buster, the healer, I used to play SCH in savage raiding is the person to blame if the tank dies. I had static members upset at me in discord saying, "You never cast Aldo before tank busters happen, do your job correctly".

The tank was like, "Sorry, I forgot to use my cooldown for that tank buster." The complaints against me stopped, but I never got a single apology. This was in a savage static for Stormblood, I gave up savage raiding because of the butchering of my class in ShB.

Man, I've been farming Antitower for bitter memories today and I've had 2 parties yell at me for "not healing enough" despite literally no one dying. Each party stating "healers only heal"

You don't need to be 100% hp every single second. If you're not dead, then fuck you. Every party member is a dps. If you aren't about to die, fuck you, I'm casting holy.

Give me healers that make me stay at 10% HP but do very good dps over heal bots that slow down the run any day of the week

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Originally Posted by RocciaSolida

Give me healers that make me stay at 10% HP but do very good dps over heal bots that slow down the run any day of the week

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Speaking from experience (have done runs keeping groupmates topped off, or letting their health slip down low before healing), I think most would disagree with you... when I've done DPS comparable to DPS classes while letting their health dip low, vs. keeping their health above 50% at the expense of competing with their DPS, I've invariably been rewarded more for focusing on their health -- so they can focus on damage output. Personally I believe most doing DPS jobs would prefer their healers to prioritize group health over personal DPS.

If I have a healer that keeps my health low and doesn't lee die while dpsing, they'll get my comm any day. When I get cure II spammed when I get auto attacked, if when I get cure II spammed after a weak tank buster as a warrior (who has hella self sustain) I wanna offer advice

But people are horrid at taking advice.

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Originally Posted by iVolke

Man, I've been farming Antitower for bitter memories today and I've had 2 parties yell at me for "not healing enough" despite literally no one dying. Each party stating "healers only heal"

You don't need to be 100% hp every single second. If you're not dead, then fuck you. Every party member is a dps. If you aren't about to die, fuck you, I'm casting holy.

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Thank you! I want to know where this idea comes from that demands that all non-healer party members be at 100% HP at all times. It is almost like party members get resentful if they are forced to pop a self-heal for any reason. Heaven forbid their HP goes down to 50%. Then it is time to pull out the fainting couch.

Non-healers also consider their defensive cooldowns to be optional. Pro-tip: They aren't.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

I have never EVER seen this in my 8 years of playing this game. Maybe there was one annoying player who did this once but that is not representative of a group of players.

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I have, in Eden's Verse: Fulmination, they both never healed at all other than spamming their aflatus aoe to get their red lilies. I ran out of CDs around 20% of the boss' HP and died.

They were the absolute worst.

Yesterday I had a Prae run where I ended up dying to Ultima Weapon's first phase because one healer (WHM) was AFK washing dishes and the other (SCH) was only spamming Ruin 2. The SCH had forgotten to summon Eos and wasn't paying attention to my health so I spent the entirety of the phase transition cutscene dead. The SCH was also using JP for the cutscenes and was pulling the boss before everyone else could act.

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Originally Posted by Side-Eye

Speaking from experience (have done runs keeping groupmates topped off, or letting their health slip down low before healing), I think most would disagree with you... when I've done DPS comparable to DPS classes while letting their health dip low, vs. keeping their health above 50% at the expense of competing with their DPS, I've invariably been rewarded more for focusing on their health -- so they can focus on damage output. Personally I believe most doing DPS jobs would prefer their healers to prioritize group health over personal DPS.

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This is so true, me who balance and do heal buff + dps still be outbeating the co healer dps bots, gear plays a small part but I seen where I still out dps better geared co healer green dps bots all the while keeping party top up or even beat a normal dps simply cause they learning the job and dont know its kit yet. Seen often many dps or tank lately who calls out on the dps green bot and I just be enjoying the show. Though rarely you do get them dps, tanks who have the nerves to wanna call out the healer about dpsing and this was my days when I began learning about healers and what not till I finally understood based on E1S why, but again that was in old days before shadow bringers, I balance of heal/buff/dps/res not just over heal or over dps. Also yes if sch/noct ast is pre actively shielding the team and whm/dirunal ast does a medica 2 aspect helios too (or whm can aslyum) to me you get more up time for dpsing vs keeping your team at 20% or below then having to waste a turn or two to be trying to repair damage where as actively the barrier person pops a shield before income damage then the regen one regens. Hmm I wonder why I dont simply just play a DPS if I want to do the biggest damage than everyone and not heal till 10%(being sarcastic on this cause I do everything but you know to the dps green bots ) Would love the day this question get answered. Lets team up when DC comes I will make sure your nice and top off so you dont have to use a vercure or clemency on yourself which is why you have the poor plds who have very low trust on healers and even clem in trash pulls .

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

Yesterday I had a Prae run where I ended up dying to Ultima Weapon's first phase because one healer (WHM) was AFK washing dishes and the other (SCH) was only spamming Ruin 2. The SCH had forgotten to summon Eos and wasn't paying attention to my health so I spent the entirety of the phase transition cutscene dead. The SCH was also using JP for the cutscenes and was pulling the boss before everyone else could act.

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LOL! Ok, now THIS sounds like fun. :p Maybe not during, but it left you with an awesome story afterwards!

Also, that SCH who didn't summon EOS is officially a worse healer than me. I am better than I realized!

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Originally Posted by NYCLouisGamer

LOL! Ok, now THIS sounds like fun. :p Maybe not during, but it left you with an awesome story afterwards!

Also, that SCH who didn't summon EOS is officially a worse healer than me. I am better than I realized!

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Or the ast who forget to stance or pick the one your already in lmao.